Can we emulate 64 bits?

Gary Stevens wrote:
I have with 1 GB but I think, first, I need a technician to disassemble
and second, maybe there is memory sticks for that model.

When a computer is really flat, there is no place to hide a DIMM.

Instead, the memory chips are soldered to the motherboard itself
and cannot be upgraded.

Intel is partly to blame. One modern Intel processor has a 32 bit
bus (half the normal width) and has a 1GB max memory configuration.
It will not address more than that (soldering new chips will not help).

Processors also exist with single channel 64 bit wide memory interfaces,
and dual channel 64 bit (each) wide memory interfaces. Intel charges more
and more for the product, as those capabilities go up. This prevents
tablet computers from undercutting the lucrative laptop market.

AMD processors tend to have more uniform specs and capabilities.
While Intel likes to dream up "restrictions" to make your
life miserable.

*******

In this example, the four chips in the yellow square, are the DRAM chips.

https://d3nevzfk7ii3be.cloudfront.ne...dsLNwXTAb.huge

( https://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/Micr...Teardown/11275 )

And the single chip inside the orange square, is a 32GB Flash chip
which stores the OS.

And I provide that picture so you can see how they make the tablet
so flat and thin. And by not making the PCB full width, they can
leave room for battery packs and the like.

Paul

On Wed, 9 Sep 2015 19:28:50 +0100, "Gary Stevens"
wrote:

Can we upgrade 32 bits tablet to 64 bits if tablet has atom processor and
came with windows 32 bits. I've heard Windows 64 bits is much faster than 32
bits but tablet has just 1 GB shared memory. I was thinking to put sdcard to
increase memory and emulate W64 when upgrading to Windows 10 but tablet has
no DVD. What should I do?

Even if your computer is capable of running a 64-bit OS, having only
1Gb of memory negates any advantages. You're going to need AT LEAST
4Gb of memory to get any benefit. The main advantage of a 64-bit OS
in my experience is its ability to address more than about 3Gb (and
change) of memory.

--
//Steve//

Didn't know dimm's were soldered so I'm giving up Windows 10 upgrade. I'll
be testing it till October then who knows what will happen? It's a huge
budget, not just the system upgrade. Donating the machine to church maybe is
after all a good decision.

"Paul" escreveu na mensagem ...

Gary Stevens wrote:
I have with 1 GB but I think, first, I need a technician to disassemble
and second, maybe there is memory sticks for that model.

When a computer is really flat, there is no place to hide a DIMM.

Instead, the memory chips are soldered to the motherboard itself
and cannot be upgraded.

Intel is partly to blame. One modern Intel processor has a 32 bit
bus (half the normal width) and has a 1GB max memory configuration.
It will not address more than that (soldering new chips will not help).

Processors also exist with single channel 64 bit wide memory interfaces,
and dual channel 64 bit (each) wide memory interfaces. Intel charges more
and more for the product, as those capabilities go up. This prevents
tablet computers from undercutting the lucrative laptop market.

AMD processors tend to have more uniform specs and capabilities.
While Intel likes to dream up "restrictions" to make your
life miserable.

*******

In this example, the four chips in the yellow square, are the DRAM chips.

https://d3nevzfk7ii3be.cloudfront.ne...dsLNwXTAb.huge

( https://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/Micr...Teardown/11275 )

And the single chip inside the orange square, is a 32GB Flash chip
which stores the OS.

And I provide that picture so you can see how they make the tablet
so flat and thin. And by not making the PCB full width, they can
leave room for battery packs and the like.

Paul

Gary Stevens wrote:
Didn't know dimm's were soldered so I'm giving up Windows 10 upgrade.
I'll be testing it till October then who knows what will happen? It's a
huge budget, not just the system upgrade. Donating the machine to church
maybe is after all a good decision.


Windows 10 can run with 1GB of RAM. It just doesn't
run all that well. The minimum RAM for the OS is 350MB
or so. Leaving about 650MB for programs to run. That
leaves very little room to run a copy of Firefox,
as even a single tab opened to CNN news page or
Yahoo news page, could demand 1GB of RAM alone.

You can certainly test Win10 on a 1GB RAM machine,
just don't expect everything you do to go fast.

It would be about the same as running WinXP with
only 256MB of RAM plugged in. The OS boots, and
that's about it.

Paul

On Wed, 09 Sep 2015 20:52:11 -0400, Paul wrote:

You can certainly test Win10 on a 1GB RAM machine,
just don't expect everything you do to go fast.

It would be about the same as running WinXP with
only 256MB of RAM plugged in. The OS boots, and
that's about it.

That pretty much describes it. I installed a 32-bit preview version
on a 1Gb system and it really crept along. I could do a little web
browsing and run some of the universal apps that were available at the
time. I was able to =install= the preview of Office 2016 but it spent
so much time hammering away at virtual memory when I tried to =run=
any of it that I just gave up trying. It was an old machine I was
just fiddling around with in some spare time, certainly nothing worth
the expense of upgrading the memory to something remotely useful, so
it's back in the junk pile.

--
//Steve//

On Wed, 09 Sep 2015 20:52:11 -0400, Paul wrote:

Gary Stevens wrote:
Didn't know dimm's were soldered so I'm giving up Windows 10 upgrade.
I'll be testing it till October then who knows what will happen? It's a
huge budget, not just the system upgrade. Donating the machine to
church maybe is after all a good decision.


Windows 10 can run with 1GB of RAM. It just doesn't run all that well.
The minimum RAM for the OS is 350MB or so. Leaving about 650MB for
programs to run. That leaves very little room to run a copy of Firefox,
as even a single tab opened to CNN news page or Yahoo news page, could
demand 1GB of RAM alone.

You can certainly test Win10 on a 1GB RAM machine, just don't expect
everything you do to go fast.

It would be about the same as running WinXP with only 256MB of RAM
plugged in. The OS boots, and that's about it.


WinXP + 256MB, pah, that's luxury that is! :-)

Just over a decade ago, I had many a customer bring their cheapskate E-
Machines PC to me to try and put some life back into them. I think most
had winXP SP2 with a few that had even managed to upgrade to the SP3
level.

These boxes had a brag sticker on them which proudly proclaimed "Windows
XP and 128MB RAM". It was a label that I was firmly convinced was
intended to filter 'Troublesome' customers from buying this particular
'pup' so as to reduce the load on their customer support staff.

I suppose what made such a combination barely adequate at all was that
they'd originally been sold with the RTM version of XP pre-installed.
However (and get this!), the amount of system ram actually available out
of the 128MB dimm had been reduced to a mere 96MB on account the BIOS
default allocation of RAM to the built in graphics adapter was a
pointless 32MB!

Quite obviously, by the time the second or third service pack had been
inflicted, the usual slow down by increments had partly inured the owners
to having to take a coffee break between switch on and the machine
becoming barely responsive enough to open an email client or web browser.
Even so, there did eventually come a point where enough was enough
(usually ten minutes or so booting time), hence the custom from these
poor unfortunates.

In a lot of cases, a large part of the problem was due to crap/mal/adware
which I duly cleaned up, after limiting the on-board graphics to a more
useful 8MB to raise the effective ram to 120MB. Most of these customers
were a little cash strapped so were grateful to avoid shelling out on a
ram upgrade on top of my time charges for considerably pepping up their
pet E-Machines PC.

Whilst the machines still seemed very slow to me, the relative
performance boost was a sufficient improvement as far as my customers
were concerned and few felt the advised ram upgrade could be justified.

Oh, how things have changed this past decade or so! Now we see 8GB RAM
as the current 'Entry Level' for desktop PCs. The advances in hardware
have at last outpaced Microsoft's attempts at playing their part in the
Wintel cartel's efforts to try and obsolete desktop PCs in their ongoing
efforts at pushing sales of shiny new kit.

With the advent of decent sized, economically priced SSDs, Microsoft's
certain performance killer, the default pagefile settings have been
effectively neutered by the almost complete lack of 'seek time' induced
performance loss from the file fragmentation amplification effect of the
default pagefile dynamic sizing algorithm on the rest of the files stored
on the SSD. Talk about 'unintended consequences'! :-)

--
Johnny B Good

On Thu, 10 Sep 2015 02:07:59 GMT, Johnny B Good
wrote:

... E-Machines ...

I think I could have gone the rest of my life without hearing that
outfit's name again...!

--
//Steve//

On 09/09/2015 2:28 PM, Gary Stevens wrote:
Can we upgrade 32 bits tablet to 64 bits if tablet has atom processor
and came with windows 32 bits. I've heard Windows 64 bits is much faster
than 32 bits but tablet has just 1 GB shared memory. I was thinking to
put sdcard to increase memory and emulate W64 when upgrading to Windows
10 but tablet has no DVD. What should I do?

The Atom processor is actually already a 64-bit processor. However, just
because something is possible to do, doesn't actually mean it's a good
idea to do it. They installed a 32-bit OS on that machine, rather than
64-bit, for a reason. That reason is this machine doesn't really have
enough memory to run 64-bit. Microsoft recommends a minimum of 2GB of
RAM to run 64-bit -- Microsoft is being overly optimistic about that,
real-world testing suggests 4GB is the bare minimum needed, and really
you need 8GB+ to achieve comfortable results on 64-bit.

64-bit OS's can be faster than 32-bit, but that only works if there is a
lot of RAM available. 32-bit OS's top out at 4GB of RAM, whereas 64-bit
OS's are just getting started with 4GB of RAM. With only 1GB of RAM, the
32-bit OS is the best choice for you.

Yousuf Khan

Thanks. Maybe I'll decide 32 bits.

"Yousuf Khan" escreveu na mensagem
...

On 09/09/2015 2:28 PM, Gary Stevens wrote:
Can we upgrade 32 bits tablet to 64 bits if tablet has atom processor
and came with windows 32 bits. I've heard Windows 64 bits is much faster
than 32 bits but tablet has just 1 GB shared memory. I was thinking to
put sdcard to increase memory and emulate W64 when upgrading to Windows
10 but tablet has no DVD. What should I do?

The Atom processor is actually already a 64-bit processor. However, just
because something is possible to do, doesn't actually mean it's a good
idea to do it. They installed a 32-bit OS on that machine, rather than
64-bit, for a reason. That reason is this machine doesn't really have
enough memory to run 64-bit. Microsoft recommends a minimum of 2GB of
RAM to run 64-bit -- Microsoft is being overly optimistic about that,
real-world testing suggests 4GB is the bare minimum needed, and really
you need 8GB+ to achieve comfortable results on 64-bit.

64-bit OS's can be faster than 32-bit, but that only works if there is a
lot of RAM available. 32-bit OS's top out at 4GB of RAM, whereas 64-bit
OS's are just getting started with 4GB of RAM. With only 1GB of RAM, the
32-bit OS is the best choice for you.

Yousuf Khan

On 09/09/2015 4:14 PM, Rene Lamontagne wrote:
On 9/9/2015 3:03 PM, Ken Blake, MVP wrote:
*If* your table supports 64-bit Windows, you can install it. But you
have to do a clean installation, not an upgrade.


Yes Ken Blake is correct, you need to buy a License and do a clean
install by external DVD drive or USB stick with a OTG cable to your
Micro USB port.

No, you don't need to buy a new license. The 32-bit and 64-bit versions
of Windows use the exact same license, as long as the Windows option
level is exactly the same too. So for example 32-bit & 64-bit Windows 10
Home are exactly the same license, similarly 32-bit and 64-bit Windows
Pro are the same license. If you want to upgrade between Home and Pro,
then you need a new license.

Yousuf Khan

On 09/09/2015 3:11 PM, Gary Stevens wrote:
But I need Windows 10 with 64 bits

Why do you say that?

Yousuf Khan

On Thu, 10 Sep 2015 03:23:30 -0400, Yousuf Khan
wrote:


No, you don't need to buy a new license. The 32-bit and 64-bit versions
of Windows use the exact same license, as long as the Windows option
level is exactly the same too. So for example 32-bit & 64-bit Windows 10
Home are exactly the same license, similarly 32-bit and 64-bit Windows
Pro are the same license.


Yes, but let me add to that: it's important to realize what many
people don't--even though you get both a 32-bit DVD and a 64-bit DVD,
it's only *one* license, not two. You can install either one, but not
both.

On 9/10/2015 12:47 AM, Jim k wrote:
Thanks. Maybe I'll decide 32 bits.

"Yousuf Khan" escreveu na mensagem
...

On 09/09/2015 2:28 PM, Gary Stevens wrote:
Can we upgrade 32 bits tablet to 64 bits if tablet has atom processor
and came with windows 32 bits. I've heard Windows 64 bits is much faster
than 32 bits but tablet has just 1 GB shared memory. I was thinking to
put sdcard to increase memory and emulate W64 when upgrading to Windows
10 but tablet has no DVD. What should I do?

The Atom processor is actually already a 64-bit processor. However, just
because something is possible to do, doesn't actually mean it's a good
idea to do it. They installed a 32-bit OS on that machine, rather than
64-bit, for a reason. That reason is this machine doesn't really have
enough memory to run 64-bit. Microsoft recommends a minimum of 2GB of
RAM to run 64-bit -- Microsoft is being overly optimistic about that,
real-world testing suggests 4GB is the bare minimum needed, and really
you need 8GB+ to achieve comfortable results on 64-bit.

64-bit OS's can be faster than 32-bit, but that only works if there is a
lot of RAM available. 32-bit OS's top out at 4GB of RAM, whereas 64-bit
OS's are just getting started with 4GB of RAM. With only 1GB of RAM, the
32-bit OS is the best choice for you.

Yousuf Khan


Further to my post of 9/9/2015 2:46 I emailed Support at Digital2 and
asked them if my D2-1014 tablet was capable of running windows 10 and
was this a good Idea.

They replied that this was not advisable due to machine specific driver
problems and that unlike a regular System the process was NOT reversible.
Obviously it shall remain with Win 8.1, I am sure glad I checked before
jumping.

Regards, Rene

On 2015-09-10 2:04 PM, Rene Lamontagne wrote:
On 9/10/2015 12:47 AM, Jim k wrote:
Thanks. Maybe I'll decide 32 bits.

"Yousuf Khan" escreveu na mensagem
...

On 09/09/2015 2:28 PM, Gary Stevens wrote:
Can we upgrade 32 bits tablet to 64 bits if tablet has atom processor
and came with windows 32 bits. I've heard Windows 64 bits is much faster
than 32 bits but tablet has just 1 GB shared memory. I was thinking to
put sdcard to increase memory and emulate W64 when upgrading to Windows
10 but tablet has no DVD. What should I do?

The Atom processor is actually already a 64-bit processor. However, just
because something is possible to do, doesn't actually mean it's a good
idea to do it. They installed a 32-bit OS on that machine, rather than
64-bit, for a reason. That reason is this machine doesn't really have
enough memory to run 64-bit. Microsoft recommends a minimum of 2GB of
RAM to run 64-bit -- Microsoft is being overly optimistic about that,
real-world testing suggests 4GB is the bare minimum needed, and really
you need 8GB+ to achieve comfortable results on 64-bit.

64-bit OS's can be faster than 32-bit, but that only works if there is a
lot of RAM available. 32-bit OS's top out at 4GB of RAM, whereas 64-bit
OS's are just getting started with 4GB of RAM. With only 1GB of RAM, the
32-bit OS is the best choice for you.

Yousuf Khan


Further to my post of 9/9/2015 2:46 I emailed Support at Digital2 and
asked them if my D2-1014 tablet was capable of running windows 10 and
was this a good Idea.

They replied that this was not advisable due to machine specific driver
problems and that unlike a regular System the process was NOT reversible.
Obviously it shall remain with Win 8.1, I am sure glad I checked before
jumping.

Apparently, Windows 8.1 has a much better tablet interface than Windows
10 has anyway so the upgrade wouldn't have been advisable for that
reason alone. No matter how many people hated Windows 8.1, they couldn't
deny that it was an excellent tablet experience. On my own tablet, I
loved it as did my wife and she is incredibly critical of technology and
tolerates little.

--
A.M

On 09/09/2015 06:46 PM, Steve Silverwood [KB6OJS] wrote:

[snip]

Even if your computer is capable of running a 64-bit OS, having only
1Gb of memory negates any advantages. You're going to need AT LEAST
4Gb of memory to get any benefit. The main advantage of a 64-bit OS
in my experience is its ability to address more than about 3Gb (and
change) of memory.


Interestingly, most processors (starting with the Pentium Pro) have had
the ability to address at least 64GB RAM (36-bit physical address) while
in 32-bit mode. It's just that Windows won't let you use that. The 3GB
limit is artificial. I don't know about OS X, but I have used 32-bit
Linux and it recognized the 16GB in that machine.

--
106 days until the winter celebration (Friday December 25, 2015 12:00:00
AM for 1 day).

"When people learn no tools of judgment and merely follow their hopes,
the seeds of political manipulation are sown." -- Stephen Jay Gould