USB device shuts down PC

"Paul" wrote in message
...
Ian D wrote:
"Leythos" wrote in message
...
In article ,
says...
Nice explanation of the +5VSB, but it doesn't address
the OP's symptoms. Here's my interpretation of what
he said.

- Plug any USB device, including self powered devices,
(printer), into any USB port and the PC shuts down immediately.

- Plug a USB device into a USB extension cable connected
to any USB port on the PC and it works normally.

- Plug a USB device into a PCI USB card and the PC
shuts down immediately.

I was thinking of a software/driver issue, but the fact that it
works with a USB extension cable negates that.

The length of the extension cable could also indicate that it's added
resistance is decreasing the load.

--
- Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum.
- Calling an illegal alien an "undocumented worker" is like calling a
drug dealer an "unlicensed pharmacist"
(remove 999 for proper email address)

I had thought of cable resistance, and capacitive or inductive
reactance, but that doesn't explain why a shutdown occurs
with the PCI USB card, which is is a separate system from
the motherboard USB controller. Also, a printer only puts a
10 or 15ma load on a USB hub, and it would probably have 6
foot cable.

It would be interesting to see what happens when the USB
extension is plugged in with a USB device already attached.
If it happens then, I'm again thinking of a static discharge
as the cause.

I wonder if the machine is OK, if the printer is plugged in,
before the computer is booted. Does the computer run forever
in that way ? That would suggest more of a transient problem,
if the computer isn't bothered by a steadily present printer.

Paul

I'm wondering if it could be grounding problem. The only
electrical connections that would be common to both the
motherboard USB, ans the PCI USB card are the +5v,
and ground. Through the years in the hardware groups,
I've seen posters with weird problems that were eventually
traced to poor or missing grounding on the electrical supply.

"Paul" wrote in message
...
Ian D wrote:
"Leythos" wrote in message
...
In article ,
says...
Nice explanation of the +5VSB, but it doesn't address
the OP's symptoms. Here's my interpretation of what
he said.

- Plug any USB device, including self powered devices,
(printer), into any USB port and the PC shuts down immediately.

- Plug a USB device into a USB extension cable connected
to any USB port on the PC and it works normally.

- Plug a USB device into a PCI USB card and the PC
shuts down immediately.

I was thinking of a software/driver issue, but the fact that it
works with a USB extension cable negates that.

The length of the extension cable could also indicate that it's added
resistance is decreasing the load.

--
- Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum.
- Calling an illegal alien an "undocumented worker" is like calling a
drug dealer an "unlicensed pharmacist"
(remove 999 for proper email address)

I had thought of cable resistance, and capacitive or inductive
reactance, but that doesn't explain why a shutdown occurs
with the PCI USB card, which is is a separate system from
the motherboard USB controller. Also, a printer only puts a
10 or 15ma load on a USB hub, and it would probably have 6
foot cable.

It would be interesting to see what happens when the USB
extension is plugged in with a USB device already attached.
If it happens then, I'm again thinking of a static discharge
as the cause.

I wonder if the machine is OK, if the printer is plugged in,
before the computer is booted. Does the computer run forever
in that way ? That would suggest more of a transient problem,
if the computer isn't bothered by a steadily present printer.

Paul

I'm wondering if it could be grounding problem. The only
electrical connections that would be common to both the
motherboard USB, ans the PCI USB card are the +5v,
and ground. Through the years in the hardware groups,
I've seen posters with weird problems that were eventually
traced to poor or missing grounding on the electrical supply.

On May 17, 11:00 pm, "Ian D" wrote:
I had thought of cable resistance, and capacitive or inductive
reactance, but that doesn't explain why a shutdown occurs
with the PCI USB card, which is is a separate system from
the motherboard USB controller.

Actually it does. USB extension cords are a violation of the USB
standard. With a longer USB connection, the USB device may not
request high speed mode; therefore will not draw excessive power on
the +5VSB.

Paul explanations are a possible explanation. The recommendation of
replacing the power supply with a 600 watt supply is expected from
those who don't have even basic electrical knowledge.

Of course, a 3.5 digit multimeter measures the purple wire (+5VSB)
voltage, then that and many other possible reasons for failure could
be identified or eliminated immediately. Immediately as in not
wasting time and money shotgunning the power supply.

Excessive load on +5VSB may also result in the same failure if using
a larger supply. Or the computer may still boot even though the +5VSB
load is still excessive for that new supply. The only answer for
Paul’s reasonable explanation – and answer that is explicit and clear
- means measuring +5VSB both when the computer boots and when the USB
device is connected to cause a failure. Those numbers that may not
even tell the OP what has happened can be very informative to those
who learned this stuff.

Only way to solve the problem the first time is to first learn what
the problem really is - without shotgunning. Appreciate what happens
when a USB extension cable is used, why it could explain Paul's
scenario, and why that cable is a violation of the USB standards.

On May 17, 11:00 pm, "Ian D" wrote:
I had thought of cable resistance, and capacitive or inductive
reactance, but that doesn't explain why a shutdown occurs
with the PCI USB card, which is is a separate system from
the motherboard USB controller.

Actually it does. USB extension cords are a violation of the USB
standard. With a longer USB connection, the USB device may not
request high speed mode; therefore will not draw excessive power on
the +5VSB.

Paul explanations are a possible explanation. The recommendation of
replacing the power supply with a 600 watt supply is expected from
those who don't have even basic electrical knowledge.

Of course, a 3.5 digit multimeter measures the purple wire (+5VSB)
voltage, then that and many other possible reasons for failure could
be identified or eliminated immediately. Immediately as in not
wasting time and money shotgunning the power supply.

Excessive load on +5VSB may also result in the same failure if using
a larger supply. Or the computer may still boot even though the +5VSB
load is still excessive for that new supply. The only answer for
Paul’s reasonable explanation – and answer that is explicit and clear
- means measuring +5VSB both when the computer boots and when the USB
device is connected to cause a failure. Those numbers that may not
even tell the OP what has happened can be very informative to those
who learned this stuff.

Only way to solve the problem the first time is to first learn what
the problem really is - without shotgunning. Appreciate what happens
when a USB extension cable is used, why it could explain Paul's
scenario, and why that cable is a violation of the USB standards.

Neil wrote in message
...
Hi,
I have a PC running Windows XP home. I have both front & rear USB ports.
If I plug a printer into any of the USB ports, the PC shuts down with out
warning.
If I plug a USB memory stick into any of the ports, the same thing happens.
I have a USB extension lead, if I plug the extension lead into any USB port
and then plug the memory stick into the extension it works OK.
I have recently installed a PCI USB card, the computer still shuts down
when
devices are plugged in.

Any suggestions?

Thank you.

I recently added a few USB connectors and had the same problem. I assumed
that something was shorting during the insertion, so I changed the
connectors and the problem went away. Seeing as your extension cable works,
you might want to do the same.
bg

Neil wrote in message
...
Hi,
I have a PC running Windows XP home. I have both front & rear USB ports.
If I plug a printer into any of the USB ports, the PC shuts down with out
warning.
If I plug a USB memory stick into any of the ports, the same thing happens.
I have a USB extension lead, if I plug the extension lead into any USB port
and then plug the memory stick into the extension it works OK.
I have recently installed a PCI USB card, the computer still shuts down
when
devices are plugged in.

Any suggestions?

Thank you.

I recently added a few USB connectors and had the same problem. I assumed
that something was shorting during the insertion, so I changed the
connectors and the problem went away. Seeing as your extension cable works,
you might want to do the same.
bg

In article 2f0ce7bb-9495-4bbf-a670-
, says...
On May 17, 11:00 pm, "Ian D" wrote:
I had thought of cable resistance, and capacitive or inductive
reactance, but that doesn't explain why a shutdown occurs
with the PCI USB card, which is is a separate system from
the motherboard USB controller.

Actually it does. USB extension cords are a violation of the USB
standard. With a longer USB connection, the USB device may not
request high speed mode; therefore will not draw excessive power on
the +5VSB.

Paul explanations are a possible explanation. The recommendation of
replacing the power supply with a 600 watt supply is expected from
those who don't have even basic electrical knowledge.


And by the time you follow all of W_TOM's purchase a DVM advice you
could have installed a quality PSU and been up and running. The DVM
won't tell you anything unless you hack apart a cable, breaking it in
the process, since you're not getting power for the USB ports from any
place easy to measure.

--
- Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum.
- Calling an illegal alien an "undocumented worker" is like calling a
drug dealer an "unlicensed pharmacist"
(remove 999 for proper email address)

In article 2f0ce7bb-9495-4bbf-a670-
, says...
On May 17, 11:00 pm, "Ian D" wrote:
I had thought of cable resistance, and capacitive or inductive
reactance, but that doesn't explain why a shutdown occurs
with the PCI USB card, which is is a separate system from
the motherboard USB controller.

Actually it does. USB extension cords are a violation of the USB
standard. With a longer USB connection, the USB device may not
request high speed mode; therefore will not draw excessive power on
the +5VSB.

Paul explanations are a possible explanation. The recommendation of
replacing the power supply with a 600 watt supply is expected from
those who don't have even basic electrical knowledge.


And by the time you follow all of W_TOM's purchase a DVM advice you
could have installed a quality PSU and been up and running. The DVM
won't tell you anything unless you hack apart a cable, breaking it in
the process, since you're not getting power for the USB ports from any
place easy to measure.

--
- Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum.
- Calling an illegal alien an "undocumented worker" is like calling a
drug dealer an "unlicensed pharmacist"
(remove 999 for proper email address)

On May 19, 9:11 am, Leythos wrote:
And by the time you follow all of W_TOM's purchase a DVM advice you
could have installed a quality PSU and been up and running.

Multimeter measurements can be taken five times over. And a power
supply still could not be swapped. Learn basic power supply
concepts. A defective power supply can still boot a computer.
Swapping a supply reports nothing useful (definitive). OP's supply
could have been defective months or even a year ago. And that meter
could have identified a defect even that long ago - in thirty seconds.

Leythos claims the meter says nothing. Leythos does not know how to
use a meter - and does not have the basic electrical knowledge to
understand what those numbers report. Ignore the usual insults from a
naive naysayer.

Thirty seconds with the meter also provide numbers so that the few
who actually know how electricity works will reply - can provide
further assistance. Simply power a meter on 20 VDC range, touch leads
to where wires connect to the motherboard, then read a number. Post
those numbers here. Get a useful reply that can actually define the
problem - without doubt.

Doubt: a defective or insufficient power supply can still boot a
computer.

bg - if connectors caused a short, well, USB functions then report
that short as a "power surge" and disable that USB port. Nothing in a
normal USB port (if provided sufficient voltage) can crash the OS.

Why would that USB device cause a power problem? Paul offers a
plausible reason. If in high speed mode, a USB device draws more
power. Numerous other reasons exist. With insufficient information -
such as voltage numbers - no responsible answer is possible. A
definitive answer happens after important numbers are provided -
especially DC voltage from the purple wire (+5VSB) and from other
important wires such as any one red, orange, and yellow wires.

On May 19, 9:11 am, Leythos wrote:
And by the time you follow all of W_TOM's purchase a DVM advice you
could have installed a quality PSU and been up and running.

Multimeter measurements can be taken five times over. And a power
supply still could not be swapped. Learn basic power supply
concepts. A defective power supply can still boot a computer.
Swapping a supply reports nothing useful (definitive). OP's supply
could have been defective months or even a year ago. And that meter
could have identified a defect even that long ago - in thirty seconds.

Leythos claims the meter says nothing. Leythos does not know how to
use a meter - and does not have the basic electrical knowledge to
understand what those numbers report. Ignore the usual insults from a
naive naysayer.

Thirty seconds with the meter also provide numbers so that the few
who actually know how electricity works will reply - can provide
further assistance. Simply power a meter on 20 VDC range, touch leads
to where wires connect to the motherboard, then read a number. Post
those numbers here. Get a useful reply that can actually define the
problem - without doubt.

Doubt: a defective or insufficient power supply can still boot a
computer.

bg - if connectors caused a short, well, USB functions then report
that short as a "power surge" and disable that USB port. Nothing in a
normal USB port (if provided sufficient voltage) can crash the OS.

Why would that USB device cause a power problem? Paul offers a
plausible reason. If in high speed mode, a USB device draws more
power. Numerous other reasons exist. With insufficient information -
such as voltage numbers - no responsible answer is possible. A
definitive answer happens after important numbers are provided -
especially DC voltage from the purple wire (+5VSB) and from other
important wires such as any one red, orange, and yellow wires.

In article e07c53c2-ca2e-4c96-9b4c-3666d4d000b6
@s21g2000vbb.googlegroups.com, says...
Leythos claims the meter says nothing. Leythos does not know how to
use a meter - and does not have the basic electrical knowledge to
understand what those numbers report. Ignore the usual insults from a
naive naysayer.


Now you see why W_Tom is not respected in these groups - I've not once
said that a multimeter says nothing - in fact, quite the contrary. What
I have said is that in order to test the voltage at the END of the
second cable, you would have to cut into the cable, and that's now good.

If the problem is with the power provided to the card via the
motherboard connection at the PCI slot, a multi-meter is not going to
provide any help at all.

So, the quickest way to determine the reason for THIS problem is to get
a higher wattage PSU, a new one, and see if that resolves your issue.

--
- Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum.
- Calling an illegal alien an "undocumented worker" is like calling a
drug dealer an "unlicensed pharmacist"
(remove 999 for proper email address)

In article e07c53c2-ca2e-4c96-9b4c-3666d4d000b6
@s21g2000vbb.googlegroups.com, says...
Leythos claims the meter says nothing. Leythos does not know how to
use a meter - and does not have the basic electrical knowledge to
understand what those numbers report. Ignore the usual insults from a
naive naysayer.


Now you see why W_Tom is not respected in these groups - I've not once
said that a multimeter says nothing - in fact, quite the contrary. What
I have said is that in order to test the voltage at the END of the
second cable, you would have to cut into the cable, and that's now good.

If the problem is with the power provided to the card via the
motherboard connection at the PCI slot, a multi-meter is not going to
provide any help at all.

So, the quickest way to determine the reason for THIS problem is to get
a higher wattage PSU, a new one, and see if that resolves your issue.

--
- Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum.
- Calling an illegal alien an "undocumented worker" is like calling a
drug dealer an "unlicensed pharmacist"
(remove 999 for proper email address)

"Leythos" wrote in message
...
In article e07c53c2-ca2e-4c96-9b4c-3666d4d000b6
@s21g2000vbb.googlegroups.com, says...
Leythos claims the meter says nothing. Leythos does not know how to
use a meter - and does not have the basic electrical knowledge to
understand what those numbers report. Ignore the usual insults from a
naive naysayer.


Now you see why W_Tom is not respected in these groups - I've not once
said that a multimeter says nothing - in fact, quite the contrary. What
I have said is that in order to test the voltage at the END of the
second cable, you would have to cut into the cable, and that's now good.

If the problem is with the power provided to the card via the
motherboard connection at the PCI slot, a multi-meter is not going to
provide any help at all.

So, the quickest way to determine the reason for THIS problem is to get
a higher wattage PSU, a new one, and see if that resolves your issue.

--
- Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum.
- Calling an illegal alien an "undocumented worker" is like calling a
drug dealer an "unlicensed pharmacist"
(remove 999 for proper email address)

It seems like we're flogging a dead horse here. It's been 3 days
since the original post, and the OP has not responded with any
further information. If the PC shuts down, but could be restarted
with the front panel button without cycling the rear PSU switch,
then the +5v STBY has not tripped off, as it is needed to start the
system. That's the kind of info we're lacking about this problem.

"Leythos" wrote in message
...
In article e07c53c2-ca2e-4c96-9b4c-3666d4d000b6
@s21g2000vbb.googlegroups.com, says...
Leythos claims the meter says nothing. Leythos does not know how to
use a meter - and does not have the basic electrical knowledge to
understand what those numbers report. Ignore the usual insults from a
naive naysayer.


Now you see why W_Tom is not respected in these groups - I've not once
said that a multimeter says nothing - in fact, quite the contrary. What
I have said is that in order to test the voltage at the END of the
second cable, you would have to cut into the cable, and that's now good.

If the problem is with the power provided to the card via the
motherboard connection at the PCI slot, a multi-meter is not going to
provide any help at all.

So, the quickest way to determine the reason for THIS problem is to get
a higher wattage PSU, a new one, and see if that resolves your issue.

--
- Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum.
- Calling an illegal alien an "undocumented worker" is like calling a
drug dealer an "unlicensed pharmacist"
(remove 999 for proper email address)

It seems like we're flogging a dead horse here. It's been 3 days
since the original post, and the OP has not responded with any
further information. If the PC shuts down, but could be restarted
with the front panel button without cycling the rear PSU switch,
then the +5v STBY has not tripped off, as it is needed to start the
system. That's the kind of info we're lacking about this problem.

In article ,
says...
It seems like we're flogging a dead horse here. It's been 3 days
since the original post, and the OP has not responded with any
further information. If the PC shuts down, but could be restarted
with the front panel button without cycling the rear PSU switch,
then the +5v STBY has not tripped off, as it is needed to start the
system. That's the kind of info we're lacking about this problem.


I've got time to flog a dead horse.

--
- Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum.
- Calling an illegal alien an "undocumented worker" is like calling a
drug dealer an "unlicensed pharmacist"
(remove 999 for proper email address)