Very slow startup, strange progress bar.

Hi,

I re-installed Win XP on my machine (Athalon XP 2100+,
256MB DDR RAM, 60GB primary HDD, 160GB secondary HDD,
GeForce 4 Ti4200 128MB Graphics card) the other day.
Following installation, I installed SP1 (by downloading it
first) and installed a few other programs that I use. When
I re-started my PC following this, it started this strange
behaviour below:

When starting up, it gets past the normal BIOS stuff, to
the OS boot section, it checks for bootable media in both
CD drives, and doesn't boot anything (no CDs in the drives)
, then the screen goes blank, for about 20 seconds.
Following this, it starts with a very simple grey progress
bar across the bottom of the screen (there is a photo (old
-style screenshot!!) if you go he http://www.
alt-control.net/1.JPG (the white spot is the flash
reflection)) this takes 5-10minutes to get halfway, and
then dissappears to be replaced by the usual booting screen
(http://www.alt-control.net/2.JPG) and then it continues to
load fine.

I cannot find any indication, of what this progress bar is,
the amount of time it takes suggests it is doing a scandisk
or something, but I didn't think XP did this during
startup.

If anyone else has had a similar experience, and is willing
to share any information about the cause, I would be very
grateful, even just ideas would be welcome, this is a
little irritating!!

I did not make any hardware changes prior to this starting,
I recently installed a new hard drive (about a week old),
but that was working fine, before the re-installation, so I
can't see that it is that.

If anyone can help me, but needs more information, please
don't hesitate to let me know. I work in IT, so don't worry
about asking complicated questions, I will ask if I don't
understand.

Many thanks, in advance, to anyone who can assist.

Harry

I suggest adding /sos option to the boot command in boot.ini. This will
give you a verbose boot instead of the idiot bar. You should see: all
drivers load (use PAUSE to view), a screen showing OS version, the screen
going blank for a few seconds, and then text saying drive checks completed.
After that should be the Welcome screen.

If scandisk is running, it will happen just before the drive checks
complete. Check the registry to see if you have any apps defined to run
during boot. Look for a BootExecute MULTI_SZ in
HKLM\System\CurrentControlSet\Control\Session Manager.

- Robert -

"Harry" wrote in message
...
Hi,

I re-installed Win XP on my machine (Athalon XP 2100+,
256MB DDR RAM, 60GB primary HDD, 160GB secondary HDD,
GeForce 4 Ti4200 128MB Graphics card) the other day.
Following installation, I installed SP1 (by downloading it
first) and installed a few other programs that I use. When
I re-started my PC following this, it started this strange
behaviour below:

When starting up, it gets past the normal BIOS stuff, to
the OS boot section, it checks for bootable media in both
CD drives, and doesn't boot anything (no CDs in the drives)
, then the screen goes blank, for about 20 seconds.
Following this, it starts with a very simple grey progress
bar across the bottom of the screen (there is a photo (old
-style screenshot!!) if you go he http://www.
alt-control.net/1.JPG (the white spot is the flash
reflection)) this takes 5-10minutes to get halfway, and
then dissappears to be replaced by the usual booting screen
(http://www.alt-control.net/2.JPG) and then it continues to
load fine.

I cannot find any indication, of what this progress bar is,
the amount of time it takes suggests it is doing a scandisk
or something, but I didn't think XP did this during
startup.

If anyone else has had a similar experience, and is willing
to share any information about the cause, I would be very
grateful, even just ideas would be welcome, this is a
little irritating!!

I did not make any hardware changes prior to this starting,
I recently installed a new hard drive (about a week old),
but that was working fine, before the re-installation, so I
can't see that it is that.

If anyone can help me, but needs more information, please
don't hesitate to let me know. I work in IT, so don't worry
about asking complicated questions, I will ask if I don't
understand.

Many thanks, in advance, to anyone who can assist.

Harry

Hi Rob,

Thanks very much for your help, I have found out a bit
more, and while I understand much of it, I still can't see
anything that would cause it to be so slow, I have no idea
what some of this looked like before, there is more
information below, within your reply.

-----Original Message-----
I suggest adding /sos option to the boot command in boot.
ini. This will
give you a verbose boot instead of the idiot bar. You
should see: all
drivers load (use PAUSE to view), a screen showing OS
version, the screen
going blank for a few seconds, and then text saying drive
checks completed.
After that should be the Welcome screen.
OK, I did this, and noted down everything that came up (and
stayed long enough for me to scrawl it on a bit of paper!)

The start up now looks like this:

Normal BIOS stuff runs, tests for CDs/Floppys to boot, then
starts booting Windows
Blank screen for about 20 secs.
Drivers start appearing on the screen, the list that I got
appears he
http://www.alt-control.net/whilebooting.txt
Each driver takes between 5 and 30 seconds to load, before
going to the next one.
Following this, A screen shows telling me: (Format may be
slightly different I was scribbling, but all the numbers
are there)


Microsoft Windows Version 5.1 (Build 2600 Service Pack 1)
1 Processor 256MB Memory


This stays for about 15 seconds, then blank, then drive
checking

Checking Volume D:
Volume Clean
Checking volume E:
Volume Clean
Checking volume c:
Volume Clean

+ one other line which I didn't have time to note down, but
this did not take very long at all, the slow bit is the
driver loading.



If scandisk is running, it will happen just before the
drive checks
complete. Check the registry to see if you have any apps
defined to run
during boot. Look for a BootExecute MULTI_SZ in
HKLM\System\CurrentControlSet\Control\Session Manager.

The BootExecute entry looked like this: autocheck autochk *

My boot.ini file can be found he http://www.alt-control.
net/boot.ini.txt


- Robert -
Many Thanks for your help so far, can anybody offer any
more information given what I have found so far?

Regards,
Harry

The driver load phase should take no more than a few seconds to complete.
It should scroll by so fast that you need to use the PAUSE key to read it.
If you have IDE drives, make sure the controller's transfer mode is set to
DMA and not PIO. The controller's advanced settings in the device manager
will show the current transfer mode. Hopefully, it is UDMA5 or UDMA6. You
can test your file system performance with a benchmark suite like Sandra
2004. You should also check for "resource conflicts" and "problem devices"
in the System Information app (msinfo32). Aida32 is another useful tool for
viewing sys info.

The bottom line is each driver is taking too long to load. That is the
problem you need to solve. The list and order of loaded drivers appears
normal. Although, you may want to see if there are newer versions
available. The BootExecute registry entry is okay. You do not have an app
like scandisk running as you originally thought.

How much swap space have you reserved? Your pagefile size should be set to
384 min (1.5X) and 512 max (2X) for 256 MB . Note -- XP performance is much
better at 512MB; consider an upgrade.

- Robert -

"Harry" wrote in message
...
Hi Rob,

Thanks very much for your help, I have found out a bit
more, and while I understand much of it, I still can't see
anything that would cause it to be so slow, I have no idea
what some of this looked like before, there is more
information below, within your reply.

-----Original Message-----
I suggest adding /sos option to the boot command in boot.
ini. This will
give you a verbose boot instead of the idiot bar. You
should see: all
drivers load (use PAUSE to view), a screen showing OS
version, the screen
going blank for a few seconds, and then text saying drive
checks completed.
After that should be the Welcome screen.
OK, I did this, and noted down everything that came up (and
stayed long enough for me to scrawl it on a bit of paper!)

The start up now looks like this:

Normal BIOS stuff runs, tests for CDs/Floppys to boot, then
starts booting Windows
Blank screen for about 20 secs.
Drivers start appearing on the screen, the list that I got
appears he
http://www.alt-control.net/whilebooting.txt
Each driver takes between 5 and 30 seconds to load, before
going to the next one.
Following this, A screen shows telling me: (Format may be
slightly different I was scribbling, but all the numbers
are there)


Microsoft Windows Version 5.1 (Build 2600 Service Pack 1)
1 Processor 256MB Memory


This stays for about 15 seconds, then blank, then drive
checking

Checking Volume D:
Volume Clean
Checking volume E:
Volume Clean
Checking volume c:
Volume Clean

+ one other line which I didn't have time to note down, but
this did not take very long at all, the slow bit is the
driver loading.



If scandisk is running, it will happen just before the
drive checks
complete. Check the registry to see if you have any apps
defined to run
during boot. Look for a BootExecute MULTI_SZ in
HKLM\System\CurrentControlSet\Control\Session Manager.

The BootExecute entry looked like this: autocheck autochk *

My boot.ini file can be found he http://www.alt-control.
net/boot.ini.txt


- Robert -
Many Thanks for your help so far, can anybody offer any
more information given what I have found so far?

Regards,
Harry

Thanks SOOO much for your help so far, hopefully these will
be my last few questions.

I looked in the BIOS settings, and found some options
relating to PIO, however, I need a hand understanding what
they mean.

First four settings we
Primary Master PIO:
Primary Slave PIO:
Secondary Master PIO:
Secondary Slave PIO:

Each of these had the options "Auto", "Mode 0", "Mode 1",
"Mode 2", "Mode 3" and "Mode 4", all of them had Auto
Selected. I guess the only one I am concerned with is the
Primary Master, and possible the Primary Slave, as these
are the two HDDs
Which option is best for these?

The second set of four settings we
Primary Master UDMA:
Primary Slave UDMA:
Secondary Master UDMA:
Secondary Slave UDMA:

All of them were set to "Disabled" Would it help if I
turned this on, for the primary drives?

I checked in msinfo32 for Resource conflicts, and it seemed
to me like there were quite a few, is it normal to have
any? Do any of these look like they could be causing the
problem:
http://www.alt-control.net/3.jpg

I had a look at the size of my pagefile, and according to
msinfo32 it is 617.82MB, I have set the maximum size to
512, and the initial size to 384, is this likely to help
hugely?

I have been looking at upgrading for a while, now all I
need is the money


Many Thanks for your excellent help, I am very
appreciative!

Regards,
Harry


-----Original Message-----
The driver load phase should take no more than a few
seconds to complete.
It should scroll by so fast that you need to use the PAUSE
key to read it.
If you have IDE drives, make sure the controller's
transfer mode is set to
DMA and not PIO. The controller's advanced settings in
the device manager
will show the current transfer mode. Hopefully, it is
UDMA5 or UDMA6. You
can test your file system performance with a benchmark
suite like Sandra
2004. You should also check for "resource conflicts" and
"problem devices"
in the System Information app (msinfo32). Aida32 is
another useful tool for
viewing sys info.

The bottom line is each driver is taking too long to load.
That is the
problem you need to solve. The list and order of loaded
drivers appears
normal. Although, you may want to see if there are newer
versions
available. The BootExecute registry entry is okay. You
do not have an app
like scandisk running as you originally thought.

How much swap space have you reserved? Your pagefile size
should be set to
384 min (1.5X) and 512 max (2X) for 256 MB . Note -- XP
performance is much
better at 512MB; consider an upgrade.

- Robert -

The first group shows the mode for each channel when the BIOS uses PIO. The
second group shows BIOS DMA operation. You should have all set to Auto (PIO
and DMA) so the BIOS can determine the max speed. Note -- this does not
control the transfer mode used by WXP. WXP has its own IDE driver and you
have to control its operation within the OS. Make sure you check the
controller's Advanced Settings tab in the device manager. If it shows PIO
mode being used, that is your problem. To understand more about BIOS
settings, see the free Optimization Guide at http://www.rojakpot.com/.

The shared resources your screen capture shows is normal. The IDE
controller isn't in conflict with another device. You should have looked at
"problem devices", too. This list should be empty if you haven't disabled
any devices.

Your pagefile size was okay before the change. Setting it to 384/512 allows
the OS to honor memory allocation requests until almost 768MB have been
allocated (256 real + 512 virtual). After that, any app needing memory will
suspend until memory is freed. A larger pagefile is good for heavily loaded
systems; but for normal use, 2X is plenty. Most people don't think of this,
but a fragmented pagefile can affect performance and it can only be
defragmented during boot. If you don't have a 3rd-party tool that will
defrag pagefiles, you can set its size to "none", reboot, then recreate the
file at the proper size. This will give you a contiguous file if your disk
has enough free space. An excellent 3rd-party tool that can defragment
system files and pagefiles is PerfectDisk by Raxco. It places the MFT and
pagefile near the middle of the disk (for shortest distance) and boot files
at the front.

I wish I could have been more helpful. You need to find out why each driver
takes so long to load. I expect the problem to be with the disk's transfer
speed. Good luck!

- Robert -

"Harry" wrote in message
...
Thanks SOOO much for your help so far, hopefully these will
be my last few questions.

I looked in the BIOS settings, and found some options
relating to PIO, however, I need a hand understanding what
they mean.

First four settings we
Primary Master PIO:
Primary Slave PIO:
Secondary Master PIO:
Secondary Slave PIO:

Each of these had the options "Auto", "Mode 0", "Mode 1",
"Mode 2", "Mode 3" and "Mode 4", all of them had Auto
Selected. I guess the only one I am concerned with is the
Primary Master, and possible the Primary Slave, as these
are the two HDDs
Which option is best for these?

The second set of four settings we
Primary Master UDMA:
Primary Slave UDMA:
Secondary Master UDMA:
Secondary Slave UDMA:

All of them were set to "Disabled" Would it help if I
turned this on, for the primary drives?

I checked in msinfo32 for Resource conflicts, and it seemed
to me like there were quite a few, is it normal to have
any? Do any of these look like they could be causing the
problem:
http://www.alt-control.net/3.jpg

I had a look at the size of my pagefile, and according to
msinfo32 it is 617.82MB, I have set the maximum size to
512, and the initial size to 384, is this likely to help
hugely?

I have been looking at upgrading for a while, now all I
need is the money


Many Thanks for your excellent help, I am very
appreciative!

Regards,
Harry


-----Original Message-----
The driver load phase should take no more than a few
seconds to complete.
It should scroll by so fast that you need to use the PAUSE
key to read it.
If you have IDE drives, make sure the controller's
transfer mode is set to
DMA and not PIO. The controller's advanced settings in
the device manager
will show the current transfer mode. Hopefully, it is
UDMA5 or UDMA6. You
can test your file system performance with a benchmark
suite like Sandra
2004. You should also check for "resource conflicts" and
"problem devices"
in the System Information app (msinfo32). Aida32 is
another useful tool for
viewing sys info.

The bottom line is each driver is taking too long to load.
That is the
problem you need to solve. The list and order of loaded
drivers appears
normal. Although, you may want to see if there are newer
versions
available. The BootExecute registry entry is okay. You
do not have an app
like scandisk running as you originally thought.

How much swap space have you reserved? Your pagefile size
should be set to
384 min (1.5X) and 512 max (2X) for 256 MB . Note -- XP
performance is much
better at 512MB; consider an upgrade.

- Robert -

Hi,

Thanks SOOO much for your help Rob, you've been a star!
Following your previous reply, I spent quite a while
fiddling with as many different transfer rate settings as I
could find, then I was just about to give up and try
re-installing Windows, when I noticed the thing in your
response about fragmented pagefiles, so I thought I would
check it out, using the defrag tool (Just clicking the
analyse button) and it turns out the pagefile was fine, but
it was more or less the only file on the drive that wasn't
fragmented, 79% drive fragmentation, and most files were in
several thousand bits, so I de-fragged, and now the problem
appears to have solved.

All I can say is THANK YOU VERY MUCH!! I really didn't want
to have to re-install all over!

Yours,
Harry

I'm glad to hear you got it working. That's the first time I've heard of
anyone having a disk that fragmented ( I usually defrag once or twice a
month). I'm surprised you didn't notice a performance problem long before
it affected the boot process. It was a painful lesson to learn but it
sounds like you've learned the importance of defragmenting file systems.
Good luck!

- Robert -

"Harry" wrote in message
...
Hi,

Thanks SOOO much for your help Rob, you've been a star!
Following your previous reply, I spent quite a while
fiddling with as many different transfer rate settings as I
could find, then I was just about to give up and try
re-installing Windows, when I noticed the thing in your
response about fragmented pagefiles, so I thought I would
check it out, using the defrag tool (Just clicking the
analyse button) and it turns out the pagefile was fine, but
it was more or less the only file on the drive that wasn't
fragmented, 79% drive fragmentation, and most files were in
several thousand bits, so I de-fragged, and now the problem
appears to have solved.

All I can say is THANK YOU VERY MUCH!! I really didn't want
to have to re-install all over!

Yours,
Harry