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Toshiba W-7 went dark



 
 
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  #31  
Old March 13th 18, 02:19 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
Java Jive
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Posts: 391
Default Toshiba W-7 went dark

On 12/03/2018 21:26, HB wrote:

"Java Jive" wrote in message

whereas I think your other half meant just the hard drive, assuming it was
dead, did she not? This is a standard way of preventing personal data
being retrieved from binned HDs. Personally, I use a lump hammer and a
cold chisel on a concrete floor or step.


Yes, that's what she meant. Destroy the HD.


Thought as much, but let's make sure that it really is dead before we
perform the last rites ...

But is the HD really dead, or has it just got corrupted ...


It's not dead as it brought up technical screens when tapping F8 or F2. It
ran fine with the battery not charged and plugged in.


No, the technical screens come from the BIOS, which is *usually* a chip
on the motherboard, not written to the HD.

{
Hopefully irrelevant historical note:

Having said that, about 15-20 years ago I encountered some Dell desktops
where some of the BIOS functions were combined with some Dell system
recovery functions on a hidden first partition of the HD, and if, as was
the firm's policy, you wiped the HD before putting the firm's standard
build on it, you lost that partition and thereby the ability to enter
the useful BIOS interactive GUI. I presume some BIOS functionality must
have remained, because otherwise the PCs could not have got as far as
booting the OS, but the BIOS GUI was definitely missing. Consequently,
I rewrote the scripts to leave the hidden partition in place.
}

On the back it just says Satellite followed by numbers. I don't know
which
numbers would be relevant. This is the 1st number. C655D (or 0) S5063
system
unit.


I would suggest going to Toshiba's site and comparing what you have with
pictures of other models and their given designations one of which will
probably be close to the above. When dealing with problems or buying
spares, it is *nearly always important* to know exactly what it is that
you have.


This was given to us by a realtive. She said it was too slow and wanted a
better faster newer laptop.


I'm afraid that you must learn what is useful information and what is
not - the above is not.

What would be useful is for you to find the exact model number by
comparing what you have with information from Toshiba's website.

I could usually get rid of problems like this by accessing
safe mode and doing as System Recovery or Restore. But nothing led to safe
mode.


What you are referring to as 'Safe Mode' is part of Windows, which you
will only reach if the HD is working.

You need to get your head around how a PC boots. The processor in a PC
is built in such a way that on receiving power it goes to a particular
place in its memory to begin execution of whatever instructions it finds
there. These instructions are part of the Basic Input Output System
(the BIOS that we keep mentioning). The BIOS performs some
self-diagnostic tests, then if these are satisfactory it searches any
attached media - hard disk, CD/DVD, or USB stick, in an order that is
settable within the BIOS - for an Operating System (OS) to run.
Usually, as in your case, it finds an OS on the first partition of the
only HD, and, again as in your case, it is often Windows. There is more
detail on another page on my site that describes this process:

http://www.macfh.co.uk/JavaJive/PCHa...otProcess.html

Whether or not you choose to understand the details above, the important
consequence is that, if the HD has gone down, the PC can never find an
OS to run, and can never offer you Windows 'Safe Mode'.

I'll do some Googling again and see if I find anything helpful. I'm sure a
tech would have found those screens that came up helpful. To me they may as
well have been in Chinese.


BUT the fact that you have got into the BIOS at all does suggest that
most of the PC is functioning, and in itself that is encouraging. Next
we have to find out which part of the PC is broken, and, from what we
know so far, the hard disk does seem a likely culprit, but it would be
premature to *assume* that at this stage.

More generally, when reading technical stuff that is unfamiliar to you,
it's important to resist developing the habit of going into either panic
or glaze mode. Although officially I'm now retired, I've just spent
three days at a legacy client's configuring a cloud phone system,
something which I've never done before, and I did it successfully
because I did it step by step, trying to understand one thing at a time.
You have to be prepared to invest some time and effort in studying and
trying to understand what needs to be understood.

If the laptop can boot from a USB stick, then download an Ubuntu or other
Linux distro - make sure you get a suitable one, 32-bit or 64-bit as
appropriate - install it on a 2GB or larger USB stick, depending on the
size of the download, and see what messages Linux generates as it tries to
boot the PC. This may give you some useful pointers to a hardware fault.
If the PC boots from the stick, then you should see your hard disk
partition(s) as clickable icons down the left hand side menu (in Ubuntu,
other distros may be different, for example the icons may be on the
desktop). Try this and come back to us with a description of what
happens, particularly whether the PC boots at all, whether Linux lets see
your HD at all, and even the contents of it.


OK.. will do.


Have you tried this yet? If the PC can boot from a USB stick, then
hopefully all that is wrong is the HD, so then we would have to see if
it can be retrieved as a whole, or at least if your data can be
retrieved from it.

IMPORTANT NOTE: You may have to master an understanding of the BIOS
sufficient to set the boot order so as to ensure that the PC will try to
boot from a USB stick, if one is present. If that is beyond you, burn
the Linux distro to a CD or DVD instead, and see if the PC will boot
from that.
Ads
  #32  
Old March 13th 18, 03:32 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
Paul[_32_]
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Posts: 11,873
Default Toshiba W-7 went dark

HB wrote:

You could run a Linux from the CD/DVD drive, which would IMO would merely
confirm that the HDD is bad.


Booting a Linux LiveCD confirms it's a computer
and that it mostly works.

The speed with which it boots, is also a testament to
the performance level.

The fact it's got an InsydeH2O BIOS tells me it's
a relatively new machine (it would be about the same
as my [gifted] laptop from a relative), and mine runs
fine with Win7 or Win10 on it.

Once the machine boots with a DVD like that, a machine
of that vintage can also boot from a USB stick. The current
generation of DVDs for Linux, you can "dd" them right onto
a USB stick and boot from it. USB sticks boot faster than
DVDs, because there is little (1 millisecond) seek time,
compared to 110 milliseconds to move the heads on a DVD
drive.

The purpose of booting the first time with a DVD, is just
to see everything works well enough to boot. But you can
also easily download a Linux ISO and use "dd" to transfer
it to a USB stick. And skip the DVD stage altogether.

The downloads might be on the order of 1.5GB or so.
You can use the public library Internet to download, if
your home Internet isn't suited to this.

http://mirror.csclub.uwaterloo.ca/li...xfce-32bit.iso

This is a port of "dd" for Windows, called dd.exe .

http://www.chrysocome.net/dd

On your working computer (where you will be downloading and preparing a USB stick),
you run commands like this from an Administrator (elevated) Command Prompt window.

cd /d %userprofile%\Downloads

dir dd.exe linuxmint-17.1-xfce-32bit.iso === prove the files are where they're
supposed to be. The commands won't
run unless you can see the files now.

dd --list === this dumps names for the drives on the system
=== the order is the same order as Disk Management
=== do *not* issue the next command unless you
are sure you understand where the USB stick is
in the namespace. The Harddisk2 in the next command
is an example, and might not be what yours needs.
"dd" could ruin the OS drive, if "mis-aimed".
"dd" is *destructive*, use with care.

dd if=linuxmint-17.1-xfce-32bit.iso of=\\?\Device\Harddisk2\Partition0

This technique works for any modern Linux distro that offers
what are called "hybrid discs". The ISO image has more than
one file system overlaid, and also has multiple partitions,
which support both legacy BIOS and UEFI BIOS booting.

Since the laptop is relatively modern, it's likely to have
enough RAM to boot Linux. Older machines, we'd have to be a
lot more careful. When I booted up a TUV4X here, with an S370
socket processor in it, I had to put the max possible RAM in it
(3x512MB) to make lots of room to run a browser and so on :-)

In terms of speed, there isn't too much difference between Linux
and Windows. And part of this is due to ancient video hardware
in the machines, not providing the "acceleration" the desktop
needs. The software then "leans on the CPU" to make up the
difference. The root cause, is the assumption that all computers
have good graphics. Then when modern OSes run on crummy graphics,
they end up a lot slower because of this "bad assumption".

Summary : the above is some fun you can have with an old
computer you'd otherwise just dump in the garbage...
You'll need a USB stick, at least 4GB in size, to hold
the relatively small ISO file, if you want to boot from USB.
Walmart usually has 32GB sticks for around $20 or so, if you
don't have a pile of USB sticks sitting around for this.
This style of usage, doesn't allow that particular USB stick,
to be used to store other (random) files. The stick must be
erased before being reused for other purposes (dd can erase
it too, by writing zeros over part of it).

*******

When Linux is running, you can use "smartmontools" to list the
health info for the hard drive.

sudo smartctl -a /dev/sdc

ID# ATTRIBUTE_NAME FLAG VALUE WORST THRESH TYPE UPDATED WHEN_FAILED RAW_VALUE
5 Reallocated_Sector_Ct 0x0033 092 092 036 Pre-fail Always - 334

Normally, the value of that one is 0, but my sample disk is a bit sick,
and the life has dropped from 100 to 92. The drive is "dead" if
the value field hits 36 (same as Threshold). It won't really
be dead, but it'll be pretty damn slow. This shows the service
history of that sample disk, showing it's going bad, but it's
decided to go bad very slowly. My purpose in showing this table,
is to show how all the columns function as the errors grow.
Some drives use a normalized value of 200 instead of 100,
and they do that just to annoy people :-)

Current Worst Threshold Data Status
Reallocated Sector Count 100 100 36 0 OK \
Reallocated Sector Count 100 100 36 57 OK \___ These grew in
Reallocated Sector Count 98 98 36 104 OK / a couple days
Reallocated Sector Count 92 92 36 334 OK ----- Two years later...

The smartctl program doesn't offer a lot of editorial comments,
nor does it pass judgment as such (it'll say a sick drive is "OK").
Which is a shame, as end-users need advice, but it's also safer
for the developer to not "over-stretch" their area of expertise.
SMART isn't a wonderful system, but it's all we've got, when
figuring out if a hard drive is sick or not. It's better than
nothing. It's better than a coin toss. I stopped regularly
using that hard drive, when it hit 104 errors, but that
was because the error rate increase was looking pretty bad.

This is a picture of the that hard drive, in real life.

https://s13.postimg.org/k41aqxntj/re...ting_drive.gif

Paul
  #33  
Old March 13th 18, 04:40 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
Patrick[_9_]
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Posts: 116
Default Toshiba W-7 went dark

On 13/03/2018 02:00, HB wrote:
"Patrick" wrote in message
news
On 10/03/2018 07:15, HB wrote:
When it rains it pours. The Toshiba LP W-7 64 went dark. It was fine,
was
shut off and when I hit the On button a few days later, just a black
screen
with a blinking " - " in the upper left-hand corner. Tapping the F8 is
supposed to bring up Safe Mode (as per Google) but instead up came a
screen
to do a memory scan. After it finished I tried again and it came up with
6
tabs of technical info that's alien to me. None of the tabs were for Safe
Mode. I had no way to know what to do on any of the screens. Anyone know
how
to get Safe Mode to come up on a Toshiba W-7?

Where do I go from here? The LP actually gets little use and is like new.
I
hate to recycle it.

I noticed a few days before that the battery wasn't charging. Since it
was
almost always used plugged in, it didn't matter.



Does this look like the LapTop that you are refering to;

https://support.toshiba.com/support/...eeText=2743964


This looks like it. Please see my reply to VanguardLH of 9:54 above.


Does this possibly ring a bell? (I havn't been right through it myself yet);

https://www.justanswer.com/computer/...p-utility.html

https://tinyurl.com/y9uku7nx
  #34  
Old March 13th 18, 04:46 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
J. P. Gilliver (John)[_4_]
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Posts: 2,679
Default Toshiba W-7 went dark

Please read and answer all - I know I tend to be wordy (as do most here
who are trying to help), but most questions I answer here are simple
yes-no answers, and they'll help us all considerably to help you. There
are only about three questions - in fact I'll number them **thus**.

In message , HB writes:

"J. P. Gilliver (John)" wrote in message
...

[]
_Does_ the poorly PC have a separate panel on the bottom that can be
removed to get at the hard drive?


I already removed it and made sure it went back in OK.

[]
OK, so that's eliminated one source of the problem. It wasn't _that_
likely, just it was easy to check. (Though I have had a machine where it
does slide out of contact occasionally!)

**Q1** Can you tell, by powering up and down with a finger on the drive
(or your ear close to it), whether it is actually spinning up? Not that
if you can't this proves that it isn't - some modern drives are very
quiet and vibration-free. But it's worth a try as it's easy to do. And
if it is, that still doesn't mean that it's working, just that it isn't
stuck and the motor runs.

[If you can be _sure_ that it _isn't_ spinning, you've _probably_ found
the problem: I _suppose_ it _could_ be that the motherboard isn't
telling it to spin or providing power to it, but that's rare.]

Since you can get it out easily enough, the next stage is to do so and
connect it to another computer (obviously you _have_ another computer as
you're talking to us!) and see if _that_ can see it - ideally direct
rather than via USB, as you'd be able to do more thorough tests, but via
USB is better than nothing. Direct would likely to be a desktop machine,
as few laptops have provision for more than one drive. (_Don't_ fit it
in place of the _only_ drive in another machine - that would likely
cause problems!)

**Q2** I _presume_, since it's 250G and someone said the BIOS suggests
it's a modern-ish laptop anyway, that it's a SATA drive (two short
connectors with L-shaped alignment guides, rather than one long two row
connector). **Q3** _Do_ you have a suitable desktop machine with
suitable extra ports to try it in? You might have to buy a SATA cable
(and if unlucky a power adapter cable too: for SATA, the power is on the
larger connector, and you _may_ only have the old four-pin connectors
spare). Or, if the desktop has a SATA DVD/CD drive, you could
temporarily borrow the connections from that.

I'll stop there for now. The next question _would_ be **Q4** when the
desktop machine has booted (or does it boot?), does it see an extra
drive, and **Q5** can you look at what's on it. But I'll leave that
until we have the answer to Q3, as if you don't have a SATA connection
to test it on (assuming it _is_ a SATA drive), we'll have to go the USB
route.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

"There are a great many people in the country today who, through no fault of
their own, are sane." - Monty Python's Flying Circus
  #35  
Old March 13th 18, 04:55 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
J. P. Gilliver (John)[_4_]
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Posts: 2,679
Default Toshiba W-7 went dark

In message , Wolf K
writes:
[]
As Vanguard says, either Windows is messed up somehow, or else the HDD
is messed up somehow. Either way, Windows isn't being loaded. The boot
stops before it loads Windows. I don't know which is more likely on
your case, but IMO it's the HDD.

I'm afraid that all you can do at this point is a couple more
diagnostic tests, such as booting Linux (another operating system) from
the CD/DVD drive. You'd have to ask a friend to download Linux and burn
it it to a DVD.


He wouldn't have to ask a friend: he's obviously got another computer,
as he's talking to us. (OK, we might or might not have to talk him
through burning from an ISO, but that's trivial.) Assuming his other
computer has a DVD burner that is. (Though even one of the old Linuces
that will fit on a CD would probably serve our needs here.)

But the bottom line IMO is that you can't do anything to fix this
machine. A tech can probably fix it, but it's up to you to decide
whether it's worth the price.


I wouldn't go that far yet! Let's establish whether it's a faulty HD, or
just file corruption, first. I haven't seen anything yet to indicate
there's anything wrong with the machine that isn't just one of those two
(though it is possible).

More explanation of what you are seeing when you try to boot the machine:

You are seeing the BIOS config screen. Windows is not starting at all.

BIOS = "basic Input Output System". It's a small program that's built


Or built-in operating system.
[]
Good luck and best wishes,

From me too. I think HB is capable of doing more for himself, with
perhaps guidance from us where necessary, than some here think (-:
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Veni Vidi Vacuum [I came, I saw, It sucked] - , 1998
  #36  
Old March 13th 18, 05:08 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
J. P. Gilliver (John)[_4_]
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Posts: 2,679
Default Toshiba W-7 went dark

In message , HB writes:

"VanguardLH" wrote in message
...
HB wrote:

VanguardLH wrote ...

[]
Doesn't the laptop's own boot screen offer a choice to hit a special key
or key combo the restore the computer to factory-time setup?


No.

Don't worry: the option to restore to factory settings *from the BIOS
boot screen* isn't common. (I don't think _I_ have ever seen it, though
from what some have said here some Dells might have it - though as they
described it, that'd still need a working HD.)
[]
When I chose HDD I got this: "A disk read error occured. Press Ctrl+alt+Del


Does _sound_ like the HD isn't well. (Though _could_ still be boot
sector [part of the disc] corruption, which is fixable.)

to restart." Did that and got the blank screen with the blinking - in the
corner.

BTW, thought the battery was supposedly dead, not charging, the PC still
starts when unplugged. These screens appear and I can hear the HD come to
life. So I don't think that info was correct it was showing before going
dark. There is life in it.

Good to know. And sorry, I didn't register what you said the ignore
my **Q1** in my last post, as you've told us you can hear the HD spin
up. (As long as you're sure it was/is the HD not the fan, that is!)
[]
So I can't get any further. I have no bootable emergency discs. They were
lost in the move. Maybe it doesn't matter because they didn't work on the 2


Not having them isn't a _huge_ problem - you can _make_ them on the PC
you're talking to us on, assuming it has a suitable burner drive. They
might not be the exact right ones for the poorly PC, but we should be
able to get somewhere using them. BUT, since you can easily take out the
HD, diagnosing it on another PC (and possibly even repairing it there,
if the problem _is_ only file corruption) is probably an easier first
thing to do.

PCs I had in the past with this same problem. A PC gets turned on and all
that appeared would be a blank screen with the blinker. Now when I see this
blinker in the upper left hand corner, I feel it's most likely the death of
that PC.

We don't give up that easily (-:


--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Veni Vidi Vacuum [I came, I saw, It sucked] - , 1998
  #37  
Old March 13th 18, 09:07 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
VanguardLH[_2_]
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Posts: 10,881
Default Toshiba W-7 went dark

HB wrote:

When I chose HDD I got this: "A disk read error occured. Press Ctrl+alt+Del
to restart." Did that and got the blank screen with the blinking - in the


Since you gave no mention of the model number, it is possible what I
happened to find doing a vague search does not apply to your particular
model. You need to get the model number and do searches on "toshiba
model recovery" to find articles that match on your model.

You seem unable to interpret the underside label on the laptop case.
Take a photo of it, upload to online storage, give a URL to that photo,
and let others see what model you have. Until then, I can only find
Toshiba instructions on some of their models saying how to perform a
recovery [re]install of the factory-time image onto the HDD.'

Did I miss where you removed the HDD and then determined how far the
laptop will boot? You could also record the boot sequence using your
smartphone (assuming you have one) or a digital camera (another
assumption) to upload it so we can see what is happening during the boot
sequence.

Also, you already found out how to get into the BIOS config screens.
From your description, it appears it came configured to show a splash
screen on boot. That gets in the way of seeing what is happening during
the boot sequence. Go into the BIOS to disable the splash screen. Then
you can see the POST screen and what shows up afterward. Again, with
the model number, there's no way to lookup what the boot sequence should
look like on your particular model.
  #38  
Old March 14th 18, 06:47 AM posted to alt.windows7.general
HB[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 179
Default Toshiba W-7 went dark


"J. P. Gilliver (John)" wrote in message
...
Please read and answer all - I know I tend to be wordy (as do most here
who are trying to help), but most questions I answer here are simple
yes-no answers, and they'll help us all considerably to help you. There
are only about three questions - in fact I'll number them **thus**.

In message , HB writes:

"J. P. Gilliver (John)" wrote in message
...

[]
_Does_ the poorly PC have a separate panel on the bottom that can be
removed to get at the hard drive?


I already removed it and made sure it went back in OK.

[]
OK, so that's eliminated one source of the problem. It wasn't _that_
likely, just it was easy to check. (Though I have had a machine where it
does slide out of contact occasionally!)

**Q1** Can you tell, by powering up and down with a finger on the drive
(or your ear close to it), whether it is actually spinning up? Not that if
you can't this proves that it isn't - some modern drives are very quiet
and vibration-free. But it's worth a try as it's easy to do. And if it is,
that still doesn't mean that it's working, just that it isn't stuck and
the motor runs.


I can hear it spin up an when the cooling fan starts. Both when not plugged
in so I know the battery is still good and taking a charge.



[If you can be _sure_ that it _isn't_ spinning, you've _probably_ found
the problem: I _suppose_ it _could_ be that the motherboard isn't telling
it to spin or providing power to it, but that's rare.]



Since you can get it out easily enough, the next stage is to do so and
connect it to another computer (obviously you _have_ another computer as
you're talking to us!) and see if _that_ can see it - ideally direct
rather than via USB, as you'd be able to do more thorough tests, but via
USB is better than nothing. Direct would likely to be a desktop machine,
as few laptops have provision for more than one drive. (_Don't_ fit it in
place of the _only_ drive in another machine - that would likely cause
problems!)


I don't know how to safely connect it to the desktop machine. The HDs are
very different sizes. And now with the W-10 forced updates, loss of OE6
because of them and my daughter complaining her favorite game is messed up
on the new HP laptop since the update, this W-7 is all that much more
valuable to me.


**Q2** I _presume_, since it's 250G and someone said the BIOS suggests
it's a modern-ish laptop anyway, that it's a SATA drive (two short
connectors with L-shaped alignment guides, rather than one long two row
connector). **Q3** _Do_ you have a suitable desktop machine with suitable
extra ports to try it in? You might have to buy a SATA cable (and if
unlucky a power adapter cable too: for SATA, the power is on the larger
connector, and you _may_ only have the old four-pin connectors spare). Or,
if the desktop has a SATA DVD/CD drive, you could temporarily borrow the
connections from that.


There are two connecters to the HD in the Toshiba. I have no idea what I'm
doing when it comes to the hardware.


I'll stop there for now. The next question _would_ be **Q4** when the
desktop machine has booted (or does it boot?), does it see an extra drive,
and **Q5** can you look at what's on it. But I'll leave that until we have
the answer to Q3, as if you don't have a SATA connection to test it on
(assuming it _is_ a SATA drive), we'll have to go the USB route.


I have zero computer parts on hand. I wouldn't know what I would need to
connect it to the DT or even where to try to connect it. It's a HP Pavilion
P7-1003W.

--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

"There are a great many people in the country today who, through no fault
of
their own, are sane." - Monty Python's Flying Circus



  #39  
Old March 14th 18, 07:32 AM posted to alt.windows7.general
HB[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 179
Default Toshiba W-7 went dark


"Paul" wrote in message
news
HB wrote:
"Wolf K" wrote in message


f8 or f2 access BIOS, _not_ the HD. Can you copy (by hand, I guss) and
post the technical messages? That would be helpful.


It says "InsydeH20setup utility" at the top of the screen.

There are too many. 6 tabs on one screen. Text on each tab. None mention
Safe Mode or system recovery. Example. On the Avanced tab it says: Boot
Speed. Boot sound. USB Legacy Emulation. System Configuration.

These are images that I found of what I'm seeing for the most part.
They're the closest but not exactly the same.

https://www.google.com/search?q=Insy...w=1408&bih=625

I'm going by what I found on the net. None of the F keys brings up the
screen I'm familiar with where Safe Mode is a choice. The online info
says to tap F8 as the PC comes on but all that gets me is a black screen
and a annoying beeping sound when a key is pressed.


InsydeH20 is a *BIOS* company.

Pressing F2 or F8 or F12 early after the power
comes on, caused you to drop into the BIOS.

After the flashing "_" appears in the upper left
hand corner of an otherwise black screen, is the
OS booting. At that point, some of the older OSes
would accept pressing of F8 to enter the
Safe Mode OS menu.


That didn't work. No menu. No choice of Safe Mode.


The timing of the key press is critical. On
a machine with a BIOS which happens to use F8, you
will end up in the BIOS if your timing is not
perfect. And if you're late during the OS boot
phase, the OS will (attempt) to boot in regular mode.

On the modern OSes, you can use BCDEdit from the
OS installer DVD or from the emergency boot CD,
use the Command Prompt window there, to set a BCD
option to cause the machine to stop at the
Safe Mode screen.


This Toshiba was given to me with nothing - no CD and no emergency boot
disc.


However, if the booting bits of your OS are
corrupted, it might never even get a chance
to consider your presses of F8, or your
entreaty via the BCD, to stop at the
Safe Mode screen.

*******

As an example:

1) Boot the computer using the Windows 7 SP1 installer DVD.
Select the troubleshooting options, rather than anything
related to installation. That might require accepting the
"language" screen when it comes up, but after that, there
should be a button for Troubleshooting. This gives a
Command Prompt window.


I have no discs for the computer. I didn't get any with the last few NEW
computers I bought either. Discs seem to be a thing of the past. The last
disc I got with a PC was for WXP years ago.


2) Look at Option 3 here.

https://www.sevenforums.com/tutorial...safe-mode.html

bcdedit # review the details
# sometimes a refusal to boot is
# caused by a blank entry for a
volume

bcdedit /set {current} safeboot minimal # Add the entry to BCD

bcdedit # Verify it looks correct



HP Pavillian.

3) Type "exit" in Command Prompt or close the window,
then allow the machine to boot to the hard drive.

I don't know why you're heading to Safe Mode, what you have
in mind, but that's an example of doing it.



I wanted to get into SM to do a system recovery so the black screen of death
didn't occur again. How do I do that with no discs? F8 doesn't bring up
Advanced Boot Options anymore.



To remove it later, you can repeat the above approach from
a Windows Administrator (elevated) Command Prompt window.

bcdedit # review the details
# Make sure the menu item is in
"Current"

bcdedit /deletevalue {current} safeboot

Some of the BCD options can also be neutered by "/set"
to a benign value, and then you don't even need to
deletevalue to switch them off. BCD also has
options where it has Booleans, and True and False
are synonyms for Yes and No.

The nice thing about BCDEdit, is a hell of a lot of
nice examples have been written and documented since
Vista came out. And working with the BCD (from an
emergency boot CD or from an installer DVD), no longer
has to be "mysterious". The sevenforums site has
recipes. Not all the recipes are "most useful",
and the reason I selected the Option 3 from the
above one, is a lot of what we do here is "emergency"
edits, where the user can no longer use the regular
OS to edit stuff.

You can do offline edits (edit the BCD on other drives
in the computer), using the /store option.

bcdedit /store C:\boot\BCD /set {bootmgr} displaybootmenu True

When you do stuff like that, it's up to you to use
the "dir" command to actually verify the drive lettering,
since drives get different lettering in virtually every
environment you work in.

That particular command there, happens to be a favorite of
mine, because it adds a "WinXP style black boot menu" to
OSes like Windows 10 :-) Just ignoring the two OS boot
choices here, there *is* a row on the screen that says
to "press F8", so this menu just happens to give you
access to all the Safe Mode options. I want this window
for the "press F8" option, not because the OS boot
choices look pretty or something. This is how I get to
Safe Mode. The black screen sits there for 30 seconds,
giving plenty of time to make a single press of F8.

https://www.tenforums.com/tutorials/...dows-10-a.html

bcdedit /store C:\boot\BCD /set {bootmgr} displaybootmenu True #
booted from emergency CD
bcdedit /set {bootmgr} displaybootmenu True #
From regular OS cmd.exe

HTH,
Paul


You're assuming F8 works and I can get to that menu when I cannot or I would
not be here. I could have done the System Restore and that would have been
the end of it. F8 doesn't bring up Advanced Boot Options anymore and there
are no discs that came with the Toshiba. How do I get that menu to come up
when F8 doesn't do it and there are no discs?


  #40  
Old March 14th 18, 07:43 AM posted to alt.windows7.general
HB[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 179
Default Toshiba W-7 went dark


"J. P. Gilliver (John)" wrote in message
...
In message , Wolf K
writes:
[]
As Vanguard says, either Windows is messed up somehow, or else the HDD is
messed up somehow. Either way, Windows isn't being loaded. The boot stops
before it loads Windows. I don't know which is more likely on your case,
but IMO it's the HDD.

I'm afraid that all you can do at this point is a couple more diagnostic
tests, such as booting Linux (another operating system) from the CD/DVD
drive. You'd have to ask a friend to download Linux and burn it it to a
DVD.


He wouldn't have to ask a friend: he's obviously got another computer, as
he's talking to us. (OK, we might or might not have to talk him through
burning from an ISO, but that's trivial.) Assuming his other computer has
a DVD burner that is. (Though even one of the old Linuces that will fit on
a CD would probably serve our needs here.)


They all have CD drives except the Tablet. Do I just download this Linux,
burn it to a CD or DVD and then try to boot the Toshiba with it? Just put
it in the tray and.....? At what point does the CD go into the tray? That
wont mess up the windows files already on the HD?


But the bottom line IMO is that you can't do anything to fix this machine.
A tech can probably fix it, but it's up to you to decide whether it's
worth the price.


I wouldn't go that far yet! Let's establish whether it's a faulty HD, or
just file corruption, first. I haven't seen anything yet to indicate
there's anything wrong with the machine that isn't just one of those two
(though it is possible).

More explanation of what you are seeing when you try to boot the machine:

You are seeing the BIOS config screen. Windows is not starting at all.

BIOS = "basic Input Output System". It's a small program that's built


Or built-in operating system.
[]
Good luck and best wishes,

From me too. I think HB is capable of doing more for himself, with perhaps
guidance from us where necessary, than some here think (-:
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Veni Vidi Vacuum [I came, I saw, It sucked] - ,
1998



  #41  
Old March 14th 18, 08:20 AM posted to alt.windows7.general
HB[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 179
Default Toshiba W-7 went dark


"Java Jive" wrote in message
news
On 12/03/2018 21:26, HB wrote:

"Java Jive" wrote in message

whereas I think your other half meant just the hard drive, assuming it
was
dead, did she not? This is a standard way of preventing personal data
being retrieved from binned HDs. Personally, I use a lump hammer and a
cold chisel on a concrete floor or step.


Yes, that's what she meant. Destroy the HD.


Thought as much, but let's make sure that it really is dead before we
perform the last rites ...

But is the HD really dead, or has it just got corrupted ...


It's not dead as it brought up technical screens when tapping F8 or F2.
It
ran fine with the battery not charged and plugged in.


No, the technical screens come from the BIOS, which is *usually* a chip on
the motherboard, not written to the HD.


I learn something every day. Seriously.


{
Hopefully irrelevant historical note:

Having said that, about 15-20 years ago I encountered some Dell desktops
where some of the BIOS functions were combined with some Dell system
recovery functions on a hidden first partition of the HD, and if, as was
the firm's policy, you wiped the HD before putting the firm's standard
build on it, you lost that partition and thereby the ability to enter the
useful BIOS interactive GUI. I presume some BIOS functionality must have
remained, because otherwise the PCs could not have got as far as booting
the OS, but the BIOS GUI was definitely missing. Consequently, I rewrote
the scripts to leave the hidden partition in place.
}

On the back it just says Satellite followed by numbers. I don't know
which
numbers would be relevant. This is the 1st number. C655D (or 0) S5063
system
unit.

I would suggest going to Toshiba's site and comparing what you have with
pictures of other models and their given designations one of which will
probably be close to the above. When dealing with problems or buying
spares, it is *nearly always important* to know exactly what it is that
you have.


This was given to us by a realtive. She said it was too slow and wanted
a
better faster newer laptop.


I'm afraid that you must learn what is useful information and what is
ot - the above is not.



What would be useful is for you to find the exact model number by
comparing what you have with information from Toshiba's website.

I could usually get rid of problems like this by accessing
safe mode and doing as System Recovery or Restore. But nothing led to
safe
mode.


What you are referring to as 'Safe Mode' is part of Windows, which you
will only reach if the HD is working.


I hear it spin up and when the PC gets hot the I can hear a fan start.


You need to get your head around how a PC boots. The processor in a PC is
built in such a way that on receiving power it goes to a particular place
in its memory to begin execution of whatever instructions it finds there.
These instructions are part of the Basic Input Output System (the BIOS
that we keep mentioning). The BIOS performs some self-diagnostic tests,
then if these are satisfactory it searches any attached media - hard
disk, CD/DVD, or USB stick, in an order that is settable within the
IOS - for an Operating System (OS) to run. Usually, as in your case, it
finds an OS on the first partition of the only HD, and, again as in your
case, it is often Windows. There is more detail on another page on my
site that describes this process.

http://www.macfh.co.uk/JavaJive/PCHa...ootProcess.htm


Interesting and informative. I'll check your site tomorrow.


Whether or not you choose to understand the details above, the important
consequence is that, if the HD has gone down, the PC can never find an OS
to run, and can never offer you Windows 'Safe Mode'.




I'll do some Googling again and see if I find anything helpful. I'm sure
a
tech would have found those screens that came up helpful. To me they may
as
well have been in Chinese.



BUT the fact that you have got into the BIOS at all does suggest that most
of the PC is functioning, and in itself that is encouraging. Next we have
to find out which part of the PC is broken, and, from what we know so far,
the hard disk does seem a likely culprit, but it would be premature to
*assume* that at this stage.


OK.


More generally, when reading technical stuff that is unfamiliar to you,
it's important to resist developing the habit of going into either panic
or glaze mode. Although officially I'm now retired, I've just spent three
days at a legacy client's configuring a cloud phone system, something
which I've never done before, and I did it successfully because I did it
step by step, trying to understand one thing at a time. You have to be
prepared to invest some time and effort in studying and trying to
understand what needs to be understood.


I agree with you completely. Glaze mode sounds familiar.


If the laptop can boot from a USB stick, then download an Ubuntu or
other
Linux distro - make sure you get a suitable one, 32-bit or 64-bit as
appropriate - install it on a 2GB or larger USB stick, depending on
the
size of the download, and see what messages Linux generates as it tries
to
boot the PC. This may give you some useful pointers to a hardware
fault.
If the PC boots from the stick, then you should see your hard disk
partition(s) as clickable icons down the left hand side menu (in Ubuntu,
other distros may be different, for example the icons may be on the
desktop). Try this and come back to us with a description of what
happens, particularly whether the PC boots at all, whether Linux lets
see
your HD at all, and even the contents of it.


OK.. will do.OS.



Have you tried this yet? If the PC can boot from a USB stick, then
hopefully all that is wrong is the HD, so then we would have to see if it
can be retrieved as a whole, or at least if your data can be retrieved
from it.


No, my job and family interfered. I have to stop and pick up a flash drive
as the ones I have don't have 2 GB of space left for this Ubantu. I assume I
just insert the flash and turn the Toshiba on and see what happens? What's
suppose to happen? I know nothing about that OS. Or I can use DVDs. Maybe
that's the better choice since there are plenty of them here. That should be
handled tomorrow. Too much coffee, not enough sleep.


IMPORTANT NOTE: You may have to master an understanding of the BIOS
sufficient to set the boot order so as to ensure that the PC will try to
boot from a USB stick, if one is present. If that is beyond you, burn the
Linux distro to a CD or DVD instead, and see if the PC will boot from
that.


F2 brought up InsydeH20 Setup Utility. I got the Boot tab where it can be
changed from HDD/SSD to FDD, LAN or USB.

The battery is still charged as it's not plugged in this time either.



  #42  
Old March 14th 18, 09:37 AM posted to alt.windows7.general
Paul[_32_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 11,873
Default Toshiba W-7 went dark

HB wrote:


This Toshiba was given to me with nothing - no CD and no emergency boot
disc.


The Heidoc URL generator is still down, for obtaining retail
Windows 7 SP1 discs.

https://www.heidoc.net/joomla/techno...-download-tool

It's hard to say whether that designer will be able to get it
fixed again.

This is the result of running the current version (5.29).

https://s13.postimg.org/67kudtklj/heidoc.gif

Heidoc doesn't host the ISO files. It merely generates a URL
for a microsoft folder that contains the ISO. The URL (like other
Microsoft dynamic downloads) is only valid for 24 hours once
the URL is generated.

The "trick" for getting Windows 7 is broken right now, and
who knows whether it can ever be fixed.

*******

The second source of ISO files, is DigitalRiver, who is a
software seller, and they worked with Microsoft. And their
download servers were "open" and people used to get copies
of particular Windows 7 SKUs that way. I got a Home Premium x64
for my laptop that way. The DigitalRiver OS server has been closed
for several years now.

*******

If you have multiple computers, if one of them has a Retail
Win7 license key, you can use that with the official Microsoft
download page. Say for example, you had a desktop with Win7 Ultimate.
Take the license key from that, enter it on this page, and
order up a Win7 SP1 Home Premium for your laptop. All you need
is one good key, to download any SKU you need for Win7.
(You can change the country-code here from en-ca to whatever
country you're in. To make things nice and tidy. Like en-us
or en-gb and so on.)

https://www.microsoft.com/en-ca/soft...nload/windows7

As far as I'm concerned, anyone who has an OS to repair,
deserves an ISO to use, and this "license entry" idea is
for the birds. We don't want to rely on MSDN-inspired
Torrents for our install DVDs, now do we ? :-)

*******

It's quite possible the laptop has a restore partition,
which could also put the original OS back, whatever that
OS might be. It all depends on whether the hard drive was
ever replaced at some point, as to whether it's still
there.

Paul
  #43  
Old March 14th 18, 01:42 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
J. P. Gilliver (John)[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,679
Default Toshiba W-7 went dark

In message , HB writes:
[]
I can hear it spin up an when the cooling fan starts. Both when not plugged
in so I know the battery is still good and taking a charge.

So the HD is spinning. That's a start. (Unfortunately, a lot of the ways
they can go wrong don't involve the motor.)
[]
I don't know how to safely connect it to the desktop machine. The HDs are


If you mean physically, that's not a problem: desktop machines tend to
use 3.5" drives, laptops 2.5" ones (the figure refers to the diameter of
the actual platters inside the drive); making smaller hardware is more
difficult, so the manufacturers continue to make both sizes - obviously
space is limited in a laptop, so they have the smaller ones. Much larger
_capacities_ (currently, say, 3T and above) tend to only be available in
the 3.5" (desktop) size. Functionally, both are the same, and a computer
doesn't know whether it's using a 2.5" or a 3.5" drive.

See lower down for how to connect to the desktop.

very different sizes. And now with the W-10 forced updates, loss of OE6
because of them and my daughter complaining her favorite game is messed up
on the new HP laptop since the update, this W-7 is all that much more
valuable to me.

Ah, daughter's favourite game: that's important!
[]
There are two connecters to the HD in the Toshiba. I have no idea what I'm


I presume that's - looking at the drive when removed - one with about 7
fingers (that's the data one), and one with about 15 (power), each with
an L-shaped plastic guide around them.

doing when it comes to the hardware.

Inside the desktop machine, does its own hard drive also have two small
connectors, or a wide ribbon cable with about 40 wires? Or, does its
CD/DVD drive? If both of those are connected with wide ribbon cables,
read no further, as we'll have to use the USB route (which isn't
difficult).

If the desktop machine's own hard drive or CD/DVD drive has the same two
connectors, we're getting somewhere. Follow the cables to see where they
come from. The larger one will come from the power supply (big box at
one end of the case, where the power lead goes in); the smaller one will
go to the motherboard (main large board in the computer). [You probably
know those, but I'm describing in case not, and for anyone else reading
this thread who might not.]

To connect the drive, taken from the laptop, to the desktop:

EITHER:
Power (the larger one): look around in the case: hopefully, there'll be
a spare power connector (coming from the power supply, obviously, though
may be piggy-backed on other devices) that will fit the power connector
on the laptop drive. If there isn't, but there's one of the old Molex
four-large-sockets-in-nylon type, you'll need an adaptor.

Data (the smaller one): look at where the data cable from the existing
hard drive and/or CD/DVD drive goes into the motherboard; there should
be similar connectors nearby. Most SATA-capable motherboards have lots
of them - at least six seems to be common. They often come in pairs, in
the same plastic moulding. You need to connect the drive to one of those
- you'd probably need a SATA cable, unless the assemblers have been
_very_ generous and left you a spare.

OR:
If the CD/DVD drive is SATA (two small connectors rather than a wide
ribbon one), just disconnect those from the CD/DVD drive, and connect
them to the laptop drive. (Do so with the computer turned off!)



I'll stop there for now. The next question _would_ be **Q4** when the
desktop machine has booted (or does it boot?), does it see an extra drive,
and **Q5** can you look at what's on it. But I'll leave that until we have
the answer to Q3, as if you don't have a SATA connection to test it on
(assuming it _is_ a SATA drive), we'll have to go the USB route.


I have zero computer parts on hand. I wouldn't know what I would need to
connect it to the DT or even where to try to connect it. It's a HP Pavilion
P7-1003W.

[]
Well, as you'll see from above, you'd need a SATA cable and possibly a
power adapter cable, both of which should be cheap enough - or, if the
CD/DVD drive is SATA, which they mostly are these days, you won't need
_anything_.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

computers don't solve problems; they help humans solve problems - Colin Barker,
Computing 1999-2-18, p. 21
  #44  
Old March 14th 18, 01:57 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
J. P. Gilliver (John)[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,679
Default Toshiba W-7 went dark

In message , HB writes:

"Paul" wrote in message
news

[]
After the flashing "_" appears in the upper left
hand corner of an otherwise black screen, is the
OS booting. At that point, some of the older OSes


I think we've established that it isn't.

would accept pressing of F8 to enter the
Safe Mode OS menu.


That didn't work. No menu. No choice of Safe Mode.

[]
On the modern OSes, you can use BCDEdit from the
OS installer DVD or from the emergency boot CD,
use the Command Prompt window there, to set a BCD
option to cause the machine to stop at the
Safe Mode screen.


This Toshiba was given to me with nothing - no CD and no emergency boot
disc.

That's normal, and has been for quite a long time. Usually on first use,
it would have suggested you make some sort of recovery discs, and told
you how to do so, but most users turn off those nags after a while.
Since you weren't the first user, you never saw those nags.
[]
I have no discs for the computer. I didn't get any with the last few NEW
computers I bought either. Discs seem to be a thing of the past. The last
disc I got with a PC was for WXP years ago.

You were lucky! I didn't with my XP machine. I think supply of CDs with
computers started to die out in the '98/'95 era.
[]
HP Pavillian.


Pavilion I suspect (-:
[]
I don't know why you're heading to Safe Mode, what you have
in mind, but that's an example of doing it.



I wanted to get into SM to do a system recovery so the black screen of death
didn't occur again. How do I do that with no discs? F8 doesn't bring up
Advanced Boot Options anymore.

[]
You're assuming F8 works and I can get to that menu when I cannot or I would
not be here. I could have done the System Restore and that would have been
the end of it. F8 doesn't bring up Advanced Boot Options anymore and there
are no discs that came with the Toshiba. How do I get that menu to come up
when F8 doesn't do it and there are no discs?


As you've discovered the hard way, System Restore is no protection
against hard disc failure, and little protection against important file
corruption - because the computer needs to be able to boot up to the
point where you can invoke Safe Mode at least, in order to _do_ a System
Restore. While System Restore _is_ more use than some here think, you
really need to be creating an image (on an external disc, or DVDs
[lots!] or memory stick) of your important partitions, using something
like Macrium or Acronis (both are free, as are others) - and also making
the CD that those can make, so you can boot from that CD in order to
restore the image. But we'll get to that much later - we've got to get
you back to a working system first!
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Illinc fui et illud feci, habe tunicam?
  #45  
Old March 14th 18, 02:23 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
J. P. Gilliver (John)[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,679
Default Toshiba W-7 went dark

Read all the way through - try not to glaze (-:

In message , HB writes:
[]
They all have CD drives except the Tablet. Do I just download this Linux,
burn it to a CD or DVD and then try to boot the Toshiba with it? Just put


Yes. The burning to a CD stage involves the "burn from ISO image" option
of your burning software, not just writing the file to a DVD; tell us
what burning software you're using - in some, selecting that option is
obvious, in some less so. If you're not sure about this, ask (telling us
what burning software you use) and we'll help; if necessary, we'll
recommend suitable free burning software. (The most popular seems to be
ImgBurn, version 2.5.8.0 or 2.5.7.0 [later versions have junk bundled
with them], which can be got from repositories like oldversion.com -
http://www.oldversion.com/windows/imgburn-2-5-7-0 .)

it in the tray and.....? At what point does the CD go into the tray? That


Ideally, before you turn on the computer. Since you'll need it on to
eject the tray (unless you use the paperclip method), turn it on, press
the eject button, turn it off.

wont mess up the windows files already on the HD?

Just booting the Linux shouldn't. Things you do while _in_ the Linux
may, but only deliberate actions - and after all, assuming the HD
doesn't have a hardware fault, we're going to have to tweak files on it
anyway.

Note that booting the Linux from CD will be slow, as with booting any OS
from CD, compared to what you're used to booting Windows from HD. [I
haven't played with a Linux for a very long time, but I can't imagine
this will have changed!]
[]
I really think examining the HD using another (Windows) machine will be
easier for you, than learning how to use Linux if you haven't before -
but, this is probably the _cheapest_ option, as it would only cost a
blank DVD, rather than a couple of cheap cables. (Though there is a
cost-free method, if the desktop machine's CD/DVD is SATA; see my
previous post.)

Another alternative would be to make a Windows 7 DVD (see one of Paul's
posts), and boot from that, to get at the recovery console.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Illinc fui et illud feci, habe tunicam?
 




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