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#31
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Toshiba W-7 went dark
On 12/03/2018 21:26, HB wrote:
"Java Jive" wrote in message whereas I think your other half meant just the hard drive, assuming it was dead, did she not? This is a standard way of preventing personal data being retrieved from binned HDs. Personally, I use a lump hammer and a cold chisel on a concrete floor or step. Yes, that's what she meant. Destroy the HD. Thought as much, but let's make sure that it really is dead before we perform the last rites ... But is the HD really dead, or has it just got corrupted ... It's not dead as it brought up technical screens when tapping F8 or F2. It ran fine with the battery not charged and plugged in. No, the technical screens come from the BIOS, which is *usually* a chip on the motherboard, not written to the HD. { Hopefully irrelevant historical note: Having said that, about 15-20 years ago I encountered some Dell desktops where some of the BIOS functions were combined with some Dell system recovery functions on a hidden first partition of the HD, and if, as was the firm's policy, you wiped the HD before putting the firm's standard build on it, you lost that partition and thereby the ability to enter the useful BIOS interactive GUI. I presume some BIOS functionality must have remained, because otherwise the PCs could not have got as far as booting the OS, but the BIOS GUI was definitely missing. Consequently, I rewrote the scripts to leave the hidden partition in place. } On the back it just says Satellite followed by numbers. I don't know which numbers would be relevant. This is the 1st number. C655D (or 0) S5063 system unit. I would suggest going to Toshiba's site and comparing what you have with pictures of other models and their given designations one of which will probably be close to the above. When dealing with problems or buying spares, it is *nearly always important* to know exactly what it is that you have. This was given to us by a realtive. She said it was too slow and wanted a better faster newer laptop. I'm afraid that you must learn what is useful information and what is not - the above is not. What would be useful is for you to find the exact model number by comparing what you have with information from Toshiba's website. I could usually get rid of problems like this by accessing safe mode and doing as System Recovery or Restore. But nothing led to safe mode. What you are referring to as 'Safe Mode' is part of Windows, which you will only reach if the HD is working. You need to get your head around how a PC boots. The processor in a PC is built in such a way that on receiving power it goes to a particular place in its memory to begin execution of whatever instructions it finds there. These instructions are part of the Basic Input Output System (the BIOS that we keep mentioning). The BIOS performs some self-diagnostic tests, then if these are satisfactory it searches any attached media - hard disk, CD/DVD, or USB stick, in an order that is settable within the BIOS - for an Operating System (OS) to run. Usually, as in your case, it finds an OS on the first partition of the only HD, and, again as in your case, it is often Windows. There is more detail on another page on my site that describes this process: http://www.macfh.co.uk/JavaJive/PCHa...otProcess.html Whether or not you choose to understand the details above, the important consequence is that, if the HD has gone down, the PC can never find an OS to run, and can never offer you Windows 'Safe Mode'. I'll do some Googling again and see if I find anything helpful. I'm sure a tech would have found those screens that came up helpful. To me they may as well have been in Chinese. BUT the fact that you have got into the BIOS at all does suggest that most of the PC is functioning, and in itself that is encouraging. Next we have to find out which part of the PC is broken, and, from what we know so far, the hard disk does seem a likely culprit, but it would be premature to *assume* that at this stage. More generally, when reading technical stuff that is unfamiliar to you, it's important to resist developing the habit of going into either panic or glaze mode. Although officially I'm now retired, I've just spent three days at a legacy client's configuring a cloud phone system, something which I've never done before, and I did it successfully because I did it step by step, trying to understand one thing at a time. You have to be prepared to invest some time and effort in studying and trying to understand what needs to be understood. If the laptop can boot from a USB stick, then download an Ubuntu or other Linux distro - make sure you get a suitable one, 32-bit or 64-bit as appropriate - install it on a 2GB or larger USB stick, depending on the size of the download, and see what messages Linux generates as it tries to boot the PC. This may give you some useful pointers to a hardware fault. If the PC boots from the stick, then you should see your hard disk partition(s) as clickable icons down the left hand side menu (in Ubuntu, other distros may be different, for example the icons may be on the desktop). Try this and come back to us with a description of what happens, particularly whether the PC boots at all, whether Linux lets see your HD at all, and even the contents of it. OK.. will do. Have you tried this yet? If the PC can boot from a USB stick, then hopefully all that is wrong is the HD, so then we would have to see if it can be retrieved as a whole, or at least if your data can be retrieved from it. IMPORTANT NOTE: You may have to master an understanding of the BIOS sufficient to set the boot order so as to ensure that the PC will try to boot from a USB stick, if one is present. If that is beyond you, burn the Linux distro to a CD or DVD instead, and see if the PC will boot from that. |
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#32
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Toshiba W-7 went dark
HB wrote:
You could run a Linux from the CD/DVD drive, which would IMO would merely confirm that the HDD is bad. Booting a Linux LiveCD confirms it's a computer and that it mostly works. The speed with which it boots, is also a testament to the performance level. The fact it's got an InsydeH2O BIOS tells me it's a relatively new machine (it would be about the same as my [gifted] laptop from a relative), and mine runs fine with Win7 or Win10 on it. Once the machine boots with a DVD like that, a machine of that vintage can also boot from a USB stick. The current generation of DVDs for Linux, you can "dd" them right onto a USB stick and boot from it. USB sticks boot faster than DVDs, because there is little (1 millisecond) seek time, compared to 110 milliseconds to move the heads on a DVD drive. The purpose of booting the first time with a DVD, is just to see everything works well enough to boot. But you can also easily download a Linux ISO and use "dd" to transfer it to a USB stick. And skip the DVD stage altogether. The downloads might be on the order of 1.5GB or so. You can use the public library Internet to download, if your home Internet isn't suited to this. http://mirror.csclub.uwaterloo.ca/li...xfce-32bit.iso This is a port of "dd" for Windows, called dd.exe . http://www.chrysocome.net/dd On your working computer (where you will be downloading and preparing a USB stick), you run commands like this from an Administrator (elevated) Command Prompt window. cd /d %userprofile%\Downloads dir dd.exe linuxmint-17.1-xfce-32bit.iso === prove the files are where they're supposed to be. The commands won't run unless you can see the files now. dd --list === this dumps names for the drives on the system === the order is the same order as Disk Management === do *not* issue the next command unless you are sure you understand where the USB stick is in the namespace. The Harddisk2 in the next command is an example, and might not be what yours needs. "dd" could ruin the OS drive, if "mis-aimed". "dd" is *destructive*, use with care. dd if=linuxmint-17.1-xfce-32bit.iso of=\\?\Device\Harddisk2\Partition0 This technique works for any modern Linux distro that offers what are called "hybrid discs". The ISO image has more than one file system overlaid, and also has multiple partitions, which support both legacy BIOS and UEFI BIOS booting. Since the laptop is relatively modern, it's likely to have enough RAM to boot Linux. Older machines, we'd have to be a lot more careful. When I booted up a TUV4X here, with an S370 socket processor in it, I had to put the max possible RAM in it (3x512MB) to make lots of room to run a browser and so on :-) In terms of speed, there isn't too much difference between Linux and Windows. And part of this is due to ancient video hardware in the machines, not providing the "acceleration" the desktop needs. The software then "leans on the CPU" to make up the difference. The root cause, is the assumption that all computers have good graphics. Then when modern OSes run on crummy graphics, they end up a lot slower because of this "bad assumption". Summary : the above is some fun you can have with an old computer you'd otherwise just dump in the garbage... You'll need a USB stick, at least 4GB in size, to hold the relatively small ISO file, if you want to boot from USB. Walmart usually has 32GB sticks for around $20 or so, if you don't have a pile of USB sticks sitting around for this. This style of usage, doesn't allow that particular USB stick, to be used to store other (random) files. The stick must be erased before being reused for other purposes (dd can erase it too, by writing zeros over part of it). ******* When Linux is running, you can use "smartmontools" to list the health info for the hard drive. sudo smartctl -a /dev/sdc ID# ATTRIBUTE_NAME FLAG VALUE WORST THRESH TYPE UPDATED WHEN_FAILED RAW_VALUE 5 Reallocated_Sector_Ct 0x0033 092 092 036 Pre-fail Always - 334 Normally, the value of that one is 0, but my sample disk is a bit sick, and the life has dropped from 100 to 92. The drive is "dead" if the value field hits 36 (same as Threshold). It won't really be dead, but it'll be pretty damn slow. This shows the service history of that sample disk, showing it's going bad, but it's decided to go bad very slowly. My purpose in showing this table, is to show how all the columns function as the errors grow. Some drives use a normalized value of 200 instead of 100, and they do that just to annoy people :-) Current Worst Threshold Data Status Reallocated Sector Count 100 100 36 0 OK \ Reallocated Sector Count 100 100 36 57 OK \___ These grew in Reallocated Sector Count 98 98 36 104 OK / a couple days Reallocated Sector Count 92 92 36 334 OK ----- Two years later... The smartctl program doesn't offer a lot of editorial comments, nor does it pass judgment as such (it'll say a sick drive is "OK"). Which is a shame, as end-users need advice, but it's also safer for the developer to not "over-stretch" their area of expertise. SMART isn't a wonderful system, but it's all we've got, when figuring out if a hard drive is sick or not. It's better than nothing. It's better than a coin toss. I stopped regularly using that hard drive, when it hit 104 errors, but that was because the error rate increase was looking pretty bad. This is a picture of the that hard drive, in real life. https://s13.postimg.org/k41aqxntj/re...ting_drive.gif Paul |
#33
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Toshiba W-7 went dark
On 13/03/2018 02:00, HB wrote:
"Patrick" wrote in message news On 10/03/2018 07:15, HB wrote: When it rains it pours. The Toshiba LP W-7 64 went dark. It was fine, was shut off and when I hit the On button a few days later, just a black screen with a blinking " - " in the upper left-hand corner. Tapping the F8 is supposed to bring up Safe Mode (as per Google) but instead up came a screen to do a memory scan. After it finished I tried again and it came up with 6 tabs of technical info that's alien to me. None of the tabs were for Safe Mode. I had no way to know what to do on any of the screens. Anyone know how to get Safe Mode to come up on a Toshiba W-7? Where do I go from here? The LP actually gets little use and is like new. I hate to recycle it. I noticed a few days before that the battery wasn't charging. Since it was almost always used plugged in, it didn't matter. Does this look like the LapTop that you are refering to; https://support.toshiba.com/support/...eeText=2743964 This looks like it. Please see my reply to VanguardLH of 9:54 above. Does this possibly ring a bell? (I havn't been right through it myself yet); https://www.justanswer.com/computer/...p-utility.html https://tinyurl.com/y9uku7nx |
#34
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Toshiba W-7 went dark
Please read and answer all - I know I tend to be wordy (as do most here
who are trying to help), but most questions I answer here are simple yes-no answers, and they'll help us all considerably to help you. There are only about three questions - in fact I'll number them **thus**. In message , HB writes: "J. P. Gilliver (John)" wrote in message ... [] _Does_ the poorly PC have a separate panel on the bottom that can be removed to get at the hard drive? I already removed it and made sure it went back in OK. [] OK, so that's eliminated one source of the problem. It wasn't _that_ likely, just it was easy to check. (Though I have had a machine where it does slide out of contact occasionally!) **Q1** Can you tell, by powering up and down with a finger on the drive (or your ear close to it), whether it is actually spinning up? Not that if you can't this proves that it isn't - some modern drives are very quiet and vibration-free. But it's worth a try as it's easy to do. And if it is, that still doesn't mean that it's working, just that it isn't stuck and the motor runs. [If you can be _sure_ that it _isn't_ spinning, you've _probably_ found the problem: I _suppose_ it _could_ be that the motherboard isn't telling it to spin or providing power to it, but that's rare.] Since you can get it out easily enough, the next stage is to do so and connect it to another computer (obviously you _have_ another computer as you're talking to us!) and see if _that_ can see it - ideally direct rather than via USB, as you'd be able to do more thorough tests, but via USB is better than nothing. Direct would likely to be a desktop machine, as few laptops have provision for more than one drive. (_Don't_ fit it in place of the _only_ drive in another machine - that would likely cause problems!) **Q2** I _presume_, since it's 250G and someone said the BIOS suggests it's a modern-ish laptop anyway, that it's a SATA drive (two short connectors with L-shaped alignment guides, rather than one long two row connector). **Q3** _Do_ you have a suitable desktop machine with suitable extra ports to try it in? You might have to buy a SATA cable (and if unlucky a power adapter cable too: for SATA, the power is on the larger connector, and you _may_ only have the old four-pin connectors spare). Or, if the desktop has a SATA DVD/CD drive, you could temporarily borrow the connections from that. I'll stop there for now. The next question _would_ be **Q4** when the desktop machine has booted (or does it boot?), does it see an extra drive, and **Q5** can you look at what's on it. But I'll leave that until we have the answer to Q3, as if you don't have a SATA connection to test it on (assuming it _is_ a SATA drive), we'll have to go the USB route. -- J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf "There are a great many people in the country today who, through no fault of their own, are sane." - Monty Python's Flying Circus |
#35
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Toshiba W-7 went dark
In message , Wolf K
writes: [] As Vanguard says, either Windows is messed up somehow, or else the HDD is messed up somehow. Either way, Windows isn't being loaded. The boot stops before it loads Windows. I don't know which is more likely on your case, but IMO it's the HDD. I'm afraid that all you can do at this point is a couple more diagnostic tests, such as booting Linux (another operating system) from the CD/DVD drive. You'd have to ask a friend to download Linux and burn it it to a DVD. He wouldn't have to ask a friend: he's obviously got another computer, as he's talking to us. (OK, we might or might not have to talk him through burning from an ISO, but that's trivial.) Assuming his other computer has a DVD burner that is. (Though even one of the old Linuces that will fit on a CD would probably serve our needs here.) But the bottom line IMO is that you can't do anything to fix this machine. A tech can probably fix it, but it's up to you to decide whether it's worth the price. I wouldn't go that far yet! Let's establish whether it's a faulty HD, or just file corruption, first. I haven't seen anything yet to indicate there's anything wrong with the machine that isn't just one of those two (though it is possible). More explanation of what you are seeing when you try to boot the machine: You are seeing the BIOS config screen. Windows is not starting at all. BIOS = "basic Input Output System". It's a small program that's built Or built-in operating system. [] Good luck and best wishes, From me too. I think HB is capable of doing more for himself, with perhaps guidance from us where necessary, than some here think (-: -- J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf Veni Vidi Vacuum [I came, I saw, It sucked] - , 1998 |
#36
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Toshiba W-7 went dark
In message , HB writes:
"VanguardLH" wrote in message ... HB wrote: VanguardLH wrote ... [] Doesn't the laptop's own boot screen offer a choice to hit a special key or key combo the restore the computer to factory-time setup? No. Don't worry: the option to restore to factory settings *from the BIOS boot screen* isn't common. (I don't think _I_ have ever seen it, though from what some have said here some Dells might have it - though as they described it, that'd still need a working HD.) [] When I chose HDD I got this: "A disk read error occured. Press Ctrl+alt+Del Does _sound_ like the HD isn't well. (Though _could_ still be boot sector [part of the disc] corruption, which is fixable.) to restart." Did that and got the blank screen with the blinking - in the corner. BTW, thought the battery was supposedly dead, not charging, the PC still starts when unplugged. These screens appear and I can hear the HD come to life. So I don't think that info was correct it was showing before going dark. There is life in it. Good to know. And sorry, I didn't register what you said the ignore my **Q1** in my last post, as you've told us you can hear the HD spin up. (As long as you're sure it was/is the HD not the fan, that is!) [] So I can't get any further. I have no bootable emergency discs. They were lost in the move. Maybe it doesn't matter because they didn't work on the 2 Not having them isn't a _huge_ problem - you can _make_ them on the PC you're talking to us on, assuming it has a suitable burner drive. They might not be the exact right ones for the poorly PC, but we should be able to get somewhere using them. BUT, since you can easily take out the HD, diagnosing it on another PC (and possibly even repairing it there, if the problem _is_ only file corruption) is probably an easier first thing to do. PCs I had in the past with this same problem. A PC gets turned on and all that appeared would be a blank screen with the blinker. Now when I see this blinker in the upper left hand corner, I feel it's most likely the death of that PC. We don't give up that easily (-: -- J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf Veni Vidi Vacuum [I came, I saw, It sucked] - , 1998 |
#37
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Toshiba W-7 went dark
HB wrote:
When I chose HDD I got this: "A disk read error occured. Press Ctrl+alt+Del to restart." Did that and got the blank screen with the blinking - in the Since you gave no mention of the model number, it is possible what I happened to find doing a vague search does not apply to your particular model. You need to get the model number and do searches on "toshiba model recovery" to find articles that match on your model. You seem unable to interpret the underside label on the laptop case. Take a photo of it, upload to online storage, give a URL to that photo, and let others see what model you have. Until then, I can only find Toshiba instructions on some of their models saying how to perform a recovery [re]install of the factory-time image onto the HDD.' Did I miss where you removed the HDD and then determined how far the laptop will boot? You could also record the boot sequence using your smartphone (assuming you have one) or a digital camera (another assumption) to upload it so we can see what is happening during the boot sequence. Also, you already found out how to get into the BIOS config screens. From your description, it appears it came configured to show a splash screen on boot. That gets in the way of seeing what is happening during the boot sequence. Go into the BIOS to disable the splash screen. Then you can see the POST screen and what shows up afterward. Again, with the model number, there's no way to lookup what the boot sequence should look like on your particular model. |
#38
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Toshiba W-7 went dark
"J. P. Gilliver (John)" wrote in message ... Please read and answer all - I know I tend to be wordy (as do most here who are trying to help), but most questions I answer here are simple yes-no answers, and they'll help us all considerably to help you. There are only about three questions - in fact I'll number them **thus**. In message , HB writes: "J. P. Gilliver (John)" wrote in message ... [] _Does_ the poorly PC have a separate panel on the bottom that can be removed to get at the hard drive? I already removed it and made sure it went back in OK. [] OK, so that's eliminated one source of the problem. It wasn't _that_ likely, just it was easy to check. (Though I have had a machine where it does slide out of contact occasionally!) **Q1** Can you tell, by powering up and down with a finger on the drive (or your ear close to it), whether it is actually spinning up? Not that if you can't this proves that it isn't - some modern drives are very quiet and vibration-free. But it's worth a try as it's easy to do. And if it is, that still doesn't mean that it's working, just that it isn't stuck and the motor runs. I can hear it spin up an when the cooling fan starts. Both when not plugged in so I know the battery is still good and taking a charge. [If you can be _sure_ that it _isn't_ spinning, you've _probably_ found the problem: I _suppose_ it _could_ be that the motherboard isn't telling it to spin or providing power to it, but that's rare.] Since you can get it out easily enough, the next stage is to do so and connect it to another computer (obviously you _have_ another computer as you're talking to us!) and see if _that_ can see it - ideally direct rather than via USB, as you'd be able to do more thorough tests, but via USB is better than nothing. Direct would likely to be a desktop machine, as few laptops have provision for more than one drive. (_Don't_ fit it in place of the _only_ drive in another machine - that would likely cause problems!) I don't know how to safely connect it to the desktop machine. The HDs are very different sizes. And now with the W-10 forced updates, loss of OE6 because of them and my daughter complaining her favorite game is messed up on the new HP laptop since the update, this W-7 is all that much more valuable to me. **Q2** I _presume_, since it's 250G and someone said the BIOS suggests it's a modern-ish laptop anyway, that it's a SATA drive (two short connectors with L-shaped alignment guides, rather than one long two row connector). **Q3** _Do_ you have a suitable desktop machine with suitable extra ports to try it in? You might have to buy a SATA cable (and if unlucky a power adapter cable too: for SATA, the power is on the larger connector, and you _may_ only have the old four-pin connectors spare). Or, if the desktop has a SATA DVD/CD drive, you could temporarily borrow the connections from that. There are two connecters to the HD in the Toshiba. I have no idea what I'm doing when it comes to the hardware. I'll stop there for now. The next question _would_ be **Q4** when the desktop machine has booted (or does it boot?), does it see an extra drive, and **Q5** can you look at what's on it. But I'll leave that until we have the answer to Q3, as if you don't have a SATA connection to test it on (assuming it _is_ a SATA drive), we'll have to go the USB route. I have zero computer parts on hand. I wouldn't know what I would need to connect it to the DT or even where to try to connect it. It's a HP Pavilion P7-1003W. -- J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf "There are a great many people in the country today who, through no fault of their own, are sane." - Monty Python's Flying Circus |
#39
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Toshiba W-7 went dark
"Paul" wrote in message news HB wrote: "Wolf K" wrote in message f8 or f2 access BIOS, _not_ the HD. Can you copy (by hand, I guss) and post the technical messages? That would be helpful. It says "InsydeH20setup utility" at the top of the screen. There are too many. 6 tabs on one screen. Text on each tab. None mention Safe Mode or system recovery. Example. On the Avanced tab it says: Boot Speed. Boot sound. USB Legacy Emulation. System Configuration. These are images that I found of what I'm seeing for the most part. They're the closest but not exactly the same. https://www.google.com/search?q=Insy...w=1408&bih=625 I'm going by what I found on the net. None of the F keys brings up the screen I'm familiar with where Safe Mode is a choice. The online info says to tap F8 as the PC comes on but all that gets me is a black screen and a annoying beeping sound when a key is pressed. InsydeH20 is a *BIOS* company. Pressing F2 or F8 or F12 early after the power comes on, caused you to drop into the BIOS. After the flashing "_" appears in the upper left hand corner of an otherwise black screen, is the OS booting. At that point, some of the older OSes would accept pressing of F8 to enter the Safe Mode OS menu. That didn't work. No menu. No choice of Safe Mode. The timing of the key press is critical. On a machine with a BIOS which happens to use F8, you will end up in the BIOS if your timing is not perfect. And if you're late during the OS boot phase, the OS will (attempt) to boot in regular mode. On the modern OSes, you can use BCDEdit from the OS installer DVD or from the emergency boot CD, use the Command Prompt window there, to set a BCD option to cause the machine to stop at the Safe Mode screen. This Toshiba was given to me with nothing - no CD and no emergency boot disc. However, if the booting bits of your OS are corrupted, it might never even get a chance to consider your presses of F8, or your entreaty via the BCD, to stop at the Safe Mode screen. ******* As an example: 1) Boot the computer using the Windows 7 SP1 installer DVD. Select the troubleshooting options, rather than anything related to installation. That might require accepting the "language" screen when it comes up, but after that, there should be a button for Troubleshooting. This gives a Command Prompt window. I have no discs for the computer. I didn't get any with the last few NEW computers I bought either. Discs seem to be a thing of the past. The last disc I got with a PC was for WXP years ago. 2) Look at Option 3 here. https://www.sevenforums.com/tutorial...safe-mode.html bcdedit # review the details # sometimes a refusal to boot is # caused by a blank entry for a volume bcdedit /set {current} safeboot minimal # Add the entry to BCD bcdedit # Verify it looks correct HP Pavillian. 3) Type "exit" in Command Prompt or close the window, then allow the machine to boot to the hard drive. I don't know why you're heading to Safe Mode, what you have in mind, but that's an example of doing it. I wanted to get into SM to do a system recovery so the black screen of death didn't occur again. How do I do that with no discs? F8 doesn't bring up Advanced Boot Options anymore. To remove it later, you can repeat the above approach from a Windows Administrator (elevated) Command Prompt window. bcdedit # review the details # Make sure the menu item is in "Current" bcdedit /deletevalue {current} safeboot Some of the BCD options can also be neutered by "/set" to a benign value, and then you don't even need to deletevalue to switch them off. BCD also has options where it has Booleans, and True and False are synonyms for Yes and No. The nice thing about BCDEdit, is a hell of a lot of nice examples have been written and documented since Vista came out. And working with the BCD (from an emergency boot CD or from an installer DVD), no longer has to be "mysterious". The sevenforums site has recipes. Not all the recipes are "most useful", and the reason I selected the Option 3 from the above one, is a lot of what we do here is "emergency" edits, where the user can no longer use the regular OS to edit stuff. You can do offline edits (edit the BCD on other drives in the computer), using the /store option. bcdedit /store C:\boot\BCD /set {bootmgr} displaybootmenu True When you do stuff like that, it's up to you to use the "dir" command to actually verify the drive lettering, since drives get different lettering in virtually every environment you work in. That particular command there, happens to be a favorite of mine, because it adds a "WinXP style black boot menu" to OSes like Windows 10 :-) Just ignoring the two OS boot choices here, there *is* a row on the screen that says to "press F8", so this menu just happens to give you access to all the Safe Mode options. I want this window for the "press F8" option, not because the OS boot choices look pretty or something. This is how I get to Safe Mode. The black screen sits there for 30 seconds, giving plenty of time to make a single press of F8. https://www.tenforums.com/tutorials/...dows-10-a.html bcdedit /store C:\boot\BCD /set {bootmgr} displaybootmenu True # booted from emergency CD bcdedit /set {bootmgr} displaybootmenu True # From regular OS cmd.exe HTH, Paul You're assuming F8 works and I can get to that menu when I cannot or I would not be here. I could have done the System Restore and that would have been the end of it. F8 doesn't bring up Advanced Boot Options anymore and there are no discs that came with the Toshiba. How do I get that menu to come up when F8 doesn't do it and there are no discs? |
#40
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Toshiba W-7 went dark
"J. P. Gilliver (John)" wrote in message ... In message , Wolf K writes: [] As Vanguard says, either Windows is messed up somehow, or else the HDD is messed up somehow. Either way, Windows isn't being loaded. The boot stops before it loads Windows. I don't know which is more likely on your case, but IMO it's the HDD. I'm afraid that all you can do at this point is a couple more diagnostic tests, such as booting Linux (another operating system) from the CD/DVD drive. You'd have to ask a friend to download Linux and burn it it to a DVD. He wouldn't have to ask a friend: he's obviously got another computer, as he's talking to us. (OK, we might or might not have to talk him through burning from an ISO, but that's trivial.) Assuming his other computer has a DVD burner that is. (Though even one of the old Linuces that will fit on a CD would probably serve our needs here.) They all have CD drives except the Tablet. Do I just download this Linux, burn it to a CD or DVD and then try to boot the Toshiba with it? Just put it in the tray and.....? At what point does the CD go into the tray? That wont mess up the windows files already on the HD? But the bottom line IMO is that you can't do anything to fix this machine. A tech can probably fix it, but it's up to you to decide whether it's worth the price. I wouldn't go that far yet! Let's establish whether it's a faulty HD, or just file corruption, first. I haven't seen anything yet to indicate there's anything wrong with the machine that isn't just one of those two (though it is possible). More explanation of what you are seeing when you try to boot the machine: You are seeing the BIOS config screen. Windows is not starting at all. BIOS = "basic Input Output System". It's a small program that's built Or built-in operating system. [] Good luck and best wishes, From me too. I think HB is capable of doing more for himself, with perhaps guidance from us where necessary, than some here think (-: -- J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf Veni Vidi Vacuum [I came, I saw, It sucked] - , 1998 |
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Toshiba W-7 went dark
"Java Jive" wrote in message news On 12/03/2018 21:26, HB wrote: "Java Jive" wrote in message whereas I think your other half meant just the hard drive, assuming it was dead, did she not? This is a standard way of preventing personal data being retrieved from binned HDs. Personally, I use a lump hammer and a cold chisel on a concrete floor or step. Yes, that's what she meant. Destroy the HD. Thought as much, but let's make sure that it really is dead before we perform the last rites ... But is the HD really dead, or has it just got corrupted ... It's not dead as it brought up technical screens when tapping F8 or F2. It ran fine with the battery not charged and plugged in. No, the technical screens come from the BIOS, which is *usually* a chip on the motherboard, not written to the HD. I learn something every day. Seriously. { Hopefully irrelevant historical note: Having said that, about 15-20 years ago I encountered some Dell desktops where some of the BIOS functions were combined with some Dell system recovery functions on a hidden first partition of the HD, and if, as was the firm's policy, you wiped the HD before putting the firm's standard build on it, you lost that partition and thereby the ability to enter the useful BIOS interactive GUI. I presume some BIOS functionality must have remained, because otherwise the PCs could not have got as far as booting the OS, but the BIOS GUI was definitely missing. Consequently, I rewrote the scripts to leave the hidden partition in place. } On the back it just says Satellite followed by numbers. I don't know which numbers would be relevant. This is the 1st number. C655D (or 0) S5063 system unit. I would suggest going to Toshiba's site and comparing what you have with pictures of other models and their given designations one of which will probably be close to the above. When dealing with problems or buying spares, it is *nearly always important* to know exactly what it is that you have. This was given to us by a realtive. She said it was too slow and wanted a better faster newer laptop. I'm afraid that you must learn what is useful information and what is ot - the above is not. What would be useful is for you to find the exact model number by comparing what you have with information from Toshiba's website. I could usually get rid of problems like this by accessing safe mode and doing as System Recovery or Restore. But nothing led to safe mode. What you are referring to as 'Safe Mode' is part of Windows, which you will only reach if the HD is working. I hear it spin up and when the PC gets hot the I can hear a fan start. You need to get your head around how a PC boots. The processor in a PC is built in such a way that on receiving power it goes to a particular place in its memory to begin execution of whatever instructions it finds there. These instructions are part of the Basic Input Output System (the BIOS that we keep mentioning). The BIOS performs some self-diagnostic tests, then if these are satisfactory it searches any attached media - hard disk, CD/DVD, or USB stick, in an order that is settable within the IOS - for an Operating System (OS) to run. Usually, as in your case, it finds an OS on the first partition of the only HD, and, again as in your case, it is often Windows. There is more detail on another page on my site that describes this process. http://www.macfh.co.uk/JavaJive/PCHa...ootProcess.htm Interesting and informative. I'll check your site tomorrow. Whether or not you choose to understand the details above, the important consequence is that, if the HD has gone down, the PC can never find an OS to run, and can never offer you Windows 'Safe Mode'. I'll do some Googling again and see if I find anything helpful. I'm sure a tech would have found those screens that came up helpful. To me they may as well have been in Chinese. BUT the fact that you have got into the BIOS at all does suggest that most of the PC is functioning, and in itself that is encouraging. Next we have to find out which part of the PC is broken, and, from what we know so far, the hard disk does seem a likely culprit, but it would be premature to *assume* that at this stage. OK. More generally, when reading technical stuff that is unfamiliar to you, it's important to resist developing the habit of going into either panic or glaze mode. Although officially I'm now retired, I've just spent three days at a legacy client's configuring a cloud phone system, something which I've never done before, and I did it successfully because I did it step by step, trying to understand one thing at a time. You have to be prepared to invest some time and effort in studying and trying to understand what needs to be understood. I agree with you completely. Glaze mode sounds familiar. If the laptop can boot from a USB stick, then download an Ubuntu or other Linux distro - make sure you get a suitable one, 32-bit or 64-bit as appropriate - install it on a 2GB or larger USB stick, depending on the size of the download, and see what messages Linux generates as it tries to boot the PC. This may give you some useful pointers to a hardware fault. If the PC boots from the stick, then you should see your hard disk partition(s) as clickable icons down the left hand side menu (in Ubuntu, other distros may be different, for example the icons may be on the desktop). Try this and come back to us with a description of what happens, particularly whether the PC boots at all, whether Linux lets see your HD at all, and even the contents of it. OK.. will do.OS. Have you tried this yet? If the PC can boot from a USB stick, then hopefully all that is wrong is the HD, so then we would have to see if it can be retrieved as a whole, or at least if your data can be retrieved from it. No, my job and family interfered. I have to stop and pick up a flash drive as the ones I have don't have 2 GB of space left for this Ubantu. I assume I just insert the flash and turn the Toshiba on and see what happens? What's suppose to happen? I know nothing about that OS. Or I can use DVDs. Maybe that's the better choice since there are plenty of them here. That should be handled tomorrow. Too much coffee, not enough sleep. IMPORTANT NOTE: You may have to master an understanding of the BIOS sufficient to set the boot order so as to ensure that the PC will try to boot from a USB stick, if one is present. If that is beyond you, burn the Linux distro to a CD or DVD instead, and see if the PC will boot from that. F2 brought up InsydeH20 Setup Utility. I got the Boot tab where it can be changed from HDD/SSD to FDD, LAN or USB. The battery is still charged as it's not plugged in this time either. |
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Toshiba W-7 went dark
HB wrote:
This Toshiba was given to me with nothing - no CD and no emergency boot disc. The Heidoc URL generator is still down, for obtaining retail Windows 7 SP1 discs. https://www.heidoc.net/joomla/techno...-download-tool It's hard to say whether that designer will be able to get it fixed again. This is the result of running the current version (5.29). https://s13.postimg.org/67kudtklj/heidoc.gif Heidoc doesn't host the ISO files. It merely generates a URL for a microsoft folder that contains the ISO. The URL (like other Microsoft dynamic downloads) is only valid for 24 hours once the URL is generated. The "trick" for getting Windows 7 is broken right now, and who knows whether it can ever be fixed. ******* The second source of ISO files, is DigitalRiver, who is a software seller, and they worked with Microsoft. And their download servers were "open" and people used to get copies of particular Windows 7 SKUs that way. I got a Home Premium x64 for my laptop that way. The DigitalRiver OS server has been closed for several years now. ******* If you have multiple computers, if one of them has a Retail Win7 license key, you can use that with the official Microsoft download page. Say for example, you had a desktop with Win7 Ultimate. Take the license key from that, enter it on this page, and order up a Win7 SP1 Home Premium for your laptop. All you need is one good key, to download any SKU you need for Win7. (You can change the country-code here from en-ca to whatever country you're in. To make things nice and tidy. Like en-us or en-gb and so on.) https://www.microsoft.com/en-ca/soft...nload/windows7 As far as I'm concerned, anyone who has an OS to repair, deserves an ISO to use, and this "license entry" idea is for the birds. We don't want to rely on MSDN-inspired Torrents for our install DVDs, now do we ? :-) ******* It's quite possible the laptop has a restore partition, which could also put the original OS back, whatever that OS might be. It all depends on whether the hard drive was ever replaced at some point, as to whether it's still there. Paul |
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Toshiba W-7 went dark
In message , HB writes:
[] I can hear it spin up an when the cooling fan starts. Both when not plugged in so I know the battery is still good and taking a charge. So the HD is spinning. That's a start. (Unfortunately, a lot of the ways they can go wrong don't involve the motor.) [] I don't know how to safely connect it to the desktop machine. The HDs are If you mean physically, that's not a problem: desktop machines tend to use 3.5" drives, laptops 2.5" ones (the figure refers to the diameter of the actual platters inside the drive); making smaller hardware is more difficult, so the manufacturers continue to make both sizes - obviously space is limited in a laptop, so they have the smaller ones. Much larger _capacities_ (currently, say, 3T and above) tend to only be available in the 3.5" (desktop) size. Functionally, both are the same, and a computer doesn't know whether it's using a 2.5" or a 3.5" drive. See lower down for how to connect to the desktop. very different sizes. And now with the W-10 forced updates, loss of OE6 because of them and my daughter complaining her favorite game is messed up on the new HP laptop since the update, this W-7 is all that much more valuable to me. Ah, daughter's favourite game: that's important! [] There are two connecters to the HD in the Toshiba. I have no idea what I'm I presume that's - looking at the drive when removed - one with about 7 fingers (that's the data one), and one with about 15 (power), each with an L-shaped plastic guide around them. doing when it comes to the hardware. Inside the desktop machine, does its own hard drive also have two small connectors, or a wide ribbon cable with about 40 wires? Or, does its CD/DVD drive? If both of those are connected with wide ribbon cables, read no further, as we'll have to use the USB route (which isn't difficult). If the desktop machine's own hard drive or CD/DVD drive has the same two connectors, we're getting somewhere. Follow the cables to see where they come from. The larger one will come from the power supply (big box at one end of the case, where the power lead goes in); the smaller one will go to the motherboard (main large board in the computer). [You probably know those, but I'm describing in case not, and for anyone else reading this thread who might not.] To connect the drive, taken from the laptop, to the desktop: EITHER: Power (the larger one): look around in the case: hopefully, there'll be a spare power connector (coming from the power supply, obviously, though may be piggy-backed on other devices) that will fit the power connector on the laptop drive. If there isn't, but there's one of the old Molex four-large-sockets-in-nylon type, you'll need an adaptor. Data (the smaller one): look at where the data cable from the existing hard drive and/or CD/DVD drive goes into the motherboard; there should be similar connectors nearby. Most SATA-capable motherboards have lots of them - at least six seems to be common. They often come in pairs, in the same plastic moulding. You need to connect the drive to one of those - you'd probably need a SATA cable, unless the assemblers have been _very_ generous and left you a spare. OR: If the CD/DVD drive is SATA (two small connectors rather than a wide ribbon one), just disconnect those from the CD/DVD drive, and connect them to the laptop drive. (Do so with the computer turned off!) I'll stop there for now. The next question _would_ be **Q4** when the desktop machine has booted (or does it boot?), does it see an extra drive, and **Q5** can you look at what's on it. But I'll leave that until we have the answer to Q3, as if you don't have a SATA connection to test it on (assuming it _is_ a SATA drive), we'll have to go the USB route. I have zero computer parts on hand. I wouldn't know what I would need to connect it to the DT or even where to try to connect it. It's a HP Pavilion P7-1003W. [] Well, as you'll see from above, you'd need a SATA cable and possibly a power adapter cable, both of which should be cheap enough - or, if the CD/DVD drive is SATA, which they mostly are these days, you won't need _anything_. -- J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf computers don't solve problems; they help humans solve problems - Colin Barker, Computing 1999-2-18, p. 21 |
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Toshiba W-7 went dark
In message , HB writes:
"Paul" wrote in message news [] After the flashing "_" appears in the upper left hand corner of an otherwise black screen, is the OS booting. At that point, some of the older OSes I think we've established that it isn't. would accept pressing of F8 to enter the Safe Mode OS menu. That didn't work. No menu. No choice of Safe Mode. [] On the modern OSes, you can use BCDEdit from the OS installer DVD or from the emergency boot CD, use the Command Prompt window there, to set a BCD option to cause the machine to stop at the Safe Mode screen. This Toshiba was given to me with nothing - no CD and no emergency boot disc. That's normal, and has been for quite a long time. Usually on first use, it would have suggested you make some sort of recovery discs, and told you how to do so, but most users turn off those nags after a while. Since you weren't the first user, you never saw those nags. [] I have no discs for the computer. I didn't get any with the last few NEW computers I bought either. Discs seem to be a thing of the past. The last disc I got with a PC was for WXP years ago. You were lucky! I didn't with my XP machine. I think supply of CDs with computers started to die out in the '98/'95 era. [] HP Pavillian. Pavilion I suspect (-: [] I don't know why you're heading to Safe Mode, what you have in mind, but that's an example of doing it. I wanted to get into SM to do a system recovery so the black screen of death didn't occur again. How do I do that with no discs? F8 doesn't bring up Advanced Boot Options anymore. [] You're assuming F8 works and I can get to that menu when I cannot or I would not be here. I could have done the System Restore and that would have been the end of it. F8 doesn't bring up Advanced Boot Options anymore and there are no discs that came with the Toshiba. How do I get that menu to come up when F8 doesn't do it and there are no discs? As you've discovered the hard way, System Restore is no protection against hard disc failure, and little protection against important file corruption - because the computer needs to be able to boot up to the point where you can invoke Safe Mode at least, in order to _do_ a System Restore. While System Restore _is_ more use than some here think, you really need to be creating an image (on an external disc, or DVDs [lots!] or memory stick) of your important partitions, using something like Macrium or Acronis (both are free, as are others) - and also making the CD that those can make, so you can boot from that CD in order to restore the image. But we'll get to that much later - we've got to get you back to a working system first! -- J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf Illinc fui et illud feci, habe tunicam? |
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Toshiba W-7 went dark
Read all the way through - try not to glaze (-:
In message , HB writes: [] They all have CD drives except the Tablet. Do I just download this Linux, burn it to a CD or DVD and then try to boot the Toshiba with it? Just put Yes. The burning to a CD stage involves the "burn from ISO image" option of your burning software, not just writing the file to a DVD; tell us what burning software you're using - in some, selecting that option is obvious, in some less so. If you're not sure about this, ask (telling us what burning software you use) and we'll help; if necessary, we'll recommend suitable free burning software. (The most popular seems to be ImgBurn, version 2.5.8.0 or 2.5.7.0 [later versions have junk bundled with them], which can be got from repositories like oldversion.com - http://www.oldversion.com/windows/imgburn-2-5-7-0 .) it in the tray and.....? At what point does the CD go into the tray? That Ideally, before you turn on the computer. Since you'll need it on to eject the tray (unless you use the paperclip method), turn it on, press the eject button, turn it off. wont mess up the windows files already on the HD? Just booting the Linux shouldn't. Things you do while _in_ the Linux may, but only deliberate actions - and after all, assuming the HD doesn't have a hardware fault, we're going to have to tweak files on it anyway. Note that booting the Linux from CD will be slow, as with booting any OS from CD, compared to what you're used to booting Windows from HD. [I haven't played with a Linux for a very long time, but I can't imagine this will have changed!] [] I really think examining the HD using another (Windows) machine will be easier for you, than learning how to use Linux if you haven't before - but, this is probably the _cheapest_ option, as it would only cost a blank DVD, rather than a couple of cheap cables. (Though there is a cost-free method, if the desktop machine's CD/DVD is SATA; see my previous post.) Another alternative would be to make a Windows 7 DVD (see one of Paul's posts), and boot from that, to get at the recovery console. -- J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf Illinc fui et illud feci, habe tunicam? |
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