Can Adobe Illustrator read in a Microsoft PowerPoint & with fonts?

In message , Ragnusen Ultred
writes:
[]
I must not have been clear, but the document is in PowerPoint, which
[]
And, I guess I wasn't clear, but the shop is using Adobe Illustrator.
[]
So the /only/ influence I have, is in how to get from the starting
point to the ending point. As I said many times, the shop doesn't care,
but they also /manually/ do the layout in Adobe Illustrator.

I'm trying to skip /that/ manual layout stage which will save us labor
time as there are scores of slides in the powerpoint, each one being a
different but very similar sign.
[]
So, really, the only question that needs to be answered, which only
someone who has actually done it can answer, is whether the PDF input
that the Adobe site says it has actually works the way we'd want it to
work.
[]
There's another question you need to be asking, and you need to be
asking the shop - unless you already have: regardless of whether
Illustrator _can_ accept input in any format you supply them, are they
_going_ to do a (possibly unnecessary) "manual layout" stage anyway (and
charge you for it)? If they're going to do it anyway, there's no point
in your continuing to go round in circles here. Another way to rephrase
the question: "What format can I give you that will avoid the manual
layout charge?"

Depending on what sort of relationship you have with the shop, such as
will they let you see them working, I'd be taking just the first sign to
them in a variety of formats - I'd suggest PowerPoint, GIF, and
PDF-with-embedded-font - and asking to see them working with them.
Probably PDF first. as I think that's the _most_ likely to be usable
automatically, followed by GIF.

I can see several possibilities, which are more negotiational than
technical:

1. The shop base their business model on _always_ doing - and charging
for - the layout stage.
2. They _could_ avoid the layout stage and use what you supply, but only
_know_ how to use one particular format (and are ashamed to admit that).
3. There _is_ some minor tweak you could do that would help.

All the discussion here has been based on variations of option 3., but
it sounds to _me_ as if you aren't talking to the shop enough, to
establish whether 2. or 1. is the case. I may be completely wrong in
this, of course.

Have they - e. g. in their published price lists (paper or website) -
provided any indication that they ever _don't_ do the manual layout
stage? Them saying "we accept any format" makes me think they treat all
formats the same as they would a paper copy.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G(AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

The web is a blank slate; you can't design technology that is 'good'. You can't
design paper that you can only write good things on. There are no good or evil
tools. You can put an engine in an ambulance or a tank. - Sir Tim Berners-Lee,
Radio Times 2009-Jan-30 to -Feb-5.

Am Fri, 30 Mar 2018 13:15:03 +0100, schrieb J. P. Gilliver (John):

There's another question you need to be asking, and you need to be
asking the shop - unless you already have: regardless of whether
Illustrator _can_ accept input in any format you supply them, are they
_going_ to do a (possibly unnecessary) "manual layout" stage anyway (and
charge you for it)? If they're going to do it anyway, there's no point
in your continuing to go round in circles here. Another way to rephrase
the question: "What format can I give you that will avoid the manual
layout charge?"

Under normal "commercial" circumstances, this would be a fine question, so
I certainly understand that you're making a relevant suggestion.

The problem is personalities are involved, in that this is a community
effort (hence the use of PowerPoint), and the people doing the printing are
actually one of the families of the residents where that question has been
asked and they keep saying "just give it to us in any format".

So, in actuality, the starting and stopping points are out of my control:
1. Start point is PowerPoint
2. Stopping point is Adobe Illustrator

My only question is what format is *most easily* read directly into Adobe
Illustrator given those are the fixed rigid start and stop points.


Depending on what sort of relationship you have with the shop, such as
will they let you see them working, I'd be taking just the first sign to
them in a variety of formats - I'd suggest PowerPoint, GIF, and
PDF-with-embedded-font - and asking to see them working with them.
Probably PDF first. as I think that's the _most_ likely to be usable
automatically, followed by GIF.

I may need to tell you more than you'll want to know, once you figure out
that this whole situation is a "personality mess", in that the "shop" is
essentially the kids of one of the neighbors on this project.

They're not the most responsive of human beings. I would be killed if they
saw me even asking this question on the net but I doubt any of them have
ever heard of the word Usenet.

It's a community project, with personalized signs, on a specific roadway,
where the signs must look "similar" for decor reasons, but they all say
something different at each property, where what they say is up to the
property owners.

So that explains, in more detail than you need to know, why we used
PowerPoint, because we have a group of non-technical property owners who
were all given the same PowerPoint template, and told to simply modify
their one page to their liking.

I was only given the task of assembling the powerpoint slides from each
neighbor into a single document, and then I was told whom to hand it to.

Those people I hand it to are one of the neighbors on the project, so I
don't get to choose what I call the "shop". I just don't.

I did ask them the question, and they did tell me to just give it to them
in any format that I can, where I'm sure they'd take hand-written pieces of
paper given that they don't seem to care what format it's in.

Having explained that, it's really only *me* who is utterly flabbergasted
that they can't just load a file into Adobe Illustrator to minimize the
setup work.

Nobody else is even noticing that it's extremely wasteful to have them do
that, and, for all they care, it doesn't matter.

So, this wasteful manual setup doesn't matter to the shop. It doesn't
matter to the neighbors. It only matters to me.

I can't understand why I can't just give the shop a file that doesn't need
any setup in Adobe Illustrator.

So that's why I'm asking the question of you.

If you have never sucked in a file from PowerPoint into Adobe Illustrator,
you'll never be able to answer the question, because the question is
clearly specific to Adobe Illustrator and Powerpoint.

I realize that's more than you want to know ... but the fact is that this
*is* really a simple question.

Q: What slide format can Powerpoint output that can be sucked directly into
Adobe Illustrator such that there is the least amount of setup required?

I can see several possibilities, which are more negotiational than
technical:

I hope my explanation above shows why "negotiation" isn't the problem here
since there will be no negotiation. It's just not possible under the
circumstances of keeping a friendly neighborhood friendly.

It's just *me* who has the problem.
Nobody else even *cares* about the problem.

Not the neighbors.
Not the shop.

It's just me who is flabbergasted that we can't technically hand the shop a
file that they can just use.

That technical concept boggles my mind.
Hence my question.

1. The shop base their business model on _always_ doing - and charging
for - the layout stage.
2. They _could_ avoid the layout stage and use what you supply, but only
_know_ how to use one particular format (and are ashamed to admit that).
3. There _is_ some minor tweak you could do that would help.

I actually suspect the shop is incompetent, but that's again completely out
of my control. I don't get to choose the shop.

The only thing I get to choose is what format file I give to the shop.

I can't tell the shop what to do unless I know myself that there is a file
format that powerpoint can output that can *directly* be used by Adobe
Illustrator without any need for manual setup.

I just can't.
I need to be armed with that information *before* I tell the shop anything
of how they should do their business.

There are two dilemmas here, only one of which I can solve.
1. There is a personality dilemma, which I can not solve and I'm not
attempting to solve and which is outside the scope of this newsgroup.
2. There is a simple technical dilemma here, which nobody can solve unless
they've actually done it - because it requires proof of concept, which is
what format can PowerPoint output that Adobe Illustrator can directly use
to print a typical "no parking" style sign.

All the discussion here has been based on variations of option 3., but
it sounds to _me_ as if you aren't talking to the shop enough, to
establish whether 2. or 1. is the case. I may be completely wrong in
this, of course.

You are astute in that the real personal problem is our relationship with
the shop, but that's *not* at all the question here.

The question here is simply a technical question, which is outside the
scope of *any* particular shop.

The technical question is actually pretty simple, but it can only be
answered by someone who has done it, since we all know that file format
conversions suck for the most part, since we're all in our 60s, 70s, and
80s, and we've seen the simplest things fail many times.

The answer to the technical question is all that I seek here.
I do not seek any solution to the personality problem at the shop.
I just can't solve that problem anyway.

The best I can do is tell the shop to suck in format X, and to *directly*
print that format X to the vinyl sheet.

If that technical solution doesn't work - I'm dead.

So I don't want to tell the shop to use it until I know that it actually
works.

Really ... this is just a simple technical question where all your concerns
are perfectly valid if I was making the decisions. But I'm not.

My only role in this endeavor is to assemble the individual signs and then
provide them to the shop.

I just can't fathom why they have to do manual work, so I'd like to know
what to *tell* them to do - but if I'm not right - they'll kill me.

Have they - e. g. in their published price lists (paper or website) -
provided any indication that they ever _don't_ do the manual layout
stage? Them saying "we accept any format" makes me think they treat all
formats the same as they would a paper copy.

I don't think the shop cares about anything, and neither do the neighbors
who are footing the bill together.

It's not really a bill thing, in the end, to me ... but more of a shameful
waste.

The engineer in me *hates* to see people doing anything *manual* when all
we're doing is printing signs to vinyl sheets.

Nobody else on this project even cares about the manual layout.
So of course, the simplest social answer is to just give up.
And I did just give up (on the original set of signs).

But the technical engineer in me is just appalled that any *manual* setup
is required. It's just appalling. What the heck does Adobe Illustrator do
if it can't suck in a file and print it?

Anyway, that's really far more than you want to know, but I have to stop
dancing around the social issue so I said it bluntly (and if any of them
ever get on the Usenet, they'll kill me for telling you all that).

*In the end, there is only one simple technical question being asked:*

Q: What format can PPT output that AI can suck in directly to print
no-parking-style signs to vinyl with the *least* amount of manual setup
required?

In message , Ragnusen Ultred
writes:
[LOTS snipped]
*In the end, there is only one simple technical question being asked:*

Q: What format can PPT output that AI can suck in directly to print
no-parking-style signs to vinyl with the *least* amount of manual setup
required?

Yes, but the simple question - whether "technical" or "social" is fairly
immaterial - "is there _any_ format I can give you that will avoid you
having to do the 'manual layout' stage, or are you going to do that
anyway?" _does_ need asking of the "shop", and I can't see how any
complications of what your relationship with them is should prevent you
asking it. Or, perhaps more simply, "Do you ever _not_ charge for the
'manual layout' stage?" Yes, that's probably a simpler question to ask.

You mentioned that on a previous occasion you were _surprised_ (and I
think a little cross) that they'd charged you for that stage. This
_implied_ that there might be circumstances when they might not, or that
you had _thought_ there were. This needs clarifying before
we/you/they/whoever get into _any_ *technical* discussions.

_Please_ keep your answer short (-:
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Philosophy is questions that may never be answered. Religion is answers that
may never be questioned.

Am Sat, 31 Mar 2018 02:35:14 +0100, schrieb J. P. Gilliver (John):

Yes, but the simple question - whether "technical" or "social" is fairly
immaterial - "is there _any_ format I can give you that will avoid you
having to do the 'manual layout' stage, or are you going to do that
anyway?" _does_ need asking of the "shop", and I can't see how any
complications of what your relationship with them is should prevent you
asking it. Or, perhaps more simply, "Do you ever _not_ charge for the
'manual layout' stage?" Yes, that's probably a simpler question to ask.

You mentioned that on a previous occasion you were _surprised_ (and I
think a little cross) that they'd charged you for that stage. This
_implied_ that there might be circumstances when they might not, or that
you had _thought_ there were. This needs clarifying before
we/you/they/whoever get into _any_ *technical* discussions.

_Please_ keep your answer short (-:

Up until now, I didn't have the software, but Paul provided a link to the
software, so now, for the first time, I can /test/ out the answer.

TEST 1:
I install the free Adobe Illustrator on Windows and I suck in the 12"x18"
PDF from PowerPoint with embedded fonts, and I run the AI CutContour
command plus any other manual layout commands that are forced upon me, and
I output an Adobe Illustrator AI file for each of the score of signs.

TEST 2:
I then try to find out whether *that* Windows AI file can be read directly
into the latest Mac Adobe Illustrator, which I've asked separately here.
Can the latest Mac Adobe Illustrator read in Windows Adobe Illustrator CS2 "ai-format" files?
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/comp.sys.mac.apps/xiJFl-xbD1o

--
Was that short enough, and yet still detailed enough to be correct?

In message , Ragnusen Ultred
writes:
Am Sat, 31 Mar 2018 02:35:14 +0100, schrieb J. P. Gilliver (John):

Yes, but the simple question - whether "technical" or "social" is
fairly immaterial - "is there _any_ format I can give you that will
avoid you having to do the 'manual layout' stage, or are you going to
do that anyway?" _does_ need asking of the "shop", and I can't see
how any complications of what your relationship with them is should
prevent you asking it. Or, perhaps more simply, "Do you ever _not_
charge for the 'manual layout' stage?" Yes, that's probably a simpler
question to ask.
You mentioned that on a previous occasion you were _surprised_ (and
I think a little cross) that they'd charged you for that stage. This
_implied_ that there might be circumstances when they might not, or
that you had _thought_ there were. This needs clarifying before
we/you/they/whoever get into _any_ *technical* discussions.
_Please_ keep your answer short (-:

Up until now, I didn't have the software, but Paul provided a link to the
software, so now, for the first time, I can /test/ out the answer.

TEST 1:
I install the free Adobe Illustrator on Windows and I suck in the 12"x18"
PDF from PowerPoint with embedded fonts, and I run the AI CutContour
command plus any other manual layout commands that are forced upon me, and
I output an Adobe Illustrator AI file for each of the score of signs.

TEST 2:
I then try to find out whether *that* Windows AI file can be read directly
into the latest Mac Adobe Illustrator, which I've asked separately here.
Can the latest Mac Adobe Illustrator read in Windows Adobe Illustrator
CS2 "ai-format" files?
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/comp.sys.mac.apps/xiJFl-xbD1o

--
Was that short enough, and yet still detailed enough to be correct?

You've missed the point. Which is that you need to establish whether
they're going to do the layout stage whatever format you give them, and
charge you for it - or to put it more simply, whether they ever _don't_
charge for that stage (whether needed or not). NOT really a technical
question. If the answer is that they always charge for it regardless of
what they're given, then there's no point in wasting any more of
anyone's time - certainly not ours. And I _don't_ see why the nature of
your relationship with them should affect whether you can ask that
question; certainly if you can't, I'm not going to bother with this
thread any more.

So:
1. Can you ask that question ("do you ever not charge for layout")?
2. *and only if the answer to 1. is yes* "under what circumstance?"

When we know the answers to these, _then_ we can proceed.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

one can't go from `supposed crackpot ideas have been right before' to `we
should
take this latest crackpot idea onboard without making it fight for acceptance
like all the previous ones'. - Richard Caley, 2002 February 11 00:02:28

Am Sat, 31 Mar 2018 10:05:16 +0100, schrieb J. P. Gilliver (John):

You've missed the point. Which is that you need to establish whether
they're going to do the layout stage whatever format you give them, and
charge you for it - or to put it more simply, whether they ever _don't_
charge for that stage (whether needed or not).

I understand your concern, and your objections, and your clarification,
where the /simplest/ way I can say this is that, because of personalities,
asking the shop /anything/ is an exercise in futility.

What I need to do is /understand/ first what /needs/ to be done. Period.

Once I run through the process, I will then /understand/ why /any/ manual
layout would need to be done.

Shop or no shop - that /understanding/ should transcend any shop.

It's really that simple.

NOT really a technical
question. If the answer is that they always charge for it regardless of
what they're given, then there's no point in wasting any more of
anyone's time - certainly not ours.

The /simplest/ way I can say this is to *ignore* the shop completely.

*All that matters is what /must/ be done to get the PPT to VINYL.*

If I knew that, I wouldn't be here.

With the software, I will figure that out on my own, and then this thread
will have solved the problem set completely.

The problem you want me to explain is the mentality of kids, which I am not
qualified to do, since that takes a child psychologist to understand why
the kids in the shop don't care one whit about automation.

They just do /everything/ manually.

And I _don't_ see why the nature of
your relationship with them should affect whether you can ask that
question; certainly if you can't, I'm not going to bother with this
thread any more.

I think the simplest solution is to ignore the shop.

I can tell you that the shop isn't at all concerned with this problem.
They'll take anything.
They don't care.
They will take scrawlings on the back side of a napkin.

They are just kids.
They can barely communicate as it is.

The issue is just that I don't /understand/ why they can't just print it,
and they /insist/ they have to lay it out manually for each sign.

I think that's crazy.
Nobody else thinks that is crazy.

So it's just me, asking /why/ they have to manually do anything.

So:
1. Can you ask that question ("do you ever not charge for layout")?
2. *and only if the answer to 1. is yes* "under what circumstance?"

When we know the answers to these, _then_ we can proceed.

I do understand that you consider this a 'normal' commercial action, but
we're dealing 100% with high-school kids who don't have the concept of
efficiency.

It's like my old secretary (admins nowadays) who would do everything
manually. She's make a change to a spreadsheet a thousand times, where it
never occurred to her to write a macro.

It's exactly like that.
The people doing the work don't have the /concept/ of efficiency.

If we remove the kids from the equation, all we need to do is /understand/
why /anyone/ would need to do /anything/ manual in this process.

Just like with the secretary, for whom I would write a script to do
automatically what she did manually a thousand times, I need to first
understand what steps need to be done manually, and then I'll eliminate
those manual steps.

I can't tell the secretary how to eliminate the steps.
I have to eliminate them for her.
And then I tell her how to do the job using the macro,.

Same here.
The kids will /never/ not do everything manually unless I show them how.
It's just not in their bones.

In message , Ragnusen Ultred
writes:
[]
The kids will /never/ not do everything manually unless I show them how.
It's just not in their bones.

So, the answer to my question is: they will always do the manual stage,
whatever you give them.

But you _might_ be able to persuade them not to if you can _show_ them.

I don't think we need to discuss any more until you've:

1. Had a play with the Adobe Illustrator you've downloaded;
2. determined whether you think you can skip the "manual layout stage"
(this implies
1a. understood what they _mean_ by "the manual layout stage"
3. (if 2 is "yes") persuaded them to let you show them.

(Where "they" is "the shop" or "the kids" or whatever.)

Can we take a break until you've done these 3 (or 4)?
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

They don't seem to want to blind me with science nor to impress me with their
superior intellect, but just to share their enthusiasm for their subject.
(Appreciative) contributor to Radio Times letters page, 26 July-1 August 2014

Am Sun, 1 Apr 2018 01:42:30 +0100, schrieb J. P. Gilliver (John):


Hi John,
I already told Neil it was my last post until I have something to report,
so I'm just responding to your questions, and then I will back out until I
have the process figured out based on what Paul already explained.

(Basically Paul already did what I need to do, but the software downloads
keep crapping out - I'm on an extremely slow over-the-air link.)

So, the answer to my question is: they will always do the manual stage,
whatever you give them.

I think the answer to that is "no", but I'm not a psychologist, so, I'd say
that your assumption they'll lay it out every time is accurate ... unless
.... unless ... unless, like with my secretary long ago ... I show them how
to do it manually.

Just as with the secretary, once I wrote the macro, she was happy to *use*
that macro, she would never have written the macro on her own.

So, while I admit I'm not a teen psychologist, I "think" the teens will
*use* whatever I tell them to use, if it works for them. (If it doesn't
work, they won't use it and they'll fall back to their old ways.)

Again, your observation is reasonable even though I disagree since nobody
knows what someone else will do when shown a 'better' way, but nothing will
change, for sure, ... unless ... unless I show them a better way.

I can't show them that better way until I understand it myself.
And, for that, I have to do what Paul did - so - I won't add any value here
until I do that - so I'm just answering your concerns.

But you _might_ be able to persuade them not to if you can _show_ them.

Oh, Yes. (I respond inline.) You do understand very well, John. Thanks.
Yes. If I show them the light, I *hope* to persuade them.

It just boggles my mind that anyone would do layout when the layout is
already done.

I don't think we need to discuss any more until you've:
1. Had a play with the Adobe Illustrator you've downloaded;
2. determined whether you think you can skip the "manual layout stage"
(this implies
1a. understood what they _mean_ by "the manual layout stage"
3. (if 2 is "yes") persuaded them to let you show them.
(Where "they" is "the shop" or "the kids" or whatever.)
Can we take a break until you've done these 3 (or 4)?

Yes. Good idea. I ran the download a couple of times and it keeps timing
out, so, I don't know if that techspot site is just crap or if it's my
admittedly slow over-the-air connection, but I'm trying again to get the
software.

Thank you for always adding value.
*I won't post back until/unless I get something to post back.*
--
(However, if someone asks a direct question like you did ... I will answer
their questions out of courtesy.)

On Sun, 1 Apr 2018 06:43:19 -0700, Ragnusen Ultred
wrote:

I ran the download a couple of times and it keeps timing
out, so, I don't know if that techspot site is just crap or if it's my
admittedly slow over-the-air connection, but I'm trying again to get the
software.

Back when more of us were on slow connections, programs like Free
Download Manager were essential. Everyone had a download manager, and
that one was, by far, the most popular since it was free. I just checked
and I see that it's still actively being developed and they've added all
but the kitchen sink, but its ability to "resume broken downloads" was
incredibly useful back in the day.

https://www.freedownloadmanager.org

Char Jackson wrote:
On Sun, 1 Apr 2018 06:43:19 -0700, Ragnusen Ultred
wrote:

I ran the download a couple of times and it keeps timing
out, so, I don't know if that techspot site is just crap or if it's my
admittedly slow over-the-air connection, but I'm trying again to get the
software.

Back when more of us were on slow connections, programs like Free
Download Manager were essential. Everyone had a download manager, and
that one was, by far, the most popular since it was free. I just checked
and I see that it's still actively being developed and they've added all
but the kitchen sink, but its ability to "resume broken downloads" was
incredibly useful back in the day.

https://www.freedownloadmanager.org

This is a special case though.

He needs to load "about:blank" or the nearest equivalent, into
the main browser window, while the download runs in the download
dialog (i.e. after the download has started). There is some
heavy-weight Javascript in the main page, which actually manages
to interfere with the download a tiny bit.

None of my downloads timed out, but I did need to
"optimize a little bit", for best performance.

The download server in this case, starts out at 100% link, and
drops to around 60% later in the download.

Size: 375638402 bytes (358 MB)
SHA1: 1538166046E59DB6098F75C3196E84AD9310DEA1

Size: 427451410 bytes (407 MB)
SHA1: D06911267603474B43F3F39E4B00029787173962

Size: 346373903 bytes (330 MB)
SHA1: 54BA48723D657E4A86903ED2C876381488C8F945

Size: 431237012 bytes (411 MB)
SHA1: 1C6CC05D49244ED1417B3E2C3136D4FD0B7F57E0

Paul

On Sun, 01 Apr 2018 13:31:55 -0400, Paul wrote:

Char Jackson wrote:
On Sun, 1 Apr 2018 06:43:19 -0700, Ragnusen Ultred
wrote:

I ran the download a couple of times and it keeps timing
out, so, I don't know if that techspot site is just crap or if it's my
admittedly slow over-the-air connection, but I'm trying again to get the
software.

Back when more of us were on slow connections, programs like Free
Download Manager were essential. Everyone had a download manager, and
that one was, by far, the most popular since it was free. I just checked
and I see that it's still actively being developed and they've added all
but the kitchen sink, but its ability to "resume broken downloads" was
incredibly useful back in the day.

https://www.freedownloadmanager.org

This is a special case though.

He needs to load "about:blank" or the nearest equivalent, into
the main browser window, while the download runs in the download
dialog (i.e. after the download has started). There is some
heavy-weight Javascript in the main page, which actually manages
to interfere with the download a tiny bit.

Sorry, Paul, I'm not following you. Maybe this will help.

A download manager (DM) works by splitting the download into smaller,
more manageable, pieces. Each piece is an entirely separate download. If
any piece stalls and times out or otherwise fails, it is automatically
retried by the DM. Once all of the pieces have been successfully
downloaded, the pieces are reassembled and saved to the filesystem.

The two caveats are that the download source needs to support 'ranged'
downloads, and it needs to support 'resumed' downloads. Most download
sources support both of those things.

The concept has a few things in common with torrents, but the source
location is a single location rather than multiple different locations.

Char Jackson wrote:
On Sun, 01 Apr 2018 13:31:55 -0400, Paul wrote:

Char Jackson wrote:
On Sun, 1 Apr 2018 06:43:19 -0700, Ragnusen Ultred
wrote:

I ran the download a couple of times and it keeps timing
out, so, I don't know if that techspot site is just crap or if it's my
admittedly slow over-the-air connection, but I'm trying again to get the
software.
Back when more of us were on slow connections, programs like Free
Download Manager were essential. Everyone had a download manager, and
that one was, by far, the most popular since it was free. I just checked
and I see that it's still actively being developed and they've added all
but the kitchen sink, but its ability to "resume broken downloads" was
incredibly useful back in the day.

https://www.freedownloadmanager.org
This is a special case though.

He needs to load "about:blank" or the nearest equivalent, into
the main browser window, while the download runs in the download
dialog (i.e. after the download has started). There is some
heavy-weight Javascript in the main page, which actually manages
to interfere with the download a tiny bit.

Sorry, Paul, I'm not following you. Maybe this will help.

A download manager (DM) works by splitting the download into smaller,
more manageable, pieces. Each piece is an entirely separate download. If
any piece stalls and times out or otherwise fails, it is automatically
retried by the DM. Once all of the pieces have been successfully
downloaded, the pieces are reassembled and saved to the filesystem.

The two caveats are that the download source needs to support 'ranged'
downloads, and it needs to support 'resumed' downloads. Most download
sources support both of those things.

The concept has a few things in common with torrents, but the source
location is a single location rather than multiple different locations.


I'm commenting on how the opened web page, interacted with the
download happening at the time.

I don't know (and didn't test) whether the download links were
dynamic and locked to the browser in any way. As a means to
enforce an advertising scheme perhaps. It would be "bad" web
design, to just leave static web links out there, for people
to circulate to one another, without some means to
squeeze a few ad views in there.

What I was noticing was, that as the download progressed, any time
the techspot webpage attempted to auto-update (to present advertising),
it seemed to do something to the download rate. And some of the
effect could be removed, just by "parking" the page. I chose to do
the four downloads, one at a time, because I could see the
download was a bit "nervous looking".

Sure, I've used downloader tools, for cases where a server
has a "cap", or the download keeps dropping and a "reliable" (resume-able)
downloader is called for. My experience with that site wasn't
that bad, that I even contemplated such. But I did end up playing
with the web page a bit during the downloads, because it was
behaving a bit badly.

Resume-able downloads don't always work. I tried Netscape 4.76
against a Microsoft server, where Netscape was an early example
of byte-range downloading. And when used against a balky
Microsoft server, the output file ended up *larger*
than what it was supposed to be. The two ends have to behave
themselves, for a resume-able download to work. That's the
same Microsoft site that truncated downloads, and both
ends of the link seemed to think the download actually
completed with a zero status.

This isn't the most miserable download site I've ever used.
Not even close. I didn't need heavy artillery.

Paul

On Sun, 01 Apr 2018 16:19:44 -0400, Paul wrote:

Char Jackson wrote:
On Sun, 01 Apr 2018 13:31:55 -0400, Paul wrote:

Char Jackson wrote:
On Sun, 1 Apr 2018 06:43:19 -0700, Ragnusen Ultred
wrote:

I ran the download a couple of times and it keeps timing
out, so, I don't know if that techspot site is just crap or if it's my
admittedly slow over-the-air connection, but I'm trying again to get the
software.
Back when more of us were on slow connections, programs like Free
Download Manager were essential. Everyone had a download manager, and
that one was, by far, the most popular since it was free. I just checked
and I see that it's still actively being developed and they've added all
but the kitchen sink, but its ability to "resume broken downloads" was
incredibly useful back in the day.

https://www.freedownloadmanager.org
This is a special case though.

He needs to load "about:blank" or the nearest equivalent, into
the main browser window, while the download runs in the download
dialog (i.e. after the download has started). There is some
heavy-weight Javascript in the main page, which actually manages
to interfere with the download a tiny bit.

Sorry, Paul, I'm not following you. Maybe this will help.

A download manager (DM) works by splitting the download into smaller,
more manageable, pieces. Each piece is an entirely separate download. If
any piece stalls and times out or otherwise fails, it is automatically
retried by the DM. Once all of the pieces have been successfully
downloaded, the pieces are reassembled and saved to the filesystem.

The two caveats are that the download source needs to support 'ranged'
downloads, and it needs to support 'resumed' downloads. Most download
sources support both of those things.

The concept has a few things in common with torrents, but the source
location is a single location rather than multiple different locations.


I'm commenting on how the opened web page, interacted with the
download happening at the time.

OK, no worries. I only wanted to point out that folks with slow or
unreliable Internet connections can likely use a download manager to
overcome the related difficulties.

I'm still not sure what you're exactly saying, but that's OK.

Am Sun, 01 Apr 2018 16:22:08 -0500, schrieb Char Jackson:

OK, no worries. I only wanted to point out that folks with slow or
unreliable Internet connections can likely use a download manager to
overcome the related difficulties.

I'm still not sure what you're exactly saying, but that's OK.

This is for Paul, where I simply documented what I did, and it still kept
asking for CD 2, which doesn't exist (it's all on the hard drive).

Paul ... here's what I did.

I'll continue to debug ...and try things out ... but, as you said, there's
a trick to installing it, where the instructions that come with it assume
you actually have a CDROM in the optical disc drive.

Paul: What did I do wrong?

1. Download the 4 files from:
https://www.techspot.com/downloads/4...uite-free.html
-----
Name: CreativeSuiteCS2Disc1.exe
Size: 375638402 bytes (358 MB)
SHA256: 36DACE2549BDE94D7A45281380EEF453FD2AF38EDA19348FA3 DE567549A696EC
SHA1: 1538166046E59DB6098F75C3196E84AD9310DEA1
-----
Name: CreativeSuiteCS2Disc2.exe
Size: 427451410 bytes (407 MB)
SHA256: 5862668CA45C0196777D3D4E2108D0A6F0750F6965769CB573 0944D3520DBB54
Size: 427451410 bytes (407 MB)
SHA1: D06911267603474B43F3F39E4B00029787173962
-----
Name: CreativeSuiteCS2Disc3.exe
Size: 346373903 bytes (330 MB)
SHA256: C662F1C431FAA33160523545FDA3BD58F29ED3616CB8E6D183 5CCE810AD5AB30
SHA1: 54BA48723D657E4A86903ED2C876381488C8F945
-----
Name: CS_2.0_WWE_Extras_1.exe
Size: 431237012 bytes (411 MB)
SHA256: 921402DA55BFEF5E6E21DE2261F725FFE0A451153F453000FB 3152635E1161BE
SHA1: 1C6CC05D49244ED1417B3E2C3136D4FD0B7F57E0

2. Unpack by right clicking & selecting 7Zip unpack to (choose the
default):
-----
CreativeSuiteCS2Disc1.exe unpacks with 7Zip to
.\CreativeSuiteCS2Disc1\Adobe Creative Suite 2.0\.
.\CreativeSuiteCS2Disc1\Design Guide.pdf
.\CreativeSuiteCS2Disc1\How To Install.html
.\CreativeSuiteCS2Disc1\How to Uninstall.pdf
.\CreativeSuiteCS2Disc1\Read Me First.html
-----
CreativeSuiteCS2Disc2.exe unpacks with 7Zip to
.\CreativeSuiteCS2Disc2\Adobe InDesign CS2\.
.\CreativeSuiteCS2Disc2\Adobe Version Cue CS2\.
-----
CreativeSuiteCS2Disc3.exe unpacks with 7Zip to
.\CreativeSuiteCS2Disc3\Adobe Creative Suite 2.0\.
-----
CS_2.0_WWE_Extras_1.exe unpacks with 7Zip to
.\CS_2.0_WWE_Extras_1\Adobe Solutions Network\.
.\CS_2.0_WWE_Extras_1\Documentation\.
.\CS_2.0_WWE_Extras_1\Goodies\.
.\CS_2.0_WWE_Extras_1\Technical Information\.

3. Combine all files and directories into a single directory:
.\CreativeSuite\CS2\Adobe Creative Suite 2.0\.
.\CreativeSuite\CS2\Adobe InDesign CS2\.
.\CreativeSuite\CS2\Adobe Solutions Network\.
.\CreativeSuite\CS2\Adobe Version Cue CS2\.
.\CreativeSuite\CS2\Design Guide.pdf
.\CreativeSuite\CS2\Documentation\.
.\CreativeSuite\CS2\Goodies\.
.\CreativeSuite\CS2\How To Install.html
.\CreativeSuite\CS2\How to Uninstall.pdf
.\CreativeSuite\CS2\Read Me First.html
.\CreativeSuite\CS2\Technical Information\.

4. Run the installer (I ran on Windows 10 1709 Creator's Edition):
.\CreativeSuite\CS2\Adobe Creative Suite 2.0\Setup.exe

5. You'll get a warning that "QuickTime 6 is required to use the
multimedia features in the Adobe Creative Suite 2", which you
can ignore.

6. Then it will require a Name (default = "Windows User") & serial number.
Name: Windows user
Company: blank
Serial Number 1130 1414 7569 4457 6613 5551

7. It will default to C:\Program Files (x86)\Adobe
It says it will use up 2.62GB
I put mine in C:\app\editor\pic\cs2

8. There will be a choice of what components to install:
[x] Adobe Illustrator CS2 (600MB)
[x] Adobe InDesign CS2 (400MB)
[x] Adobe Photoshop CS2 and Adobe ImageReady CS2 (450MB)
[x] Adobe Version Cue CS2 (300MB)

9. It will start installing and then ask:
"Please insert CD 2 to continue installation"
where if you hit the "OK" button, it will ask forever
for that CD 2.

Am Sun, 1 Apr 2018 15:30:09 -0700, schrieb Ragnusen Ultred:

Paul: What did I do wrong?

Well, only with computers can you repeatedly do the same thing, and expect
a different result!

Here's where I am, Paul, where I would say I'm "mostly" successful in
installing the tools. Two of the tools still require "CD 2" so there must
be a trick, but luckily, the Adobe Illustrator that I want does not seem to
require CD 2.

Nonetheless, here's a log file so that someone who knows more than I do who
is on this newsgroup can help us figure out how to get rid of the CD 2
error below, so that /everyone/ can benefit from this quick setup tutorial.

NOTE: All my setup tutorials have full paths so you'd likely want to change
your paths as you see fit.

1. Download the 4 files from:
https://www.techspot.com/downloads/4...uite-free.html
-----
Name: CreativeSuiteCS2Disc1.exe
Size: 375638402 bytes (358 MB)
SHA256: 36DACE2549BDE94D7A45281380EEF453FD2AF38EDA19348FA3 DE567549A696EC
SHA1: 1538166046E59DB6098F75C3196E84AD9310DEA1
-----
Name: CreativeSuiteCS2Disc2.exe
Size: 427451410 bytes (407 MB)
SHA256: 5862668CA45C0196777D3D4E2108D0A6F0750F6965769CB573 0944D3520DBB54
Size: 427451410 bytes (407 MB)
SHA1: D06911267603474B43F3F39E4B00029787173962
-----
Name: CreativeSuiteCS2Disc3.exe
Size: 346373903 bytes (330 MB)
SHA256: C662F1C431FAA33160523545FDA3BD58F29ED3616CB8E6D183 5CCE810AD5AB30
SHA1: 54BA48723D657E4A86903ED2C876381488C8F945
-----
Name: CS_2.0_WWE_Extras_1.exe
Size: 431237012 bytes (411 MB)
SHA256: 921402DA55BFEF5E6E21DE2261F725FFE0A451153F453000FB 3152635E1161BE
SHA1: 1C6CC05D49244ED1417B3E2C3136D4FD0B7F57E0

2. Unpack by right clicking & selecting 7Zip unpack to (choose the
default):
-----
CreativeSuiteCS2Disc1.exe unpacks with 7Zip to
.\CreativeSuiteCS2Disc1\Adobe Creative Suite 2.0\.
.\CreativeSuiteCS2Disc1\Design Guide.pdf
.\CreativeSuiteCS2Disc1\How To Install.html
.\CreativeSuiteCS2Disc1\How to Uninstall.pdf
.\CreativeSuiteCS2Disc1\Read Me First.html
-----
CreativeSuiteCS2Disc2.exe unpacks with 7Zip to
.\CreativeSuiteCS2Disc2\Adobe InDesign CS2\.
.\CreativeSuiteCS2Disc2\Adobe Version Cue CS2\.
-----
CreativeSuiteCS2Disc3.exe unpacks with 7Zip to
.\CreativeSuiteCS2Disc3\Adobe Creative Suite 2.0\.
-----
CS_2.0_WWE_Extras_1.exe unpacks with 7Zip to
.\CS_2.0_WWE_Extras_1\Adobe Solutions Network\.
.\CS_2.0_WWE_Extras_1\Documentation\.
.\CS_2.0_WWE_Extras_1\Goodies\.
.\CS_2.0_WWE_Extras_1\Technical Information\.

3. Combine all files and directories into a single directory:
.\CreativeSuite\CS2\Adobe Creative Suite 2.0\.
.\CreativeSuite\CS2\Adobe InDesign CS2\.
.\CreativeSuite\CS2\Adobe Solutions Network\.
.\CreativeSuite\CS2\Adobe Version Cue CS2\.
.\CreativeSuite\CS2\Design Guide.pdf
.\CreativeSuite\CS2\Documentation\.
.\CreativeSuite\CS2\Goodies\.
.\CreativeSuite\CS2\How To Install.html
.\CreativeSuite\CS2\How to Uninstall.pdf
.\CreativeSuite\CS2\Read Me First.html
.\CreativeSuite\CS2\Technical Information\.

4. Run the installer (I ran on Windows 10 1709 Creator's Edition):
.\CreativeSuite\CS2\Adobe Creative Suite 2.0\Setup.exe

5. You'll get a warning that "QuickTime 6 is required to use the
multimedia features in the Adobe Creative Suite 2", which you
can ignore.

6. Then it will require a Name (default = "Windows User") & serial number.
Name: Windows user
Company: blank
Serial Number 1130 1414 7569 4457 6613 5551

7. It will default to C:\Program Files (x86)\Adobe
It says it will use up 2.62GB
I put mine in C:\app\editor\pic\cs2

8. There will be a choice of what components to install:
[x] Adobe Illustrator CS2 (600MB)
[x] Adobe InDesign CS2 (400MB)
[x] Adobe Photoshop CS2 and Adobe ImageReady CS2 (450MB)
[x] Adobe Version Cue CS2 (300MB)

9. It will start installing and then ask:
"Please insert CD 2 to continue installation"
where if you hit the "OK" button, it will ask forever
for that CD 2.

Note: It seems to have installed Photoshop though, but nothing else.

10. So I hit cancel, and then ran the Setup.exe again.
Up pops an option to "Change/Remove the Adobe Creative Suite 2"
with the two options:
(_) Install, Re-install, or Uninstall Individual Adobe CS2 Components
(o) Uninstall all Adobe Creative Suite 2 Components

So I switch that default to:
(0) Install, Re-install, or Uninstall Individual Adobe CS2 Components
(_) Uninstall all Adobe Creative Suite 2 Components

11. This time a form came up to "Change Individual Components", saying:
Please select the components of the Adobe Creative Suite 2 to modify.
Adobe Illustrator CS2 (600MB)
[No Change - Not Installed] or [Install]
Adobe InDesign CS2 (400MB)
[No Change - Not Installed] or [Install]
Adobe Photoshop CS2 & Adobe ImageReady CS2 (450MB)
[No Change - Installed] or [Uninstall] or [Re-Install]
Adobe Version Cue CS2 (300MB)
[No Change - Not Installed] or [Install]
Where the first item in the list is the default.

12. I changed the Adobe Illustrator CS2 to "Install" & hit Next
and waited for it to display a "Finish" button, which I hit
and the installation GUI went away.

13. So I ran the Setup.exe again.
Up pops an option to "Change/Remove the Adobe Creative Suite 2"
with the two options:
(_) Install, Re-install, or Uninstall Individual Adobe CS2 Components
(o) Uninstall all Adobe Creative Suite 2 Components

So I switch that default to:
(0) Install, Re-install, or Uninstall Individual Adobe CS2 Components
(_) Uninstall all Adobe Creative Suite 2 Components

14. Now the "Change Individual Components" form says:
Please select the components of the Adobe Creative Suite 2 to modify.
Adobe Illustrator CS2 (600MB)
[No Change - Installed] or [Uninstall] or [Re-Install]
Adobe InDesign CS2 (400MB)
[No Change - Not Installed] or [Install]
Adobe Photoshop CS2 & Adobe ImageReady CS2 (450MB)
[No Change - Installed] or [Uninstall] or [Re-Install]
Adobe Version Cue CS2 (300MB)
[No Change - Not Installed] or [Install]
Where the first item in the list is the default.

15. This time I selected both the remaining tools to install and hit Next.
Drat.
It asked for CD 2 and wouldn't take anything else for an answer.
So I had to quit.

16. So I ran the Setup.exe again and only selected one product to install.
Adobe InDesign CS2 (400MB)
But it asked for CD 2 so I killed that.

17. So I ran the Setup.exe again and only selected one product to install.
Adobe Version Cue CS2 (300MB)
But it asked for CD 2 so I killed that.

18. Giving up on the entire suite, I then looked to see what was installed.
C:\editor\app\pic\cs2\.
Adobe Bridge\.
Adobe Creative Suite 2\.
Adobe Help Center\.
Adobe Illustrator CS2\.
Adobe Photoshop CS2\.
Adobe Stock Photos \.

19. I guess the executables of interest a
C:\editor\app\pic\cs2\Adobe Illustrator CS2\Adobe Illustrator CS2.lnk
Right clicking on the shortcut to select properties shows:
Target: "C:\app\editor\pic\cs2\Adobe Illustrator CS2\Support
Files\Contents\Windows\Illustrator.exe
Open In: "c:\app\editor\pic\cs2\Adobe Illustrator CS2\Support
Files\Contents\Windows\"
C:\editor\app\pic\cs2\Adobe Photoshop CS2\Photoshop.exe
C:\editor\app\pic\cs2\Adobe Bridge\Bridge.exe

20. Creating a shortcut to the Photoshop executable and running it
pops up Photoshop version 9.0 and a voluntary registration form
and then automatically checks for updates.

Photoshop, which I've never used, appears to be working.

21. Running the Adobe Illustrator shortcut seems to run Adobe Illustrator
version 12.0.0 and it doesn't ask for registration (probably because
the first executable you run is what asks).

Illustrator, which I've never used, appears to be working.