Why are printers constantly redesigned with no improvements?

On Sat, 11 Jul 2020 08:27:49 -0400, Jonathan N. Little wrote:

Like Frank Slootweg, and whomever was prior, the best thing I ever did was
give up on the ink printers to go with the HP Laserjet 2100tn.

Still have one going strong. Only issue is mine is not the TN version
but uses parallel port. Networked via Linux server on older hardware
with the port. $30 toner cartridge last for years

Hi Jonathan Little,

Yup. You helped me a lot over the years _installing_ the now deprecated
drivers for the HP 2100 Laser Printer (and I took what you taught me to
help others as a payback, which, is what I love to do, for decades).

With your help, I wrote a tutorial, which, Cybe(r) Wizard denies exists.

You helped by explaining how to get the printer drivers from Microsoft,
given that (a) HP no longer has them, and (b) nobody on this planet (yet)
knows how to archive them (e.g., if I hear one more person suggest
double-D...), and (c) the default method on Windows 10 for obtaining legacy
printer drivers fails every time.

The _only_ way to get the drivers for that printer, is to go to the
microsoft catalog and get them from there (and archive that, as someday
that too will likely be deprecated).

You helped me help others, where after all the research I did based on your
suggestions (and those from Paul), I wrote a tutorial and posted it long
ago, which we can find, as long as I added a degagoogled newsgroup (which I
hope I did).

Ah, I did (so that it's _easy_ for anyone to find if they need it):
o *Tutorial for the EASIEST (maybe only?) way to install a problematic*
*legacy printer such as the HP LaserJet 2100 on Windows 10 current*
*versions*
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/alt.comp.freeware/Qb-fXNOH_8g
--
Whenever I do hours and sometimes days of research for a thread (unlike the
many worthless pieces of **** who spend mere seconds in their refusal of
all facts they don't like, by the way), I strive to add a dejagoogled
newsgroup, usually the windowsxp or freeware groups, as the Windows 7 and
Windows 8 groups are also not dejagoogled.

On Sat, 11 Jul 2020 07:07:56 -0700, Ken Blake wrote:

I'm with those in favor of laser printers. I gave up on inkjets long
ago. I think it's much better to use laser printers, and in the long
run, it's less expensive.

I use a Brother HL-L2300D. It's B&W, and does a great job. It was
inexpensive, and the third-party cartridges (EZInk) I use are also
inexpensive.

What I love about this thread is it made me think about something I had
never realized, which is _why_ printer makers keep coming out with new
models, and yet, nothing, apparently, is new in the printing (it seems).

Sort of like how Windows 10 is the same as every other Windows over time.

Generally, that's a classic mark of MARKETING whose "claims" all sorts of
features, that really don't matter (e.g., emojiis or different colors).

Printers have morphed from serial/parallel ports to USB to Ethernet/wifi,
for example, but that happened long ago, as did SDcard slots, but what else
has been added to printers that makes them any better?

Dunno.

As many of us have learned, the B&W laser printers seem to be a _lot_ less
hassle (and overall expense) than all the new inkjets on the planet.

However, it took me years of inkjets, mostly HP, mostly from Costco, to
learn that HP does everything it can to prevent you from refilling, even as
I wrote (I don't know how many) tutorials on how to get past the expiry
date (down to resetting the clock and other needless shenanigans).
--
When something doesn't really change over time, and yet, they keep coming
out with "new" models, then MARKETING is having a field day, but not R&D.

Char Jackson wrote:
On Sat, 11 Jul 2020 07:07:56 -0700, Ken Blake wrote:

On 7/11/2020 5:27 AM, Jonathan N. Little wrote:
Arlen Holder wrote:

Like Frank Slootweg, and whomever was prior, the best thing I ever did was
give up on the ink printers to go with the HP Laserjet 2100tn.

Still have one going strong. Only issue is mine is not the TN version
but uses parallel port. Networked via Linux server on older hardware
with the port. $30 toner cartridge last for years.



I'm with those in favor of laser printers. I gave up on inkjets long
ago. I think it's much better to use laser printers, and in the long
run, it's less expensive.

I use a Brother HL-L2300D. It's B&W, and does a great job. It was
inexpensive, and the third-party cartridges (EZInk) I use are also
inexpensive.

Do you have another printer for those times when you want color, or have
you found that you really don't need color?


HP LaserJet 2000 main document printing
HP LaserJet 400C for color work
HP OfficeJet Pro 8000 with CISS for printing reference photos for artwork
(1)Still the most troublesome printer
(2)Would shoot with my 12 gauge except too far away from civilization to
have photos printed at WalMart or Walgreens which is my recommendation
to most people.

--
Take care,

Jonathan
-------------------
LITTLE WORKS STUDIO
http://www.LittleWorksStudio.com

On Sat, 11 Jul 2020 10:50:27 -0500, Char Jackson wrote:

Do you have another printer for those times when you want color, or have
you found that you really don't need color?

When I had grandkids in the house, I "needed" color (particularly for
school projects), which is what made the decision to go all B&W laser so
difficult, at first.

Then, I reasoned, the cost of the ink could be offset by bringing an SDcard
or USB stick to Kinkos (at that time it was Kinkos, it's FedEx now), which
I only "needed" to do a few times (for school projects).

Now, with the grandkids out of the house (long story!), there hasn't been a
need for color but FedEx is only 15 miles away (everything is 15 miles away
though, so we would just combine trips with shopping trips).

Rarely do we need "instant" color printing, in my experience.
--
MARKETING will claim it's new even if nothing new is really inside it.

On 7/9/2020 5:13 AM, Commander Kinsey wrote:
Every time I buy a new printer, it's changed. New stupid quirks,
different ink cartridges. But not faster, not better quality, nothing
useful. There was no need to make it different.

So far I've seen only 1 response that answers your question -
parallel-serial to USB to wifi-Ethernet and the addition of slots for
various sorts of memory cards.

To these I'd add that features like duplexing, and increases in speed
have gone up while prices have gone down. Ditto cost/higher resolution.

I don't think the changes/improvements are simply marketing ploys - how
often does anyone buy a new printer to get the latest? I'd guess most
folks replace an old printer because it has failed or can't connect to
a new computer. (I added an LPT/Parallel card to my desktop PC to
connect to a fairly old Laser.)

So I think there have been improvements and corresponding cost
reductions. I'm still waiting for the print-what-I'm thinking about
feature.

On Sat, 11 Jul 2020 19:42:58 +0100, Bennett Price wrote:

On 7/9/2020 5:13 AM, Commander Kinsey wrote:
Every time I buy a new printer, it's changed. New stupid quirks,
different ink cartridges. But not faster, not better quality, nothing
useful. There was no need to make it different.

So far I've seen only 1 response that answers your question -
parallel-serial to USB to wifi-Ethernet and the addition of slots for
various sorts of memory cards.

To these I'd add that features like duplexing, and increases in speed
have gone up while prices have gone down. Ditto cost/higher resolution.

I don't think the changes/improvements are simply marketing ploys - how
often does anyone buy a new printer to get the latest? I'd guess most
folks replace an old printer because it has failed or can't connect to
a new computer. (I added an LPT/Parallel card to my desktop PC to
connect to a fairly old Laser.)

I had that problem where I worked which had Apple computers - in that case I bought adapters to go into the serial ports, cheaper and easier to fit/swap around than a card. But PCs tend to keep the old ports for a decade afterwards. I bought a motherboard with a serial and parallel port on the back about only 5 years ago. When was it USB came out?

So I think there have been improvements and corresponding cost
reductions. I'm still waiting for the print-what-I'm thinking about
feature.

But you've listed only a handful of proper feature changes. I bet you there are about 250 models of Epson inkjet ever made.

On Sat, 11 Jul 2020 16:29:42 -0000 (UTC), Arlen Holder
wrote:

On Sat, 11 Jul 2020 07:07:56 -0700, Ken Blake wrote:

I'm with those in favor of laser printers. I gave up on inkjets long
ago. I think it's much better to use laser printers, and in the long
run, it's less expensive.

I use a Brother HL-L2300D. It's B&W, and does a great job. It was
inexpensive, and the third-party cartridges (EZInk) I use are also
inexpensive.

What I love about this thread is it made me think about something I had
never realized, which is _why_ printer makers keep coming out with new
models, and yet, nothing, apparently, is new in the printing (it seems).

Sort of like how Windows 10 is the same as every other Windows over time.

Generally, that's a classic mark of MARKETING whose "claims" all sorts of
features, that really don't matter (e.g., emojiis or different colors).

Printers have morphed from serial/parallel ports to USB to Ethernet/wifi,
for example, but that happened long ago, as did SDcard slots, but what else
has been added to printers that makes them any better?

Dunno.

As many of us have learned, the B&W laser printers seem to be a _lot_ less
hassle (and overall expense) than all the new inkjets on the planet.

I seem to be going the other way. Originally because I was working
from home and lateer out of habit I have had nothing but color lazers
as my main workhorse printers. My last was and OKI C5600 which I must
have owned for years. It was not a fax, or a scanner or a copier. Just
a plain working printer. Toner caartidges started getting a bit
expensive but, as you say there relatively cheap on a per copy basis.
But then came the day when it was about to ask me for two new toner
cartridges, a drum and belt, with two additional cartridges not too
far off. At this stage I went out and bought an Ethernet capable Epson
ET-4700 (ink tanks) with fax (which I don't use), copier with document
feeder and scanner. Its not as fast as the OKI but it starts up
without waiting for the fuser to heat up I get short prints sooner.
And its ink costs are cheap.

However, it took me years of inkjets, mostly HP, mostly from Costco, to
learn that HP does everything it can to prevent you from refilling, even as
I wrote (I don't know how many) tutorials on how to get past the expiry
date (down to resetting the clock and other needless shenanigans).
--

Regards,

Eric Stevens

On Sun, 12 Jul 2020 00:47:50 +0100, "Commander Kinsey"
wrote:

On Sat, 11 Jul 2020 19:42:58 +0100, Bennett Price wrote:

On 7/9/2020 5:13 AM, Commander Kinsey wrote:
Every time I buy a new printer, it's changed. New stupid quirks,
different ink cartridges. But not faster, not better quality, nothing
useful. There was no need to make it different.

So far I've seen only 1 response that answers your question -
parallel-serial to USB to wifi-Ethernet and the addition of slots for
various sorts of memory cards.

To these I'd add that features like duplexing, and increases in speed
have gone up while prices have gone down. Ditto cost/higher resolution.

I don't think the changes/improvements are simply marketing ploys - how
often does anyone buy a new printer to get the latest? I'd guess most
folks replace an old printer because it has failed or can't connect to
a new computer. (I added an LPT/Parallel card to my desktop PC to
connect to a fairly old Laser.)

I had that problem where I worked which had Apple computers - in that case I bought adapters to go into the serial ports, cheaper and easier to fit/swap around than a card. But PCs tend to keep the old ports for a decade afterwards. I bought a motherboard with a serial and parallel port on the back about only 5 years ago. When was it USB came out?

So I think there have been improvements and corresponding cost
reductions. I'm still waiting for the print-what-I'm thinking about
feature.

But you've listed only a handful of proper feature changes. I bet you there are about 250 models of Epson inkjet ever made.

I bet there is a damned sight more than that. In Desktop printers
there is the Workforce Series, ET Series, XP Series, Artisan Series
and the Stylus Series.

In large format printers they currently list 24 different models.

They currently list 10 different models of Point of Sale printers.

Leaving out the point of sale printers, the various printer models
currently listed under 'Support & Downloads' a

Eco Tank Multifunction printers 18
Eco Tank printers 3
Multifunction Printers 118
Inkjet Printers 113
Large Format Printers 72
----
324

Apart from that, there will be a long tail of utterly obsolete
printeres trailing into the distant past.
--

Regards,

Eric Stevens

On Sat, 11 Jul 2020 11:42:58 -0700, Bennett Price wrote:

I'd guess most
folks replace an old printer because it has failed

What I find fails most, in my laser printer, are the paper feeds.

I don't know how to clean them out other than what I can see.

Other than the paper feeds, mine has been working for a decade or so.

Maybe they've improved those damn paper feeds over time perhaps?

On 7/11/2020 8:50 AM, Char Jackson wrote:
On Sat, 11 Jul 2020 07:07:56 -0700, Ken Blake wrote:

On 7/11/2020 5:27 AM, Jonathan N. Little wrote:
Arlen Holder wrote:

Like Frank Slootweg, and whomever was prior, the best thing I ever did was
give up on the ink printers to go with the HP Laserjet 2100tn.

Still have one going strong. Only issue is mine is not the TN version
but uses parallel port. Networked via Linux server on older hardware
with the port. $30 toner cartridge last for years.



I'm with those in favor of laser printers. I gave up on inkjets long
ago. I think it's much better to use laser printers, and in the long
run, it's less expensive.

I use a Brother HL-L2300D. It's B&W, and does a great job. It was
inexpensive, and the third-party cartridges (EZInk) I use are also
inexpensive.

Do you have another printer for those times when you want color, or have
you found that you really don't need color?


The latter. I used to have a color laser printer, but it died (two years
ago?), and rather than replace it with another color printer, I realized
I very seldom needed its color and decided to save money and buy a B&W.
It was a good decision.



--
Ken

On Sun, 12 Jul 2020 07:24:55 -0700, Ken Blake wrote:

The latter. I used to have a color laser printer, but it died (two years
ago?), and rather than replace it with another color printer, I realized
I very seldom needed its color and decided to save money and buy a B&W.
It was a good decision.

The question, more accurately, I think, is how often _must_ we have a color
printout *at that very instant in time* at home...

For me, given, over the years, mostly for the grandkids' school projects,
I've a few times brought a USB drive over to Kinkos/Federal Express to
print in color, if you have the _time_ to do that, then you don't need a
color printer at home (IMHO).

Plus, their printout is better, and on better paper, and longer lasting.

IMHO, given the universally expressed dislike for the color-printer hassle
and expense, the question is how often MUST you have a color printout NOW!
--
For me, it was "almost never" did I need a color printout at that instant.

On Sun, 12 Jul 2020 07:24:55 -0700, Ken Blake wrote:

On 7/11/2020 8:50 AM, Char Jackson wrote:
On Sat, 11 Jul 2020 07:07:56 -0700, Ken Blake wrote:

On 7/11/2020 5:27 AM, Jonathan N. Little wrote:
Arlen Holder wrote:

Like Frank Slootweg, and whomever was prior, the best thing I ever did was
give up on the ink printers to go with the HP Laserjet 2100tn.

Still have one going strong. Only issue is mine is not the TN version
but uses parallel port. Networked via Linux server on older hardware
with the port. $30 toner cartridge last for years.



I'm with those in favor of laser printers. I gave up on inkjets long
ago. I think it's much better to use laser printers, and in the long
run, it's less expensive.

I use a Brother HL-L2300D. It's B&W, and does a great job. It was
inexpensive, and the third-party cartridges (EZInk) I use are also
inexpensive.

Do you have another printer for those times when you want color, or have
you found that you really don't need color?


The latter. I used to have a color laser printer, but it died (two years
ago?), and rather than replace it with another color printer, I realized
I very seldom needed its color and decided to save money and buy a B&W.
It was a good decision.

Thanks. I also had a color laser that died. In my case, it was caused by
toner that had some chunks in it. I took my old inkjet out of storage,
where it had been for about 6 years, put in fresh ink with 'best if used by
2005' on the package, and gave it a whirl. It just worked, to my amazement.
I didn't even have to run through a cleaning cycle. I'm ready to go back to
laser, though. I'm undecided on the question of B/W vs color.

Char Jackson wrote:
Thanks. I also had a color laser that died. In my case, it was caused by
toner that had some chunks in it.

Why would that "kill" the printer? Many cartridges have the drum in the
cartridge, others you can get a new drum. The fuser also can be replaced

--
Take care,

Jonathan
-------------------
LITTLE WORKS STUDIO
http://www.LittleWorksStudio.com

On Sun, 12 Jul 2020 15:26:14 -0400, "Jonathan N. Little"
wrote:

Char Jackson wrote:
Thanks. I also had a color laser that died. In my case, it was caused by
toner that had some chunks in it.

Why would that "kill" the printer? Many cartridges have the drum in the
cartridge, others you can get a new drum. The fuser also can be replaced

The chunks jammed up some parts that didn't appear to be easily
replaceable. As I recall, the printer had a series of 10" long hollow
tubes, one for each cartridge, with a longitudinal gear shaft inside to
distribute toner. Two of those were frozen and the plastic gears that drive
them were destroyed, along with the plastic gear on the motor. I discovered
the toner chunks when I disassembled those long tubes. Repairable? I
decided not to.

On 7/12/2020 12:26 PM, Jonathan N. Little wrote:
Char Jackson wrote:
Thanks. I also had a color laser that died. In my case, it was caused by
toner that had some chunks in it.

Why would that "kill" the printer? Many cartridges have the drum in the
cartridge, others you can get a new drum. The fuser also can be replaced


"Kill" can mean different things to different people. In my case, what
caused it to "die" was a part than needed to be replaced (was it the
drum? "fuser? I don't remember.) I could have replaced the part, but
since it cost almost as much as replacing the whole printer, I didn't
want to.


--
Ken