Is there a way to run old 16 bit programs on Win7 64 bit

On 12/13/2015 2:31 AM, JJ wrote:
On Sat, 12 Dec 2015 16:52:23 -0700, Ashton Crusher wrote:
On Sun, 09 Mar 2014 20:34:50 -0700, Ashton Crusher
wrote:

Is there a way to run old 16 bit programs on Win7 64 bit?

I've got an old car repair CD that requires a program be installed on
the host computer. I had it on my old computer with win7 32 bit. I
now have a new computer that's Win7 64 and discovered that the install
program will not run and I presume even if it did that the program it
would install would also be 16 bit and would not run. Is there any
way to install these in some kind of compatibility mode or something?

I installed VirtualBox and then Vista within it. I was able to
install the 16 bit programs and at first they worked but now they
can't find the CD drive to read the data they need when they run.
Vista acts like it's installing SP1 but it never seems to actually
install it. It says "This may take an hour" and it's done in 30
seconds and on the next check of updates SP1 is still in the list
waiting to be installed. And I can't print to the XPS printer as far
as I can tell. It acts like it's printing to is but there is no
output I can find.

You'll need to copy the CD into an ISO disc image. There's a lot of free
softwares that can do it. e.g.

InfraRecorder
http://infrarecorder.org/

Once, you have the ISO, attach the ISO into the VM's CD/DVD drive then run
your old program.

If the old program is a DOS program (usually a text based), you might want
to use DOSBox instead.

DOSBox
https://sourceforge.net/projects/dosbox/

You'll need the ISO and attach it to DOSBox too. The upside is that it'll
use much less memory and performs better than VirtualBox/VMWare. The
downside is that it might be difficult to configure DOSBox, especially if
you're not familiar with DOS environment. So you might want to get a
frontend program for it. Two of them which I consider recomended a

D.O.G.
https://sourceforge.net/projects/dogfrontend/

D-Fend Reloaded
https://sourceforge.net/projects/dfendreloaded/


It sounds as though you are well versed in DOSBox so ...

I use DosBox in Win7 Pro at work to run a few 16 bit DOS programs that
are not available in 32 or 64 bit form.

These are graphics based programs displayed on a 24" LCD and its very
hard to see detail due to the tiny little window generated by DOS 640 x
320 resolution within the window. These are not games but custom
programs that display CNC scripts used to control machinery (mills,
lathes and the like).

1. Is there a way to expand DosBox's window to a readable size?

2. Is there a long file name support add-on that can be used in DosBox?

VMWare and VirtualBox need a 2nd license key for Win2K or XP which
unfortunately is not available for this commercial environment. In any
event temporary experiments have shown similar problems.

Thanks,
John

On 12/13/2015 6:48 AM, John wrote:
On 12/13/2015 2:31 AM, JJ wrote:
On Sat, 12 Dec 2015 16:52:23 -0700, Ashton Crusher wrote:
On Sun, 09 Mar 2014 20:34:50 -0700, Ashton Crusher
wrote:

Is there a way to run old 16 bit programs on Win7 64 bit?

I've got an old car repair CD that requires a program be installed on
the host computer. I had it on my old computer with win7 32 bit. I
now have a new computer that's Win7 64 and discovered that the install
program will not run and I presume even if it did that the program it
would install would also be 16 bit and would not run. Is there any
way to install these in some kind of compatibility mode or something?

I installed VirtualBox and then Vista within it. I was able to
install the 16 bit programs and at first they worked but now they
can't find the CD drive to read the data they need when they run.
Vista acts like it's installing SP1 but it never seems to actually
install it. It says "This may take an hour" and it's done in 30
seconds and on the next check of updates SP1 is still in the list
waiting to be installed. And I can't print to the XPS printer as far
as I can tell. It acts like it's printing to is but there is no
output I can find.

You'll need to copy the CD into an ISO disc image. There's a lot of free
softwares that can do it. e.g.

InfraRecorder
http://infrarecorder.org/

Once, you have the ISO, attach the ISO into the VM's CD/DVD drive then
run
your old program.

If the old program is a DOS program (usually a text based), you might
want
to use DOSBox instead.

DOSBox
https://sourceforge.net/projects/dosbox/

You'll need the ISO and attach it to DOSBox too. The upside is that it'll
use much less memory and performs better than VirtualBox/VMWare. The
downside is that it might be difficult to configure DOSBox, especially if
you're not familiar with DOS environment. So you might want to get a
frontend program for it. Two of them which I consider recomended a

D.O.G.
https://sourceforge.net/projects/dogfrontend/

D-Fend Reloaded
https://sourceforge.net/projects/dfendreloaded/


It sounds as though you are well versed in DOSBox so ...

I use DosBox in Win7 Pro at work to run a few 16 bit DOS programs that
are not available in 32 or 64 bit form.

These are graphics based programs displayed on a 24" LCD and its very
hard to see detail due to the tiny little window generated by DOS 640 x
320 resolution within the window. These are not games but custom
programs that display CNC scripts used to control machinery (mills,
lathes and the like).

1. Is there a way to expand DosBox's window to a readable size?

2. Is there a long file name support add-on that can be used in DosBox?

VMWare and VirtualBox need a 2nd license key for Win2K or XP which
unfortunately is not available for this commercial environment. In any
event temporary experiments have shown similar problems.

Thanks,
John





Oops .. make that 640x480 Dos resolution.

John

On Sun, 13 Dec 2015 06:54:22 -0500, John wrote:
On 12/13/2015 6:48 AM, John wrote:

It sounds as though you are well versed in DOSBox so ...

I use DosBox in Win7 Pro at work to run a few 16 bit DOS programs that
are not available in 32 or 64 bit form.

These are graphics based programs displayed on a 24" LCD and its very
hard to see detail due to the tiny little window generated by DOS 640 x
320 resolution within the window. These are not games but custom
programs that display CNC scripts used to control machinery (mills,
lathes and the like).

1. Is there a way to expand DosBox's window to a readable size?

2. Is there a long file name support add-on that can be used in DosBox?

VMWare and VirtualBox need a 2nd license key for Win2K or XP which
unfortunately is not available for this commercial environment. In any
event temporary experiments have shown similar problems.

Thanks,
John




Oops .. make that 640x480 Dos resolution.

John

1. You'll need to change the graphics output mode to other than Surface.
i.e. either Overlay, OpenGL, or DirectDraw. Surface mode doesn't support
upscaling. Overlay mode works best for older video adapters (that have low
performance or lack of feature). OpenGL mode works best for newer and faster
video adapters. OpenGL's upscaling produces sharper image than Overlay (may
depend on video adapter's 3D settings), but takes more GPU processing power
(relatively slower than Overlay). DirectDraw is supposed to work according
to DOSBox's wiki, but it doesn't work on my system (only Overlay and OpenGL
work). After the output mode is set, select the preferred Window Resolution
and optionally the Fullscreen Resolution settings. Note: the resolution
should be in 4:3 ratio.

For D.O.G.: Profiles Edit Profile Screen Screen Settings

For D-Fend Reloaded: Profile Edit... Hardware Graphics

The output mode setting in D-Fend Reloaded is labeled as Render.

For manual DOSBox config file, under [sdl] section, set both "output" and
"windowresolution" settings. e.g.:

windowresolution=1024x768
output=overlay

Below is the syntax for the above settings from the DOSBox wiki.

windowresolution = width x height | original | desktop
output = surface | overlay | opengl | openglnb | ddraw

http://www.dosbox.com/wiki/Dosbox.conf#.5Bsdl.5D

2. AFAIK, DOSBox supports Long File Name (LFN), but it's not out of the box.
It still require an LFN provider - presumably third party programs like
DOSLFN or even Windows 9x. There's an enhanced DOSBox build that has LFN
ready to use, that you might want to try.

http://www.dosbox.com/wiki/SVN_Builds#Enhanced_SVN_builds

It's the first one by Wengier. I personally haven't checked it yet, so I
can't comment.

On 12/13/2015 10:54 AM, JJ wrote:
On Sun, 13 Dec 2015 06:54:22 -0500, John wrote:
On 12/13/2015 6:48 AM, John wrote:

It sounds as though you are well versed in DOSBox so ...

I use DosBox in Win7 Pro at work to run a few 16 bit DOS programs that
are not available in 32 or 64 bit form.

These are graphics based programs displayed on a 24" LCD and its very
hard to see detail due to the tiny little window generated by DOS 640 x
320 resolution within the window. These are not games but custom
programs that display CNC scripts used to control machinery (mills,
lathes and the like).

1. Is there a way to expand DosBox's window to a readable size?

2. Is there a long file name support add-on that can be used in DosBox?

VMWare and VirtualBox need a 2nd license key for Win2K or XP which
unfortunately is not available for this commercial environment. In any
event temporary experiments have shown similar problems.

Thanks,
John




Oops .. make that 640x480 Dos resolution.

John

1. You'll need to change the graphics output mode to other than Surface.
i.e. either Overlay, OpenGL, or DirectDraw. Surface mode doesn't support
upscaling. Overlay mode works best for older video adapters (that have low
performance or lack of feature). OpenGL mode works best for newer and faster
video adapters. OpenGL's upscaling produces sharper image than Overlay (may
depend on video adapter's 3D settings), but takes more GPU processing power
(relatively slower than Overlay). DirectDraw is supposed to work according
to DOSBox's wiki, but it doesn't work on my system (only Overlay and OpenGL
work). After the output mode is set, select the preferred Window Resolution
and optionally the Fullscreen Resolution settings. Note: the resolution
should be in 4:3 ratio.

For D.O.G.: Profiles Edit Profile Screen Screen Settings

For D-Fend Reloaded: Profile Edit... Hardware Graphics

The output mode setting in D-Fend Reloaded is labeled as Render.

For manual DOSBox config file, under [sdl] section, set both "output" and
"windowresolution" settings. e.g.:

windowresolution=1024x768
output=overlay

Below is the syntax for the above settings from the DOSBox wiki.

windowresolution = width x height | original | desktop
output = surface | overlay | opengl | openglnb | ddraw

http://www.dosbox.com/wiki/Dosbox.conf#.5Bsdl.5D

2. AFAIK, DOSBox supports Long File Name (LFN), but it's not out of the box.
It still require an LFN provider - presumably third party programs like
DOSLFN or even Windows 9x. There's an enhanced DOSBox build that has LFN
ready to use, that you might want to try.

http://www.dosbox.com/wiki/SVN_Builds#Enhanced_SVN_builds

It's the first one by Wengier. I personally haven't checked it yet, so I
can't comment.



Thank You. I will give all of the above a try.

John

On Tue, 15 Dec 2015 12:01:42 -0500, Wolf K
wrote:

[snip]

IMO, if you really need those 16-bit programs, the best solution is a
dedicated machine. Lots of good older hardware out there.

No. It will depend on the circumstances. I have 16-bit
utilities which I use in development. I need them running on my
development system.

Sincerely,

Gene Wirchenko

On 12/13/2015 10:54 AM, JJ wrote:
On Sun, 13 Dec 2015 06:54:22 -0500, John wrote:
On 12/13/2015 6:48 AM, John wrote:

It sounds as though you are well versed in DOSBox so ...

I use DosBox in Win7 Pro at work to run a few 16 bit DOS programs that
are not available in 32 or 64 bit form.

These are graphics based programs displayed on a 24" LCD and its very
hard to see detail due to the tiny little window generated by DOS 640 x
320 resolution within the window. These are not games but custom
programs that display CNC scripts used to control machinery (mills,
lathes and the like).

1. Is there a way to expand DosBox's window to a readable size?

2. Is there a long file name support add-on that can be used in DosBox?

VMWare and VirtualBox need a 2nd license key for Win2K or XP which
unfortunately is not available for this commercial environment. In any
event temporary experiments have shown similar problems.

Thanks,
John




Oops .. make that 640x480 Dos resolution.

John

1. You'll need to change the graphics output mode to other than Surface.
i.e. either Overlay, OpenGL, or DirectDraw. Surface mode doesn't support
upscaling. Overlay mode works best for older video adapters (that have low
performance or lack of feature). OpenGL mode works best for newer and faster
video adapters. OpenGL's upscaling produces sharper image than Overlay (may
depend on video adapter's 3D settings), but takes more GPU processing power
(relatively slower than Overlay). DirectDraw is supposed to work according
to DOSBox's wiki, but it doesn't work on my system (only Overlay and OpenGL
work). After the output mode is set, select the preferred Window Resolution
and optionally the Fullscreen Resolution settings. Note: the resolution
should be in 4:3 ratio.

For D.O.G.: Profiles Edit Profile Screen Screen Settings

For D-Fend Reloaded: Profile Edit... Hardware Graphics

The output mode setting in D-Fend Reloaded is labeled as Render.

For manual DOSBox config file, under [sdl] section, set both "output" and
"windowresolution" settings. e.g.:

windowresolution=1024x768
output=overlay

Below is the syntax for the above settings from the DOSBox wiki.

windowresolution = width x height | original | desktop
output = surface | overlay | opengl | openglnb | ddraw

http://www.dosbox.com/wiki/Dosbox.conf#.5Bsdl.5D

2. AFAIK, DOSBox supports Long File Name (LFN), but it's not out of the box.
It still require an LFN provider - presumably third party programs like
DOSLFN or even Windows 9x. There's an enhanced DOSBox build that has LFN
ready to use, that you might want to try.

http://www.dosbox.com/wiki/SVN_Builds#Enhanced_SVN_builds

It's the first one by Wengier. I personally haven't checked it yet, so I
can't comment.

================================================== =

output=opengl

Did the trick. At 1024x768 the window is now large enough and sharp
enough for these tired old eyes, but not so large as to leave little
screen real estate for other windows.

I will be configuring a new build next month for a coworker and will try
out the LFN version at that time.

Thank you again,
John

On 12/15/2015 12:01 PM, Wolf K wrote:
On 2015-12-15 09:37, John wrote:
On 12/13/2015 10:54 AM, JJ wrote:
On Sun, 13 Dec 2015 06:54:22 -0500, John wrote:
On 12/13/2015 6:48 AM, John wrote:

It sounds as though you are well versed in DOSBox so ...

I use DosBox in Win7 Pro at work to run a few 16 bit DOS programs that
are not available in 32 or 64 bit form.

These are graphics based programs displayed on a 24" LCD and its very
hard to see detail due to the tiny little window generated by DOS
640 x
320 resolution within the window. These are not games but custom
programs that display CNC scripts used to control machinery (mills,
lathes and the like).

1. Is there a way to expand DosBox's window to a readable size?

2. Is there a long file name support add-on that can be used in
DosBox?

VMWare and VirtualBox need a 2nd license key for Win2K or XP which
unfortunately is not available for this commercial environment. In any
event temporary experiments have shown similar problems.

Thanks,
John




Oops .. make that 640x480 Dos resolution.

John

1. You'll need to change the graphics output mode to other than Surface.
i.e. either Overlay, OpenGL, or DirectDraw. Surface mode doesn't support
upscaling. Overlay mode works best for older video adapters (that
have low
performance or lack of feature). OpenGL mode works best for newer and
faster
video adapters. OpenGL's upscaling produces sharper image than
Overlay (may
depend on video adapter's 3D settings), but takes more GPU processing
power
(relatively slower than Overlay). DirectDraw is supposed to work
according
to DOSBox's wiki, but it doesn't work on my system (only Overlay and
OpenGL
work). After the output mode is set, select the preferred Window
Resolution
and optionally the Fullscreen Resolution settings. Note: the resolution
should be in 4:3 ratio.

For D.O.G.: Profiles Edit Profile Screen Screen Settings

For D-Fend Reloaded: Profile Edit... Hardware Graphics

The output mode setting in D-Fend Reloaded is labeled as Render.

For manual DOSBox config file, under [sdl] section, set both "output"
and
"windowresolution" settings. e.g.:

windowresolution=1024x768
output=overlay

Below is the syntax for the above settings from the DOSBox wiki.

windowresolution = width x height | original | desktop
output = surface | overlay | opengl | openglnb | ddraw

http://www.dosbox.com/wiki/Dosbox.conf#.5Bsdl.5D

2. AFAIK, DOSBox supports Long File Name (LFN), but it's not out of
the box.
It still require an LFN provider - presumably third party programs like
DOSLFN or even Windows 9x. There's an enhanced DOSBox build that has LFN
ready to use, that you might want to try.

http://www.dosbox.com/wiki/SVN_Builds#Enhanced_SVN_builds

It's the first one by Wengier. I personally haven't checked it yet, so I
can't comment.



Thank You. I will give all of the above a try.

John

=================================================

IMO, if you really need those 16-bit programs, the best solution is a
dedicated machine. Lots of good older hardware out there.

Yea we have some old units about but there are other considerations that
make it impractical to implement in a business environment. For
example, the IT manager won't abide unsupported networked operating
systems, otherwise XP and a machine with a CRT could do the job nicely.

Sneaker net is no fun and my desk isn't large enough for two machines
anyway.

Thanks,
John

On Wed, 16 Dec 2015 01:08:22 -0500, John wrote:

Yea we have some old units about but there are other considerations that
make it impractical to implement in a business environment. For
example, the IT manager won't abide unsupported networked operating
systems, otherwise XP and a machine with a CRT could do the job nicely.

Sneaker net is no fun and my desk isn't large enough for two machines
anyway.

Wouldn't it be more efficient to use LCD than CRT?
You know... for business' sake.

Besides, those CRTs always looks like they're about to blow up each time
they turn on, especially the bigger ones.

On Wed, 16 Dec 2015 01:08:22 -0500, John wrote:

[snip]

Sneaker net is no fun and my desk isn't large enough for two machines
anyway.

You may need a larger desk.

Until my XP system died, I had two systems on my desk, and
occasionally, I would also use my laptop on my desk. I have a KVM
switch so the second desktop system was only another tower box.

Sincerely,

Gene Wirchenko

JJ wrote:
On Wed, 16 Dec 2015 01:08:22 -0500, John wrote:
Yea we have some old units about but there are other considerations that
make it impractical to implement in a business environment. For
example, the IT manager won't abide unsupported networked operating
systems, otherwise XP and a machine with a CRT could do the job nicely.

Sneaker net is no fun and my desk isn't large enough for two machines
anyway.

Wouldn't it be more efficient to use LCD than CRT?
You know... for business' sake.

Besides, those CRTs always looks like they're about to blow up each time
they turn on, especially the bigger ones.

That's the sound of the automatic degauss
on the CRT that you're hearing. If they didn't
have the degauss feature, you'd likely hear little
when it started up.

And not all CRTs have degauss. You've probably seen
or owned some, that didn't make a noise at startup.

Paul

On 12/16/2015 5:03 AM, JJ wrote:
On Wed, 16 Dec 2015 01:08:22 -0500, John wrote:

Yea we have some old units about but there are other considerations that
make it impractical to implement in a business environment. For
example, the IT manager won't abide unsupported networked operating
systems, otherwise XP and a machine with a CRT could do the job nicely.

Sneaker net is no fun and my desk isn't large enough for two machines
anyway.

Wouldn't it be more efficient to use LCD than CRT?
You know... for business' sake.

Besides, those CRTs always looks like they're about to blow up each time
they turn on, especially the bigger ones.



LCD's are too wide, 640 x 480 is distorted, accuracy counts.

John

On 12/16/2015 01:00 PM, John wrote:

[snip]

LCD's are too wide, 640 x 480 is distorted, accuracy counts.

John

I used to have a 4:3 LCD monitor, and wish I still did.

--
9 days until the winter celebration (Friday December 25, 2015 12:00:00
AM for 1 day).

Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us/

"If the Bible is telling the truth, then God is either untruthful or
incompetent. If God is truthful, then the Bible is either untruthful or
erroneous." [Rev. Donald Morgan, Atheologian]

On Wed, 16 Dec 2015 14:00:44 -0500, John wrote:


LCD's are too wide, 640 x 480 is distorted, accuracy counts.


No resolution is distorted. If you look at a screen with a particular
resolution and what you see is distorted, it's because you are running
the video card at the wrong resolution setting, or because the
particular video card doesn't support that size screen.

In message , JJ
writes:
On Wed, 16 Dec 2015 01:08:22 -0500, John wrote:

Yea we have some old units about but there are other considerations that
make it impractical to implement in a business environment. For
example, the IT manager won't abide unsupported networked operating
systems, otherwise XP and a machine with a CRT could do the job nicely.

Sneaker net is no fun and my desk isn't large enough for two machines
anyway.

Wouldn't it be more efficient to use LCD than CRT?

I think John was just meaning it didn't need to be anything special.

You know... for business' sake.

I fear energy is still cheap enough that from a strictly business point
of view, the differential energy cost would take a year or two to come
to the cost of a new LCD monitor - and that's continuous running.

Besides, those CRTs always looks like they're about to blow up each time
they turn on, especially the bigger ones.


Like the others who followed up, I assume you mean sounds rather than
looks: and I'd agree you're probably hearing the degauss. (If you _do_
mean looks, please elucidate.)

I have a CRT I've been using daily for at least a couple of decades (my
telly); I am aware of ones that still work which were made before the
war (e. g. the one under the dog on
http://www.bvwtm.org.uk/tour/photos2.htm), though they're only turned on
to demonstrate they work.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Science fiction is escape into reality - Arthur C Clarke

In message , Mark Lloyd
writes:
On 12/16/2015 01:00 PM, John wrote:

[snip]

LCD's are too wide, 640 x 480 is distorted, accuracy counts.

John

I used to have a 4:3 LCD monitor, and wish I still did.

I still do, including at work (a 19" I think); I've declined "up"grades
to keep it that way. For anything but watching videos, I much prefer a
4:3. (I haven't got room for extra monitors.)
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Science fiction is escape into reality - Arthur C Clarke