Help me understand

I have a tablet with 32GB main storage and a laptop with 1TB main storage.

On each there are two partitions that are inaccessable. They are called
Disk 0 Partition 1 and Disk 0 Partition 4 Partition 1 on both computers
is 260MB Partition 4 is 980MB on the TB drive and 449MB on the 32GB
storage.

How does Windows 10 use these partitions?

Can they be deleted?


--
2018: The year we learn to play the great game of Euchre

Keith Nuttle wrote:

Partition 1 on both computers is 260MB

That's the system partition, it is needed to boot from

Partition 4 is 980MB on the TB drive and 449MB on the 32GB storage.

sounds like a recovery partition, needed if you want to do a factory
reset, without using e.g. a bootable USB drive or DVD

Can they be deleted?

"No" and "If you're desperate for space" respectively ...

On 3/2/2018 12:37 PM, Keith Nuttle wrote:
I have a tablet with 32GB main storage and a laptop with 1TB main storage.

On each there are two partitions that are inaccessable.Â* They are called
Disk 0 Partition 1 and Disk 0 Partition 4Â* Partition 1 on both computers
is 260MBÂ* Partition 4 is 980MB on the TB drive and 449MB on the 32GB
storage.

How does Windows 10 use these partitions?

Can they be deleted?


The simple answer is, if you have to ask, the answer is "no". Most of
the problems I've seen in this ng are caused by people trying to
"outsmart" Windows with little or no understanding of how or why it does
things.

--
best regards,

Neil

On 02-Mar-2018 16:19, Neil wrote:
On 3/2/2018 12:37 PM, Keith Nuttle wrote:
I have a tablet with 32GB main storage and a laptop with 1TB main
storage.

On each there are two partitions that are inaccessable.* They are
called Disk 0 Partition 1 and Disk 0 Partition 4* Partition 1 on both
computers is 260MB* Partition 4 is 980MB on the TB drive and 449MB on
the 32GB storage.

How does Windows 10 use these partitions?

Can they be deleted?


The simple answer is, if you have to ask, the answer is "no". Most of
the problems I've seen in this ng are caused by people trying to
"outsmart" Windows with little or no understanding of how or why it does
things.


Ditto to that.
If it ain't broke don't fix it.

Keith Nuttle wrote:
I have a tablet with 32GB main storage and a laptop with 1TB main storage.

On each there are two partitions that are inaccessable. They are called
Disk 0 Partition 1 and Disk 0 Partition 4 Partition 1 on both computers
is 260MB Partition 4 is 980MB on the TB drive and 449MB on the 32GB
storage.

How does Windows 10 use these partitions?

Can they be deleted?

You shouldn't delete anything without verifying what is in there.

To get basic file system info, you can use DiskPart.
This is the system I'm going to be examining.

https://s10.postimg.org/rn9ry2zx5/disk_management.gif

*******

In an Administrator Command Prompt window

diskpart
list disk # Disk numbering starts from 0
select disk 1
list partition # Partition numbering starts from 1
select partition 2 # My Recovery Partition is 2
detail partition
exit

That tells me

Partition: 2
Type: 27
Hidden: Yes

And that's why we're not allowed to explore inside.
The Hidden type is supposed to deny user access while
the OS is running. In a sense, it keeps the partition read-only.

You can decode the "Type" value using this.

http://www.win.tue.nl/~aeb/partition...n_types-1.html

*******

OK, so it won't mount, because it's hidden. It really is NTFS inside.
The "7" on the last digit of "Type" helps hint that it's NTFS.

When the OS is booting, it frequently mounts partitions like
that and is looking inside. It's only when the OS is "up" that
the partitions are dis-mounted. This prevents System Restore
from writing restore points inside them.

So there's really no problem looking inside. They're NTFS.
If we could get in there and parse them, they'd still be
NTFS. So how do we solve that ?

*******

TestDisk will let us look. But TestDisk has an ncurses-like interface
and using this is an "acquired taste".

https://www.cgsecurity.org/wiki/TestDisk_Download

This is my result, using the "List Files" capability of TestDisk.

https://s10.postimg.org/piugui9vd/testdisk.gif

I'm not going to go into the details of that one, because
of the fairly dangerous interface. It takes a while getting
used to that one. Pressing ctrl-C at any time in that program,
allows you to escape without hurting anything. But if you select
the option to re-write the MBR, that's on your head :-(

*******

Another way to get in there, is more work, but it's safer.

1) Install and use Macrium Reflect Free.

2) Make a backup of the disk. Select only the partitions
you want to look in, to reduce backup time. It only took
two seconds to back up my hidden 450MB partition.

3) Once the backup is finished, you have a .mrimg file.
Only Macrium can look in there. But, the miscellaneous menu
has a "Convert to VHD" option. Use that, and convert the
.mrimg file to a .vhd.

4) Next, use 7ZIP.

7ZIP installs a right-click context menu entry.

Select "open archive" while right-clicking the .vhd file.

The partitions inside the .vhd file will be labeled.

0.ntfs
1.ntfs

Click the one you're interested in, and select "Open inside".
Since I backed up only 1.ntfs, 0.ntfs is empty and cannot be examined.
But 1.ntfs, I can look in there, because I filled it during backup.

The files should be visible.

This requires 7ZIP version 16.04 or higher. The older versions
were a bit slower, as they insisted on unpacking the partition
and this causes the OS to swap to the pagefile (eventually).
It was trying to put the entire NTFS partition in RAM (bad boy!).
The newer versions of 7ZIP are better.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7zip

That's one of the first programs I install on every OS.
It's my Swiss Army Knife.

Here is the result, for the above demonstration partition.
I backed up the small partition, convert mrimg to vhd, and
this is what I find with 7ZIP.

https://s10.postimg.org/rib2lmm3t/7_...ects_a_VHD.gif

So those are some examples of looking inside a partition
that is Hidden. While in the past I might have used
PTEDIT32 to fix this, PTEDIT32.exe only works on MBR
disks, and we know yours is GPT and not a candidate
for surgery.

The TestDisk is more likely to let you in there for
a look, but be careful. If I had the old filmstrip
capability on PostImg, I'd make you a filmstrip showing
what to do. But they broke that and I cannot make
multi-step procedures any more in a giant GIF file.
I'm effectively limited to 1024x768 images.

Paul

Keith Nuttle wrote in
news
I have a tablet with 32GB main storage and a laptop with 1TB main
storage.

On each there are two partitions that are inaccessable. They are
called Disk 0 Partition 1 and Disk 0 Partition 4 Partition 1 on both
computers is 260MB Partition 4 is 980MB on the TB drive and 449MB on
the 32GB storage.

How does Windows 10 use these partitions?

Can they be deleted?


Are these disks MBR or GPT? My understanding is that in either case the
first partition of the disk is reserved space used to manage the disk
structure, in whatever way I don't know.

Partition 4 does not have a name or drive letter does it. That is a
recovery partition set up by Windows 10. It is used when you need to
recover/repair a FUBAR Windows systme. One of the uses is when you decide
to need to restart the Windows installation while maintaining your data.
That process pulls the pertinent Windows files from the recovery
partition and uses them to replace the possibly FUBARed files in the
existing system structure.

Are you really so cramped for disk space that 449MB is going to make a
difference. You can't touch partition 1. It is put there when the disk is
formatted and is necessary for the file system on the disk to function
properly. If you really, really, really need an extra 449MB you can
delete partition 4, but then you severely restrict your options if your
system goes south.

On 3/3/2018 1:38 AM, Tim wrote:
Keith Nuttle wrote in
news
I have a tablet with 32GB main storage and a laptop with 1TB main
storage.

On each there are two partitions that are inaccessable. They are
called Disk 0 Partition 1 and Disk 0 Partition 4 Partition 1 on both
computers is 260MB Partition 4 is 980MB on the TB drive and 449MB on
the 32GB storage.

How does Windows 10 use these partitions?

Can they be deleted?


Are these disks MBR or GPT? My understanding is that in either case the
first partition of the disk is reserved space used to manage the disk
structure, in whatever way I don't know.

Partition 4 does not have a name or drive letter does it. That is a
recovery partition set up by Windows 10. It is used when you need to
recover/repair a FUBAR Windows systme. One of the uses is when you decide
to need to restart the Windows installation while maintaining your data.
That process pulls the pertinent Windows files from the recovery
partition and uses them to replace the possibly FUBARed files in the
existing system structure.

Are you really so cramped for disk space that 449MB is going to make a
difference. You can't touch partition 1. It is put there when the disk is
formatted and is necessary for the file system on the disk to function
properly. If you really, really, really need an extra 449MB you can
delete partition 4, but then you severely restrict your options if your
system goes south.

On my laptop and Desktop; No. However my tablet with 32GB main storage
is a continuing problem. I have use portable versions of my programs,
and am continually looking for ways to gain more space in the main storage.

--
2018: The year we learn to play the great game of Euchre

On 3/3/2018 9:21 AM, Wolf K wrote:
On 2018-03-03 08:51, Keith Nuttle wrote:
On 3/3/2018 1:38 AM, Tim wrote:
[...]
Are you really so cramped for disk space that 449MB is going to make a
difference. You can't touch partition 1. It is put there when the
disk is
formatted and is necessary for the file system on the disk to function
properly. If you really, really, really need an extra 449MB you can
delete partition 4, but then you severely restrict your options if your
system goes south.

On my laptop and Desktop; No.Â*Â* However my tablet with 32GB main
storage is a continuing problem.Â*Â* I have use portable versions of my
programs, and am continually looking for ways to gain more space in
the main storage.


Not surprised. The tablet isn't intended for serious work, just email
and Skype and a bit of browsing. Maybe reading e-books. If it has a USB
port, or micro-card slot, you can add storage for data.

FWIW, I shelled out for a Surface 2 Pro because it's a PC in a tablet
form factor. Added 64GB micro-card, and have more storage than I need.

Good luck,

My tablet while small, is a Windows 10 computer for all intents and
purposes. I serves the purpose I intended that of carrying essential
information and as a brief case for documents for meetings. It has
Wordperfect Office, Adobe Reader, Thunderbird and Firefox.

My problem is not total storage as I have 32GB as drive D:, but space on
the 32GB main drive so that the updates can occur.

I am amazed they are selling tablets with Windows 10 and 32GB main drive
and only 5 GB of free. The new owner will always have problems with the
computer every time that MS tries to push an upgrade into the computer.

--
2018: The year we learn to play the great game of Euchre

Keith Nuttle wrote:
[...]
My tablet while small, is a Windows 10 computer for all intents and
purposes. I serves the purpose I intended that of carrying essential
information and as a brief case for documents for meetings. It has
Wordperfect Office, Adobe Reader, Thunderbird and Firefox.

My problem is not total storage as I have 32GB as drive D:, but space on
the 32GB main drive so that the updates can occur.

I am amazed they are selling tablets with Windows 10 and 32GB main drive
and only 5 GB of free. The new owner will always have problems with the
computer every time that MS tries to push an upgrade into the computer.

Well, they saw how phone makers sold '4GB' Android phones with less
than 1GB (not) 'free' *excluding* the built-in apps and thought "We can
do that too!"! :-) c.q. :-(

On 3/2/2018 9:37 AM, Keith Nuttle wrote:
I have a tablet with 32GB main storage and a laptop with 1TB main storage.

On each there are two partitions that are inaccessable. They are called
Disk 0 Partition 1 and Disk 0 Partition 4 Partition 1 on both computers
is 260MB Partition 4 is 980MB on the TB drive and 449MB on the 32GB
storage.

How does Windows 10 use these partitions?

Can they be deleted?


spoiler alert...
Unless you're willing to reinstall, you're screwed.
You're probably screwed then too...but read on.

Windows 7 NOT secure boot, MBR
If you let the installer partition/format the drive, you get extra
partitions.
If you have any free space, you get extra partitions.
If you use linux to format the partitions you want and fill up
the drive, win7 will install without adding any new ones.
I do that, install win7, sysprep it and use the sysprep to
install elsewhere.

Windows 10
I tried this in win10.
Win10 insisted on shrinking my C: partition and creating another.
When I upgraded win7 to win10, it seems that happened without
creating any new partitions. I don't have any systems I can use
to verify that assumption. Some of my win10 systems have both
a boot and a recovery partition. No idea how that happened.

I think that you get two extra partitions with EFI, secure boot
or GPT, but I avoid all those like the plague.

My systems have enough storage that I don't worry about it.
I'm more concerned that I can have only four primary partitions.
All my systems need two.
The OS wasting two of four is annoying.
I had to switch from multiboot to plug-in drives.

UPDATES
I can't give you a link, but there's a tutorial on the web
(IIRC, it's on the Microsoft site.)
telling you how to insert a thumb drive/memory card to add
temporary memory to be used by the update process.
I have never tried it.

Are we having fun yet?