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Is there a database online for the number of shop hours a car repair should take?



 
 
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  #16  
Old December 11th 17, 10:40 AM posted to alt.home.repair,rec.autos.tech,alt.windows7.general
Frank S[_2_]
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Posts: 39
Default Is there a database online for the number of shop hours a car repair should take?

In news Ken said:

You might try:
http://www.napaautocare.com/Estimato...r p_zc=72210#


Thanks Ken,

That's a nice site which is probably what *most* people want.
a. Cost for the job
b. Cost for the part.

So I understand why that site is useful to *other* people.

But it's the exact *opposite* of what I want.
I don't want the final cost (that's easy) nor the parts cost (that's easy).

What I'm looking for is the number of hours only.
(The rest is just simple math.)
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  #17  
Old December 11th 17, 11:02 AM posted to alt.home.repair,rec.autos.tech,alt.windows7.general
Frank S[_2_]
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Default Is there a database online for the number of shop hours a car repair should take?

In news Scott Dorsey said:

It's published by Chilton's. It costs money. You can probably find it
at your local library if you have a good public library with a good set
of Chilton's. If you ask nicely, your mechanic might let you look at it.


I guess that means it's not *online* then....
  #18  
Old December 11th 17, 11:02 AM posted to alt.home.repair,rec.autos.tech,alt.windows7.general
Frank S[_2_]
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Default Is there a database online for the number of shop hours a car repair should take?

In ,
pjp said:

I'd be surprised if any such page exists that would/could remain valid
for entire country. Too much "local" pressures etc.


A job takes the same amount of time in every part of the country.

I'm seeking what is hard to find - which is why I asked.
1. It's a source of TIME (not money!) time for each job
2. It's online

I know the paper books exist. It's what shops use to look the time up.
Then they simply charge the time by their shop rate.

It may not exist online - but what I'm asking for is the time.

I just want the flat rate time. Online. If it exists.
  #19  
Old December 11th 17, 11:02 AM posted to alt.home.repair,rec.autos.tech,alt.windows7.general
Frank S[_2_]
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Default Is there a database online for the number of shop hours a car repair should take?

In ,
Clare Snyder said:

There is a time for a water pump, and there is a time for a timing
belt - and there is an "add-on" time for common combinations. You
might see 2.6 for a water pump. and 3.3 for a timing belt - with an
"add-on" to the timing belt of .3 for the water puimp - or possibly an
extra 1.0 because to replace the timing belkt does not require opening
the cooling system, while changing the water pump does. The numbers
will often be different for w or w/o AC, ot from automatic to standard
trtans because of complications involved with the different options.


You seem to know more than everyone else, as this is all true.
It's complicated how any one shop charges the time.
But that's not what I'm asking.

I just want the flat rate time. Online. If it exists.

SOME shops ARE crooks and bill the full time for the timing belt plus
the full time for the water pump. But then there are plumbers and
electricians that overcharge too - not to mention Lawyers and
accountants.


Yes. I know about this where you explained it well that there is a flat
rate for the water pump, and a flat rate for the timing belt, but if you do
them both, then there are two ways to calculate the flat rate.

I just want the flat rate time. Online. If it exists.
  #20  
Old December 11th 17, 11:06 AM posted to alt.home.repair,rec.autos.tech,alt.windows7.general
Frank S[_2_]
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Posts: 39
Default Is there a database online for the number of shop hours a car repair should take?

In news AMuzi said:

Chilton's doesn't express a value for dollars, just time.


That's *exactly* what I want.

a. Time.
b. Online.

Does it exist?
  #21  
Old December 11th 17, 11:06 AM posted to alt.home.repair,rec.autos.tech,alt.windows7.general
Frank S[_2_]
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Posts: 39
Default Is there a database online for the number of shop hours a car repair should take?

In ,
Clare Snyder said:

There is a time for a water pump, and there is a time for a timing
belt - and there is an "add-on" time for common combinations. You
might see 2.6 for a water pump. and 3.3 for a timing belt - with an
"add-on" to the timing belt of .3 for the water puimp - or possibly an
extra 1.0 because to replace the timing belkt does not require opening
the cooling system, while changing the water pump does. The numbers
will often be different for w or w/o AC, ot from automatic to standard
trtans because of complications involved with the different options.


You seem to know more than everyone else, as this is all true.
It's complicated how any one shop charges the time.
But that's not what I'm asking.

I just want the flat rate time. Online. If it exists.

SOME shops ARE crooks and bill the full time for the timing belt plus
the full time for the water pump. But then there are plumbers and
electricians that overcharge too - not to mention Lawyers and
accountants.


Yes. I know about this where you explained it well that there is a flat
rate for the water pump, and a flat rate for the timing belt, but if you do
them both, then there are two ways to calculate the flat rate.

I just want the flat rate time. Online. If it exists.
  #22  
Old December 11th 17, 11:06 AM posted to alt.home.repair,rec.autos.tech,alt.windows7.general
Frank S[_2_]
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Posts: 39
Default Is there a database online for the number of shop hours a car repair should take?

In ,
Clare Snyder said:

Pure "flat rate" you get paid the labout units in the book - period.
You wiun some, you lose some. A good mechanic, over-all, wins more
than he loses.


You seem to understand the flat rate the best.
The only thing I'd clarify is the "win" just means he *beat* the time.
He still gets paid what he should if he does the job in the flat rate time.

I just want the flat rate time. Online. If it exists.
(I understand that it may not exist online - that's why I asked.)
  #23  
Old December 11th 17, 11:09 AM posted to alt.home.repair,rec.autos.tech,alt.windows7.general
Frank S[_2_]
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Posts: 39
Default Is there a database online for the number of shop hours a car repair should take?

In ,
Ed Pawlowski said:

The Flat Rte manual gives time, not dollars so it is valid anywhere.


Exactly.

Most mechanics can beat the times, especially the second time they do
the job and yes, many shops pay that rate no matter how long it takes.


Of course.

What I dislike about their fixed cost repair arrangements is that if it
doesn't take that long we are giving them money for nothing but if it
takes longer you can be damn sure it's tacked onto the bill. And Yes I'm
sure if there's three separate repairs that they charge you for three
hours yet it's done in two saves you nothing but does put money in their
pocket for nothing.


Correct in most cases. If replacing a timing belt there us usually an
add on for the water pump at the same time though.


I understand that most shops just add it all up. That's OK.
I just want the flat rate time. Online. If it exists.
  #24  
Old December 11th 17, 11:09 AM posted to alt.home.repair,rec.autos.tech,alt.windows7.general
Frank S[_2_]
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Posts: 39
Default Is there a database online for the number of shop hours a car repair should take?

In news Clare Snyder said:

There is "chilton time" and there is "factory time".


I'll take either time.

Dealers use "factory time" for most late model vehicles - and factory
time is generally pretty scimpy compared to Chiltons (or Motors, or
whatever "aftermarket" flat rates exist.)


I'll assume "factory time" is shorter than "Chilton time".

The independents charge "chilton time"


That's exactly what I'm seeking.
a. Time
b. Online

Also, the "book time" isn't tecninally "hours" - it is "labour units"
- which compare closely to the number of hours an experienced mechanic
with the proper tools will take tio do the job, A mechanic who has
done the job many times should ALWAYS be able to do the job in fewer
actual hours - while an apprentice or mechanic unfamilliar with the
job will take more time.


I'm ok with any units that equate to the time you multiply times the shop
rate.

So if it's in labor units, that's fine since that equates to average time
anyway.

But does it exist online?

I just want the flat rate time. Online. If it exists.
  #25  
Old December 11th 17, 11:09 AM posted to alt.home.repair,rec.autos.tech,alt.windows7.general
Frank S[_2_]
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Posts: 39
Default Is there a database online for the number of shop hours a car repair should take?

In news Rene Lamontagne said:

Try Chilton manuals
, Used to be our source waybackwhen.


The original question asks for a database *online* for the shop hours for
any given job.

I know Mitchells has it in paper manuals but I'm seeking an *online*
source.

I just want the flat rate time. Online. If it exists.
  #26  
Old December 11th 17, 11:11 AM posted to alt.home.repair,rec.autos.tech,alt.windows7.general
Frank S[_2_]
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Posts: 39
Default Is there a database online for the number of shop hours a car repair should take?

In news Ken Springer said:

Environmental fees, IE vapor control, cleaning solvent replacement, shop
rags, all the other mandated regulations that must be followed.

The average person simply has no clue any more, since most never grew up
tinkering on cars in the back yard.


I am only asking about time. Online.
  #27  
Old December 11th 17, 11:25 AM posted to alt.home.repair,rec.autos.tech,alt.windows7.general
Frank S[_2_]
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Posts: 39
Default Is there a database online for the number of shop hours a car repair should take?

In ,
micky said:

I hate to bring up my blown engine again, but when I had my car towed
into the shop last summer, he charged me about $90 for diagnosing the
problem -- that's his standard rate -- even though I figure he knew what
the problem was in 1 minute, just based on the sound.


1. All jobs have an *expected* flat rate time.
2. The flat rate time is published in a manual somewhere.
3. Every shop has access to that flat rate time manual (whether it's
Chiltons or Mitchells or All Data or the factory KSD).

Yes I am fully aware that some mechanics easily *beat* that flat rate time
and some mechanics take *longer* than that flat rate time - but the
mechanics still charge at the same flat rate time.

Yes. I am fully aware that to do a waterpump takes X flat rate time and to
do a timing belt takes Y flat rate time and do to them both does NOT take X
+ Y flat rate time.

Yes. I am fully aware that some shops still charge the X flat rate time
plus the Y flat rate time, while others charge X flat rate time plus
some-fraction-of Y flat rate time.

I'm fully aware of all this.
None of that is the question.

I wasn't aware that there is "dealer" flat rate time and "factory" flat
rate time, but that's just a complication that I can deal with depending on
what flat rate time I do find online.

What I don't know is WHERE to get the flat rate time online.
It might not exist online.

But that's why I ask.
  #28  
Old December 11th 17, 02:25 PM posted to alt.home.repair,rec.autos.tech,alt.windows7.general
Micky
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Default Is there a database online for the number of shop hours a car repair should take?

In alt.home.repair, on Mon, 11 Dec 2017 23:25:56 +1300, Frank S
wrote:

In ,
micky said:

I hate to bring up my blown engine again, but when I had my car towed
into the shop last summer, he charged me about $90 for diagnosing the
problem -- that's his standard rate -- even though I figure he knew what
the problem was in 1 minute, just based on the sound.


1. All jobs have an *expected* flat rate time.
2. The flat rate time is published in a manual somewhere.
3. Every shop has access to that flat rate time manual (whether it's
Chiltons or Mitchells or All Data or the factory KSD).

Yes I am fully aware that some mechanics easily *beat* that flat rate time
and some mechanics take *longer* than that flat rate time - but the
mechanics still charge at the same flat rate time.

Yes. I am fully aware that to do a waterpump takes X flat rate time and to
do a timing belt takes Y flat rate time and do to them both does NOT take X
+ Y flat rate time.

Yes. I am fully aware that some shops still charge the X flat rate time
plus the Y flat rate time, while others charge X flat rate time plus
some-fraction-of Y flat rate time.

I'm fully aware of all this.
None of that is the question.

I wasn't aware that there is "dealer" flat rate time and "factory" flat
rate time, but that's just a complication that I can deal with depending on
what flat rate time I do find online.

What I don't know is WHERE to get the flat rate time online.
It might not exist online.

But that's why I ask.


Did you google flat rate manual ?

this is the 5th hit for me:
http://www.autorepairmanuals.biz/page/134522

As little as $55 if your car was made in 1977 or earlier

$112 for 2005.

Though I do wonder about this, 2005 Child Labor Guide CD-ROM
http://www.autorepairmanuals.biz/product/1401878180

In the 60's, all there was was the book, and I had no idea where to get
that, or how to pay the equivalent of $880
  #29  
Old December 11th 17, 03:02 PM posted to alt.home.repair,rec.autos.tech,alt.windows7.general
Ed Pawlowski
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Posts: 5
Default Is there a database online for the number of shop hours a carrepair should take?

On 12/10/2017 10:04 PM, Ken Springer wrote:


Besides the mechanic's pay rate, add in employer matching
taxes, fees, licenses, inspections, insurance, rent,
property tax, supplies, fixtures, advertising and so on.


Environmental fees, IE vapor control, cleaning solvent replacement, shop
rags, all the other mandated regulations that must be followed.

The average person simply has no clue any more, since most never grew up
tinkering on cars in the back yard.


Those charges **** me off. Sure, they are real costs but so is
insurance, lighting, the water bill. It should be included in the shop
rate. They don't charge me different depending on whether or not the
mechanic had to flush the toilet while working on my car.

Most dealers have those charges built in as a percentage of the charges,
not based on actual use. Give me the rags and I'll take them to dispose
of them.
  #30  
Old December 11th 17, 03:41 PM posted to alt.home.repair,rec.autos.tech,alt.windows7.general
AMuzi
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Default Is there a database online for the number of shop hours a carrepair should take?

On 12/11/2017 4:06 AM, Frank S wrote:
In news AMuzi said:

Chilton's doesn't express a value for dollars, just time.


That's *exactly* what I want.

a. Time.
b. Online.

Does it exist?


It sure does, as others have linked. But it's a compendium
of data from Chilton's or whoever for which they
(rightfully) charge a fee.

Nothing stops you from looking at your watch, doing the job
yourself and then looking at your watch again. If you want
a more convenient answer, buy a flat-rate manual.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


 




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