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#1
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Defrag
I have defrag on my desktop because I originally had W7, but it no
longer has drive C: on the menu, only drive Z:, which does not get fragged, and something else I do not understand. Is there anything I can do about this? -- Myth, after all, is what we believe naturally. History is what we must painfully learn and struggle to remember. -Albert Goldman |
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#2
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Defrag
Martin Edwards wrote:
only drive Z: Have you replaced the HD with an SSD? |
#3
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Defrag
On 3/4/2018 1:11 PM, Andy Burns wrote:
Martin Edwards wrote: only drive Z: Have you replaced the HD with an SSD? No. -- Myth, after all, is what we believe naturally. History is what we must painfully learn and struggle to remember. -Albert Goldman |
#4
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Defrag
Martin Edwards wrote:
I have defrag on my desktop because I originally had W7, but it no longer has drive C: on the menu, only drive Z:, which does not get fragged, and something else I do not understand. Is there anything I can do about this? Right-click the window thing (Start) in the lower left corner. That should give the right-click menu. In there is "Disk Management". When you run it, it looks like this. https://s10.postimg.org/ufmg4nxcp/disk_management.gif (Picture was taken with snippingtool.exe . Picture was uploaded to https://postimage.org/index.php?um=flash Notice how the OS partition has all the "badges of honor" in my picture. Where are all the badges of honor in your picture ? Do your drive letters make sense ? ******* I'm having trouble with the Windows 10 Insider edition. It is installed on a HDD, yet when I go to the Optimize window to try to defragment, all the options offered say "TRIM", as if the any devices are SSDs. This is wrong. And I can't fix it. Attempts to defragment (even using the command line) cause the command to return immediately with no work done. If I run JKDefrag, the disk is corrupted later. In other words, be careful what you wish for. If you see symptoms similar to this, back up the drive to external storage, before using a third-party defragmenter. I think the symptoms indicate the problem is at the OS level, with the third-party defragmenter being "tricked" into making things worse. I was able to repair the damage... purely by luck. The Windows 10 Release version is not doing that. But given the problem with the Insider, and other evidence I could see in Google, this problem is not an isolated incident. And so far, no amount of fiddling with it, is making it ready to defragment. It doesn't seem to be a disk health issue, just some snit the software is in. One thread suggested it was a side effect of the Windows Performance tool benchmarking the drive, and deciding it was fast enough to be an SSD. And therefore, defrag should not be offered. This is bull****. I tried running the Performance thing manually, and there was no change in anything really. So that doesn't seem to be my root cause. And any idiot would not do SSD detection that way anyway - the SMART table has sufficient differences to tell you're on an SSD. Benching is not needed. Paul |
#5
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Defrag
Paul wrote in news
Martin Edwards wrote: I have defrag on my desktop because I originally had W7, but it no longer has drive C: on the menu, only drive Z:, which does not get fragged, and something else I do not understand. Is there anything I can do about this? Right-click the window thing (Start) in the lower left corner. That should give the right-click menu. In there is "Disk Management". When you run it, it looks like this. https://s10.postimg.org/ufmg4nxcp/disk_management.gif (Picture was taken with snippingtool.exe . Picture was uploaded to https://postimage.org/index.php?um=flash Notice how the OS partition has all the "badges of honor" in my picture. Where are all the badges of honor in your picture ? Do your drive letters make sense ? ******* I'm having trouble with the Windows 10 Insider edition. It is installed on a HDD, yet when I go to the Optimize window to try to defragment, all the options offered say "TRIM", as if the any devices are SSDs. This is wrong. And I can't fix it. Attempts to defragment (even using the command line) cause the command to return immediately with no work done. If I run JKDefrag, the disk is corrupted later. In other words, be careful what you wish for. If you see symptoms similar to this, back up the drive to external storage, before using a third-party defragmenter. I think the symptoms indicate the problem is at the OS level, with the third-party defragmenter being "tricked" into making things worse. I was able to repair the damage... purely by luck. The Windows 10 Release version is not doing that. But given the problem with the Insider, and other evidence I could see in Google, this problem is not an isolated incident. And so far, no amount of fiddling with it, is making it ready to defragment. It doesn't seem to be a disk health issue, just some snit the software is in. One thread suggested it was a side effect of the Windows Performance tool benchmarking the drive, and deciding it was fast enough to be an SSD. And therefore, defrag should not be offered. This is bull****. I tried running the Performance thing manually, and there was no change in anything really. So that doesn't seem to be my root cause. And any idiot would not do SSD detection that way anyway - the SMART table has sufficient differences to tell you're on an SSD. Benching is not needed. Paul You are knowledgeable enough to know that there are a lot of REAL idiots out there writing software, even the ones who are supposed to know better have been know to have Id 10 t moments. |
#6
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Defrag
KenW wrote:
On Tue, 06 Mar 2018 01:29:59 GMT, Tim wrote: Paul wrote in news Martin Edwards wrote: I have defrag on my desktop because I originally had W7, but it no longer has drive C: on the menu, only drive Z:, which does not get fragged, and something else I do not understand. Is there anything I can do about this? Right-click the window thing (Start) in the lower left corner. That should give the right-click menu. In there is "Disk Management". When you run it, it looks like this. https://s10.postimg.org/ufmg4nxcp/disk_management.gif (Picture was taken with snippingtool.exe . Picture was uploaded to https://postimage.org/index.php?um=flash Notice how the OS partition has all the "badges of honor" in my picture. Where are all the badges of honor in your picture ? Do your drive letters make sense ? ******* I'm having trouble with the Windows 10 Insider edition. It is installed on a HDD, yet when I go to the Optimize window to try to defragment, all the options offered say "TRIM", as if the any devices are SSDs. This is wrong. And I can't fix it. Attempts to defragment (even using the command line) cause the command to return immediately with no work done. If I run JKDefrag, the disk is corrupted later. In other words, be careful what you wish for. If you see symptoms similar to this, back up the drive to external storage, before using a third-party defragmenter. I think the symptoms indicate the problem is at the OS level, with the third-party defragmenter being "tricked" into making things worse. I was able to repair the damage... purely by luck. The Windows 10 Release version is not doing that. But given the problem with the Insider, and other evidence I could see in Google, this problem is not an isolated incident. And so far, no amount of fiddling with it, is making it ready to defragment. It doesn't seem to be a disk health issue, just some snit the software is in. One thread suggested it was a side effect of the Windows Performance tool benchmarking the drive, and deciding it was fast enough to be an SSD. And therefore, defrag should not be offered. This is bull****. I tried running the Performance thing manually, and there was no change in anything really. So that doesn't seem to be my root cause. And any idiot would not do SSD detection that way anyway - the SMART table has sufficient differences to tell you're on an SSD. Benching is not needed. Paul You are knowledgeable enough to know that there are a lot of REAL idiots out there writing software, even the ones who are supposed to know better have been know to have Id 10 t moments. Windows 10 with an ssd does a trim and not a old style defrag. KenW What worries me, is it looks like someone at Microsoft is "fooling around" with NTFS. This doesn't inspire confidence. On your rolling release, you can do many things, make new Emojis, make a new app for Facebook... but you don't go around "sawing off the branch you're standing on". This doesn't seem... prudent, whatever is going on in this case. I already see $MFTMIRR is malformed by Windows 10. What's next ? The evidence I'm seeing, seems to suggest in my case, the OS knows something is wrong, and that's why it's turned off defrag. But I can't spot what the issue is. And the MFTMIRR problem isn't fixing itself either. (MFTMIRR has been broken for longer than defrag, so that's not the blocker.) CHKDSK isn't armed to detect or fix what is going on it seems. I don't know what else to try, because of the limitations of any other NTFS file system drivers. None of them are particularly "official" and were created by reverse engineering. If someone else made a CHKDSK, maybe there'd be a way to get indirect evidence. Paul |
#7
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Defrag
Windows 10 with an ssd does a trim and not a old style defrag. KenW And Windows 10 also runs a 'good enough' defrag process in the background, so that third party defrag programs aren't needed. I tried running Defragler a couple times, but it made no noticable difference. It cleaned up a few of the more noticable fragmented files, but left a lot as well. And yes, SSDs don't need to be defragmented. Trim is defragmenting, it is preparing currently unused sectors to be used again. |
#8
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Defrag
Tim wrote:
Windows 10 with an ssd does a trim and not a old style defrag. KenW And Windows 10 also runs a 'good enough' defrag process in the background, so that third party defrag programs aren't needed. I tried running Defragler a couple times, but it made no noticable difference. It cleaned up a few of the more noticable fragmented files, but left a lot as well. And yes, SSDs don't need to be defragmented. Trim is defragmenting, it is preparing currently unused sectors to be used again. I'm curious. Is your Windows 10 still able to defragment ? None of mine are capable now. Even the Win10 in the VM has stopped offering a defrag option. So that's four busted OSes, two insider Oses, a Release OS, and a Release OS inside a VM. Paul |
#9
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Defrag
On 3/6/2018 1:29 AM, Tim wrote:
Notice how the OS partition has all the "badges of honor" in my picture. Where are all the badges of honor in your picture ? Do your drive letters make sense ? Sorry, I haven't a clue. Is this group only for techeads, or can someone help me? -- Myth, after all, is what we believe naturally. History is what we must painfully learn and struggle to remember. -Albert Goldman |
#10
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Defrag
On 3/6/2018 1:47 AM, KenW wrote:
On Tue, 06 Mar 2018 01:29:59 GMT, Tim wrote: Paul wrote in news Martin Edwards wrote: I have defrag on my desktop because I originally had W7, but it no longer has drive C: on the menu, only drive Z:, which does not get fragged, and something else I do not understand. Is there anything I can do about this? Right-click the window thing (Start) in the lower left corner. That should give the right-click menu. In there is "Disk Management". When you run it, it looks like this. https://s10.postimg.org/ufmg4nxcp/disk_management.gif (Picture was taken with snippingtool.exe . Picture was uploaded to https://postimage.org/index.php?um=flash Notice how the OS partition has all the "badges of honor" in my picture. Where are all the badges of honor in your picture ? Do your drive letters make sense ? ******* I'm having trouble with the Windows 10 Insider edition. It is installed on a HDD, yet when I go to the Optimize window to try to defragment, all the options offered say "TRIM", as if the any devices are SSDs. This is wrong. And I can't fix it. Attempts to defragment (even using the command line) cause the command to return immediately with no work done. If I run JKDefrag, the disk is corrupted later. In other words, be careful what you wish for. If you see symptoms similar to this, back up the drive to external storage, before using a third-party defragmenter. I think the symptoms indicate the problem is at the OS level, with the third-party defragmenter being "tricked" into making things worse. I was able to repair the damage... purely by luck. The Windows 10 Release version is not doing that. But given the problem with the Insider, and other evidence I could see in Google, this problem is not an isolated incident. And so far, no amount of fiddling with it, is making it ready to defragment. It doesn't seem to be a disk health issue, just some snit the software is in. One thread suggested it was a side effect of the Windows Performance tool benchmarking the drive, and deciding it was fast enough to be an SSD. And therefore, defrag should not be offered. This is bull****. I tried running the Performance thing manually, and there was no change in anything really. So that doesn't seem to be my root cause. And any idiot would not do SSD detection that way anyway - the SMART table has sufficient differences to tell you're on an SSD. Benching is not needed. Paul You are knowledgeable enough to know that there are a lot of REAL idiots out there writing software, even the ones who are supposed to know better have been know to have Id 10 t moments. Windows 10 with an ssd does a trim and not a old style defrag. KenW Can I take it then that it is doing some kind of defrag anyway? If so, many thanks for your reply. -- Myth, after all, is what we believe naturally. History is what we must painfully learn and struggle to remember. -Albert Goldman |
#11
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Defrag
On 3/6/2018 6:45 AM, Tim wrote:
Windows 10 with an ssd does a trim and not a old style defrag. KenW And Windows 10 also runs a 'good enough' defrag process in the background, so that third party defrag programs aren't needed. I tried running Defragler a couple times, but it made no noticable difference. It cleaned up a few of the more noticable fragmented files, but left a lot as well. And yes, SSDs don't need to be defragmented. Trim is defragmenting, it is preparing currently unused sectors to be used again. Phew! Thanks, I think I understood that. -- Myth, after all, is what we believe naturally. History is what we must painfully learn and struggle to remember. -Albert Goldman |
#12
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Defrag
On 3/6/2018 7:12 AM, Paul wrote:
Tim wrote: Windows 10 with an ssd does a trim and not a old style defrag. KenW And Windows 10 also runs a 'good enough' defrag process in the background, so that third party defrag programs aren't needed. I tried running Defragler a couple times, but it made no noticable difference. It cleaned up a few of the more noticable fragmented files, but left a lot as well. And yes, SSDs don't need to be defragmented. Trim is defragmenting, it is preparing currently unused sectors to be used again. I'm curious. Is your Windows 10 still able to defragment ? None of mine are capable now. Even the Win10 in the VM has stopped offering a defrag option. So that's four busted OSes, two insider Oses, a Release OS, and a Release OS inside a VM. Paul Good to know I am not alone. The computer is running okay for the time being. -- Myth, after all, is what we believe naturally. History is what we must painfully learn and struggle to remember. -Albert Goldman |
#13
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Defrag
Martin Edwards wrote:
Is this group only for techeads, or can someone help me? Maybe a picture would paint 1,000 words here of what you think is wrong, can you upload a screen grab to a a sharing site? |
#14
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Defrag
Martin Edwards wrote:
On 3/6/2018 1:29 AM, Tim wrote: Notice how the OS partition has all the "badges of honor" in my picture. Where are all the badges of honor in your picture ? Do your drive letters make sense ? Sorry, I haven't a clue. Is this group only for techeads, or can someone help me? Now Marty, why do you think I provided this info ? When you run it, it looks like this. https://s10.postimg.org/ufmg4nxcp/disk_management.gif (Picture was taken with snippingtool.exe . Picture was uploaded to https://postimage.org/index.php?um=flash === === === HINT. HINT. HINT. With no account whatsoever, you can upload a screenshot too, to PostImage. That means you don't have to register, don't give an email address or anything. Just upload and done. Test the URL you copy from the PostImage page, in a browser before you post it. I don't want to see a (too-small) Thumbnail link on your first try :-/ If you verify your link works, before posting, things will go a lot smoother. The Snippingtool.exe defaults to taking a picture of a Window. (Look in the Mode menu.) You start Disk Management (right-click the icon in the lower-left corner of your screen and there it is). Then, adjust the size of the Disk Management window so the text is a bit readable. Then use SnippingTool.exe to take a picture of the window. You "arm" Snippingtool, then the screen highlights the window with some artificial lighting, then click on the window frame. Save the picture in your Downloads folder, so that when using the Browser to upload to postimage site, you'll be able to find the ..PNG file to be uploaded. A picture smaller than 1024x768 is desirable, because Postimg will resize uploaded images until they fit that dimension (and the resize can make your resulting image fuzzy). That means if you have a 1920x1080 screen on your computer, you could benefit by not making Disk Management take up the entire screen before you take a picture of it. It doesn't look like Windows 10 has a *decent* photo editor, so I'm not going to torture you with a request to do any edits. And the tool I use for edits (GIMP) doesn't have a very nice learning curve either. It does have a huge manual, but it's a manual that won't help particularly. After the picture is uploaded, you see a complicated box full of URLs like this one. https://s10.postimg.org/ufmg4nxcp/disk_management.gif Your objective is to select one of those suitable for forum usage, making sure the link has the right format, and *verify* the link in your browser in a separate window. Once you know the link is good, you can stick the link in a posting. And then maybe we can figure out what's going on. Paul |
#15
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Defrag
On 3/6/2018 2:50 AM, Martin Edwards wrote:
And yes, SSDs don't need to be defragmented. Trim is defragmenting, it is preparing currently unused sectors to be used again. For my information and understanding, please explain why. Is it the dynamic nature of the SSD formate, ie the information is constantly changing to fill the gaps?? -- 2018: The year we learn to play the great game of Euchre |
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