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#16
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Trying to make the Win10 start menu work - can it do more than 5groups?
Uultred ragnusen wrote:
Thanks Andy for that suggestion of "showing more tiles". I don't think that button does /anything/ useful It makes each group wide enough to fit 8 small tiles instead of 6 (or 4 medium tiles instead of 3). |
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#17
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Trying to make the Win10 start menu work - can it do more than 5 groups?
Andy Burns wrote:
Thanks Andy for that suggestion of "showing more tiles". I don't think that button does /anything/ useful It makes each group wide enough to fit 8 small tiles instead of 6 (or 4 medium tiles instead of 3). Thanks for that advice. I think the only thing left for me to organize the tiles how I want them is to now make a sub hierarchy inside the main tile hierarchy. I'm working on that ... |
#18
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Trying to make the Win10 start menu work - can it do more than 5 groups?
On 18/03/2018 09:14:53, Uultred ragnusen wrote:
Uultred ragnusen wrote: So now I'm working on making some of the groups hierarchical. Wow. I just accidentally ran across this, which allows us to re-create the well-honed cascaded hierarchical Windows start menu of the days of old (which worked just fine as long as you stayed away from the polluted "programs" hierarchy). https://superuser.com/questions/9845...ll-the-folders With this, I am able to re-create a cascaded hierarchical start menu! http://i.cubeupload.com/6WPuYD.jpg Start my menu editors pic {irfanview, paint, paint.net, pinta, etc.} http://i.cubeupload.com/cB1OU0.jpg Now all I need to do is organize that cascaded menu, and then reproduce it in the Windows 10 default tiled grouped menu. I cannot fathom out whether you are trying too make things complicated or looking for problems that don't exist. :-) Short video might help: https://micklord.com/testpage/ Treat the right hand pane like a speadsheet. You can have 3 columns wide or 4 if you have the start menu startup as full screen. A Group of icons can have an infinite number of rows. Each row you can have 8 small icons wide or 4 medium icons or a mixture of both. You can have an infinite number of Groups. -- mick |
#19
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Trying to make the Win10 start menu work - can it do more than 5 groups?
mick wrote:
I cannot fathom out whether you are trying too make things complicated or looking for problems that don't exist. :-) I appreciate your candor, mick, where I just want what anyone would want, which is the convenience of the old hierarchical cascaded menu funcionality without the need to scroll and click through pages. For decades, I've kept my programs in an organized hierarchy, and I simply want single-menu hierarchical access to them (no scrolling) just like I had with the Windows cascaded menus, which, I must state, worked just fine. To be clear, I know some people clutter their desktop, which is flat, with shortcuts to programs. Others clutter their taskbar (which is often flat) with those program shortcuts. Many, like I have in the past, resort to hacks such as the Classic Shell, just to get a cascaded hierarchical menu back. I had customized the hell out of Windows (WinAero & regedit et al) until Microsoft bricked my system in January, so I've decided to try to live under the House Rules, so to speak - which means learning to live with that dastardly flat tiled menu. So my only goal is to make the default (admittedly horrid) tile menu work for a hierarchical access to about a dozen groups with sometimes two, often three, and sometimes four levels of hierarchy. Short video might help: https://micklord.com/testpage/ Assuming that's your two-minute video, I thank you with much sincerely for making it, as you seem to be like I am, where you help people in need of answers (which is why I document my solutions thoroughly). I see you first arranged the icons on the desktop, flat (which is all a desktop can realistically do on a desktop), and that you had some program icons in the task bar, which you must admit, by default, from Microsoft, is also unrealistically flat through no fault of your own but which is normal for Windows users. [I'm not pointing out your faults but the faults of the Microsoft coders where the flat menus are fine for quick access - but the flat menus fail miserably for access to all installed programs.] I see you initially accessed the program icons from the default alphabetical listing by meaningless brand name (which everyone must admit, is an idiotic way to access program shortcuts but that's what Microsoft gives us, by default, so that's all we have to work with for starters).[Again, I'm only pointing out the fault of Microsoft - as you and I can only start with the crap they give us.] Very much to your credit, you had created more than a dozen dummy groups in your start menu, which is the first time in my searches I've seen more than an unrealistic five groups in any screenshot on the net! So kudos to you for being realistic in the number of groups seen on the screen all at the same time [there is never a desire to scroll!]. I see you located the program shortcuts on that idiotic alphabetical start menu (which is a realistic thing to do) and selected "pin to start", and then moved the icon into the desired hierarchical group, which is what I also wish to do. So this is all well and good because you have to start with the Microsoft crap to make your own menu. So you seem to have accomplished pretty much what I'm seeking, where I saw one thing in your video that confuses me (because I don't see it on my screen), and I didn't see one thing in your video which is required, which is multi-level hierarchy. (see clarification below) Treat the right hand pane like a speadsheet. You can have 3 columns wide or 4 if you have the start menu startup as full screen. It's always going to be a full screen because I want to see at least a dozen groups at once (no scrolling), and I want it to have at least a few levels of hierarchy. The actual size of the icons is meaningless since the old hierarchical cascaded start menu sizes were fine, and they were tiny compared to what we have now, and our screens were smaller too. So size doesn't matter - but what matters is: a. It must show the entire menu in one screen b. It must be multi-level (at least 3 or 4) of hierarchy c. It must be attached to the start button (that's where it belongs). Just like cascaded menus were (there was nothing wrong with them). A Group of icons can have an infinite number of rows. Each row you can have 8 small icons wide or 4 medium icons or a mixture of both. I'm not sure what you mean by "rows" since your menu seems to be in portrait mode (for lack of a better term) while mine seems to be in landcape mode, but what matters is that what you call rows must also have rows, in order to be hierarchical, as in: Start editors picture editors batch imbatch Start editors picture editors viewers irfanview Start editors picture editors writers pinta etc. Given that hypothetical hierarchy, in your terminology, that's: Start row1 sub-row2 sub-sub-row3 program shortcut.lnk You can have an infinite number of Groups. This is good news that the rows and groups can be greater than five, which was the original issue now overcome. I really only have two questions about the wonderful video where I'll first provide some screenshots to help illustrate the first question: A. http://i.cubeupload.com/qjVNBl.jpg (your menu, alphabetical + group) B. http://i.cubeupload.com/3xLbd5.jpg (my group menu) C. http://i.cubeupload.com/CR5puo.jpg (my alphabetical menu) D. http://i.cubeupload.com/CAdeeW.jpg (my cascaded task-bar menu) With those screenshots in mind, and with the goal of a single-page start menu (no scrolling) attached to the Windows icon where the menu has at least three or four levels of hierarchy (depending on how you count hierarchy), my main two questions about your video a Q1: How did you get BOTH menus to show up at the same time, and, Q2: Can the Windows tiled menu be made hierarchical (3 or 4 levels)? I hope this makes sense. Thank you for your help. I hope the answer helps everyone with the same need. |
#20
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Trying to make the Win10 start menu work - can it do more than 5groups?
Uultred ragnusen wrote:
mick wrote: I cannot fathom out whether you are trying too make things complicated or looking for problems that don't exist. :-) I appreciate your candor, mick, where I just want what anyone would want, which is the convenience of the old hierarchical cascaded menu funcionality without the need to scroll and click through pages. Well why don't you just put tiles within tiles? Example create a tile group "Programming". 1) Drag some tile of a programming app on Start Screen off from others to create a new section. 2) Click above tile to set section name "Programming" 3) Drag other programming app tiles *on top* of the first one that you put in that section and it will now be a group tile 4) Repeat as desired. 5) When you click on a grouped tile it will expand below revealing contained tiles. -- Take care, Jonathan ------------------- LITTLE WORKS STUDIO http://www.LittleWorksStudio.com |
#21
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Trying to make the Win10 start menu work - can it do more than 5 groups?
"Jonathan N. Little" wrote:
Well why don't you just put tiles within tiles? Thanks for that suggestion, which is fair enough that hierarchy can be "created" using the concept of "tiles within tiles". http://i.cubeupload.com/pQjHeR.jpg Example create a tile group "Programming". 1) Drag some tile of a programming app on Start Screen off from others to create a new section. 2) Click above tile to set section name "Programming" 3) Drag other programming app tiles *on top* of the first one that you put in that section and it will now be a group tile 4) Repeat as desired. 5) When you click on a grouped tile it will expand below revealing contained tiles. This is a great suggestion of hierarchical tiles where the only remaining issue would be whether a hierarchical tile can go into another hierarchical tile. http://i.cubeupload.com/pQjHeR.jpg So far I can't get it to work, but, like so many things on this Start Menu, there's a trick involved in most. What's the trick to get a hierarchical tile into another hierarchical tile? |
#22
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Trying to make the Win10 start menu work - can it do more than 5 groups?
On 19/03/2018 14:53:53, Uultred ragnusen wrote:
mick wrote: I cannot fathom out whether you are trying too make things complicated or looking for problems that don't exist. :-) I appreciate your candor, mick, where I just want what anyone would want, which is the convenience of the old hierarchical cascaded menu funcionality without the need to scroll and click through pages. For decades, I've kept my programs in an organized hierarchy, and I simply want single-menu hierarchical access to them (no scrolling) just like I had with the Windows cascaded menus, which, I must state, worked just fine. To be clear, I know some people clutter their desktop, which is flat, with shortcuts to programs. Others clutter their taskbar (which is often flat) with those program shortcuts. Many, like I have in the past, resort to hacks such as the Classic Shell, just to get a cascaded hierarchical menu back. I had customized the hell out of Windows (WinAero & regedit et al) until Microsoft bricked my system in January, so I've decided to try to live under the House Rules, so to speak - which means learning to live with that dastardly flat tiled menu. So my only goal is to make the default (admittedly horrid) tile menu work for a hierarchical access to about a dozen groups with sometimes two, often three, and sometimes four levels of hierarchy. Short video might help: https://micklord.com/testpage/ Assuming that's your two-minute video, I thank you with much sincerely for making it, as you seem to be like I am, where you help people in need of answers (which is why I document my solutions thoroughly). I see you first arranged the icons on the desktop, flat (which is all a desktop can realistically do on a desktop), and that you had some program icons in the task bar, which you must admit, by default, from Microsoft, is also unrealistically flat through no fault of your own but which is normal for Windows users. [I'm not pointing out your faults but the faults of the Microsoft coders where the flat menus are fine for quick access - but the flat menus fail miserably for access to all installed programs.] I see you initially accessed the program icons from the default alphabetical listing by meaningless brand name (which everyone must admit, is an idiotic way to access program shortcuts but that's what Microsoft gives us, by default, so that's all we have to work with for starters).[Again, I'm only pointing out the fault of Microsoft - as you and I can only start with the crap they give us.] Very much to your credit, you had created more than a dozen dummy groups in your start menu, which is the first time in my searches I've seen more than an unrealistic five groups in any screenshot on the net! So kudos to you for being realistic in the number of groups seen on the screen all at the same time [there is never a desire to scroll!]. I see you located the program shortcuts on that idiotic alphabetical start menu (which is a realistic thing to do) and selected "pin to start", and then moved the icon into the desired hierarchical group, which is what I also wish to do. So this is all well and good because you have to start with the Microsoft crap to make your own menu. So you seem to have accomplished pretty much what I'm seeking, where I saw one thing in your video that confuses me (because I don't see it on my screen), and I didn't see one thing in your video which is required, which is multi-level hierarchy. (see clarification below) Treat the right hand pane like a speadsheet. You can have 3 columns wide or 4 if you have the start menu startup as full screen. It's always going to be a full screen because I want to see at least a dozen groups at once (no scrolling), and I want it to have at least a few levels of hierarchy. The actual size of the icons is meaningless since the old hierarchical cascaded start menu sizes were fine, and they were tiny compared to what we have now, and our screens were smaller too. So size doesn't matter - but what matters is: a. It must show the entire menu in one screen b. It must be multi-level (at least 3 or 4) of hierarchy c. It must be attached to the start button (that's where it belongs). Just like cascaded menus were (there was nothing wrong with them). A Group of icons can have an infinite number of rows. Each row you can have 8 small icons wide or 4 medium icons or a mixture of both. I'm not sure what you mean by "rows" since your menu seems to be in portrait mode (for lack of a better term) while mine seems to be in landcape mode, but what matters is that what you call rows must also have rows, in order to be hierarchical, as in: Start editors picture editors batch imbatch Start editors picture editors viewers irfanview Start editors picture editors writers pinta etc. Given that hypothetical hierarchy, in your terminology, that's: Start row1 sub-row2 sub-sub-row3 program shortcut.lnk You can have an infinite number of Groups. This is good news that the rows and groups can be greater than five, which was the original issue now overcome. I really only have two questions about the wonderful video where I'll first provide some screenshots to help illustrate the first question: A. http://i.cubeupload.com/qjVNBl.jpg (your menu, alphabetical + group) B. http://i.cubeupload.com/3xLbd5.jpg (my group menu) C. http://i.cubeupload.com/CR5puo.jpg (my alphabetical menu) D. http://i.cubeupload.com/CAdeeW.jpg (my cascaded task-bar menu) With those screenshots in mind, and with the goal of a single-page start menu (no scrolling) attached to the Windows icon where the menu has at least three or four levels of hierarchy (depending on how you count hierarchy), my main two questions about your video a Q1: How did you get BOTH menus to show up at the same time, and, Q2: Can the Windows tiled menu be made hierarchical (3 or 4 levels)? I hope this makes sense. Thank you for your help. I hope the answer helps everyone with the same need. Q1: You only get both menus showing when the start menu is not set to start full screen. Turn it off in settings. I am using a 24inch monitor, stretch the start menu up as far as it will go, and to the right and you will get three columns wide on the right hand side. It is about an inch from the top of the screen and 3.5 inch from the right. You will always get scrolling on the alphabetical list if you have many programs. On the right hand screen you should have enough real estate to accommondate your icons without scrolling. Q2: No, not that I am aware of. Making a tile called My Documents (wich contains many folders and files) is just a short cut to My Documents folder. Clicking on the tile opens up File Explorer at My Documents folder. Screenshot D: I cannot see any way to add that to the start menu. FYI I do not use the start menu other than closing down the computer. All my programs that I use on a regular basis are on the desktop organised in some sort of order, Disk Utilities, Music, Desktop Publishing/Drawing, Photo, Internet. The most popular programs are on the task bar using extensive jump lists for regularly used files. I don't miss the folder/file hierarchy that was present in versions of windows before 10, probably because I have always used Directory Opus for my file manager which opens on startup. It can be configured to more or less do anything from within the program. -- mick |
#23
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Trying to make the Win10 start menu work - can it do more than 5 groups?
mick wrote:
Q1: You only get both menus showing when the start menu is not set to start full screen. Turn it off in settings. Ah. Thanks. I see. Worked like a charm. http://i.cubeupload.com/lYcCoJ.jpg I am using a 24inch monitor, stretch the start menu up as far as it will go, and to the right and you will get three columns wide on the right hand side. It is about an inch from the top of the screen and 3.5 inch from the right. I streteched it as far as it will go, so thanks for that hint, as this whole Windows grouped start menu is something that I need to wrestle until it works right. http://i.cubeupload.com/5CO1TI.jpg You will always get scrolling on the alphabetical list if you have many programs. On the right hand screen you should have enough real estate to accommondate your icons without scrolling. Your observation is correct in that I agree, with hundreds of programs, not all of which you want on a start menu, the alphabetical list will scroll but we "should" be able to create a hierarchical grouped menu that is a single page (if it can handle hierarchy). Q2: No, not that I am aware of. Making a tile called My Documents (wich contains many folders and files) is just a short cut to My Documents folder. Clicking on the tile opens up File Explorer at My Documents folder. If the grouped start menu can't be made hierarchical, then that's a huge flaw over the functionality of a cascaded menu, which has no problem with hierarchy until you reach the end of the screen (which won't realistically happen). That is, if the grouped start menu has only one level of hierarchy Group Tile then that's a fatal flaw. I tried to put a grouped tile inside of a grouped tile, but I have failed so far, so if I continue to fail, that's a big nail in the coffin of the Windows 10 start menu because hierarchy is one of the most basic requirements of a menu system. http://i.cubeupload.com/labOZ9.jpg Screenshot D: I cannot see any way to add that to the start menu. I agree with you that I tried to create a folder that would work as a cascade, since I already have that on my task bar, but it doesn't work like you'd want it to work in the menu. https://i.cubeupload.com/CAdeeW.jpg FYI I do not use the start menu other than closing down the computer. I don't use it either but only because it's worthless as shipped by Microsoft. It must be customized. But if it can't even do the most basic of hierarchical needs, then it's pretty much worthless as a menu system. Up until now, we've overcome all the flaws (e.g., the 5 groups, the hierarchy inside of a single tile, etc.). But if the menu can't handle more than a single level of hierarchy, then it's nearly worthless as a menu. If I wanted flat, I'd put a bunch of icons in a folder or on the destkop or on the taskbar. Hierarchy is everything in a menu system. All my programs that I use on a regular basis are on the desktop organised in some sort of order, Disk Utilities, Music, Desktop Publishing/Drawing, Photo, Internet. Yes. I know. I do the same thing, only in the task bar. That works well for a small subset of programs. There are, basically, three subsets of programs (IMHO): 1. The superset (but nobody wants shortcuts to everything!) 2. The subset (these are programs you plan on using) 3. The sub-subset (these are the dozen you use the most every day) The most popular programs are on the task bar using extensive jump lists for regularly used files. Yes. I know. I'm fully familiar with the sub-subset of programs where you want single-click access. This thread was never about them, as I have them in my task bar also, and in a menu folder. This thread is about the Start Menu, which, IMHO, isn't designed for the (1) superset, nor for the (3) sub-subset, but for the (2) subset of programs that you might call. For example, I don't burn DVDs every day so IMGBurn would be in my sub-subset, but I do use a web browser every day so PaleMoon would be in my sub-subset. The Start Menu, IMHO, should have (2) the subset of programs, so, for example the Opera browser would be in the menu: Start Browsers Chromium-based Privacy-based Opera.lnk while, say, SRWare iron would be in: Start Browsers Chromium-based No Privacy Iron.lnk Likewise, IMGBurn might be in: Start Hardware BrCdDvd Burning Imgburn.lnk While DeVeDe might be in: Start Hardware BrCdDvd Authoring Devede.lnk I don't miss the folder/file hierarchy that was present in versions of windows before 10, probably because I have always used Directory Opus for my file manager which opens on startup. It can be configured to more or less do anything from within the program. I had a well-honed cascaded start menu which mirrored my software installation hierarchy which mirrored my software archive hierarchy which made sense and which is exactly what you do with your socks, your tools, your kitchen appliances, etc. A place for everything and everything in its place is normal in the real world, where a menu that is not hierarchical is not a menu but a toy. So far, we've overcome all the gotchas in learning to use the Windows start menu, but if it can't be made to have hierarchy, then it's basically worthless as a menu system. Are you /sure/ you can't put a grouped folder inside of another? http://i.cubeupload.com/labOZ9.jpg Maybe there's a registry tweak that will allow that basic functionality? |
#24
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Trying to make the Win10 start menu work - can it do more than 5 groups?
On 19/03/2018 22:21:40, Uultred ragnusen wrote:
mick wrote: Q1: You only get both menus showing when the start menu is not set to start full screen. Turn it off in settings. Ah. Thanks. I see. Worked like a charm. http://i.cubeupload.com/lYcCoJ.jpg I am using a 24inch monitor, stretch the start menu up as far as it will go, and to the right and you will get three columns wide on the right hand side. It is about an inch from the top of the screen and 3.5 inch from the right. I streteched it as far as it will go, so thanks for that hint, as this whole Windows grouped start menu is something that I need to wrestle until it works right. http://i.cubeupload.com/5CO1TI.jpg You will always get scrolling on the alphabetical list if you have many programs. On the right hand screen you should have enough real estate to accommondate your icons without scrolling. Your observation is correct in that I agree, with hundreds of programs, not all of which you want on a start menu, the alphabetical list will scroll but we "should" be able to create a hierarchical grouped menu that is a single page (if it can handle hierarchy). Q2: No, not that I am aware of. Making a tile called My Documents (wich contains many folders and files) is just a short cut to My Documents folder. Clicking on the tile opens up File Explorer at My Documents folder. If the grouped start menu can't be made hierarchical, then that's a huge flaw over the functionality of a cascaded menu, which has no problem with hierarchy until you reach the end of the screen (which won't realistically happen). That is, if the grouped start menu has only one level of hierarchy Group Tile then that's a fatal flaw. I tried to put a grouped tile inside of a grouped tile, but I have failed so far, so if I continue to fail, that's a big nail in the coffin of the Windows 10 start menu because hierarchy is one of the most basic requirements of a menu system. http://i.cubeupload.com/labOZ9.jpg Screenshot D: I cannot see any way to add that to the start menu. I agree with you that I tried to create a folder that would work as a cascade, since I already have that on my task bar, but it doesn't work like you'd want it to work in the menu. https://i.cubeupload.com/CAdeeW.jpg FYI I do not use the start menu other than closing down the computer. I don't use it either but only because it's worthless as shipped by Microsoft. It must be customized. But if it can't even do the most basic of hierarchical needs, then it's pretty much worthless as a menu system. Up until now, we've overcome all the flaws (e.g., the 5 groups, the hierarchy inside of a single tile, etc.). But if the menu can't handle more than a single level of hierarchy, then it's nearly worthless as a menu. If I wanted flat, I'd put a bunch of icons in a folder or on the destkop or on the taskbar. Hierarchy is everything in a menu system. All my programs that I use on a regular basis are on the desktop organised in some sort of order, Disk Utilities, Music, Desktop Publishing/Drawing, Photo, Internet. Yes. I know. I do the same thing, only in the task bar. That works well for a small subset of programs. There are, basically, three subsets of programs (IMHO): 1. The superset (but nobody wants shortcuts to everything!) 2. The subset (these are programs you plan on using) 3. The sub-subset (these are the dozen you use the most every day) The most popular programs are on the task bar using extensive jump lists for regularly used files. Yes. I know. I'm fully familiar with the sub-subset of programs where you want single-click access. This thread was never about them, as I have them in my task bar also, and in a menu folder. This thread is about the Start Menu, which, IMHO, isn't designed for the (1) superset, nor for the (3) sub-subset, but for the (2) subset of programs that you might call. For example, I don't burn DVDs every day so IMGBurn would be in my sub-subset, but I do use a web browser every day so PaleMoon would be in my sub-subset. The Start Menu, IMHO, should have (2) the subset of programs, so, for example the Opera browser would be in the menu: Start Browsers Chromium-based Privacy-based Opera.lnk while, say, SRWare iron would be in: Start Browsers Chromium-based No Privacy Iron.lnk Likewise, IMGBurn might be in: Start Hardware BrCdDvd Burning Imgburn.lnk While DeVeDe might be in: Start Hardware BrCdDvd Authoring Devede.lnk I don't miss the folder/file hierarchy that was present in versions of windows before 10, probably because I have always used Directory Opus for my file manager which opens on startup. It can be configured to more or less do anything from within the program. I had a well-honed cascaded start menu which mirrored my software installation hierarchy which mirrored my software archive hierarchy which made sense and which is exactly what you do with your socks, your tools, your kitchen appliances, etc. A place for everything and everything in its place is normal in the real world, where a menu that is not hierarchical is not a menu but a toy. So far, we've overcome all the gotchas in learning to use the Windows start menu, but if it can't be made to have hierarchy, then it's basically worthless as a menu system. Are you /sure/ you can't put a grouped folder inside of another? http://i.cubeupload.com/labOZ9.jpg Maybe there's a registry tweak that will allow that basic functionality? You cannot put a Group tile within another Group tile. You cannot put a tile in a tile that is already in a Group tile, effectively trying to make the tile already in the Group tile become another Group tile. Hierarchy is Group Tile AFAICS, I have searched 'tinternet without any joy. I've been chasing those tiles all over the screen, they have like poles and repel each other, maybe deguassing the monitor would help ;-) -- mick |
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Trying to make the Win10 start menu work - can it do more than 5 groups?
On Sun, 18 Mar 2018 08:07:53 +0000 (UTC), Uultred ragnusen
wrote: Peter Jason wrote: Mine works intermittently. You're not kidding! It's as capricious as all hell to try to create a dozen groups! The best I can do, so far, after thirty or forty attempts is seven! http://i.cubeupload.com/9nIoNy.jpg There may be something wrong because I get side-panel messages to check my SSD (which disk?) for errors but when I run chkdsk all is well. I'm waiting for that upgrade to fix things. My disks are fine. It's Windows that is flaky as hell. There must be a /reproducible/ method for creating new groups. It's just crazy the method I'm using, which was kindly suggested by Ralph Fox earlier in this thread - but the mechanism is so flaky that out of thirty or forty attempts, I'm only up to 7 groups. Obviously, there's a trick I'm missing because only a sadistic developer would have designed a system this capricious on purpose. I noticed that when I log out (ctrl-alt-del) and log in straight away I get full fuctionallity of the TaskBar & LHS notification panel. But my custom lock-screen picture (a large Siberian tundra cat) has disappeared. I have changed back to the dreary MSoft lockscreen to see the effect on the next cold boot-up. |
#26
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Trying to make the Win10 start menu work - can it do more than 5 groups?
mick wrote:
You cannot put a Group tile within another Group tile. Drat. That's a killer limitation that you can't put a "group tile" into another group tile. You cannot put a tile in a tile that is already in a Group tile, effectively trying to make the tile already in the Group tile become another Group tile. Darn. Same limitation, which is you can't put a tile in group tile. Hierarchy is Group Tile AFAICS, I have searched 'tinternet without any joy. Thanks. I was hoping for a tweak, but, as you know, I searched before I asked for how to create a realistic tiled start menu where all I found were a million articles showing nothing but five groups, so, the point is that NOBODY is actually USING this stuff in the real world. I've been chasing those tiles all over the screen, they have like poles and repel each other, maybe deguassing the monitor would help ;-) I agree with you that the menu is flaky as all hell. The funny thing is that Windows is now just like the iOS and Android devices are, where you have to chase the icons all over the home screen to get them to go inside of the folder they belong to. As an example, here's my well-designed iOS screen, where the iOS app launcher is almost as primitive as the Windows 10 tiled Start Menu, so it's the best I can do given the severe limitations: http://i.cubeupload.com/FjqH8M.jpg And here's my well-defined Android screen, obviously with far more control, which is designed to be held in my left hand which is why the icons are in the locations that they're in. http://i.cubeupload.com/6mHMtk.jpg If I showed you my decade-old well-designed hierarchically cascaded WinXP menus, you'd see they're as organized as well. It's sad, but Windows menus are just not hierarchical it seems. Thanks mick for all the help and patience. I think hierarchical menu organization is important - but it's just not possible on Windows. Sigh. Stepping on a political soapbox, what I think is happening is a dumbing down of the user who doesn't even REALIZE what a good menu SHOULD look like, such that we're few and far between who understand what a menu should do. |
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Trying to make the Win10 start menu work - can it do more than 5 groups?
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Stepping on a political soapbox, what I think is happening is a dumbing down of the user who doesn't even REALIZE what a good menu SHOULD look like, such that we're few and far between who understand what a menu should do. You'll note, by the way, that I'm a (self-assessed!) "pro" when it comes to app launching menus, where I pioneered (as far as I am aware among all my associates) an organization of hierarchical menus when they first came out. On Android, you'll note that I maintain a well-defined SINGLE SCREEN hierarchy: http://i.cubeupload.com/61A3dr.jpg Where on iOS it's still SINGLE SCREEN but it isn't as well built (simply because iOS is primitive compared to Android in that regard). http://i.cubeupload.com/F1fbRe.jpg The point is that I was HOPING that Window10 start menu had the basic functionality that we had since Windows XP days which is a simple hierarchical menu that handled the typical hierarchy of computers. This Win10 start menu, with respect to hierarchy, is almost no better than a mobile-device menu. Sigh. |
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Trying to make the Win10 start menu work - can it do more than 5 groups?
Peter Jason wrote:
I noticed that when I log out (ctrl-alt-del) and log in straight away I get full fuctionallity of the TaskBar & LHS notification panel. But my custom lock-screen picture (a large Siberian tundra cat) has disappeared. I have changed back to the dreary MSoft lockscreen to see the effect on the next cold boot-up. I guess you're pointing out more inconsistencies, where, the one thing I never bother to customize except to make it a single color when battery life is important (either black or white, depending on the type of screen), is the background. I'm not saying you're like what I'm about to say, since you brought it up with respect to flakiness, but it's been a point of amazement with me over the decades when people think that they're "customizing" their computer by putting on screen savers and backgrounds. Again, I'm not saying you said that - but I am saying that I leave the background alone, where you've seen my Windows background and this is my Linux background on that same dual-boot machine. http://i.cubeupload.com/rhcp1s.jpg But back to your point, yes, the GUI is surprisingly flaky on Windows 10 for such a mature system. |
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Trying to make the Win10 start menu work - can it do more than 5groups?
Uultred ragnusen wrote:
What's the trick to get a hierarchical tile into another hierarchical tile? I think you are over complicating it. I would not try to put *everything* on my start page, just things for often used task. Anything else,the once-in-a-dog's-age-app I just WinKey + (start typing name of app)* *not quite as handy as Ubuntu where I don't have to *know* the name of the application, I can find it quickly via a keyword on app's application, e.g., "newsgroup" finds Pan and Thunderbird...or whatever news client I have installed. Windows 10 is almost as good, better than 7 or Vista. -- Take care, Jonathan ------------------- LITTLE WORKS STUDIO http://www.LittleWorksStudio.com |
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Trying to make the Win10 start menu work - can it do more than 5 groups?
On 20/03/2018 02:38:54, Uultred ragnusen wrote:
mick wrote: You cannot put a Group tile within another Group tile. Drat. That's a killer limitation that you can't put a "group tile" into another group tile. You cannot put a tile in a tile that is already in a Group tile, effectively trying to make the tile already in the Group tile become another Group tile. Darn. Same limitation, which is you can't put a tile in group tile. Hierarchy is Group Tile AFAICS, I have searched 'tinternet without any joy. Thanks. I was hoping for a tweak, but, as you know, I searched before I asked for how to create a realistic tiled start menu where all I found were a million articles showing nothing but five groups, so, the point is that NOBODY is actually USING this stuff in the real world. I've been chasing those tiles all over the screen, they have like poles and repel each other, maybe deguassing the monitor would help ;-) I agree with you that the menu is flaky as all hell. The funny thing is that Windows is now just like the iOS and Android devices are, where you have to chase the icons all over the home screen to get them to go inside of the folder they belong to. As an example, here's my well-designed iOS screen, where the iOS app launcher is almost as primitive as the Windows 10 tiled Start Menu, so it's the best I can do given the severe limitations: http://i.cubeupload.com/FjqH8M.jpg And here's my well-defined Android screen, obviously with far more control, which is designed to be held in my left hand which is why the icons are in the locations that they're in. http://i.cubeupload.com/6mHMtk.jpg If I showed you my decade-old well-designed hierarchically cascaded WinXP menus, you'd see they're as organized as well. It's sad, but Windows menus are just not hierarchical it seems. Thanks mick for all the help and patience. I think hierarchical menu organization is important - but it's just not possible on Windows. Sigh. Stepping on a political soapbox, what I think is happening is a dumbing down of the user who doesn't even REALIZE what a good menu SHOULD look like, such that we're few and far between who understand what a menu should do. I am not defending Win 10 but you have to realise that it is an ongoing development and those things that you desire may well come in the future. OK, so third party software has addressed issues a long time ago and that is why I do and would use it in preference to any MS based offering. Windows on the outside is dumbed down and caters for the masses who don't know the difference between a music file and a photo file, and probably don't even know what a file is :-) Take the desktop, with Linux you can have multiple desktops, each configured how you want with individual settings. You could have one desktop just for photo programs, one for all internet related, one for desktop publishing, one for music and so on. With windows 10 we have multiple desktops but you cannot configure them individually like you can with Linux. Will win 10 eventually get the versatile Linux way of doing desktops, maybe, maybe not. MS Windows is like the infants Mega Bloks, to do anything really serious you need to add the Lego Technic blocks to it. -- mick |
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