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#61
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OT.... but I need help
On Fri, 02 Nov 2012 22:27:45 -0400, Paul wrote:
Quartz oscillators can have a trimmer cap in the design. And that can be used to trim out the initial tolerance. My digital watch has one of those in it. The last time I looked inside a quartz watch, I couldn't find a trimmer, to my (mild) annoyance. It was a Timex, if that is in any way relevant. -- Gene E. Bloch (Stumbling Bloch) |
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#62
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OT.... but I need help
On Sat, 3 Nov 2012 09:48:22 +0000, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
In message , Paul writes: [] And if you don't like quartz crystals, they do make pretty small atomic clocks. http://www.popsci.com/technology/art...atomic-clock-e ver-now-sale Paul I hadn't realised the technology had come on so! Mind you, at a tenth of a watt, that one's not going to run for long on an AA cell or two - and I don't have $1500 to spare either ... (-: [Still impressive, though.] Now I need to know how to set it to a suitable precision. BTW, if that is *not* easy to do, I will cry when the first AAA cell fades (I know you said AA, I'm just being weird). Thanks Paul, for the link. -- Gene E. Bloch (Stumbling Bloch) |
#63
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OT.... but I need help
On Sat, 3 Nov 2012 10:04:00 +0000, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
Well, unless you wanted to keep them as a museum exhibit, you could find out by ripping the flat batteries apart to see how many cells they contained (which I expect would have been ordinary 1.5 volt cells, though of unusual shapes). I'd have thought they'd have the voltage printed on them, though. They didn't have anything printed on them. They were maybe 1.25" square and 0.25" thick, and didn't look much like flashlight cells. The dimensions are from a disassembly I did around the early 50's +- a decade or so, and are not to be trusted. -- Gene E. Bloch (Stumbling Bloch) |
#64
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OT.... but I need help
On Sat, 03 Nov 2012 23:29:39 +0100, Fokke Nauta wrote:
Unfortunately a language problem. Though I could have known better ... Native speakers make that error 90% of the time, so you needn't question your English. You might even have learned the terms by hearing the way most English speakers use them, including those of us who claim to know the difference (I am guilty as charged). BTW, your posts generally don't show much sign of the difficulties you feel. You are doing well... -- Gene E. Bloch (Stumbling Bloch) |
#65
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OT.... but I need help
On Sat, 03 Nov 2012 12:27:20 +0000, Ed Cryer wrote:
Gene E. Bloch wrote: On Fri, 02 Nov 2012 18:59:39 +0000, Ed Cryer wrote: Paul wrote: Ed Cryer wrote: Drew wrote: On 11/1/2012 12:04 PM, Ed Cryer wrote: In our local sports centre swimming pool there's a clock on the wall. It keeps good time. I've relied on it for years to time myself. However, every day at 4-00pm exactly it goes into overdrive, and sweeps round covering many hours in a few seconds. Then it resets at just after 4-00pm, and continues normally. I've pointed it out to many fellow swimmers; and they stare in amazement, raised eyebrows and a dim expression over the facial features and say they don't know. The other day I finally gave in and asked at Reception what it was all about. She told me that that was the only clock in the Centre that did that, that they weren't interconnected and that she didn't know why. My best guess is that it's a radio clock, and it self-adjust every day at 4-00pm. But I've googled for "clock speeds up at 4-00pm" and the like and haven't found the answer. Some one here must have met one of these things. If so then let me know more. Ed Possible atomic clock of some kind? I have a strong suspicion you're right here. Everybody else seems to have gone for radio-control (I did myself as first guess), but look what googling has produced. It looks just like this; http://www.walmart.com/ip/14-Analog-...Pearl/13443480 And then take a look at these hits for images on "Analog Atomic Wall Clock"; there are zillions. http://tinyurl.com/bt95lv3 There must be quite a lot of these things in use around the world. The write-up says; Radio-Controlled Atomic Time Automatically sets to exact time Accurate to the second Automatically updates for daylight saving time (on/off option) 4 time zone settings 14'' Plastic Frame Simple Operation: Insert One AA Alkaline Battery (not included) After signal is received, press Time Zone button to set Four Time Zone Settings Daylight Saving Time Option On/Off Manual Reset Button Ed According to this, that product uses WWVB. http://www.lacrosse-clock.com/lacrosse_technology.htm The signal strength varies through the day. So if it was having a reception problem, you'd wait until the signal reached peak strength, to see if the clock could pick it up. http://www.nist.gov/pml/div688/grp40/radioclocks.cfm ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WWVB ) Amazing it runs off one AA alkaline cell. So while you don't have to set the time, the battery is still going to need changing. Paul I find that hard to believe, too. My little Acctim digital radio clock needs two AAs. But it also displays date, temp and phase of moon. Mind you, I can't recall having ever changed the batts since I got the thing. Ed Clearly the second battery is for the moon phase :-) Imagine the battery situation if these things had to use vacuum tubes (valves). I've been looking for a use for that moon phase display. I thought it might come in useful if I ever become a Moslem or a Jew, when it would indicate approaching Ramadan or Passover. But I had a near-death experience some years back, and no religious awakening at all in my narrow little life. Maybe now, however, when the skies have been so cloud-covered for months that it's nice to know what would be visible without them. :-) Ed I thought my comment about vacuum tubes might have been enough to out the fear of god into you :-) The reason there are no atheists in fox holes is that they all left. -- Gene E. Bloch (Stumbling Bloch) |
#66
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OT.... but I need help
On Sat, 3 Nov 2012 20:47:35 +0000, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
The differences between our languages bring much enjoyment to me (as well as occasional frustration)! Can't think of anything computer-specific, other than perhaps remembering as a child chanting "a million million is a billion, a million billion is a trillion"; we adopted the American billion somewhere around 1980. I remember being startled when I started hearing BBC announcers and other British people saying billion for 10**9. Soon enough, it became clear that Britain had transitioned to the right way (joke). Though I still regret the US's aborting the shift to the metric system... -- Gene E. Bloch (Stumbling Bloch) |
#67
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OT.... but I need help
On Sat, 3 Nov 2012 10:10:30 +0000, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
In message , Gene E. Bloch writes: On Fri, 2 Nov 2012 21:40:54 +0000, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote: [] What's more, they advertise these clocks (and watches) as "accurate to a second in a million years" (or that sort of thing). Which, of course, they're not: the clock they're _linked_ to _may_ be. Can't see how they get away with such claims, but they obviously do. Well, people like you and me notice it, so they aren't really getting away with it :-) By "get away with it", I mean they aren't punished (fined) by whatever agency keeps an eye on advertising. (In the UK, it's the ASA - advertising standards authority - who are worthless; their main sanction seems to be to tell the advertiser that the ad. must not appear in that form again, which delights the advertisers: they just say "sorry teacher, won't do it again", and go on to write similarly misleading copy for a different product. Such as a recent one I saw for a portable TV described as "high resolution", which had a vertical pixel count of less than 500 pixels - even stated in the same ad.!; see if you can spot their excuse for getting away with that one.) [Yes, I know about "caveat emptor" (let the buyer beware), but where technical matters are concerned at the very least, I do think the less knowledgeable should be protected.] I was really being ironic, not serious... -- Gene E. Bloch (Stumbling Bloch) |
#68
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OT.... but I need help
On Sat, 3 Nov 2012 19:03:09 -0700, Gene E. Bloch wrote:
I thought my comment about vacuum tubes might have been enough to out the fear of god into you :-) I do know that spell checkers don't understand grammar, but I forgot to double check the above. "out" is meant to be "put". -- Gene E. Bloch (Stumbling Bloch) |
#69
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OT.... but I need help
On 04/11/2012 01:18, Gene E. Bloch wrote:
On Fri, 02 Nov 2012 22:27:45 -0400, Paul wrote: Quartz oscillators can have a trimmer cap in the design. And that can be used to trim out the initial tolerance. My digital watch has one of those in it. The last time I looked inside a quartz watch, I couldn't find a trimmer, to my (mild) annoyance. It was a Timex, if that is in any way relevant. What do you need a trimmer for IF it has been set properly at the factory. -- choro ***** |
#70
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OT.... but I need help
On 04/11/2012 02:31, Gene E. Bloch wrote:
On Sat, 03 Nov 2012 23:29:39 +0100, Fokke Nauta wrote: Unfortunately a language problem. Though I could have known better ... Native speakers make that error 90% of the time, so you needn't question your English. You might even have learned the terms by hearing the way most English speakers use them, including those of us who claim to know the difference (I am guilty as charged). BTW, your posts generally don't show much sign of the difficulties you feel. You are doing well... Thanks! My English has got a bit rusty though. I used to live in the UK for 5 years and in that time it improved tremendously. But technical English was never a problem, it's when talking about social issues or complicated matter, I felt I was lacking. Also understanding jokes and expressions. That's what makes a foreign languague difficult, even English. But it's also a challenge! But since I'm back in The Netherlands, I don't practise it anymore ... Fokke |
#71
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OT.... but I need help
On 11/3/2012 10:07 PM, Gene E. Bloch wrote:
On Sat, 3 Nov 2012 20:47:35 +0000, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote: The differences between our languages bring much enjoyment to me (as well as occasional frustration)! Can't think of anything computer-specific, other than perhaps remembering as a child chanting "a million million is a billion, a million billion is a trillion"; we adopted the American billion somewhere around 1980. I remember being startled when I started hearing BBC announcers and other British people saying billion for 10**9. Soon enough, it became clear that Britain had transitioned to the right way (joke). Though I still regret the US's aborting the shift to the metric system... "Though I still regret the US's aborting the shift to the metric system" Metric vs English in the US is an abortion of itself! Domestic cars often have mixtures of both, with slow progress to all metric sizes. Food packaging lists both, but the package size, including bottles, now favors smaller metric sizes. I'll know that things are getting serious when the common road markers and speed limit signs start listing distance in Metric and English units. B+ batteries - as a ten year old, I remember portable radios that used sub-miniature tubes and B+ Batteries, as well as the early pocket transistor AM radios. The cells inside the B+ batteries were referred to as "button cells", due to the round shape and size. There were two or even three different types of batteries used for filaments, plates, and bias. In the later 60's I was a Navy electronics tech. One of the shipboard "black boxes" ("grey box" in the navy) had over a hundred of the little sub-miniature tubes. At that time, transistorized portable TVs also existed, as did MIL Spec. early integrated circuits. Vacuum tubes are still used in some "Hi-Fi" audio equipment. The "smooth sound" is due to the way tubes handle harmonics, with a smooth roll off, as opposed to the rather sharp cutoff of transistors. One of the more interesting amplifier tubes still in use can be compared to a laser, due to the way it works. (Traveling Wave Tube or TWT) Seems as light in a laser, the RF signal bounces back and forth inside the tube, and is amplified with each bounce. These tubes are used most often for amplification of microwave frequencies in the GHZ range. |
#72
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OT.... but I need help
choro wrote:
On 04/11/2012 01:18, Gene E. Bloch wrote: On Fri, 02 Nov 2012 22:27:45 -0400, Paul wrote: Quartz oscillators can have a trimmer cap in the design. And that can be used to trim out the initial tolerance. My digital watch has one of those in it. The last time I looked inside a quartz watch, I couldn't find a trimmer, to my (mild) annoyance. It was a Timex, if that is in any way relevant. What do you need a trimmer for IF it has been set properly at the factory. -- choro ***** A trimmer can be used to correct for quartz aging, on a digital watch. Even if a watch is "perfect" when it leaves the factory, it won't be perfect any more in ten years time. Paul |
#73
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OT.... but I need help
Paul wrote:
choro wrote: On 04/11/2012 01:18, Gene E. Bloch wrote: On Fri, 02 Nov 2012 22:27:45 -0400, Paul wrote: Quartz oscillators can have a trimmer cap in the design. And that can be used to trim out the initial tolerance. My digital watch has one of those in it. The last time I looked inside a quartz watch, I couldn't find a trimmer, to my (mild) annoyance. It was a Timex, if that is in any way relevant. What do you need a trimmer for IF it has been set properly at the factory. -- choro ***** A trimmer can be used to correct for quartz aging, on a digital watch. Even if a watch is "perfect" when it leaves the factory, it won't be perfect any more in ten years time. Paul Even the old analog watches needed adjustment. We had a gadget at work (a government lab), for tuning wind up watch mechanisms. They were used on chart recorders left outdoors. (You'd wind the mainspring, and the chart recorder would run for a week at a constant speed.) But, the same tuning machine, could also be used to tune watches, and I suspect the machine was used for as many employee watches, as it was used for field chart recorders. It had chart paper output, and the line drawn on the paper would drift left or right, if your watch was off. I couldn't find a picture of one. I see now, there's an electronic version. So no more chart paper as proof of adjustment. This takes all the fun out of it. http://www.witschi.com/e/produkte/?sub=1&cat=&id=239 Paul |
#74
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OT.... but I need help
On 04/11/2012 11:22, charlie wrote:
On 11/3/2012 10:07 PM, Gene E. Bloch wrote: On Sat, 3 Nov 2012 20:47:35 +0000, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote: The differences between our languages bring much enjoyment to me (as well as occasional frustration)! Can't think of anything computer-specific, other than perhaps remembering as a child chanting "a million million is a billion, a million billion is a trillion"; we adopted the American billion somewhere around 1980. I remember being startled when I started hearing BBC announcers and other British people saying billion for 10**9. Soon enough, it became clear that Britain had transitioned to the right way (joke). Though I still regret the US's aborting the shift to the metric system... "Though I still regret the US's aborting the shift to the metric system" Metric vs English in the US is an abortion of itself! Domestic cars often have mixtures of both, with slow progress to all metric sizes. Food packaging lists both, but the package size, including bottles, now favors smaller metric sizes. I'll know that things are getting serious when the common road markers and speed limit signs start listing distance in Metric and English units. B+ batteries - as a ten year old, I remember portable radios that used sub-miniature tubes and B+ Batteries, as well as the early pocket transistor AM radios. The cells inside the B+ batteries were referred to as "button cells", due to the round shape and size. There were two or even three different types of batteries used for filaments, plates, and bias. In the later 60's I was a Navy electronics tech. One of the shipboard "black boxes" ("grey box" in the navy) had over a hundred of the little sub-miniature tubes. At that time, transistorized portable TVs also existed, as did MIL Spec. early integrated circuits. Vacuum tubes are still used in some "Hi-Fi" audio equipment. The "smooth sound" is due to the way tubes handle harmonics, with a smooth roll off, as opposed to the rather sharp cutoff of transistors. One of the more interesting amplifier tubes still in use can be compared to a laser, due to the way it works. (Traveling Wave Tube or TWT) Seems as light in a laser, the RF signal bounces back and forth inside the tube, and is amplified with each bounce. These tubes are used most often for amplification of microwave frequencies in the GHZ range. Interesting stuff! Vacuum tubes are still very common in music equipment, such as guitar amplifiers. Most guitarists insist on using vacuum tubes, indeed due by the tube characteristics when in overdrive mode. They create a good sound. Transistorized amps can't match tube amps. Fokke |
#75
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OT.... but I need help
On 04/11/2012 10:58, Paul wrote:
Paul wrote: choro wrote: On 04/11/2012 01:18, Gene E. Bloch wrote: On Fri, 02 Nov 2012 22:27:45 -0400, Paul wrote: Quartz oscillators can have a trimmer cap in the design. And that can be used to trim out the initial tolerance. My digital watch has one of those in it. The last time I looked inside a quartz watch, I couldn't find a trimmer, to my (mild) annoyance. It was a Timex, if that is in any way relevant. What do you need a trimmer for IF it has been set properly at the factory. -- choro ***** A trimmer can be used to correct for quartz aging, on a digital watch. Even if a watch is "perfect" when it leaves the factory, it won't be perfect any more in ten years time. Paul Even the old analog watches needed adjustment. We had a gadget at work (a government lab), for tuning wind up watch mechanisms. They were used on chart recorders left outdoors. (You'd wind the mainspring, and the chart recorder would run for a week at a constant speed.) But, the same tuning machine, could also be used to tune watches, and I suspect the machine was used for as many employee watches, as it was used for field chart recorders. It had chart paper output, and the line drawn on the paper would drift left or right, if your watch was off. I couldn't find a picture of one. I see now, there's an electronic version. So no more chart paper as proof of adjustment. This takes all the fun out of it. http://www.witschi.com/e/produkte/?sub=1&cat=&id=239 Paul You are perfectly right on this score, of course, but not many people keep their quartz watches that long these days, with the exception of course of extremely expensive models. Watches are so cheap these days that it is cheaper to buy a new quartz watch than to have one, quartz *or* mechanical, serviced. -- choro ***** |
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