cloud OS?

"mechanic" wrote

| Microsoft would like Windows to be a cloud OS, just so MSFT can charge
| you rent on your software.
|
| What's wrong with that? We are already used to a rental system on
| our cars (in the UK called Personal Contract Purchase or PCP). It's
| the way things are going.

?? Speak for yourself. I have only software that I
bought, wrote, or got for free. No monthly payments.
No ads. My pickup truck is scheduled to be paid off
in 2 years.

In the US one can lease a vehicle. It's similar to
buying in terms of payments, but you don't own it
at the end of the term and there are limits in terms
of what you can do with it. (For instance, I've
installed a custom cap on my pickup. Couldn't drill
the holes for it with a leased vehicle.)

Leasing sometimes makes sense for businesses
that are writing off the costs, but it's hardly "the
way things are going" for people to no longer have
their own personal possessions. At least not in
the US. The UK seems to be both more socialistic
and more fascistic, so maybe that accounts for
your experience.

Software rental is a fad mostly for one reason:
The market is mature and software companies can
no longer depend on selling grossly overpriced,
periodic updates. That's tough for monopoly
products especially. Thus, MS Office 365 and
Adobe Creative Cloud are both rental and both
seem to be doing well. They're doing well specifically
because rental costs a lot more than buying the
software, at least for the average person who
doesn't need to buy every update. But the people
renting often want every update of that monopoly
product and use it for work. So they'll pay.

In order to move along the rental trend, companies
like Microsoft are making it harder to control your
computer, in the name of security and convenience.
There's also been a trend toward constant updating.
In a few short years people have gone from a view
that they buy software and use it for several years
to a view that it's normal for all software to need
constant updates, and that all those updates are
good by definition. That kind of thinking makes rental
software and services seem sensible. So again, that
approach has been pushed, mostly in the name of
security.

A lot of dubious profits are being made in the name
of security. People are literally being scared into
opening their wallets.

Online services also come into the picture. Many
people do want to use something like an iPad or
cellphone to shop online, play games, etc. They want
convenience. They often don't care much about ads
or privacy. And they don't really distinguish between
owning, services and rental. They just want the thing
to work. Most of that usage is consumeritic rather
than productive. In other words, those people are not
using those devices to do anything like work. So they
don't much care about the idea of owning the device
and the files on it.

On Sat, 30 Dec 2017 13:37:46 -0500, Mayayana wrote:

"mechanic" wrote

| Microsoft would like Windows to be a cloud OS, just so MSFT can
charge | you rent on your software.
|
| What's wrong with that? We are already used to a rental system on |
our cars (in the UK called Personal Contract Purchase or PCP). It's |
the way things are going.

?? Speak for yourself. I have only software that I
bought, wrote, or got for free. No monthly payments.
No ads. My pickup truck is scheduled to be paid off in 2 years.


Similar here - I own all the software and I havn't bought car on time
since 1968.

On Sat, 30 Dec 2017 13:37:46 -0500, "Mayayana"
wrote:

In order to move along the rental trend, companies
like Microsoft are making it harder to control your
computer,

Windows is already legacy.

The leading operating system on the planet is Android - it`s free,
apps are free or cheap. And you still can keep your files locally e.
g. on a hard disk, if you want:
https://www.cnet.com/how-to/how-to-u...ndroid-phones/
PHONES
Use external storage to expand unexpandable Android phones
If your phone lacks a microSD slot, you can still add extra storage.
Here's how.
BY
RICK BROIDA
MAY 26, 2017 2:54 PM PDT

Bottom line: Never computing power for consumers was cheaper than
today, never they had more choices (to make).

M.

"Michael Logies" wrote

| Windows is already legacy.

The OS used by the vast majority of businesses
is "legacy"? I suppose that what you really mean
is that using a computer to do work is "legacy".
Perhaps it is for you. Somehow I can't quite picture
a secretarial pool or a group of stockbrokers all
sitting in rows doing their work on an Android phone,
with a toothpick for typing.

| The leading operating system on the planet is Android - it`s free,
| apps are free or cheap. And you still can keep your files locally e.
| g. on a hard disk, if you want:
|
https://www.cnet.com/how-to/how-to-u...ndroid-phones/
|

You represent the consumer voice. The
people who don't mind spying, don't mind not owning
their own files, and mainly want to shop, Facebook,
or play games. The DiddleSphere. What I find odd is
that while you're happy to pay through the nose for
your phone and the service that makes it usable, you
don't want to pay even a few dollars for software.
You'd rather pay with your privacy and your dignity.
Then you turn around and say it's all free! What's free?
The ads?

I can get 3 Windows computers for the cost of a
top-end Android cellphone. And even after paying
so much for the phone, Google and the app makers
would spy on me and sell me out to advertisers. Here's
a report from NYT this week:

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/28/b...-tracking.html

It's about phone apps rigged to monitor and recognize
audio output in order to report to advertisers what
TV shows you watch on your phone, and where you were
when you watched them. I'm amazed at what people
are putting up with. Have you no self-respect?

| Bottom line: Never computing power for consumers was cheaper than
| today, never they had more choices (to make).
|

You can choose between iPhone and Android.
Then you can choose the carrier who bills
you $1,000+/year to use it. Then you can choose
a selection of kiddie games and commercial
shopping apps to run. (Why do you think they
call it Google *Play*?) Are there other choices?
Are you running Photoshop or AutoCAD on you
3" screen? If so then why in the world would
you do that?

On 12/30/17 2:34 PM, BurfordTJustice wrote:
When do you expect to have this on the market?/




when you code it and give me the copyright





"dale" wrote in message
...
: After around 25 years of enjoying peer-peer desktop computing with self
: administration I look back to client/server models and want something
: for most of what I do without my own machine/network admin.
:
: How about a terminal/thin-client running a cloud distributed java
: byte-code OS with availability of byte-code apps including development?
: The only thing besides that I would want is hardware input/output like:
: CD/DVD, USB stick, memory card, etc. might give a rise to the hardware
: consumable market ...
:
: With the right model I think OS or network development is even possible
:
: --
: Not a professional opinion unless specified.
: dale - http://www.dalekelly.org/





--
Not a professional opinion unless specified.
dale - http://www.dalekelly.org/

On Sat, 30 Dec 2017 15:04:23 -0500, "Mayayana"
wrote:

The OS used by the vast majority of businesses
is "legacy"?

Yes, it is on its way to legacy even for businesses. I own a business
(dentist) and have about 7 Windows PCs in my office. I would prefer a
dental cloud solution which for legal and technical reasons is still
not available in germany. Less hassle, less admin work for me. I
assume, that I will use Windows my last 15 years in my office, but the
next generation will throw it out.

I suppose that what you really mean
is that using a computer to do work is "legacy".

No. For working in the cloud a PC with "Chrome OS" oder "Cloudready"
is good enough. My daughter uses a 24" Dell-monitor (1920*1200 pixel)
and a usual keyboard and mouse with her Chromebit. The Chromebit is
easily the device booting fastest of all my PCs (but it is always on,
anyhow), same is true for updates, which take about 10-20 seconds (not
minutes or hours like Windows).

You represent the consumer voice. The
people who don't mind spying,

I don`t believe that Microsoft is better. And even on Chrome OS the
web browser can be used with an ad blocker (uBlock origin).

don't mind not owning their own files,

As I wrote: With Android (and with Chrome OS) you still can have your
files locally.

You'd rather pay with your privacy and your dignity.

Not more than with Microsoft. I would say: With more dignity.
Microsoft makes me a babysitting slave of my PCs, Chrome OS does not.

Then you turn around and say it's all free! What's free?
The ads?

I dont`s see ads, not on Windows, nor on Android nor on Chrome OS. VPN
(with ad and malware blocking) or ad blocker for the web browser for
all of them.

I can get 3 Windows computers for the cost of a
top-end Android cellphone.

I`m quite happy with my Honor 6X, 220 Euros. The Chromebit was 120
Euros. Much cheaper than a Windows Pc.

Here's
a report from NYT this week:

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/28/b...-tracking.html

I don`t play games on my Androids or PCs. And I try to choose my apps
more carefully.

It's about phone apps rigged to monitor and recognize
audio output in order to report to advertisers what
TV shows you watch on your phone,

I don`t do. For me it`s mostly an email, news and RSS machine ("News+"
for Inoreader.com). I just showed my father how to miracast his
pictures and films from his Honor 5C to his TV. It was more stable
from his Android than from my new Windows laptop (which I need for RDP
over Hamachi to my office). Backup will be done automatically by
Google Fotos to his Google account, free & no limits for number of
pictures and films.

You can choose between iPhone and Android.
Then you can choose the carrier who bills
you $1,000+/year to use it.

Family members use their Androids mainly in the WLAN of our home or
office. I pay between 0 and 3 ¤ per month for a mobile contract.

(Why do you think they
call it Google *Play*?) Are there other choices?

There are other app store, yes, but Google Play is sufficent for me.
E. g. the the following health apps on my android: 7M Workout (Johnson
& Johnson), AHRQ ePSS, AcciDent, NICE guidance, Heatbeats, Ada.
Perhapy you woul like RealCalc (RPN), CALCU or phyphox.

Are you running Photoshop or AutoCAD on you
3" screen? If so then why in the world would
you do that?

I have a laptop with Android (HP Slatebook 14) with mouse but recently
switched to a faster Windows laptop. Nevertheless: Chrome OS has about
60% of the school market in the US. It is present and future. And
Photoshop is already in the cloud. But for most of us Google Fotos
will be enough, as the other Google Apps:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G_Suite

Regards

M.

"Michael Logies" wrote

| Yes, it is on its way to legacy even for businesses. I own a business
| (dentist) and have about 7 Windows PCs in my office. I would prefer a
| dental cloud solution which for legal and technical reasons is still
| not available in germany. Less hassle, less admin work for me. I
| assume, that I will use Windows my last 15 years in my office, but the
| next generation will throw it out.
|
| I suppose that what you really mean
| is that using a computer to do work is "legacy".
|
| No. For working in the cloud a PC with "Chrome OS" oder "Cloudready"
| is good enough. My daughter uses a 24" Dell-monitor (1920*1200 pixel)
| and a usual keyboard and mouse with her Chromebit. The Chromebit is
| easily the device booting fastest of all my PCs (but it is always on,
| anyhow), same is true for updates, which take about 10-20 seconds (not
| minutes or hours like Windows).
|

We don't seem to be diagreeing except in interpretation.
You use Windows PCs at work, with local software. Your
daughter uses a Chromebook, for unspecified things.
School work online? You use your phone mainly for email.
The only difference is that you feel it shouldn't
have to be that way. And you trust Google. And
you want a simple device that needs no expertise
to run.

The latter makes sense to me. I can see the appeal
of a tablet for easy things that need computing, where
one doesn't want to be hassled with drivers, software,
hardware, etc. But I don't see the logic of conflating
the two things. The existence of tablets has nothing
to do with the life of desktops, just as the existence of
microwave ovens doesn't make stoves obsolete. A
microwave is a limited-use, specialty tool. (Though just
as some people are glued to their phones, some people
only eat microwave-ready frozen dinners and would be
happy in a studio apt with no stove.

| don't mind not owning their own files,
|
| As I wrote: With Android (and with Chrome OS) you still can have your
| files locally.
|

I don't mean that. I mean that Google products are spyware.
You can get gmail via POP and keep the email locally, but
you can't stop Google from reading your email and claiming
to co-own it. Even the Chrome browser is rife with spyware.
Spyware-generated advertising is their business. They're not
a software or search company and haven't been for a long
time.

https://www.srware.net/en/software_s...me_vs_iron.php

It's up to you if you don't mind the ads, spying and
hijacked private files. But others are also free to mind.
And many of us do.

| I dont`s see ads, not on Windows, nor on Android nor on Chrome OS. VPN
| (with ad and malware blocking) or ad blocker for the web browser for
| all of them.
|

I don't use a computer phone, so I don't know
how ads work there, but I do know from reading
that many apps are making their money as spyware
selling data to advertisers. It's becoming the new
malware.
Ironically, one of the reason I don't have
a computer phone (besides cost, irrelevance and
privacy issues) is because I would want to learn
the system in order to trust it in terms of privacy
and security. And I don't want to have to take on
such a big learning project just to use a phone.
.... So you want phones and tablets and cloud for
convenience and simplicity while I see them as a
very big complication.

As for Windows ads, what about ads for Candy Crush
or MS Office in Metro buttons? Suggestions in the
Start Menu? One Drive ads in File Explorer? A friend
recently told me she avoids the Tile UI mainly
because there are changing, animated ads that
are distracting. And what about all the people complaining
that they've removed something only to have it come
back with the next update?

Maybe you've managed to corral all those things?
Nevertheless, they're doing it.
In Win7 or earlier it would have been unthinkable
for Microsoft to be poking around on a daily basis
and inserting such ads. At worst, that would have
been the shovelware on OEM PCs, like the sneaky
MS Office or Symantec trialware. It seems to me
that MS is taking the boiled frog approach, and it's
working. People using Win10 are very gradually getting
used to lowered expectations and don't even notice
ads being inserted. They no longer expect to control the
system.

In article , am
says...

"Michael Logies" wrote

| Windows is already legacy.

The OS used by the vast majority of businesses
is "legacy"? I suppose that what you really mean
is that using a computer to do work is "legacy".
Perhaps it is for you. Somehow I can't quite picture
a secretarial pool or a group of stockbrokers all
sitting in rows doing their work on an Android phone,
with a toothpick for typing.

| The leading operating system on the planet is Android - it`s free,
| apps are free or cheap. And you still can keep your files locally e.
| g. on a hard disk, if you want:
|
https://www.cnet.com/how-to/how-to-u...ndroid-phones/
|

You represent the consumer voice. The
people who don't mind spying, don't mind not owning
their own files, and mainly want to shop, Facebook,
or play games. The DiddleSphere. What I find odd is
that while you're happy to pay through the nose for
your phone and the service that makes it usable, you
don't want to pay even a few dollars for software.
You'd rather pay with your privacy and your dignity.
Then you turn around and say it's all free! What's free?
The ads?

I can get 3 Windows computers for the cost of a
top-end Android cellphone. And even after paying
so much for the phone, Google and the app makers
would spy on me and sell me out to advertisers. Here's
a report from NYT this week:

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/28/b...-tracking.html

It's about phone apps rigged to monitor and recognize
audio output in order to report to advertisers what
TV shows you watch on your phone, and where you were
when you watched them. I'm amazed at what people
are putting up with. Have you no self-respect?

| Bottom line: Never computing power for consumers was cheaper than
| today, never they had more choices (to make).
|

You can choose between iPhone and Android.

I just don't own a phone except house's landline for emergencies and it
works when power is out which cell towers don't do I suspect.

"pjp" wrote

| I just don't own a phone except house's landline for emergencies and it
| works when power is out which cell towers don't do I suspect.

I do the same. But I'm a building contractor
and have been under increasing pressure from people
who want to text me, or who tell me their doorbell
doesn't work so, "call me when you get here". My
solution has been to get a Tracphone. $20 + $20
every 3 months to have a phone booth in my truck.
But I go for weeks without using it. And I don't
allow texts. I have to pay for each one and I don't
want people being in the habit of interrupting me.
Though some people don't pay attention to my warning
and text me anyway. Then they get upset that I
didn't read it.

What surprises me is the number of people who
think landlines are outdated, yet can't get a signal
half the time. I have one brother who can't get a
signal at home at all. Too rural. When they do have
a signal the sound is often poor. Or they don't pay
attention to holding the phone up to their mouth
and I can't hear them. It's actually a poorly
functioning technology. But maybe people aren't
noticing because they're doing more texting than
talking now.

On 12/30/2017 8:31 PM, Mayayana wrote:
"pjp" wrote

| I just don't own a phone except house's landline for emergencies and it
| works when power is out which cell towers don't do I suspect.

I do the same. But I'm a building contractor
and have been under increasing pressure from people
who want to text me, or who tell me their doorbell
doesn't work so, "call me when you get here". My
solution has been to get a Tracphone. $20 + $20
every 3 months to have a phone booth in my truck.
But I go for weeks without using it. And I don't
allow texts. I have to pay for each one and I don't
want people being in the habit of interrupting me.
Though some people don't pay attention to my warning
and text me anyway. Then they get upset that I
didn't read it.

What surprises me is the number of people who
think landlines are outdated, yet can't get a signal
half the time. I have one brother who can't get a
signal at home at all. Too rural. When they do have
a signal the sound is often poor. Or they don't pay
attention to holding the phone up to their mouth
and I can't hear them. It's actually a poorly
functioning technology. But maybe people aren't
noticing because they're doing more texting than
talking now.




Whoever invented texting should have had a swift kick or 3 in the butt.
Lets hear it for good old POTS line, Yeeeah.

Rene

On Sat, 30 Dec 2017 18:16:35 -0500, "Mayayana"
wrote:

"Michael Logies" wrote

| No. For working in the cloud a PC with "Chrome OS" oder "Cloudready"
| is good enough. My daughter uses a 24" Dell-monitor (1920*1200 pixel)
| and a usual keyboard and mouse with her Chromebit. The Chromebit is
| easily the device booting fastest of all my PCs (but it is always on,
| anyhow), same is true for updates, which take about 10-20 seconds (not
| minutes or hours like Windows).
|

We don't seem to be diagreeing except in interpretation.
You use Windows PCs at work, with local software. Your
daughter uses a Chromebook,

No, a Chromebit. That is a full PC in the size of an USB-stick, with a
big monitor and a big keyboard and mouse attached for using web apps
(from Google and others).

Web apps are (often) conceptionally superior to local programs: No
need for upgrading by the end user, the web app is upgraded centrally
instead. No need for massive, local CPU power, because the heavy
lifting is done centrally. No need for big local storage, because data
is stored centrally. The result is a cheaper, safer, easier use of
computer power. Economics of scale are at work here and that`s why
this will be the dominant way of computing in the future.

for unspecified things.
School work online?

Yes. For writing reports, presentations, editing pictures from the
smartphone, putting them into presentations. Next step may be
collaborating on the same documents with others, which is simple and
free with Google Apps.

You use your phone mainly for email.

For inoreader.com, collected with news+ (Android app). Then I forward
good articles by email to some mailing lists and people, including
myself. That`s faster than on a PC.

The latter makes sense to me. I can see the appeal
of a tablet

I have not written about a tablet.

The existence of tablets has nothing
to do with the life of desktops, just as the existence of
microwave ovens doesn't make stoves obsolete.

A better analogy would be the fate of open fires after the introducing
of central heating.

I don't mean that. I mean that Google products are spyware.

Then choose another web app provider. Chrome OS/Cloudread has an
anonymous (guest) mode.

Ironically, one of the reason I don't have
a computer phone (besides cost, irrelevance and
privacy issues) is because I would want to learn
the system

In the future "the system" will be mainly in the cloud, connected to
dumber terminals. You don`t learn to operate a power station to use
your electricity at home, do you?

in order to trust it in terms of privacy
and security. And I don't want to have to take on
such a big learning project just to use a phone.

Smartphones are the dominant computer platform today because they are
much more simple than a PC, cheaper, easier to carry.

As for Windows ads, what about ads for Candy Crush
or MS Office in Metro buttons?

I deinstalled these. Havn`t seen other ads on my PCs with Windows 10.

Regards

M:

On Sun, 31 Dec 2017 10:48:25 +0100, Michael Logies wrote:

Smartphones are the dominant computer platform today because they are
much more simple than a PC, cheaper, easier to carry.

That's an interesting point, I suppose if you count numbers it's
probably true that most computers in use today are accounted for by
smartphones. Pity Android phones are so hard to network (compared to
Apple iPhones); Windows Homegroup networking is so much more of a
problem than Apple networking - my daughter's Apple setup includes
their AppleTV and almost anything can be accessed from any local
Apple device with none of the problems that setting up MSFT
Homegroup throws up. Networking is about the only thing MSFT still
hasn't got right after so many Windows versions.

On Sat, 30 Dec 2017 20:58:30 -0600, Rene Lamontagne wrote:

Whoever invented texting should have had a swift kick or 3 in the
butt. Lets hear it for good old POTS line, Yeeeah.

I wonder what the usage numbers for landline compared to mobile
phone are. And many landline connections here are mainly for the
broadband service, not POTS.

On 30 Dec 2017 19:14:19 GMT, ray carter wrote:

On Sat, 30 Dec 2017 13:37:46 -0500, Mayayana wrote:

"mechanic" wrote

| Microsoft would like Windows to be a cloud OS, just so MSFT can
charge | you rent on your software.
|
| What's wrong with that? We are already used to a rental system
| on |
our cars (in the UK called Personal Contract Purchase or PCP).
It's | the way things are going.

?? Speak for yourself. I have only software that I bought,
wrote, or got for free. No monthly payments. No ads. My pickup
truck is scheduled to be paid off in 2 years.


Similar here - I own all the software and I havn't bought car on
time since 1968.

So many things are rented these days, media services, smartphones,
cars, cycles (in town centres), dwellings... it's a trend. Looking
at your bank statements and counting the number of payments that are
for goods and services paid for on a monthly basis can be a bit
worrying...

On 30/12/2017 07:37, dale wrote:
After around 25 years of enjoying peer-peer desktop computing with self
administration I look back to client/server models and want something
for most of what I do without my own machine/network admin.

How about a terminal/thin-client running a cloud distributed java
byte-code OS with availability of byte-code apps including development?
The only thing besides that I would want is hardware input/output like:
CD/DVD, USB stick, memory card, etc. might give a rise to the hardware
consumable market ...

With the right model I think OS or network development is even possible

IBM 3270/Linux/Unix terminals?

--
@~@ Remain silent! Drink, Blink, Stretch! Live long and prosper!!
/ v \ Simplicity is Beauty!
/( _ )\ May the Force and farces be with you!
^ ^ (x86_64 Ubuntu 9.10) Linux 2.6.39.3
�借貸! ��騙! ��交! �打交! �打劫! �自殺! 請考慮綜� (CSSA):
http://www.swd.gov.hk/tc/index/site_...sub_addressesa