Microsoft U-turn on 'nasty trick' pop-up

Microsoft accused of Windows 10 upgrade 'nasty trick'
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-36367221

Microsoft U-turn on 'nasty trick' pop-up
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-36376962
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On 25-May-2016 16:22, Java Jive wrote:
Microsoft accused of Windows 10 upgrade 'nasty trick'
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-36367221

Microsoft U-turn on 'nasty trick' pop-up
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-36376962


That's not a U-turn. If you click the red X or OK button it will still
install.

You still have to click on the "click *here* to cancel the install.

Sergey pretended :
On 25-May-2016 16:22, Java Jive wrote:
Microsoft accused of Windows 10 upgrade 'nasty trick'
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-36367221

Microsoft U-turn on 'nasty trick' pop-up
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-36376962


That's not a U-turn. If you click the red X or OK button it will still
install.

You still have to click on the "click *here* to cancel the install.

IMO this is an overblown event. Since when has the red x meant anything
other than just to dismiss the window.

The real 'nasty trick' is what it has always been, the 'opt out' rather
than 'opt in' policy which Microsoft has chosen in order to foist
Windows 10 upon the masses. Adding insult to injury for their policy of
nagging customers and the aforementioned
(http://www.infoworld.com/article/304...ws-10-ads.html)
virtually the 'shaming' of business IT staff for not 'updating' to
Windows 10.

FromTheRafters wrote:
Sergey pretended :
On 25-May-2016 16:22, Java Jive wrote:
Microsoft accused of Windows 10 upgrade 'nasty trick'
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-36367221

Microsoft U-turn on 'nasty trick' pop-up
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-36376962


That's not a U-turn. If you click the red X or OK button it will still
install.

You still have to click on the "click *here* to cancel the install.

IMO this is an overblown event. Since when has the red x meant anything
other than just to dismiss the window.

The real 'nasty trick' is what it has always been, the 'opt out' rather
than 'opt in' policy which Microsoft has chosen in order to foist
Windows 10 upon the masses. Adding insult to injury for their policy of
nagging customers and the aforementioned
(http://www.infoworld.com/article/304...ws-10-ads.html)
virtually the 'shaming' of business IT staff for not 'updating' to
Windows 10.

Give it some lovin.

http://blog.ultimateoutsider.com/201...ly-remove.html

At the very least, that program sets
a couple registry keys for you. Which
should help with any "opting" you might
want to do.

Paul

| IMO this is an overblown event. Since when has the red x meant anything
| other than just to dismiss the window.
|

For most people closing the window means
"No thanks, I don't want whatever you're selling."
The Microsofties know that. If people weren't being
fooled by it there would be no complaints.

I remember the first time I saw AOL. I logged in
and a message came up asking if I wanted to apply
for a credit card. The options were Yes and Ask
Me Later. What?! Somehow that kind of sleaze
has become normal online, despite being unacceptable
in other areas of life.

Paul formulated the question :
FromTheRafters wrote:
Sergey pretended :
On 25-May-2016 16:22, Java Jive wrote:
Microsoft accused of Windows 10 upgrade 'nasty trick'
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-36367221

Microsoft U-turn on 'nasty trick' pop-up
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-36376962


That's not a U-turn. If you click the red X or OK button it will still
install.

You still have to click on the "click *here* to cancel the install.

IMO this is an overblown event. Since when has the red x meant anything
other than just to dismiss the window.

The real 'nasty trick' is what it has always been, the 'opt out' rather
than 'opt in' policy which Microsoft has chosen in order to foist Windows
10 upon the masses. Adding insult to injury for their policy of nagging
customers and the aforementioned
(http://www.infoworld.com/article/304...ws-10-ads.html)
virtually the 'shaming' of business IT staff for not 'updating' to Windows
10.

Give it some lovin.

http://blog.ultimateoutsider.com/201...ly-remove.html

At the very least, that program sets
a couple registry keys for you. Which
should help with any "opting" you might
want to do.

Paul

True enough, but I'm immune anyway running XP and Vista. Another
computer (my sister's new laptop) is already "updated" to Windows 10. I
figured that she was already complaining about 8.1 so she might as well
complain about 10.

After serious thinking Mayayana wrote :
IMO this is an overblown event. Since when has the red x meant anything
other than just to dismiss the window.


For most people closing the window means
"No thanks, I don't want whatever you're selling."
The Microsofties know that. If people weren't being
fooled by it there would be no complaints.

True, but this opt-out thing has been around for quite a while in other
areas and x-ing out still only dismisses the window. If Microsoft
wasn't using the opt-out policy then dismissing the window wouldn't
anger anybody as it does what it always has done.

I remember the first time I saw AOL. I logged in
and a message came up asking if I wanted to apply
for a credit card. The options were Yes and Ask
Me Later. What?! Somehow that kind of sleaze
has become normal online, despite being unacceptable
in other areas of life.

Agreed. That is why I say *that* is the crux of the problem. OTOH what
people are comparing it to is the malware which makes the x mean yes I
want to go to your exploit kit landing page instead of merely
dismissing the pop-up window. It is an entirely different thing.

I agree with those who say Microsoft should be ashamed for using this
method, but still - it is not like the malware x-ing out trick.

Per FromTheRafters:
Since when has the red x meant anything
other than just to dismiss the window.

I would say "From the beginning of time...." closing a window or
dismissing a dialog has always meant just that....and *NOT* invoking the
offered-up processing in the dialog or window.
--
Pete Cresswell

FromTheRafters wrote on 05/25/2016 5:04 PM:
Sergey wrote :


IMO this is an overblown event. Since when has the red x meant anything
other than just to dismiss the window.

Actually for quite some time it meant something different including
MSFT's own documentation/instructions available to developers for Windows 7.

Fyi...
Microsoft's stated (quoted content below)

"The Close button on the title bar should have the same effect as the
Cancel or Close button within the dialog box,"

Those guidelines were written for Windows 7, remain on Microsoft's
developer-aimed site

"Use Cancel or Close for negative commit buttons instead of specific
responses to the main instruction."

"Make sure the Close button on the title bar has the same effect as
Cancel or Close,"

All the above pretty much indicate a bit more than 'dismiss the window'


--
...winston
msft mvp windows experience

.. . .winston wrote :
FromTheRafters wrote on 05/25/2016 5:04 PM:
Sergey wrote :


IMO this is an overblown event. Since when has the red x meant anything
other than just to dismiss the window.

Actually for quite some time it meant something different including MSFT's
own documentation/instructions available to developers for Windows 7.

Fyi...
Microsoft's stated (quoted content below)

"The Close button on the title bar should have the same effect as the Cancel
or Close button within the dialog box,"

That's what I said. It is a non-response to the actual content.

Those guidelines were written for Windows 7, remain on Microsoft's
developer-aimed site

"Use Cancel or Close for negative commit buttons instead of specific
responses to the main instruction."

Yep, thay's what I said.

"Make sure the Close button on the title bar has the same effect as Cancel or
Close,"

All the above pretty much indicate a bit more than 'dismiss the window'

How so, since they state specifically, according to what you just
quoted, that it is *not* a specific response (either way) to the main
instruction (yes, no, ask me later, don't ask me again, or whatever)
button(s) do/does. IOW the x does exactly what the close or 'negative
commit' (not commit) button (just go away you damned window) does -
which does not commit to the instruction in a yes or no or whatever
manner? That sounds to me as if it only dismisses the window.

The fact that it is an opt-out chance is what is wrong with the
'content' of the window.

Sergey écrivait :

On 25-May-2016 16:22, Java Jive wrote:
Microsoft accused of Windows 10 upgrade 'nasty trick'
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-36367221

Microsoft U-turn on 'nasty trick' pop-up
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-36376962


That's not a U-turn. If you click the red X or OK button it will still
install.

You still have to click on the "click *here* to cancel the install.

It's like some WEB pages where there's a popup saying "Like us on
Facebook", you click the "x" close button on the popup and the first thing
you realize is that "you LIKE" the page on FB.

FromTheRafters wrote on 05/26/2016 8:10 AM:
. . .winston wrote :
FromTheRafters wrote on 05/25/2016 5:04 PM:
Sergey wrote :


IMO this is an overblown event. Since when has the red x meant anything
other than just to dismiss the window.

Actually for quite some time it meant something different including
MSFT's own documentation/instructions available to developers for
Windows 7.

Fyi...
Microsoft's stated (quoted content below)

"The Close button on the title bar should have the same effect as the
Cancel or Close button within the dialog box,"

That's what I said. It is a non-response to the actual content.

Those guidelines were written for Windows 7, remain on Microsoft's
developer-aimed site

"Use Cancel or Close for negative commit buttons instead of specific
responses to the main instruction."

Yep, thay's what I said.

"Make sure the Close button on the title bar has the same effect as
Cancel or Close,"

All the above pretty much indicate a bit more than 'dismiss the window'

How so, since they state specifically, according to what you just
quoted, that it is *not* a specific response (either way) to the main
instruction (yes, no, ask me later, don't ask me again, or whatever)
button(s) do/does. IOW the x does exactly what the close or 'negative
commit' (not commit) button (just go away you damned window) does -
which does not commit to the instruction in a yes or no or whatever
manner? That sounds to me as if it only dismisses the window.

The fact that it is an opt-out chance is what is wrong with the
'content' of the window.

The Close button is the X. In this case, until or unless it changes the
X doesn't Cancel.



--
...winston
msft mvp windows experience

.. . .winston wrote :
FromTheRafters wrote on 05/26/2016 8:10 AM:
. . .winston wrote :
FromTheRafters wrote on 05/25/2016 5:04 PM:
Sergey wrote :


IMO this is an overblown event. Since when has the red x meant anything
other than just to dismiss the window.

Actually for quite some time it meant something different including
MSFT's own documentation/instructions available to developers for
Windows 7.

Fyi...
Microsoft's stated (quoted content below)

"The Close button on the title bar should have the same effect as the
Cancel or Close button within the dialog box,"

That's what I said. It is a non-response to the actual content.

Those guidelines were written for Windows 7, remain on Microsoft's
developer-aimed site

"Use Cancel or Close for negative commit buttons instead of specific
responses to the main instruction."

Yep, thay's what I said.

"Make sure the Close button on the title bar has the same effect as
Cancel or Close,"

All the above pretty much indicate a bit more than 'dismiss the window'

How so, since they state specifically, according to what you just
quoted, that it is *not* a specific response (either way) to the main
instruction (yes, no, ask me later, don't ask me again, or whatever)
button(s) do/does. IOW the x does exactly what the close or 'negative
commit' (not commit) button (just go away you damned window) does -
which does not commit to the instruction in a yes or no or whatever
manner? That sounds to me as if it only dismisses the window.

The fact that it is an opt-out chance is what is wrong with the
'content' of the window.

The Close button is the X. In this case, until or unless it changes the X
doesn't Cancel.

Exactly! The difference is that Microsoft inverted the logic of the
question buy asking the user if they want to change the scheduled date
of change to Windows 10 or opt-out of the scheduled install completely.
By closing the dialog they choose not to do what was asked - that is do
you want to reschedule or opt-out of having Windows 10 install on
schedule, no.

The x acts as it always has, it is just the logic of the question which
has changed.

It reminds me of an old joke/game I knew as a kid. You know, where you
make a gun with your finger and aim - shoot - point the gun at your
face - blow the imaginary smoke from the muzzle - repeat two more times
- and the last time you blow while aiming and then shoot yourself in
the face.

Microsoft got people used to doing it one way and then swicthed the
logic of the question. They didn't change the action of the x as people
have claimed. Yes, it *is* a dirty trick, but not contrary to their
guidelines for using the dialog box close/x button. That still says
"no, now go away" just as it has always done.

On Thu, 26 May 2016 16:32:22 -0400, FromTheRafters
wrote:

. . .winston wrote :
FromTheRafters wrote on 05/26/2016 8:10 AM:
. . .winston wrote :
FromTheRafters wrote on 05/25/2016 5:04 PM:
Sergey wrote :


IMO this is an overblown event. Since when has the red x meant anything
other than just to dismiss the window.

Actually for quite some time it meant something different including
MSFT's own documentation/instructions available to developers for
Windows 7.

Fyi...
Microsoft's stated (quoted content below)

"The Close button on the title bar should have the same effect as the
Cancel or Close button within the dialog box,"

That's what I said. It is a non-response to the actual content.

Those guidelines were written for Windows 7, remain on Microsoft's
developer-aimed site

"Use Cancel or Close for negative commit buttons instead of specific
responses to the main instruction."

Yep, thay's what I said.

"Make sure the Close button on the title bar has the same effect as
Cancel or Close,"

All the above pretty much indicate a bit more than 'dismiss the window'

How so, since they state specifically, according to what you just
quoted, that it is *not* a specific response (either way) to the main
instruction (yes, no, ask me later, don't ask me again, or whatever)
button(s) do/does. IOW the x does exactly what the close or 'negative
commit' (not commit) button (just go away you damned window) does -
which does not commit to the instruction in a yes or no or whatever
manner? That sounds to me as if it only dismisses the window.

The fact that it is an opt-out chance is what is wrong with the
'content' of the window.

The Close button is the X. In this case, until or unless it changes the X
doesn't Cancel.

Exactly! The difference is that Microsoft inverted the logic of the
question buy asking the user if they want to change the scheduled date
of change to Windows 10 or opt-out of the scheduled install completely.
By closing the dialog they choose not to do what was asked - that is do
you want to reschedule or opt-out of having Windows 10 install on
schedule, no.

The x acts as it always has, it is just the logic of the question which
has changed.

It reminds me of an old joke/game I knew as a kid. You know, where you
make a gun with your finger and aim - shoot - point the gun at your
face - blow the imaginary smoke from the muzzle - repeat two more times
- and the last time you blow while aiming and then shoot yourself in
the face.

Microsoft got people used to doing it one way and then swicthed the
logic of the question. They didn't change the action of the x as people
have claimed. Yes, it *is* a dirty trick, but not contrary to their
guidelines for using the dialog box close/x button. That still says
"no, now go away" just as it has always done.

I think they changed it again. The popup I received today had no opt
out completely option. It was 5 pages long and there is nothing you
can do, if you don't want the upgrade, besides clicking the x in the
upper right hand corner. Well I suppose you can simply leave it there
and hope nothing will happen.

Ricardo Jimenez explained :

[...]

I think they changed it again. The popup I received today had no opt
out completely option. It was 5 pages long and there is nothing you
can do, if you don't want the upgrade, besides clicking the x in the
upper right hand corner. Well I suppose you can simply leave it there
and hope nothing will happen.

Somehow, I don't think that will work.