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  #286  
Old August 3rd 19, 04:05 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Paul[_32_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 11,873
Default Win7 support:

Robert in CA wrote:

So I guess when I first pull up the Mrimg
I should look for the AE70 or something similar?
So when I start the process I look for that as
the source. Is that correct?

Robert


The Macrium backup you made, if you start to restore
it, the disk-to-disk screen will show the source identifier,
and you can compare that to the destinations showing
on the screen. It would make sense if they matched,
as you assume the Windows 7 disk hasn't changed that
much since when the backup was made.

Since you use MBR disks as a rule, and not GPT, the
number should have 8 hex digits.

Paul
Ads
  #287  
Old August 3rd 19, 04:18 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Robert in CA
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 785
Default Win7 support:

On Saturday, August 3, 2019 at 8:02:00 AM UTC-7, Paul wrote:
Robert in CA wrote:
On Saturday, August 3, 2019 at 1:20:29 AM UTC-7, Paul wrote:
Robert in CA wrote:

So do I remove the F1 problem?

Robert
A "Press F1" error in this case is triggered
by enabling a SATA port and not having a SATA
drive present. That's probably a good thing when
RAID disks are involved, and a dumb idea if
RAID is disabled or not desired.

You could disable SATA ports when you're not using
them. That's perhaps one way to fix the "Press F1" error.

My motherboards here, have a

"Stop on" [No Error] == other values might be
[All errors]
[Floppy error]
[Whatever error]

option, that when an error occurs, the F1
prompt does *not* occur. But your Dell BIOS is
pretty clever and will undoubtedly do these
things a different way, right ?

Paul


This is why I removed the data cable and
un-ticked the WIN10 HD but you advised not
to do that. So should I put the bad Win7
and Win10 back and see if we can resolve
the problems because I don't want to mess
this HD up.

How about this.. remove the present HD and
replace with the Win 10 and see if I can get
it to load in Safe Mode.

Then try install the bad HD and see if I can
do a restore but I have a question on that.
I obviously needed a rescue disk to clone the
780 backup HD but I don't have a 780 rescue CD
so my question is this.

1. can I use the same rescue CD on the 8500 and 780?
2. the 780 CD drive isn't responding so should I redo
the boot order so all removable media is on top eg.

USB
Floppy drives
card readers
hard drive
hard drive

Then try and restore the bad drive?

Robert


Restoring CD/DVD drive operation is pretty important.

I would make sure the enabled SATA cables include the
CD optical drive port as well.

There is one screen in your BIOS, which shows device
identifications when the BIOS comes up. By checking
that screen, you can tell whether the SATA port
is enabled.

If the SATA connectors on the motherboard had good
silk screen labels on them, this would take the
mystery out of figuring out which port is running
the optical drive.

And it doesn't matter if you hit an F1 during this
"adjustment phase". In principle, you should be
able to switch on all the SATA ports, then use the
BIOS "identification" screen to verify which ports
got a response. Then, if you want, untick the ports
that don't have a drive connected.

I have had a common Macrium Reflect CD run two
computers (allow bootup), but that's not a certainty,
more likely just an accident. There could be
driver differences between versions of Macrium
discs, as to what is included, and I don't want
to guess at that.

I believe the defaults for the Optiplex 780, are
SATA1 and SATA2 enabled, and some RAID mode. SATA3
and SATA4 turned off (as when shipped, the 780
would have a disk drive on SATA1 and an optical
drive on SATA2, using up the ports which are
switched on).

On my computers here, they don't manage their SATA ports
that way. The enable/disable is independent of any F1 error.
An enabled port with no drive connected, causes not
a ripple in the BIOS state. It does not care. It
detects whatever drives it can find, compares them
to the boot menu, and away it goes. If I use the
popup boot key, I can select anything which has been
(dynamically) detected.

In principle, with two hard drives, you could

Original Win7 drive --- restore onto this one
Drive with the backup --- boot this one

Then remove the backup drive and install the Win10 drive

Win7 drive
Win10 drive

And have no CD in the picture at all at that point.
If the machine insists that SATA1 enabled and SATA2 enabled
is all that's going to work, that would be a start.

*******

The alternative is to do:

Original Win7 drive --+
Optical drive connected (boot Macrium CD) |
|
USB enclosure contains backup MRIMG ---------+

When you want the Win7 setup, use Win7 disk and CD drive:

Win7 drive
Optical drive

When you want the Win10 setup, use Win10 disk and CD drive:

Win10 drive
Optical drive

But personally, I would work on my BIOS skill set,
and discover what combination of ports makes three
things work. Because ultimately, you are the boss,
not the computer, and you really want it to do this.

Win7 drive SATA1
Win10 drive SATA2
Optical drive port SATA3

At this point, I'm trying not to meddle with the
state of the OSes themselves. Because it gets
too complicated, mixing OS-specific recipes with
your SATA-activity problem. If the OSes handled
driver issues more gracefully, I would be more
aggressive in my approach. In Windows 10, you
can get it to "consider" changing drivers, if you
boot to Safe Mode, then boot in regular mode.
It can pick up a hardware change if you do it
that way. But Safe Mode doesn't happen by pressing
F8 in Windows 10, *unless* you happen to add the
black boot screen by using BCDEDIT. Exactly why Microsoft
considers this a feature, is a mystery to me. Included
in that mystery, is how the black boot screen with
the F8 option *disappears* if you're multibooting.

HTH,
Paul


I did as you describe when I had the Win 10 HD and ticked
everything and unchecked SATA 3 and 4 then re-ticked them.

I agree about getting the BIOS working first.

I didn't realize that Win10 doesn't have the F8 option.

So I will concentrate on getting everything working on the
780 Win 7 first. Then we can move on.



Robert
  #288  
Old August 3rd 19, 04:23 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Robert in CA
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 785
Default Win7 support:



Well, start giving your partitions labels. In Windows Explorer, just
select a drive letter, right-click, and choose properties - there's an
obvious box near the top into which you can type a label. Macrium does
show these labels.




I just checked this for the C: drive
and I see what you mean.

Thanks,.. I think that would be the
easiest way for me identify not to mess
up.

Robert
  #289  
Old August 3rd 19, 04:40 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Robert in CA
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 785
Default Win7 support:

On Saturday, August 3, 2019 at 8:02:00 AM UTC-7, Paul wrote:
Robert in CA wrote:
On Saturday, August 3, 2019 at 1:20:29 AM UTC-7, Paul wrote:
Robert in CA wrote:

So do I remove the F1 problem?

Robert
A "Press F1" error in this case is triggered
by enabling a SATA port and not having a SATA
drive present. That's probably a good thing when
RAID disks are involved, and a dumb idea if
RAID is disabled or not desired.

You could disable SATA ports when you're not using
them. That's perhaps one way to fix the "Press F1" error.

My motherboards here, have a

"Stop on" [No Error] == other values might be
[All errors]
[Floppy error]
[Whatever error]

option, that when an error occurs, the F1
prompt does *not* occur. But your Dell BIOS is
pretty clever and will undoubtedly do these
things a different way, right ?

Paul


This is why I removed the data cable and
un-ticked the WIN10 HD but you advised not
to do that. So should I put the bad Win7
and Win10 back and see if we can resolve
the problems because I don't want to mess
this HD up.

How about this.. remove the present HD and
replace with the Win 10 and see if I can get
it to load in Safe Mode.

Then try install the bad HD and see if I can
do a restore but I have a question on that.
I obviously needed a rescue disk to clone the
780 backup HD but I don't have a 780 rescue CD
so my question is this.

1. can I use the same rescue CD on the 8500 and 780?
2. the 780 CD drive isn't responding so should I redo
the boot order so all removable media is on top eg.

USB
Floppy drives
card readers
hard drive
hard drive

Then try and restore the bad drive?

Robert


Restoring CD/DVD drive operation is pretty important.

I would make sure the enabled SATA cables include the
CD optical drive port as well.

There is one screen in your BIOS, which shows device
identifications when the BIOS comes up. By checking
that screen, you can tell whether the SATA port
is enabled.

If the SATA connectors on the motherboard had good
silk screen labels on them, this would take the
mystery out of figuring out which port is running
the optical drive.

And it doesn't matter if you hit an F1 during this
"adjustment phase". In principle, you should be
able to switch on all the SATA ports, then use the
BIOS "identification" screen to verify which ports
got a response. Then, if you want, untick the ports
that don't have a drive connected.

I have had a common Macrium Reflect CD run two
computers (allow bootup), but that's not a certainty,
more likely just an accident. There could be
driver differences between versions of Macrium
discs, as to what is included, and I don't want
to guess at that.

I believe the defaults for the Optiplex 780, are
SATA1 and SATA2 enabled, and some RAID mode. SATA3
and SATA4 turned off (as when shipped, the 780
would have a disk drive on SATA1 and an optical
drive on SATA2, using up the ports which are
switched on).

On my computers here, they don't manage their SATA ports
that way. The enable/disable is independent of any F1 error.
An enabled port with no drive connected, causes not
a ripple in the BIOS state. It does not care. It
detects whatever drives it can find, compares them
to the boot menu, and away it goes. If I use the
popup boot key, I can select anything which has been
(dynamically) detected.

In principle, with two hard drives, you could

Original Win7 drive --- restore onto this one
Drive with the backup --- boot this one

Then remove the backup drive and install the Win10 drive

Win7 drive
Win10 drive

And have no CD in the picture at all at that point.
If the machine insists that SATA1 enabled and SATA2 enabled
is all that's going to work, that would be a start.

*******

The alternative is to do:

Original Win7 drive --+
Optical drive connected (boot Macrium CD) |
|
USB enclosure contains backup MRIMG ---------+

When you want the Win7 setup, use Win7 disk and CD drive:

Win7 drive
Optical drive

When you want the Win10 setup, use Win10 disk and CD drive:

Win10 drive
Optical drive

But personally, I would work on my BIOS skill set,
and discover what combination of ports makes three
things work. Because ultimately, you are the boss,
not the computer, and you really want it to do this.

Win7 drive SATA1
Win10 drive SATA2
Optical drive port SATA3

At this point, I'm trying not to meddle with the
state of the OSes themselves. Because it gets
too complicated, mixing OS-specific recipes with
your SATA-activity problem. If the OSes handled
driver issues more gracefully, I would be more
aggressive in my approach. In Windows 10, you
can get it to "consider" changing drivers, if you
boot to Safe Mode, then boot in regular mode.
It can pick up a hardware change if you do it
that way. But Safe Mode doesn't happen by pressing
F8 in Windows 10, *unless* you happen to add the
black boot screen by using BCDEDIT. Exactly why Microsoft
considers this a feature, is a mystery to me. Included
in that mystery, is how the black boot screen with
the F8 option *disappears* if you're multibooting.

HTH,
Paul




On Saturday, August 3, 2019 at 8:02:00 AM UTC-7, Paul wrote:
Robert in CA wrote:
On Saturday, August 3, 2019 at 1:20:29 AM UTC-7, Paul wrote:
Robert in CA wrote:

So do I remove the F1 problem?

Robert
A "Press F1" error in this case is triggered
by enabling a SATA port and not having a SATA
drive present. That's probably a good thing when
RAID disks are involved, and a dumb idea if
RAID is disabled or not desired.

You could disable SATA ports when you're not using
them. That's perhaps one way to fix the "Press F1" error.

My motherboards here, have a

"Stop on" [No Error] == other values might be
[All errors]
[Floppy error]
[Whatever error]

option, that when an error occurs, the F1
prompt does *not* occur. But your Dell BIOS is
pretty clever and will undoubtedly do these
things a different way, right ?

Paul


This is why I removed the data cable and
un-ticked the WIN10 HD but you advised not
to do that. So should I put the bad Win7
and Win10 back and see if we can resolve
the problems because I don't want to mess
this HD up.

How about this.. remove the present HD and
replace with the Win 10 and see if I can get
it to load in Safe Mode.

Then try install the bad HD and see if I can
do a restore but I have a question on that.
I obviously needed a rescue disk to clone the
780 backup HD but I don't have a 780 rescue CD
so my question is this.

1. can I use the same rescue CD on the 8500 and 780?
2. the 780 CD drive isn't responding so should I redo
the boot order so all removable media is on top eg.

USB
Floppy drives
card readers
hard drive
hard drive

Then try and restore the bad drive?

Robert


Restoring CD/DVD drive operation is pretty important.

I would make sure the enabled SATA cables include the
CD optical drive port as well.

There is one screen in your BIOS, which shows device
identifications when the BIOS comes up. By checking
that screen, you can tell whether the SATA port
is enabled.

If the SATA connectors on the motherboard had good
silk screen labels on them, this would take the
mystery out of figuring out which port is running
the optical drive.

And it doesn't matter if you hit an F1 during this
"adjustment phase". In principle, you should be
able to switch on all the SATA ports, then use the
BIOS "identification" screen to verify which ports
got a response. Then, if you want, untick the ports
that don't have a drive connected.

I have had a common Macrium Reflect CD run two
computers (allow bootup), but that's not a certainty,
more likely just an accident. There could be
driver differences between versions of Macrium
discs, as to what is included, and I don't want
to guess at that.

I believe the defaults for the Optiplex 780, are
SATA1 and SATA2 enabled, and some RAID mode. SATA3
and SATA4 turned off (as when shipped, the 780
would have a disk drive on SATA1 and an optical
drive on SATA2, using up the ports which are
switched on).

On my computers here, they don't manage their SATA ports
that way. The enable/disable is independent of any F1 error.
An enabled port with no drive connected, causes not
a ripple in the BIOS state. It does not care. It
detects whatever drives it can find, compares them
to the boot menu, and away it goes. If I use the
popup boot key, I can select anything which has been
(dynamically) detected.

In principle, with two hard drives, you could

Original Win7 drive --- restore onto this one
Drive with the backup --- boot this one

Then remove the backup drive and install the Win10 drive

Win7 drive
Win10 drive

And have no CD in the picture at all at that point.
If the machine insists that SATA1 enabled and SATA2 enabled
is all that's going to work, that would be a start.

*******

The alternative is to do:

Original Win7 drive --+
Optical drive connected (boot Macrium CD) |
|
USB enclosure contains backup MRIMG ---------+

When you want the Win7 setup, use Win7 disk and CD drive:

Win7 drive
Optical drive

When you want the Win10 setup, use Win10 disk and CD drive:

Win10 drive
Optical drive

But personally, I would work on my BIOS skill set,
and discover what combination of ports makes three
things work. Because ultimately, you are the boss,
not the computer, and you really want it to do this.

Win7 drive SATA1
Win10 drive SATA2
Optical drive port SATA3

At this point, I'm trying not to meddle with the
state of the OSes themselves. Because it gets
too complicated, mixing OS-specific recipes with
your SATA-activity problem. If the OSes handled
driver issues more gracefully, I would be more
aggressive in my approach. In Windows 10, you
can get it to "consider" changing drivers, if you
boot to Safe Mode, then boot in regular mode.
It can pick up a hardware change if you do it
that way. But Safe Mode doesn't happen by pressing
F8 in Windows 10, *unless* you happen to add the
black boot screen by using BCDEDIT. Exactly why Microsoft
considers this a feature, is a mystery to me. Included
in that mystery, is how the black boot screen with
the F8 option *disappears* if you're multibooting.

HTH,
Paul




I went back and changed the boot order and then tried a CD
so it works!

https://postimg.cc/WFyv0Z8b

https://postimg.cc/DShKQnrs

I still need to resolve the F1 but were making progress.

Robert
  #290  
Old August 3rd 19, 04:53 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Robert in CA
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 785
Default Win7 support:



Well, start giving your partitions labels. In Windows Explorer, just
select a drive letter, right-click, and choose properties - there's an
obvious box near the top into which you can type a label. Macrium does
show these labels.



I just labeled my external HD with all the Mrimgs
so I shouldn't have any more proberms trying to figure
out which HD is which.

Thanks,

Robert
  #291  
Old August 3rd 19, 04:58 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Robert in CA
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 785
Default Win7 support:

This is no big deal

Something else I noticed,.. I started SuperAntispyware
and it's showing the last time run was 297 days ago.
Remember, I still had not restored this drive although
it doesn't really seem necessary at this point since I
keep virtually nothing on the 780 and is only a backup
computer but I had run this just a day or so ago so why
is it saying 297?

Robert
  #292  
Old August 3rd 19, 05:25 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Robert in CA
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 785
Default Win7 support:

On Saturday, August 3, 2019 at 8:58:53 AM UTC-7, Robert in CA wrote:
This is no big deal

Something else I noticed,.. I started SuperAntispyware
and it's showing the last time run was 297 days ago.
Remember, I still had not restored this drive although
it doesn't really seem necessary at this point since I
keep virtually nothing on the 780 and is only a backup
computer but I had run this just a day or so ago so why
is it saying 297?

Robert




On Saturday, August 3, 2019 at 8:58:53 AM UTC-7, Robert in CA wrote:
This is no big deal

Something else I noticed,.. I started SuperAntispyware
and it's showing the last time run was 297 days ago.
Remember, I still had not restored this drive although
it doesn't really seem necessary at this point since I
keep virtually nothing on the 780 and is only a backup
computer but I had run this just a day or so ago so why
is it saying 297?

Robert




ahhh I know why it did that,.. I was still on the Admin Account
which I don't go to all that much.

Robert
  #293  
Old August 3rd 19, 09:12 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Robert in CA
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 785
Default Win7 support:

On Saturday, August 3, 2019 at 8:18:23 AM UTC-7, Robert in CA wrote:
On Saturday, August 3, 2019 at 8:02:00 AM UTC-7, Paul wrote:
Robert in CA wrote:
On Saturday, August 3, 2019 at 1:20:29 AM UTC-7, Paul wrote:
Robert in CA wrote:

So do I remove the F1 problem?

Robert
A "Press F1" error in this case is triggered
by enabling a SATA port and not having a SATA
drive present. That's probably a good thing when
RAID disks are involved, and a dumb idea if
RAID is disabled or not desired.

You could disable SATA ports when you're not using
them. That's perhaps one way to fix the "Press F1" error.

My motherboards here, have a

"Stop on" [No Error] == other values might be
[All errors]
[Floppy error]
[Whatever error]

option, that when an error occurs, the F1
prompt does *not* occur. But your Dell BIOS is
pretty clever and will undoubtedly do these
things a different way, right ?

Paul

This is why I removed the data cable and
un-ticked the WIN10 HD but you advised not
to do that. So should I put the bad Win7
and Win10 back and see if we can resolve
the problems because I don't want to mess
this HD up.

How about this.. remove the present HD and
replace with the Win 10 and see if I can get
it to load in Safe Mode.

Then try install the bad HD and see if I can
do a restore but I have a question on that.
I obviously needed a rescue disk to clone the
780 backup HD but I don't have a 780 rescue CD
so my question is this.

1. can I use the same rescue CD on the 8500 and 780?
2. the 780 CD drive isn't responding so should I redo
the boot order so all removable media is on top eg.

USB
Floppy drives
card readers
hard drive
hard drive

Then try and restore the bad drive?

Robert


Restoring CD/DVD drive operation is pretty important.

I would make sure the enabled SATA cables include the
CD optical drive port as well.

There is one screen in your BIOS, which shows device
identifications when the BIOS comes up. By checking
that screen, you can tell whether the SATA port
is enabled.

If the SATA connectors on the motherboard had good
silk screen labels on them, this would take the
mystery out of figuring out which port is running
the optical drive.

And it doesn't matter if you hit an F1 during this
"adjustment phase". In principle, you should be
able to switch on all the SATA ports, then use the
BIOS "identification" screen to verify which ports
got a response. Then, if you want, untick the ports
that don't have a drive connected.

I have had a common Macrium Reflect CD run two
computers (allow bootup), but that's not a certainty,
more likely just an accident. There could be
driver differences between versions of Macrium
discs, as to what is included, and I don't want
to guess at that.

I believe the defaults for the Optiplex 780, are
SATA1 and SATA2 enabled, and some RAID mode. SATA3
and SATA4 turned off (as when shipped, the 780
would have a disk drive on SATA1 and an optical
drive on SATA2, using up the ports which are
switched on).

On my computers here, they don't manage their SATA ports
that way. The enable/disable is independent of any F1 error.
An enabled port with no drive connected, causes not
a ripple in the BIOS state. It does not care. It
detects whatever drives it can find, compares them
to the boot menu, and away it goes. If I use the
popup boot key, I can select anything which has been
(dynamically) detected.

In principle, with two hard drives, you could

Original Win7 drive --- restore onto this one
Drive with the backup --- boot this one

Then remove the backup drive and install the Win10 drive

Win7 drive
Win10 drive

And have no CD in the picture at all at that point.
If the machine insists that SATA1 enabled and SATA2 enabled
is all that's going to work, that would be a start.

*******

The alternative is to do:

Original Win7 drive --+
Optical drive connected (boot Macrium CD) |
|
USB enclosure contains backup MRIMG ---------+

When you want the Win7 setup, use Win7 disk and CD drive:

Win7 drive
Optical drive

When you want the Win10 setup, use Win10 disk and CD drive:

Win10 drive
Optical drive

But personally, I would work on my BIOS skill set,
and discover what combination of ports makes three
things work. Because ultimately, you are the boss,
not the computer, and you really want it to do this.

Win7 drive SATA1
Win10 drive SATA2
Optical drive port SATA3

At this point, I'm trying not to meddle with the
state of the OSes themselves. Because it gets
too complicated, mixing OS-specific recipes with
your SATA-activity problem. If the OSes handled
driver issues more gracefully, I would be more
aggressive in my approach. In Windows 10, you
can get it to "consider" changing drivers, if you
boot to Safe Mode, then boot in regular mode.
It can pick up a hardware change if you do it
that way. But Safe Mode doesn't happen by pressing
F8 in Windows 10, *unless* you happen to add the
black boot screen by using BCDEDIT. Exactly why Microsoft
considers this a feature, is a mystery to me. Included
in that mystery, is how the black boot screen with
the F8 option *disappears* if you're multibooting.

HTH,
Paul


I did as you describe when I had the Win 10 HD and ticked
everything and unchecked SATA 3 and 4 then re-ticked them.

I agree about getting the BIOS working first.

I didn't realize that Win10 doesn't have the F8 option.

So I will concentrate on getting everything working on the
780 Win 7 first. Then we can move on.



Robert



As you say we can live with the F1
Should I go back and un-tick these?

I think at this point I would like to try restoring the
bad HD with WIn7 as you suggest and if all goes well then
remove the good Win7 HD and install Win10 again with the
restored Win 7HD and go from there.

On Saturday, August 3, 2019 at 8:18:23 AM UTC-7, Robert in CA wrote:
On Saturday, August 3, 2019 at 8:02:00 AM UTC-7, Paul wrote:
Robert in CA wrote:
On Saturday, August 3, 2019 at 1:20:29 AM UTC-7, Paul wrote:
Robert in CA wrote:

So do I remove the F1 problem?

Robert
A "Press F1" error in this case is triggered
by enabling a SATA port and not having a SATA
drive present. That's probably a good thing when
RAID disks are involved, and a dumb idea if
RAID is disabled or not desired.

You could disable SATA ports when you're not using
them. That's perhaps one way to fix the "Press F1" error.

My motherboards here, have a

"Stop on" [No Error] == other values might be
[All errors]
[Floppy error]
[Whatever error]

option, that when an error occurs, the F1
prompt does *not* occur. But your Dell BIOS is
pretty clever and will undoubtedly do these
things a different way, right ?

Paul

This is why I removed the data cable and
un-ticked the WIN10 HD but you advised not
to do that. So should I put the bad Win7
and Win10 back and see if we can resolve
the problems because I don't want to mess
this HD up.

How about this.. remove the present HD and
replace with the Win 10 and see if I can get
it to load in Safe Mode.

Then try install the bad HD and see if I can
do a restore but I have a question on that.
I obviously needed a rescue disk to clone the
780 backup HD but I don't have a 780 rescue CD
so my question is this.

1. can I use the same rescue CD on the 8500 and 780?
2. the 780 CD drive isn't responding so should I redo
the boot order so all removable media is on top eg.

USB
Floppy drives
card readers
hard drive
hard drive

Then try and restore the bad drive?

Robert


Restoring CD/DVD drive operation is pretty important.

I would make sure the enabled SATA cables include the
CD optical drive port as well.

There is one screen in your BIOS, which shows device
identifications when the BIOS comes up. By checking
that screen, you can tell whether the SATA port
is enabled.

If the SATA connectors on the motherboard had good
silk screen labels on them, this would take the
mystery out of figuring out which port is running
the optical drive.

And it doesn't matter if you hit an F1 during this
"adjustment phase". In principle, you should be
able to switch on all the SATA ports, then use the
BIOS "identification" screen to verify which ports
got a response. Then, if you want, untick the ports
that don't have a drive connected.

I have had a common Macrium Reflect CD run two
computers (allow bootup), but that's not a certainty,
more likely just an accident. There could be
driver differences between versions of Macrium
discs, as to what is included, and I don't want
to guess at that.

I believe the defaults for the Optiplex 780, are
SATA1 and SATA2 enabled, and some RAID mode. SATA3
and SATA4 turned off (as when shipped, the 780
would have a disk drive on SATA1 and an optical
drive on SATA2, using up the ports which are
switched on).

On my computers here, they don't manage their SATA ports
that way. The enable/disable is independent of any F1 error.
An enabled port with no drive connected, causes not
a ripple in the BIOS state. It does not care. It
detects whatever drives it can find, compares them
to the boot menu, and away it goes. If I use the
popup boot key, I can select anything which has been
(dynamically) detected.

In principle, with two hard drives, you could

Original Win7 drive --- restore onto this one
Drive with the backup --- boot this one

Then remove the backup drive and install the Win10 drive

Win7 drive
Win10 drive

And have no CD in the picture at all at that point.
If the machine insists that SATA1 enabled and SATA2 enabled
is all that's going to work, that would be a start.

*******

The alternative is to do:

Original Win7 drive --+
Optical drive connected (boot Macrium CD) |
|
USB enclosure contains backup MRIMG ---------+

When you want the Win7 setup, use Win7 disk and CD drive:

Win7 drive
Optical drive

When you want the Win10 setup, use Win10 disk and CD drive:

Win10 drive
Optical drive

But personally, I would work on my BIOS skill set,
and discover what combination of ports makes three
things work. Because ultimately, you are the boss,
not the computer, and you really want it to do this.

Win7 drive SATA1
Win10 drive SATA2
Optical drive port SATA3

At this point, I'm trying not to meddle with the
state of the OSes themselves. Because it gets
too complicated, mixing OS-specific recipes with
your SATA-activity problem. If the OSes handled
driver issues more gracefully, I would be more
aggressive in my approach. In Windows 10, you
can get it to "consider" changing drivers, if you
boot to Safe Mode, then boot in regular mode.
It can pick up a hardware change if you do it
that way. But Safe Mode doesn't happen by pressing
F8 in Windows 10, *unless* you happen to add the
black boot screen by using BCDEDIT. Exactly why Microsoft
considers this a feature, is a mystery to me. Included
in that mystery, is how the black boot screen with
the F8 option *disappears* if you're multibooting.

HTH,
Paul


I did as you describe when I had the Win 10 HD and ticked
everything and unchecked SATA 3 and 4 then re-ticked them.

I agree about getting the BIOS working first.

I didn't realize that Win10 doesn't have the F8 option.

So I will concentrate on getting everything working on the
780 Win 7 first. Then we can move on.



Robert




Should I go back and un-tick SATA 3 and 4?


It seems everything is working correctly on the 780 with
the exception of the F1 but as you say we can live with
the F1 during this adjustment phase.

I think at this point I would like to try restoring the
bad HD with WIn7 as you suggest and if all goes well then
remove the good Win7 HD and install Win10 again with the
restored Win 7HD and go from there.

What do you think?


Robert
  #294  
Old August 3rd 19, 09:16 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Robert in CA
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 785
Default Win7 support:

On Saturday, August 3, 2019 at 8:02:00 AM UTC-7, Paul wrote:
Robert in CA wrote:
On Saturday, August 3, 2019 at 1:20:29 AM UTC-7, Paul wrote:
Robert in CA wrote:

So do I remove the F1 problem?

Robert
A "Press F1" error in this case is triggered
by enabling a SATA port and not having a SATA
drive present. That's probably a good thing when
RAID disks are involved, and a dumb idea if
RAID is disabled or not desired.

You could disable SATA ports when you're not using
them. That's perhaps one way to fix the "Press F1" error.

My motherboards here, have a

"Stop on" [No Error] == other values might be
[All errors]
[Floppy error]
[Whatever error]

option, that when an error occurs, the F1
prompt does *not* occur. But your Dell BIOS is
pretty clever and will undoubtedly do these
things a different way, right ?

Paul


This is why I removed the data cable and
un-ticked the WIN10 HD but you advised not
to do that. So should I put the bad Win7
and Win10 back and see if we can resolve
the problems because I don't want to mess
this HD up.

How about this.. remove the present HD and
replace with the Win 10 and see if I can get
it to load in Safe Mode.

Then try install the bad HD and see if I can
do a restore but I have a question on that.
I obviously needed a rescue disk to clone the
780 backup HD but I don't have a 780 rescue CD
so my question is this.

1. can I use the same rescue CD on the 8500 and 780?
2. the 780 CD drive isn't responding so should I redo
the boot order so all removable media is on top eg.

USB
Floppy drives
card readers
hard drive
hard drive

Then try and restore the bad drive?

Robert


Restoring CD/DVD drive operation is pretty important.

I would make sure the enabled SATA cables include the
CD optical drive port as well.

There is one screen in your BIOS, which shows device
identifications when the BIOS comes up. By checking
that screen, you can tell whether the SATA port
is enabled.

If the SATA connectors on the motherboard had good
silk screen labels on them, this would take the
mystery out of figuring out which port is running
the optical drive.

And it doesn't matter if you hit an F1 during this
"adjustment phase". In principle, you should be
able to switch on all the SATA ports, then use the
BIOS "identification" screen to verify which ports
got a response. Then, if you want, untick the ports
that don't have a drive connected.

I have had a common Macrium Reflect CD run two
computers (allow bootup), but that's not a certainty,
more likely just an accident. There could be
driver differences between versions of Macrium
discs, as to what is included, and I don't want
to guess at that.

I believe the defaults for the Optiplex 780, are
SATA1 and SATA2 enabled, and some RAID mode. SATA3
and SATA4 turned off (as when shipped, the 780
would have a disk drive on SATA1 and an optical
drive on SATA2, using up the ports which are
switched on).

On my computers here, they don't manage their SATA ports
that way. The enable/disable is independent of any F1 error.
An enabled port with no drive connected, causes not
a ripple in the BIOS state. It does not care. It
detects whatever drives it can find, compares them
to the boot menu, and away it goes. If I use the
popup boot key, I can select anything which has been
(dynamically) detected.

In principle, with two hard drives, you could

Original Win7 drive --- restore onto this one
Drive with the backup --- boot this one

Then remove the backup drive and install the Win10 drive

Win7 drive
Win10 drive

And have no CD in the picture at all at that point.
If the machine insists that SATA1 enabled and SATA2 enabled
is all that's going to work, that would be a start.

*******

The alternative is to do:

Original Win7 drive --+
Optical drive connected (boot Macrium CD) |
|
USB enclosure contains backup MRIMG ---------+

When you want the Win7 setup, use Win7 disk and CD drive:

Win7 drive
Optical drive

When you want the Win10 setup, use Win10 disk and CD drive:

Win10 drive
Optical drive

But personally, I would work on my BIOS skill set,
and discover what combination of ports makes three
things work. Because ultimately, you are the boss,
not the computer, and you really want it to do this.

Win7 drive SATA1
Win10 drive SATA2
Optical drive port SATA3

At this point, I'm trying not to meddle with the
state of the OSes themselves. Because it gets
too complicated, mixing OS-specific recipes with
your SATA-activity problem. If the OSes handled
driver issues more gracefully, I would be more
aggressive in my approach. In Windows 10, you
can get it to "consider" changing drivers, if you
boot to Safe Mode, then boot in regular mode.
It can pick up a hardware change if you do it
that way. But Safe Mode doesn't happen by pressing
F8 in Windows 10, *unless* you happen to add the
black boot screen by using BCDEDIT. Exactly why Microsoft
considers this a feature, is a mystery to me. Included
in that mystery, is how the black boot screen with
the F8 option *disappears* if you're multibooting.

HTH,
Paul




On Saturday, August 3, 2019 at 8:02:00 AM UTC-7, Paul wrote:
Robert in CA wrote:
On Saturday, August 3, 2019 at 1:20:29 AM UTC-7, Paul wrote:
Robert in CA wrote:

So do I remove the F1 problem?

Robert
A "Press F1" error in this case is triggered
by enabling a SATA port and not having a SATA
drive present. That's probably a good thing when
RAID disks are involved, and a dumb idea if
RAID is disabled or not desired.

You could disable SATA ports when you're not using
them. That's perhaps one way to fix the "Press F1" error.

My motherboards here, have a

"Stop on" [No Error] == other values might be
[All errors]
[Floppy error]
[Whatever error]

option, that when an error occurs, the F1
prompt does *not* occur. But your Dell BIOS is
pretty clever and will undoubtedly do these
things a different way, right ?

Paul


This is why I removed the data cable and
un-ticked the WIN10 HD but you advised not
to do that. So should I put the bad Win7
and Win10 back and see if we can resolve
the problems because I don't want to mess
this HD up.

How about this.. remove the present HD and
replace with the Win 10 and see if I can get
it to load in Safe Mode.

Then try install the bad HD and see if I can
do a restore but I have a question on that.
I obviously needed a rescue disk to clone the
780 backup HD but I don't have a 780 rescue CD
so my question is this.

1. can I use the same rescue CD on the 8500 and 780?
2. the 780 CD drive isn't responding so should I redo
the boot order so all removable media is on top eg.

USB
Floppy drives
card readers
hard drive
hard drive

Then try and restore the bad drive?

Robert


Restoring CD/DVD drive operation is pretty important.

I would make sure the enabled SATA cables include the
CD optical drive port as well.

There is one screen in your BIOS, which shows device
identifications when the BIOS comes up. By checking
that screen, you can tell whether the SATA port
is enabled.

If the SATA connectors on the motherboard had good
silk screen labels on them, this would take the
mystery out of figuring out which port is running
the optical drive.

And it doesn't matter if you hit an F1 during this
"adjustment phase". In principle, you should be
able to switch on all the SATA ports, then use the
BIOS "identification" screen to verify which ports
got a response. Then, if you want, untick the ports
that don't have a drive connected.

I have had a common Macrium Reflect CD run two
computers (allow bootup), but that's not a certainty,
more likely just an accident. There could be
driver differences between versions of Macrium
discs, as to what is included, and I don't want
to guess at that.

I believe the defaults for the Optiplex 780, are
SATA1 and SATA2 enabled, and some RAID mode. SATA3
and SATA4 turned off (as when shipped, the 780
would have a disk drive on SATA1 and an optical
drive on SATA2, using up the ports which are
switched on).

On my computers here, they don't manage their SATA ports
that way. The enable/disable is independent of any F1 error.
An enabled port with no drive connected, causes not
a ripple in the BIOS state. It does not care. It
detects whatever drives it can find, compares them
to the boot menu, and away it goes. If I use the
popup boot key, I can select anything which has been
(dynamically) detected.

In principle, with two hard drives, you could

Original Win7 drive --- restore onto this one
Drive with the backup --- boot this one

Then remove the backup drive and install the Win10 drive

Win7 drive
Win10 drive

And have no CD in the picture at all at that point.
If the machine insists that SATA1 enabled and SATA2 enabled
is all that's going to work, that would be a start.

*******

The alternative is to do:

Original Win7 drive --+
Optical drive connected (boot Macrium CD) |
|
USB enclosure contains backup MRIMG ---------+

When you want the Win7 setup, use Win7 disk and CD drive:

Win7 drive
Optical drive

When you want the Win10 setup, use Win10 disk and CD drive:

Win10 drive
Optical drive

But personally, I would work on my BIOS skill set,
and discover what combination of ports makes three
things work. Because ultimately, you are the boss,
not the computer, and you really want it to do this.

Win7 drive SATA1
Win10 drive SATA2
Optical drive port SATA3

At this point, I'm trying not to meddle with the
state of the OSes themselves. Because it gets
too complicated, mixing OS-specific recipes with
your SATA-activity problem. If the OSes handled
driver issues more gracefully, I would be more
aggressive in my approach. In Windows 10, you
can get it to "consider" changing drivers, if you
boot to Safe Mode, then boot in regular mode.
It can pick up a hardware change if you do it
that way. But Safe Mode doesn't happen by pressing
F8 in Windows 10, *unless* you happen to add the
black boot screen by using BCDEDIT. Exactly why Microsoft
considers this a feature, is a mystery to me. Included
in that mystery, is how the black boot screen with
the F8 option *disappears* if you're multibooting.

HTH,
Paul


Should I go back and un-tick SATA 3 and 4?

It seems everything is working correctly on the 780 with
the exception of the F1 but as you say we can live with
the F1 during this adjustment phase.

I think at this point I would like to try restoring the
bad HD with WIn7 as you suggest and if all goes well then
remove the good Win7 HD and install Win10 again with the
restored Win 7HD and go from there.

What do you think?


Robert
  #295  
Old August 3rd 19, 10:44 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Paul[_32_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 11,873
Default Win7 support:

Robert in CA wrote:

Should I go back and un-tick SATA 3 and 4?


It seems everything is working correctly on the 780 with
the exception of the F1 but as you say we can live with
the F1 during this adjustment phase.

I think at this point I would like to try restoring the
bad HD with WIn7 as you suggest and if all goes well then
remove the good Win7 HD and install Win10 again with the
restored Win 7HD and go from there.

What do you think?


Robert


You know the conditions in front of you, better than
I do.

As long as there's no chance of anything getting
broken, it's a computer, it's meant for experiments :-)

If you want to reinstall something, you can. You have
a good backup, and can go back to Square One if things
are not working out.

*******

In principle, you could keep "stuff that doesn't matter",
connected to the SATA ports to keep them "busy". That
would be one way to stop the F1...

For example, I can find an SSD for $18. And this could keep
an electrical signal on a SATA data port. You'd need a data cable
plus some sort of power cabling. The chassis of the SSD (the metal
ones) is grounded, so you can rest them on top of other grounded
items for mechanical support. I have been laying the ones I own
on the bottom of the computer case (making sure they don't get
in the way when closing the door and so on). I also rest SSDs
on top of hard drives (as the hard drive body is grounded too).

https://www.newegg.com/team-group-gx...82E16820331317

You don't have to do that, and it's just an example of
how to keep pesky SATA ports occupied. The drive doesn't even
have to be formatted particularly. It can just sit there.

Paul
  #296  
Old August 3rd 19, 11:58 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
J. P. Gilliver (John)[_7_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 603
Default Win7 support:

In message , Paul
writes:
[]
I believe the defaults for the Optiplex 780, are
SATA1 and SATA2 enabled, and some RAID mode. SATA3
and SATA4 turned off (as when shipped, the 780
would have a disk drive on SATA1 and an optical
drive on SATA2, using up the ports which are
switched on).

[]
Why would it default to some RAID mode, if it's only expecting one HD?
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Find out what works. Then do it. That's my system. I'm always surprised it
isn't more popular. - Scott Adams, 2015
  #297  
Old August 4th 19, 12:13 AM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Paul[_32_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 11,873
Default Win7 support:

J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
In message , Paul
writes:
[]
I believe the defaults for the Optiplex 780, are
SATA1 and SATA2 enabled, and some RAID mode. SATA3
and SATA4 turned off (as when shipped, the 780
would have a disk drive on SATA1 and an optical
drive on SATA2, using up the ports which are
switched on).

[]
Why would it default to some RAID mode, if it's only expecting one HD?


The design is obnoxious.

Someone in a Dell forum was basically asking the same thing.
What were they thinking ?

Now, I know from a "featuritis" point of view, they
love to set up disks so "RAID migration" is possible.
NVidia made RAID Migration a major feature in their
stuff.

What these companies just don't get, is how useless
RAID is. It's like a hood ornament on a car - adds
air resistance, doesn't do anything. A backup is just
as good as a RAID plus backup system, mainly because
the RAID is dangerous and not understood by most owners,
and there are bound to be surprises and data loss
"before they get it".

That's what I was finding with people working through
RAID disasters - they hadn't spent the time testing it.

So why it's a standard feature, is a genuine mystery.
It should be an option, that only knowledgeable people can
find. Then, if you don't know what RAID is, chances
are you'll never suffer as a result of the existence
of a RAID setting.

Paul
  #298  
Old August 4th 19, 12:34 AM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Robert in CA
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 785
Default Win7 support:

On Saturday, August 3, 2019 at 2:44:10 PM UTC-7, Paul wrote:
Robert in CA wrote:

Should I go back and un-tick SATA 3 and 4?


It seems everything is working correctly on the 780 with
the exception of the F1 but as you say we can live with
the F1 during this adjustment phase.

I think at this point I would like to try restoring the
bad HD with WIn7 as you suggest and if all goes well then
remove the good Win7 HD and install Win10 again with the
restored Win 7HD and go from there.

What do you think?


Robert


You know the conditions in front of you, better than
I do.

As long as there's no chance of anything getting
broken, it's a computer, it's meant for experiments :-)

If you want to reinstall something, you can. You have
a good backup, and can go back to Square One if things
are not working out.

*******

In principle, you could keep "stuff that doesn't matter",
connected to the SATA ports to keep them "busy". That
would be one way to stop the F1...

For example, I can find an SSD for $18. And this could keep
an electrical signal on a SATA data port. You'd need a data cable
plus some sort of power cabling. The chassis of the SSD (the metal
ones) is grounded, so you can rest them on top of other grounded
items for mechanical support. I have been laying the ones I own
on the bottom of the computer case (making sure they don't get
in the way when closing the door and so on). I also rest SSDs
on top of hard drives (as the hard drive body is grounded too).

https://www.newegg.com/team-group-gx...82E16820331317

You don't have to do that, and it's just an example of
how to keep pesky SATA ports occupied. The drive doesn't even
have to be formatted particularly. It can just sit there.

Paul




On Saturday, August 3, 2019 at 2:44:10 PM UTC-7, Paul wrote:
Robert in CA wrote:

Should I go back and un-tick SATA 3 and 4?


It seems everything is working correctly on the 780 with
the exception of the F1 but as you say we can live with
the F1 during this adjustment phase.

I think at this point I would like to try restoring the
bad HD with WIn7 as you suggest and if all goes well then
remove the good Win7 HD and install Win10 again with the
restored Win 7HD and go from there.

What do you think?


Robert


You know the conditions in front of you, better than
I do.

As long as there's no chance of anything getting
broken, it's a computer, it's meant for experiments :-)

If you want to reinstall something, you can. You have
a good backup, and can go back to Square One if things
are not working out.

*******

In principle, you could keep "stuff that doesn't matter",
connected to the SATA ports to keep them "busy". That
would be one way to stop the F1...

For example, I can find an SSD for $18. And this could keep
an electrical signal on a SATA data port. You'd need a data cable
plus some sort of power cabling. The chassis of the SSD (the metal
ones) is grounded, so you can rest them on top of other grounded
items for mechanical support. I have been laying the ones I own
on the bottom of the computer case (making sure they don't get
in the way when closing the door and so on). I also rest SSDs
on top of hard drives (as the hard drive body is grounded too).

https://www.newegg.com/team-group-gx...82E16820331317

You don't have to do that, and it's just an example of
how to keep pesky SATA ports occupied. The drive doesn't even
have to be formatted particularly. It can just sit there.

Paul




Your suggesting I buy SSD to eliminate
the F1 problem? Is there no other way?
which mean I have to buy more cables and
(2) SSD's.

I removed the good HD(Win7) and put in
the bad HD(Win7) tried to do a restore
btw the label I put on the external HD
with the Mrimgs didn't show up in Macrium
although for some reason it's clearly
labeled from the destination.

I think I messed up royally,.. I should
of selected build rescue media and now it
wont boot into Windows at all. So what can
I do to recover or is this HD toast?

https://postimg.cc/2V9VQPzY

https://postimg.cc/ZW90VVRd

https://postimg.cc/FdvRFvxy

https://postimg.cc/23z6Pzym

https://postimg.cc/qNCM8qbc

https://postimg.cc/jwRx0Xsv

https://postimg.cc/5XvbXGyn

https://postimg.cc/R3B9KRn9

https://postimg.cc/5YPVcWKN

https://postimg.cc/8fjVNXxd


Robert


  #299  
Old August 4th 19, 12:38 AM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Robert in CA
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 785
Default Win7 support:



I'm not exactly understanding ,.... should I tick or
untick the SATA 3, 4 now?

Of course its a mute point since I can't even login
to Win 7 on the 780.

Robert
  #300  
Old August 4th 19, 05:14 AM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Paul[_32_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 11,873
Default Win7 support:

Robert in CA wrote:

I'm not exactly understanding ,.... should I tick or
untick the SATA 3, 4 now?

Of course its a mute point since I can't even login
to Win 7 on the 780.

Robert


From a "Press F1" point of view, you should enable
the SATA ports you need.

*******

The 840 page spec for your Southbridge, shows four options.

Consumer Family
* Intel 82801JIB ICH10 Consumer Base (ICH10)
* Intel 82801JIR ICH10 RAID (ICH10R)
Corporate Family
* Intel 82801JD ICH10 Corporate Base (ICH10D)
* Intel 82801JDO ICH10 Digital Office (ICH10DO) === Your Southbridge

The Hardware identifiers are covered in a "Spec Update"
document. The main spec does not typically list them.

319973__ICH10R.pdf
319974__ICH10R_specupd.pdf === hardware identifier numbers tell us
the mode.

I looked up this info back in 2012 or so. This is an
archived USENET post.

http://al.howardknight.net/msgid.cgi...nt-email.me%3E

When your BIOS makes choices for the operating modes
of the hardware, something like "lspci" in Linux
can dump the numbers and show what mode the Southbridge
is in, on the SATA ports. The problem in Windows is,
the system might not boot, if the settings are too
"abnormal". If it could boot, I might use Lavalys Everest
or similar in Windows. Generally, it's not a problem
figuring out a way to get Linux to boot (USB works,
whereas Windows, that's a lot harder to arrange).

Feature Corporate
ICH10 Digital Office === yours, on the 780
--------------------
AHCI Yes
RAID0/1/5/10 Yes

Corporate SKUs...

D31:F21 SATA 3A00h 02h Non-AHCI and Non-RAID Mode (Ports 0,1,2 and 3)
3A02h 02h AHCI Mode (Ports 0-5)
3A05h 02h RAID 0/1/5/10 Mode
D31:F51 SATA 3A06h 02h Non-AHCI and Non-RAID Mode (Ports 4 and 5)

Modes which apply to all six ports, show up
as D31:F21, such as

3A02h 02h AHCI Mode (Ports 0-5)
3A05h 02h RAID 0/1/5/10 Mode

The hardware is actually split into two blocks for
compatible mode. Ports 0..3 are one group (Win98
compatible in a sense). Port 4..5 are a second group.

D31:F21 SATA 3A00h 02h Non-AHCI and Non-RAID Mode (Ports 0,1,2 and 3)
D31:F51 SATA 3A06h 02h Non-AHCI and Non-RAID Mode (Ports 4 and 5)

There is usually a class code associated with them as
well (CC01, CC03 or whatever).

*******

The reason for me telling you this, is it is possible
to study how the BIOS controls interact, and what
happens to the chipset setup when using various options.

In this case, it's not the modes themselves which are
mysterious. It's the usage of words like "Auto" in the BIOS
that are a mystery. Normally when you select a mode,
it should never matter what the ports themselves
are doing (whether hardware is connected or not,
should not matter, the hardware just doesn't care
if you don't use it). Your particular BIOS seems
to have a feature like

1) Apply a setting.
2) Sniff.
3) If it smells funny, use a second settings choice.

And normally BIOS don't go to that much trouble.
Normally, most computers, it's

1) Apply a setting.
Good luck, buddy.

Then if it doesn't boot, it's all your fault.

So if I was there in the room, I could probably
attempt to try the various BIOS settings and
"read out" some mode info. The purpose of
doing that extra work, is to figure out which
tick boxes in the RAID page, are "safe" to use
without tipping over one of the hard drives.

*******

Here is an example of a customer feeling around in
the dark. The same way I'm feeling around in the dark.

https://www.dell.com/community/Deskt...s/td-p/4609696

Raid Autodetect ACHI

Intel ICH10 Family 6 port AHCI - 3A02, version 7.0.0.1013

So what the Autodetect did in that case, is selected
3A02 instead of 3A05 from the above table. Presumably
if it had "sniffed" drives set up as RAID, it would
have changed the device identifier to 3A05.

The unfortunate part of this, is for both Win7 and Win10,
switching back and forth between 3A02 and 3A05 has consequences.

There are two drivers.

Windows itself has MSAHCI (would work with 3A02). There
is also IASTORV (IASTOR for Vista, a RAID driver).

There is the Intel RST driver for RAID.

There is the floppy txtsetup.oem driver with
AHCI and RAID in the same folder (should make
it easy to transition from one to the other).
I think that one is IASTOR.

And this means, when you want to "transition" an
OS from 3A02 to 3A05...

!) Need to know the driver currently being used.
2) Need to learn how driver rearm works in the OS.
Win7 has some registry work.
Win10, booting to Safe Mode, followed by booting
in Regular Mode, should pick up the required driver
automatically.

I'm trying to give you some idea what kind of work an
IT guy has to do, to deal with the situation you're in
which is to namely:

1) Put the machine in a "mode" that is "most useful".
2) Modify *all* drives that fit into the machine normally,
so they work with the "chosen" setting.

For mere mortals, this is a tall order, and more than
a mornings work.

And I've fallen into that trap before, of selecting
the wrong mode when I first got a computer, and then
later realizing what a mess I had to clean up. But at
least I don't use RAID :-/ I have done experiments
with RAID mode, but these experiments only last
a couple days, followed by a cleaning cycle.
(You must *properly* clean RAID drives after use.
The metadata must be removed, while plugged into
a non-RAID port.)

This is the thinking on Windows 7. Windows 8 has
a second set of registry things that need editing.
On Windows 8, the complexity suggests there is a
GPEDIT setting to control this.

Some keywords: pciide, msahci, iaStorV, iaStor, CurrentControlSet, (driver rearm)

http://www.overclockers.com/forums/s...d.php?t=698531

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\servic es\pciide
Start DWORD 3 == 0 # allows it to check for IDE mode

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\servic es\msahci
Start DWORD 3 == 0 # allows it to check for AHCI mode (Microsoft driver)

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\servic es\iaStorV
Start DWORD 3 == 0 # allows it to check for IAStor Vista (RAID)

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\servic es\iaStor
Start DWORD 3 == 0 # allows it to check for Intel version (user installed)

The best part of those, is you can turn all of them on,
and at least one of them will "take" at boot time. In
other words, even if you're a clumsy oaf, and screw up
the BIOS, if you do that to the OS first, there won't
be a consequence.

The method would be:

1) Use Regedit to set those.
2) Exit Regedit.
3) Shut down computer.
4) Start computer, enter BIOS.
5) Set storage mode to "new choice", say Autodetect AHCI
6) Windows 7 boots, and is now using the MSAHCI driver.

Whereas on Windows 10, you set it up to boot in Safe Mode.
Safe mode is available by pressing F8 in this screen.

https://i.postimg.cc/0NVZWSnj/f8-in-boot-menu.gif

As administrator, to get that black screen, you can do
it offline (if the OS won't run):

dir /AH C:\boot\BCD # verify it is there, it could be in system reserved

bcdedit /store C:\boot\BCD /set {bootmgr} displaybootmenu True

Whereas if Windows 10 was running at the time, it might be:

bcdedit /set {bootmgr} displaybootmenu True

Then on the next Win10 reboot, verify the black screen
appears for 30 seconds.

Paul
 




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