Win7 support:

Hopefully a look at the settings we give you

some idea of whats going on. I believe it does
show the Bios version (V15) I believe as well
as other information.

Robert

This is when I hit F8 and then selected
the Safe Mode with Networking.

https://postimg.cc/ct1kYPdJ

https://postimg.cc/67sHz8Bg

https://postimg.cc/bsWLNZSr

https://postimg.cc/47WQCyTJ

https://postimg.cc/ykZcjvW6

https://postimg.cc/Vdn0nvHd

https://postimg.cc/0MhrJ1YY

https://postimg.cc/cgtLWkpr

https://postimg.cc/ctN0Sx7b

Robert

On Sat, 10 Aug 2019 07:52:46 -0700 (PDT), Robert in CA
wrote:



I really don't know what I'm looking for,,
I hit F2 and it seems the same as F12 but
maybe you can see something in the settings
that needs to be changed?

I tried to enable Sata02 but when I did I
had to click F1 again. So I set to default
which at first showed all drives check but
I see its changed.

Also I couldn't find a show desktop icon and
looked it up and it seems I have to click some
invisible button on the edge of the taskbar?
Is that right?

https://postimg.cc/jnHQXMkW

https://postimg.cc/QVQpvn0C

........

Those are all BIOS screens. NOT Dell screens.
He

https://www.dell.com/community/Lapto...B/td-p/5145510
[]'s
--
Don't be evil - Google 2004
We have a new policy - Google 2012

Shadow wrote:
On Fri, 09 Aug 2019 12:20:26 -0400, Paul
wrote:

Robert in CA wrote:
I created the Rescue CD on the Patriot:

https://postimg.cc/fJjj8YkF

but it still doesn't engage. Same as before.

I tried downloading Kapersky and
then create a bootable DVD-R.

https://postimg.cc/BjHY5Bvk

https://postimg.cc/hzP2BF0R

Robert
For the USB to work, it might need to be above
the other items in the boot order.

Floppy \
CD \____ Removable media go first
USB /

Disk1 \____ Fixed media go second
Disk2 /

If "RAID ON" is not working, switch
to the autodetect item with AHCI in
the text.

Paul

My Dell (laptop) has a button you press at startup, right
after the first screen. I think it's F8 but it might be F11 or even
F12 that shows all the BOOTABLE media detected, and allows you to
choose one with arrow-up or down.
BIOS boot-order settings are ignored.
No idea if this is common to all Dells.
If the USB/DVD is not showing, the OP did something wrong with
the ISO.
[]'s

I'd take the Patriot with the Macrium WinPE setup
on it, and run it on the 8500. When you quit the
Macrium session on the USB stick, the machine
can be allowed to reboot into the regular OS.
From the regular OS, you can shutdown.

I think, if you open a Command Prompt window
in the Macrium USB key boot session, you can issue
a shutdown command there.

Running the stick on the 8500, might prove the
Patriot contains a bootable system.

*******

At CERN, they use "RAID Autodetect / AHCI" before installing their OS :-)

https://espace.cern.ch/winservices-h...ptiplex780.htm

This is the second reference I've found, to what IT
people do to the machine when it arrives. They
don't like the "RAID ON" option.

Paul

In message ,
Robert in CA writes:
[]
Also I couldn't find a show desktop icon and
looked it up and it seems I have to click some
invisible button on the edge of the taskbar?
Is that right?
[]
It isn't invisible; it's a vertical strip to the right of the clock
(assuming you have the taskbar in its default position).

It isn't however labelled as to what it does unless you hover over it:
see
https://www.maketecheasier.com/asset...ystem-tray.gif
(look where the mouse cursor is in that image).

As far as I can see, it does the same as the Win+D key combination (a
toggle). Win+D - desktop; Win+M - minimise all. The first use of either
does the same; however, Win+M isn't reversible, you have to manually
re-open each window. If you're mouse-minded, the button is probably
easier; if keyboard-minded, Win-D is probably the one to use. (Win-M is
probably one of the few things kept for historical reasons.)
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

A good pun is its own reword.

Paul asked to look into the BIOS and I had to look
up how to get to it. It says its usually F2 and that's
what I did. As I stated it looks the same as F12 to me.
Afterwards I did a F8 to see what that does.

Robert

I did not see(show desktop) that present on Win10
because that's exactly where Win7Pro has it and I
looked for it.I'll check again.

Thanks,
Robert

I followed your instructions but the 780 wouldn't boot
and looked at the repair option. So I reset the changes
and it boots again although still not genuine. The first
pics are the setting before the changes.

I tried to use the Patriot to load on the 8500
but it also didn't engage? It see's the drive
but for some reason it doesn't work? Last pic
shows the files.

https://postimg.cc/D8qZz1sj

https://postimg.cc/Bj7GZvh7

https://postimg.cc/xN3WwjJR

https://postimg.cc/KKLF92N9

https://postimg.cc/G9brj6sQ

https://postimg.cc/FdZMqsJx

https://postimg.cc/TpSZBshB

https://postimg.cc/WDmCFbSP

https://postimg.cc/mt05mF5s

https://postimg.cc/c6z9JnZn

https://postimg.cc/2bsZsrRV

https://postimg.cc/7b1hHgSB

https://postimg.cc/d7TQzdqj

Robert

Robert in CA wrote:
Paul asked to look into the BIOS and I had to look
up how to get to it. It says its usually F2 and that's
what I did. As I stated it looks the same as F12 to me.
Afterwards I did a F8 to see what that does.

Robert


The manual says:

"Entering System Setup

Your computer offers the following BIOS and System Setup options:

Bring up a one-time boot menu by pressing F12

Access System Setup by pressing F2
"

F8 might trigger Safe Mode in the OS boot (on Win7).

The manual doesn't seem to have an instance of F8 in it
that I can see.

There should be an Fkey used for some sort of
system recovery option (reinstall OS on a real
Dell setup). The manual says "Boot to Utility Partition"
is available in the F12 boot menu, but that's for
diagnostics.

My guess is there could be stuff missing from the manual.

It's interesting that the F12 boot menu, the manual doesn't
make it appear to follow the defacto standard. USB devices
(like the Patriot USB Key) might be handled via "hard drive emulation"
and be given the same status as a hard drive. Other mother
BIOS tend to jumble all the boot devices together and
make them all seem "equal" in the eyes of the BIOS.

The Optiplex manual also doesn't say whether the F12 boot
menu is a two-level scheme or just the one level.

On a regular computer, I would have said "Load Setup Defaults"
for the BIOS by now. But at this point, I suspect things
would only get worse on this computer... That's why I'm holding
off on mentioning it. It's a "profit and loss" issue. What
do we have to gain by resetting the BIOS settings ?

For example, if you reset the BIOS settings, the BIOS defaults
to using the built-in graphics, instead of using the PCI Express
card in the first slot. So on the next POST, you might well need
to plug the monitor into the build-in graphics VGA plug, before
you can interact with the machine and enable the PCI Express
video card. That's the sort of thing I was hoping to avoid.

There are some "broken computer" situations I've run into, where
the internal graphics no longer work, and if you reset the
BIOS (by pulling the CMOS coin cell), and the machine
reverts to the (broken) internal graphics, the user can then
no longer see the screen, and practical recovery of the
computer is then impossible. And all because the default
behavior is not to give the PCI Express video card priority.

Paul

Robert in CA wrote:
I followed your instructions but the 780 wouldn't boot
and looked at the repair option. So I reset the changes
and it boots again although still not genuine. The first
pics are the setting before the changes.

I tried to use the Patriot to load on the 8500
but it also didn't engage? It see's the drive
but for some reason it doesn't work? Last pic
shows the files.

https://postimg.cc/D8qZz1sj

https://postimg.cc/Bj7GZvh7

https://postimg.cc/xN3WwjJR

https://postimg.cc/KKLF92N9

https://postimg.cc/G9brj6sQ

https://postimg.cc/FdZMqsJx

https://postimg.cc/TpSZBshB

https://postimg.cc/WDmCFbSP

https://postimg.cc/mt05mF5s

https://postimg.cc/c6z9JnZn

https://postimg.cc/2bsZsrRV

https://postimg.cc/7b1hHgSB

https://postimg.cc/d7TQzdqj

Robert

The structure looks similar to what I have here.

It doesn't particularly look like the Patriot
failed to copy properly or something.

*******

The 780 F12 boot menu is bizarre looking.

That's not a conventional popup boot, because it
doesn't "look" like the usual "registered devices"
list. It looks like an extension of the boot
prioritization in the BIOS setup.

It's almost like that BIOS is two years behind
what other people in the industry were doing
or something. The machine I'm typing on, uses
the same kind of hardware, and it has better
USB boot behavior. My processor is a Core2, and
the Optiplex 780 uses a Core2 (with Q45 chipset).

And your pictures show you using the PXE (network)
boot option. And as you would expect, not finding
a boot server.

*******

Have we tried this combo yet ?

SATA 1 Backup drive (as boot device)
SATA 2 Original Win7 drive (as drive to be restored)

That would entail disconnecting the Optical drive
data cable, and using the SATA ports just for hard
drives.

And the Win10 drive would be unpowered and removed.

Paul

On Sunday, August 11, 2019 at 3:41:07 AM UTC-7, Paul wrote:
Robert in CA wrote:
Paul asked to look into the BIOS and I had to look
up how to get to it. It says its usually F2 and that's
what I did. As I stated it looks the same as F12 to me.
Afterwards I did a F8 to see what that does.

Robert


The manual says:

"Entering System Setup

Your computer offers the following BIOS and System Setup options:

Bring up a one-time boot menu by pressing F12

Access System Setup by pressing F2
"

F8 might trigger Safe Mode in the OS boot (on Win7).

The manual doesn't seem to have an instance of F8 in it
that I can see.

There should be an Fkey used for some sort of
system recovery option (reinstall OS on a real
Dell setup). The manual says "Boot to Utility Partition"
is available in the F12 boot menu, but that's for
diagnostics.

My guess is there could be stuff missing from the manual.

It's interesting that the F12 boot menu, the manual doesn't
make it appear to follow the defacto standard. USB devices
(like the Patriot USB Key) might be handled via "hard drive emulation"
and be given the same status as a hard drive. Other mother
BIOS tend to jumble all the boot devices together and
make them all seem "equal" in the eyes of the BIOS.

The Optiplex manual also doesn't say whether the F12 boot
menu is a two-level scheme or just the one level.

On a regular computer, I would have said "Load Setup Defaults"
for the BIOS by now. But at this point, I suspect things
would only get worse on this computer... That's why I'm holding
off on mentioning it. It's a "profit and loss" issue. What
do we have to gain by resetting the BIOS settings ?

For example, if you reset the BIOS settings, the BIOS defaults
to using the built-in graphics, instead of using the PCI Express
card in the first slot. So on the next POST, you might well need
to plug the monitor into the build-in graphics VGA plug, before
you can interact with the machine and enable the PCI Express
video card. That's the sort of thing I was hoping to avoid.

There are some "broken computer" situations I've run into, where
the internal graphics no longer work, and if you reset the
BIOS (by pulling the CMOS coin cell), and the machine
reverts to the (broken) internal graphics, the user can then
no longer see the screen, and practical recovery of the
computer is then impossible. And all because the default
behavior is not to give the PCI Express video card priority.

Paul

You triggered something when you said manual.. I
remembered it had a boot command function so I
went back to my paperwork and it says,.

https://postimg.cc/gnPVGnDY


I tried it but nothing happened...it didn't
have a system restore but it had a Recovery and
tried it.

https://postimg.cc/6T7cW8GS

Also whenever I'm login Win10 it keeps saying I
have files to burn:

https://postimg.cc/bsgs4Twj

I've tried to burn them but it says the files are
incorrect or something? So I keep getting these
pop-ups.

I was thinking,.. should I try a
normal system restore?

thoughts/suggestions
Robert

Yes but we tested it on the 8500 and
it still didn't work? Unless the 8500
also has a odd boot pattern?

but we've run the rescue disk and
Kapersky before and had no issues?
Maybe I should try using the DVD-R?
on the 780?

Robert

On Sunday, August 11, 2019 at 4:05:30 AM UTC-7, Paul wrote:
Robert in CA wrote:
I followed your instructions but the 780 wouldn't boot
and looked at the repair option. So I reset the changes
and it boots again although still not genuine. The first
pics are the setting before the changes.

I tried to use the Patriot to load on the 8500
but it also didn't engage? It see's the drive
but for some reason it doesn't work? Last pic
shows the files.

https://postimg.cc/D8qZz1sj

https://postimg.cc/Bj7GZvh7

https://postimg.cc/xN3WwjJR

https://postimg.cc/KKLF92N9

https://postimg.cc/G9brj6sQ

https://postimg.cc/FdZMqsJx

https://postimg.cc/TpSZBshB

https://postimg.cc/WDmCFbSP

https://postimg.cc/mt05mF5s

https://postimg.cc/c6z9JnZn

https://postimg.cc/2bsZsrRV

https://postimg.cc/7b1hHgSB

https://postimg.cc/d7TQzdqj

Robert

The structure looks similar to what I have here.

It doesn't particularly look like the Patriot
failed to copy properly or something.

*******

The 780 F12 boot menu is bizarre looking.

That's not a conventional popup boot, because it
doesn't "look" like the usual "registered devices"
list. It looks like an extension of the boot
prioritization in the BIOS setup.

It's almost like that BIOS is two years behind
what other people in the industry were doing
or something. The machine I'm typing on, uses
the same kind of hardware, and it has better
USB boot behavior. My processor is a Core2, and
the Optiplex 780 uses a Core2 (with Q45 chipset).

And your pictures show you using the PXE (network)
boot option. And as you would expect, not finding
a boot server.

*******

Have we tried this combo yet ?

SATA 1 Backup drive (as boot device)
SATA 2 Original Win7 drive (as drive to be restored)

That would entail disconnecting the Optical drive
data cable, and using the SATA ports just for hard
drives.

And the Win10 drive would be unpowered and removed.

Paul



I did try enabling SATA 1 and SATA 2 but when I did so
it came back with the F1 boot error. So I un-ticked SATA2
and it booted normally but still with the not genuine.


Robert

Robert in CA wrote:
On Sunday, August 11, 2019 at 3:41:07 AM UTC-7, Paul wrote:
Robert in CA wrote:
Paul asked to look into the BIOS and I had to look
up how to get to it. It says its usually F2 and that's
what I did. As I stated it looks the same as F12 to me.
Afterwards I did a F8 to see what that does.

Robert

The manual says:

"Entering System Setup

Your computer offers the following BIOS and System Setup options:

Bring up a one-time boot menu by pressing F12

Access System Setup by pressing F2
"

F8 might trigger Safe Mode in the OS boot (on Win7).

The manual doesn't seem to have an instance of F8 in it
that I can see.

There should be an Fkey used for some sort of
system recovery option (reinstall OS on a real
Dell setup). The manual says "Boot to Utility Partition"
is available in the F12 boot menu, but that's for
diagnostics.

My guess is there could be stuff missing from the manual.

It's interesting that the F12 boot menu, the manual doesn't
make it appear to follow the defacto standard. USB devices
(like the Patriot USB Key) might be handled via "hard drive emulation"
and be given the same status as a hard drive. Other mother
BIOS tend to jumble all the boot devices together and
make them all seem "equal" in the eyes of the BIOS.

The Optiplex manual also doesn't say whether the F12 boot
menu is a two-level scheme or just the one level.

On a regular computer, I would have said "Load Setup Defaults"
for the BIOS by now. But at this point, I suspect things
would only get worse on this computer... That's why I'm holding
off on mentioning it. It's a "profit and loss" issue. What
do we have to gain by resetting the BIOS settings ?

For example, if you reset the BIOS settings, the BIOS defaults
to using the built-in graphics, instead of using the PCI Express
card in the first slot. So on the next POST, you might well need
to plug the monitor into the build-in graphics VGA plug, before
you can interact with the machine and enable the PCI Express
video card. That's the sort of thing I was hoping to avoid.

There are some "broken computer" situations I've run into, where
the internal graphics no longer work, and if you reset the
BIOS (by pulling the CMOS coin cell), and the machine
reverts to the (broken) internal graphics, the user can then
no longer see the screen, and practical recovery of the
computer is then impossible. And all because the default
behavior is not to give the PCI Express video card priority.

Paul

You triggered something when you said manual.. I
remembered it had a boot command function so I
went back to my paperwork and it says,.

https://postimg.cc/gnPVGnDY


I tried it but nothing happened...it didn't
have a system restore but it had a Recovery and
tried it.

https://postimg.cc/6T7cW8GS

Also whenever I'm login Win10 it keeps saying I
have files to burn:

https://postimg.cc/bsgs4Twj

I've tried to burn them but it says the files are
incorrect or something? So I keep getting these
pop-ups.

I was thinking,.. should I try a
normal system restore?

thoughts/suggestions
Robert

I think there is at least some problem with
boot management, between the original Win7 disc
and the Win10 disc.

My guess is, *both* of those hard drives were
present when you installed Windows 10.

You're not supposed to do that.

One of the cardinal rules of OS installation is:

1) Only the disk receiving the new OS should be in
the computer, when you do the install. All other
disks should be unplugged.

This rule is intended to keep the Boot Manager on
the new disk, separate from Boot Management of
any other disks.

Macrium has a Repair Boot item in one of the CD menus,
and if you could boot your emergency CD (or USB key),
we could fix the boot issue. The procedure would be:

1) Disconnect the Win10 drive.
2) Connect the original Win7 drive only
3) Boot Macrium CD.
4) Use the Boot Repair option.
5) Verify that Windows 7 now boots, without a winload.exe error.

If you were doing that to Windows 10, you would
do it with only the Win10 disk connected.

1) Disconnect the Win7 drive.
2) Connect the Win10 drive only
3) Boot Macrium CD.
4) Use the Boot Repair option.
5) Verify that Windows 10 now boots, without a winload.exe error.

But how will we get Macrium to boot ? That is
the $64 question.

One thing to try, would be the popup boot and
cursor to the "CD/DVD" item and select that for boot.
If it hops off the CD and boots from a hard drive,
it means there could be something wrong with the CD.

You want to verify the CD/DVD drive is cabled up,
and is connected to a port which is enabled. This
should be easy in this case. You could do

SATA1 Hard drive to be repaired
SATA2 CD/DVD drive with Macrium in it

However, if it won't access the CD/DVD drive at all,
then that's a BIOS issue. For example, on my year 2000
P2B-S motherboard, it won't even blink the light on
a DVD drive. It just ignores a DVD drive, whereas it
will boot from a CD drive (one of the older CD drives).
Your machines are much newer than that antique,
and your machines both know what a DVD is.

Paul

I haven't been using the Win10 HD I'm on the Win7 HD
I also have one spare Win7 HD that's good.

I tried booting the Mcrium Rescue CD we created on Win 10
but it doesn't engage.

I can't remember how to disconnect the drives (please give
instructions of how to locate it again) but remember that is
what started all this by un-ticking Win7 so I was thinking
what if we un-ticked Win10? Maybe Win7 would function
again?

What do you think?

Robert