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#31
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Anyone have a good PCIe USB 3.1 card they like?
On 06/02/2018 05:44 PM, Paul wrote:
Char Jackson wrote: On Sat, 2 Jun 2018 02:49:39 -0500, VanguardLH wrote: USB2 is [theoretically] 480 Mbps.Â* Does the customer's computer have a NIC that can support 1 Gbps?Â* If so, how about a NAS drive?Â* Obviously the customer cannot swamp their network with traffic due to the collision detection and conflict handling of the Ethernet protocol.Â* If he downloads huge files from the Internet or passed them between his intranet hosts, issues huge print jobs, or otherwises dumps on his network then the NAS drive will get slower because its portion of the remaining bandwidth gets smaller. If there's a concern about bandwidth exhaustion, as described above, I'd just install a second 1gig NIC. Even good ones are cheap these days. Connect the new NIC directly to the NAS, effectively removing backup traffic from the primary LAN. Any Ethernet cable is fine, no crossover needed. If multiple computers need to be backed up using the 'backup LAN', add a 2nd NIC to each of them and stick a Gig switch in the middle to make the physical connections. Problem solved. Not explicitly stated, but hopefully obvious, configure the 2nd NICs and the NAS to use a subnet different from the primary LAN. No default gateway needed. USB2 is 0.48 Gbps.Â* NAS would be 1 Gbps.Â* USB3 would be 5 Gbps.Â* eSATA would be 6 Gbps. USB3.1 Type C has 10gig versions. I haven't seen a NAS that supports that yet, but I haven't checked. They could be out there, at a price. There's Thunderbolt II at 20Gbit/sec. (Usual nonsense at the bottom of the page, about some motherboard dependency. Intel is the king of bundleware.) https://www.asus.com/ca-en/Motherboa...nderboltEX_II/ There's also Thunderbolt III at 40gbit/sec. (This one uses a special cable that looks like a USB2 or something. The cable doesn't look especially high tech.) The I/O cable from one of these, can only be a yard long or so. The previous one supports a longer cable. https://www.asus.com/ca-en/Motherboa...underboltEX-3/ Apparently, the higher the datarate, the more a "sacrifice of your first born" is required to get it to work. And a comment I could find from a mere user who tested both, is the EX_II one "works", while the EX-3 one can "get into boot loops". There's a very specific order for driver installation (driver is installed before you fit the card). You can smell the "fresh baked tech from the lab" on these things. Or is that "half-baked". The Apple ecosystem should have some NAS entries with that connector on it. At this point, bog-standard USB3.0 at ~400MB/sec is looking pretty good. I checked my local computer store online, and their stock of USB3.1 cards is zero. Must be a very popular seller. Or, my last computer store is about to go out of business or something. I don't understand how you can pretend to be a "bricks and mortar", without any mortar. Won't the bricks fall over if nothing holds them up ? If they go under, I'll be left with "Best Buy" :-\ Yikes. Â*Â* Paul He will be pulling data off a SATA II drive, so ... |
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#32
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Anyone have a good PCIe USB 3.1 card they like?
On 06/02/2018 01:07 AM, VanguardLH wrote:
T wrote: If I move down to 3.0, I get http://www.siig.com/it-products/usb/...-3-0-pcie.html with w7 support and a sata power connector You would only be moving down from USB 3.1 (10 Gbps) *if* the external USB-attached drive also supports USB 3.1. Does it? Not spec'ed out yet. Also, while it mentions a PCI-e slot as a requirement, I find USB 3 on a one lane to be slow. So I prefer cards that use four lanes. Know what mobo is in the computer? Dell OptiPlex 960 It is old, but it is sweet running Windows 7 and he loves the computer. He has other computers running Where's Waldo (W10) and he hates them, which is something I find a lot. (Classic Shell and Shut Up 10 help a lot in that respect.) |
#33
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Anyone have a good PCIe USB 3.1 card they like?
On 06/02/2018 02:13 AM, Patrick wrote:
On 01/06/2018 18:39, T wrote: Hi All, Stay away from the Star Tech PEXUSB311AC2 Â*Â*Â*Â* StarTech.com Dual Port USB 3.1 Card – 1x USB-C – 1x Â*Â*Â*Â* USB-A – 10Gbps per port – Expansion Card – USB 3.1 PCI-E Â*Â*Â*Â* Card – USB 3 PCI It crashes your file system on large file transfers and crashes your boot if anything is plugged into it when you boot. Anyone have a favorite PCIe USB 3.1 card that actually works right?Â* Siig? Many thanks, -T On W7, I have the likes of this; https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/USB3-0-2-...EAAOSwo4pYfykP It came with a min-disk that had several drivers (Setup.exe type) on, (turns out to have a VIA chip). The blue socket is for a twin front panel USB3 socket. I had a little difficulty with the bracket that didn't quite stretch to the case (had to bend it a little). There is also a similar version of the same with all 4 USB3 sockets at the back; https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/PCI-E-USB...AOSwBSxbDCn j I try to avoid Fleabay. Who makes these cards? |
#34
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Anyone have a good PCIe USB 3.1 card they like?
T wrote:
On 06/02/2018 02:13 AM, Patrick wrote: On 01/06/2018 18:39, T wrote: Hi All, Stay away from the Star Tech PEXUSB311AC2 Â*Â*Â*Â* StarTech.com Dual Port USB 3.1 Card – 1x USB-C – 1x Â*Â*Â*Â* USB-A – 10Gbps per port – Expansion Card – USB 3.1 PCI-E Â*Â*Â*Â* Card – USB 3 PCI It crashes your file system on large file transfers and crashes your boot if anything is plugged into it when you boot. Anyone have a favorite PCIe USB 3.1 card that actually works right?Â* Siig? Many thanks, -T On W7, I have the likes of this; https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/USB3-0-2-...EAAOSwo4pYfykP It came with a min-disk that had several drivers (Setup.exe type) on, (turns out to have a VIA chip). The blue socket is for a twin front panel USB3 socket. I had a little difficulty with the bracket that didn't quite stretch to the case (had to bend it a little). There is also a similar version of the same with all 4 USB3 sockets at the back; https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/PCI-E-USB...AOSwBSxbDCn j I try to avoid Fleabay. Who makes these cards? Probably most, maybe all, are made in China. The "maker" just slaps their sticker on the product. For example, Corsair doesn't manufacture anything but specs out what they want someone else to make, puts their name on it, and users are led to believe because "Corsair" is on the product that it must be better than some OEM or white label product. The same plant can manufacture crappy, mediocre, and excellent products depending on what their told to build. There are lots of video cards that are built only to the reference model for the GPU, so they're easy to "design" (it's already been done). I could tell who made the USB card in the first eBay auction. In the second one and its pics, , I noticed "ACS-N204Plus" silkscreened on the PCB. https://www.google.com/search?q=acs-n204plus which let me find: https://www.acs.com.hk/en/ That ACS (Advanced Card Systems) is based in Hong Kong doesn't mean that is where the card is manufacturered. ACS could be just another reseller of some manufacturer's product. ACS tell the manufacturer what to produce, including the silkscreened text. Their about-us page (https://www.acs.com.hk/en/corporate-profile/) merely says they develop the products, not that they manufacture them. While SIIG (the "maker" in which you were interested) claims to be a manufacturer, I've yet to see anywhere listed their production plants. Could be they are a "someone else manufactures to SIIG's specs" brand. When going by brand, you can only rely on their reputation regarding quality and don't really care who actually makes the product for that brand. Tis likely ACS makes cards for several different brands. You just don't get the brand stickers on the products. I don't see any USB design as being highly complicated these days. A controller chip, some voltage regulation and diodes for connection protection, and that's about it. I don't see a problem with the card itself in that eBay auction. The big problem is that it ships from Hong Kong. Items listed for location as China end up taking 45 days for delivery to the USA due to extended delays in customs for China. I don't know if Hong Kong for seller location is any better. If they had regional distribution centers (warehouses) that they stocked to avoid customs delays then the auction should list that warehouse as from where the item ships. Even if I elect the "Item location = UK only" (for me it would be US only since I use the eBay.com site, not ebay.co.uk), the seller could be anywhere, like China, but would need to ship from a distro center is the US. The seller claims to sell "Worldwide" and yet has a huge list of exclusions, including Hong Kong where ACS (the card "maker") is located and all of North and South America. Geez! This seller has a very tight range of to which countries he will sell (well, to where he will ship). Personally I don't bother with any of their bid-only auctions. Waste of my time. I already know that I want the product, so I'm not fighting, er, bidding with others to get it. Plus there is a lot of sniping going on (last second bidding). There are even sites dedicated to help buyers snipe within the last few seconds of an auction at eBay (e.g., justsnipe.com). I've ran across way too many boobs that haven't done any research on pricing to know what a product sells for. They end up overbidding, spend more than they should, and push out everyone else that does know the pricing. I use the "Buy It Now" filter to only look at auctions where I can buy NOW and not waste time with bidding. By the time you add shipping cost to an auction, you might as well as enable the "free postage" filter to get free shipping. The seller will add in the shipping cost since they aren't in business to lose money; however, if there is a problem, a return on a "free shipping" item means you get both the bid/buy-it-now price AND the initial shipping. A return on a free-shipped item means there is no shipping cost to deduct from what you paid. You're only stuck with the return shipping. At eBay, I used the new, buy-it-now, free shipping, my country (for location of seller) I don't see a problem with the card. Rather I see a seller from whom I would NEVER buy. Also, as you noted in your reply to one of my other posts, you don't want a 1-lane PCI-e 1x USB card, and that's what is being sold in this eBay auction. If you decide a PCI-e 1x daughtercard is okay for adding USB ports, why go with just 2 ports, or just 4 ports. You can get 7-port cards. I doubt those ports are concurrently used (even if devices are left plugged into them). However, with the ports horizontal instead of vertical, they can be too tight to the backplate opening. You'll need to slide the card into the slot, plug a USB cable into both the bottom and top ports, and THEN tighten the hold-down screw. Just in case the StarTech card that you don't like was bought less than 30 days ago, they have a 30-day satisfaction guarantee. You'll need to contact them to see if they honor that guarantee when their products are sold through other sellers (Newegg, Amazon, etc). https://www.startech.com/faq/startech-return-policy |
#35
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Anyone have a good PCIe USB 3.1 card they like?
T wrote:
He will be pulling data off a SATA II drive, so ... So a regular USB3 card is all that's necessary. You could use a NEC/Renesas USB3.0 card then, no problem. Renesas made 2 port and 4 port chips for add-in cards. USB 3.0 = USB3.1 Rev1 = ~200MB/sec in PCI Express x1 REV1 slot = ~400MB/sec in PCI Express x1 REV2 slot = ~450MB/sec as a Southbridge (DMI) Intel port USB 3.1 Rev2 = ~700MB/sec in PCI Express x2 REV2 slot (slot size x4) ~700MB/sec in PCI Express x1 REV3 slot (slot size x1) = (faster as a native port on a Intel Southbridge perhaps) USB 3.2 (just arrived) = (20Gbit/sec available on USB C in dual lane mode) (as practical as chrome bumpers and white-wall tires on a car, no peripheral in sight) The first step, is a *slot survey* to see what resources are available in the machine for expansion. Chances are, a USB3.0 card for $25 is all that's needed. And the customer can't really be disappointed if you plug the card into a Rev.2 slot. If you have no choice but to use a Rev.1 slot (such slots are all too common), then an "eagle eyed" customer is going to see the "spikes" near the beginning of a HDTune benchmark get clipped off by the limited slot bandwidth. Whereas a Rev.2 slot will satisfy at least some usage of an SSD being plugged inside the drive enclosure. Paul |
#36
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Anyone have a good PCIe USB 3.1 card they like?
T wrote:
On 06/02/2018 12:49 AM, VanguardLH wrote: Does the mobo support eSATA one port problem with eSata. Windows does not have the cool tools for mount, unmount, and eject as does Linux. So, the customer has to plug it in and leave it. eSata ain't portable under Windows. Sure there are utilities for that, but they suck. Wrong, wrong, and wrong. What were you thinking Obi-Wan ? How can you have an ESATA connector on the back of a computer, without Eject capability ? It was designed for easy Plug/Unplug. The OS *has* to support that. We can't have people running around ripping off connectors, without some mechanism to do it safely. Windows supports Hot Plug for ESATA and even for regular SATA. In fact, it will even pretend you can eject C: but it won't actually let you do that because (like Unix/Linux) "the volume is busy" :-) These features were first exposed when Hot Plug SATA first came out, and Microsoft has had to clean up the UI a bit over the years, so as to avoid scaring people. (People *hated* seeing SATA drives offered for ejection... Especially seeing C: in the list.) On any decent motherboard in a tower, look for an enable/disable for Hot Plug in the BIOS. That can gate off availability. You'll need to turn it on there first. If you're serious about using a SATA dock for the customer (say), there are articles on making this more convenient. You could probably get a 5.25" tray that allows SATA tray operation, then run a SATA cable from the back of that to the motherboard SATA area. A superior tray for a tower, uses gentle lever mechanisms for pulling the drive, as doing Hot Plug runs the risk of mechanical damage if the spindle is still spinning. https://superuser.com/questions/8172...ect-in-windows Use the small utility HotSwap!. http://mt-naka.com/hotswap/index_enu.htm "About HotSwap! This software is developed based on the information Knowledge Base Article #10744 - SATA: Hot Plugging Drives under Win2000/XP (Internet Archive) provided by Silicon Image. It does the same thing as you can remove device from Device Manager but it provides much friendly user interface as you remove the removable device from the "Safely Remove Hardware" icon in the notification area. It also ensures that all data are written and flushed to the disk before the device to be hot-swapped, so you can use SATA/eSATA drive as a removable device much alike USB/IEEE1394 drive. " That's the part I can't vouch for on Windows, is nicely reproducible "parking" of hardware. For example, my newest machine, if I "Safely Remove" a USB enclosure with an SSD inside, the SSD keeps counting "dirty shutdowns" implying for some reason it hasn't been put in a safe state inside the enclosure. This is why it's generally a good idea to buy enclosures with a USB LED that indicates the quiescent state, before unplugging. Not all Windows OSes seem to do this properly. (I can count on WinXP to do it right!) One of the hints in the SuperUser article, is to use Disk Management to put a disk in the Offline state, to "encourage" a non-busy hardware state. I've even had one report from someone who had to do this for a *USB* drive - they can't safely remove a USB HDD enclosure connection, without putting the drive "offline" in Disk Management. If you find a setup requires the "offline" trick, don't forget that later when plugged back in, you have to set it "online" again, because the system remembers the state across reboots. My recommendation ? Play with it a bit more. A "best" kind of design, would allow Safely Remove from Windows, then, a power switch on the enclosure, so that you can be absolutely certain the spindle is stopped and the heads parked before moving it. One of the reasons I don't like "toaster docks", is because of the possibility of handling things while they're still actually spinning. You want to test and *make sure* (put ear to hard drive) that the software is actually putting the drive in the desired state. There's no point having a fancy "eject" setup, if you're damaging the hardware doing it. Test test test... before giving to a customer! States: 1) Fully working. 2) Change drive to "Offline", which dismounts all partitions. (There may be other ways to do a dismount besides that.) 3) Try safely remove, using some means. 4) Verify the damn spindle is stopping properly. Not all hardware combinations seem to be handling this properly (the proof being my SSD is reporting "emergency power" events). You must *test* this is working, before release to an actual customer. If SMART reports more and more "emergency power" type events, something isn't right, and you shouldn't leave things in that miserable state. It could damage something, if it was "for real". Better than nothing, is a power switch you can use, to switch off the power after (3), so at least any rotating HDDs will be parked (even if it's counted as an "emergency power" event). On consumer SSDs, emergency power events counted are *not* a good thing. Consumer SSDs don't have a supercap, and we don't know how well they handle power events. You could (eventually) brick the SSD drive. 5) Unplug "cold" drive and walk away with it. You could do most of this testing on your home setup (match the customer OS!!!), but I would suggest verifying (4) onsite. Don't do a sloppy job. I wouldn't have to offer warnings about (4), except for the mixed results I'm seeing here. The results don't inspire confidence, and could be due to the enclosure chip design or firmware on my setup. I did have SATA Hot Plug set up once here, but it's not something I leave setup or enabled. I at least proved it worked. The first discovery of Hot Plug that I remember, was by a USENET participant. He was relating how he broke the SATA connector on a hard drive :-\ "And when he would hold up the SATA connector against the hard drive stub, he could see his data and get his files off." He transferred all the files off the hard drive, by holding the connector against it. That was the first case of accidentally noticing that Silicon Image had put Hot Plug support in their driver, before Windows did. It was pretty funny at the time. At the time, we wouldn't have predicted that would happen (no one would have suggested just holding the connector against it like that). Paul |
#37
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Anyone have a good PCIe USB 3.1 card they like?
T wrote:
On 06/02/2018 01:07 AM, VanguardLH wrote: T wrote: If I move down to 3.0, I get http://www.siig.com/it-products/usb/...-3-0-pcie.html with w7 support and a sata power connector You would only be moving down from USB 3.1 (10 Gbps) *if* the external USB-attached drive also supports USB 3.1. Does it? Not spec'ed out yet. Also, while it mentions a PCI-e slot as a requirement, I find USB 3 on a one lane to be slow. So I prefer cards that use four lanes. Know what mobo is in the computer? Dell OptiPlex 960 It is old, but it is sweet running Windows 7 and he loves the computer. He has other computers running Where's Waldo (W10) and he hates them, which is something I find a lot. (Classic Shell and Shut Up 10 help a lot in that respect.) https://www.dell.com/downloads/globa...idebook-en.pdf Chipset Q45/ICH10DO https://s15.postimg.cc/iebrabknv/q45.gif The processor PCI Express x16 is likely Rev.2 standard. The add-in card slots are wired to Rev.1 x1 via ICH10 and the DMI bus. So a USB3 card will give close to 200MB/sec or so in an x1 slot. If the $25 NEC/Renesas USB3 card was plugged into the video card slot, it would go faster. You wouldn't be able to use a USB3.1 Rev.2 with x4 connector, unless it plugged into the video card slot. With the purpose being there, to take advantage of the Asmedia two lane chip interface to gain extra speed from the bus side. In the PostImage picture, notice this system has the added complexity of sharing video card slot lane wiring with the Q45 GPU graphics connectors. I presume that means the slot is wired x8, as it wouldn't be too good to be using muxes or something to share the I/Os. What cheapness, Intel !!! What would it have cost them to put separate pins for those graphics digital outputs ? Paul |
#38
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Anyone have a good PCIe USB 3.1 card they like?
On Sun, 3 Jun 2018 16:33:47 -0500, VanguardLH wrote:
Char Jackson wrote: The last bricks-and-mortar computer store that I visited was a MicroCenter in about 2003/2004. After that, I did about 10 years exclusively with Newegg, and since then I'm 90/10 with Amazon and Newegg. We have Best Buy stores around here, the nearest about 10-15 minutes away, but I haven't been in there. A big advantage of bricks-and-mortar stores is that you can actually see and feel the products, like mice, keyboards, and monitors, to know what they are really like. Yes, of course. I mentioned that in the post to which you responded. Amazon seems to know what they're doing. With Prime, ... Prime requires a paid subscription: $13/month or $199/year. Uffdah! https://www.amazon.com/Amazon-Prime-.../dp/B00DBYBNEE I assume $199 was a typo - the annual cost is going up to $119/year (from $99/year), so the next time I renew it'll be at the higher price. I wasn't trying to sell their Prime service to anyone. I was simply pointing out that it makes financial sense for _me_. I hit the breakeven point every year around month #4, month #5 at the latest. After that, it's all free shipping and very fast delivery. I also use the Prime Video service quite a bit, which makes a nice complement to Netflix (which I don't pay for). I don't use the music service or the magazines or the books. Besides, I rarely need a product RIGHT NOW and if I did then I'd pay the high-priced overnight delivery on a one-time basis instead of getting suckered into a recurring monthly or yearly subscription. Do the math to avoid getting suckered. Prime is an excellent deal for me, but if you order infrequently it's almost certainly not a good deal for you. With eBay eBay is my place of last resort. I've bought and sold on eBay, and more often than not the experience has been disappointing in some way. -- Char Jackson |
#39
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Anyone have a good PCIe USB 3.1 card they like?
On 02/06/2018 03:13, T wrote:
On 06/01/2018 06:38 PM, VanguardLH wrote: T wrote: T wrote: T wrote: Anyone have a favorite PCIe USB 3.1 card that actually works right?Â* Siig? I am looking at this one: http://www.siig.com/it-products/usb/...-type-a-c.html But I can not tell which chipset it uses Found it: Chipset: Asmedia ASM1142 Wonder if it works any better than the asmedia 2142? Note the list of operating systems supported by this card at: http://www.siig.com/download/search/...d=JU-P20A12-S1 (when going to your link for the product page, I clicked on Downloads to see what were available for this card.) Windows 7 is not included.Â* Why?Â* SIIG does *not* provide a driver for this card.Â* They rely on the one included in Windows.Â* However, as mentioned in my reply to Paul, Windows 7 only supports up to USB 2.0. Windows 7 does *NOT* natively support USB 3.x, so you cannot use this card with Windows 7.Â* you MUST install a driver in Windows 7 to add USB 3.x, and SIIG doesn't provide one for that card. I just will install the chipset drivers from Intel But you just said it's not an Intel chip: Chipset: Asmedia ASM1142 -- Brian Gregory (in England). |
#40
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Anyone have a good PCIe USB 3.1 card they like?
On 06/04/2018 10:41 AM, Char Jackson wrote:
On Sun, 3 Jun 2018 16:33:47 -0500, VanguardLH wrote: Char Jackson wrote: The last bricks-and-mortar computer store that I visited was a MicroCenter in about 2003/2004. After that, I did about 10 years exclusively with Newegg, and since then I'm 90/10 with Amazon and Newegg. We have Best Buy stores around here, the nearest about 10-15 minutes away, but I haven't been in there. A big advantage of bricks-and-mortar stores is that you can actually see and feel the products, like mice, keyboards, and monitors, to know what they are really like. Yes, of course. I mentioned that in the post to which you responded. Amazon seems to know what they're doing. With Prime, ... Prime requires a paid subscription: $13/month or $199/year. Uffdah! https://www.amazon.com/Amazon-Prime-.../dp/B00DBYBNEE I assume $199 was a typo - the annual cost is going up to $119/year (from $99/year), so the next time I renew it'll be at the higher price. I wasn't trying to sell their Prime service to anyone. I was simply pointing out that it makes financial sense for _me_. I hit the breakeven point every year around month #4, month #5 at the latest. After that, it's all free shipping and very fast delivery. I also use the Prime Video service quite a bit, which makes a nice complement to Netflix (which I don't pay for). I don't use the music service or the magazines or the books. Besides, I rarely need a product RIGHT NOW and if I did then I'd pay the high-priced overnight delivery on a one-time basis instead of getting suckered into a recurring monthly or yearly subscription. Do the math to avoid getting suckered. Prime is an excellent deal for me, but if you order infrequently it's almost certainly not a good deal for you. With eBay eBay is my place of last resort. I've bought and sold on eBay, and more often than not the experience has been disappointing in some way. I found it strange that our Canadian Amazon price did not increase, Thank goodness, still $79.00 I just renewed mine a couple weeks ago. I use Amazon prime a lot as the big major stores are all moved to the outskirts of the city and seeing I don't drive or own a vehicle and cab fares are so expensive I tend to use Amazon Prime a lot. No delivery costs and 2 day service are great, And I have never had to return anything. I don't use the music and movie things, just the shopping part. Rene |
#41
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Anyone have a good PCIe USB 3.1 card they like?
On 06/04/2018 05:47 AM, Paul wrote:
T wrote: On 06/02/2018 12:49 AM, VanguardLH wrote: Does the mobo support eSATA one port problem with eSata.Â* Windows does not have the cool tools for mount, unmount, and eject as does Linux.Â* So, the customer has to plug it in and leave it.Â* eSata ain't portable under Windows.Â* Sure there are utilities for that, but they suck. Wrong, wrong, and wrong. What were you thinking Obi-Wan ? How can you have an ESATA connector on the back of a computer, without Eject capability ? It was designed for easy Plug/Unplug. The OS *has* to support that. We can't have people running around ripping off connectors, without some mechanism to do it safely. Windows supports Hot Plug for ESATA and even for regular SATA. In fact, it will even pretend you can eject C: but it won't actually let you do that because (like Unix/Linux) "the volume is busy" :-) These features were first exposed when Hot Plug SATA first came out, and Microsoft has had to clean up the UI a bit over the years, so as to avoid scaring people. (People *hated* seeing SATA drives offered for ejection... Especially seeing C: in the list.) On any decent motherboard in a tower, look for an enable/disable for Hot Plug in the BIOS. That can gate off availability. You'll need to turn it on there first. If you're serious about using a SATA dock for the customer (say), there are articles on making this more convenient. You could probably get a 5.25" tray that allows SATA tray operation, then run a SATA cable from the back of that to the motherboard SATA area. A superior tray for a tower, uses gentle lever mechanisms for pulling the drive, as doing Hot Plug runs the risk of mechanical damage if the spindle is still spinning. https://superuser.com/questions/8172...ect-in-windows Â*Â* Use the small utility HotSwap!. Â*Â* http://mt-naka.com/hotswap/index_enu.htm Â*Â*Â*Â* "About HotSwap! Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* This software is developed based on the information Knowledge Base Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* Article #10744 - SATA: Hot Plugging Drives under Win2000/XP Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* (Internet Archive) provided by Silicon Image. Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* It does the same thing as you can remove device from Device Manager Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* but it provides much friendly user interface as you remove the Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* removable device from the "Safely Remove Hardware" icon in the Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* notification area. It also ensures that all data are written Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* and flushed to the disk before the device to be hot-swapped, Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* so you can use SATA/eSATA drive as a removable device much Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* alike USB/IEEE1394 drive. Â*Â*Â*Â* " That's the part I can't vouch for on Windows, is nicely reproducible "parking" of hardware. For example, my newest machine, if I "Safely Remove" a USB enclosure with an SSD inside, the SSD keeps counting "dirty shutdowns" implying for some reason it hasn't been put in a safe state inside the enclosure. This is why it's generally a good idea to buy enclosures with a USB LED that indicates the quiescent state, before unplugging. Not all Windows OSes seem to do this properly. (I can count on WinXP to do it right!) One of the hints in the SuperUser article, is to use Disk Management to put a disk in the Offline state, to "encourage" a non-busy hardware state. I've even had one report from someone who had to do this for a *USB* drive - they can't safely remove a USB HDD enclosure connection, without putting the drive "offline" in Disk Management. If you find a setup requires the "offline" trick, don't forget that later when plugged back in, you have to set it "online" again, because the system remembers the state across reboots. My recommendation ? Play with it a bit more. A "best" kind of design, would allow Safely Remove from Windows, then, a power switch on the enclosure, so that you can be absolutely certain the spindle is stopped and the heads parked before moving it. One of the reasons I don't like "toaster docks", is because of the possibility of handling things while they're still actually spinning. You want to test and *make sure* (put ear to hard drive) that the software is actually putting the drive in the desired state. There's no point having a fancy "eject" setup, if you're damaging the hardware doing it. Test test test... before giving to a customer! States: 1) Fully working. 2) Change drive to "Offline", which dismounts all partitions. Â*Â* (There may be other ways to do a dismount besides that.) 3) Try safely remove, using some means. 4) Verify the damn spindle is stopping properly. Not Â*Â* all hardware combinations seem to be handling this Â*Â* properly (the proof being my SSD is reporting Â*Â* "emergency power" events). You must *test* this is Â*Â* working, before release to an actual customer. Â*Â* If SMART reports more and more "emergency power" Â*Â* type events, something isn't right, and you shouldn't Â*Â* leave things in that miserable state. It could damage Â*Â* something, if it was "for real". Â*Â* Better than nothing, is a power switch you can use, Â*Â* to switch off the power after (3), so at least any Â*Â* rotating HDDs will be parked (even if it's Â*Â* counted as an "emergency power" event). On consumer Â*Â* SSDs, emergency power events counted are *not* a good thing. Â*Â* Consumer SSDs don't have a supercap, and we don't Â*Â* know how well they handle power events. Â*Â* You could (eventually) brick the SSD drive. 5) Unplug "cold" drive and walk away with it. You could do most of this testing on your home setup (match the customer OS!!!), but I would suggest verifying (4) onsite. Don't do a sloppy job. I wouldn't have to offer warnings about (4), except for the mixed results I'm seeing here. The results don't inspire confidence, and could be due to the enclosure chip design or firmware on my setup. I did have SATA Hot Plug set up once here, but it's not something I leave setup or enabled. I at least proved it worked. The first discovery of Hot Plug that I remember, was by a USENET participant. He was relating how he broke the SATA connector on a hard drive :-\ "And when he would hold up the SATA connector against the hard drive stub, he could see his data and get his files off." He transferred all the files off the hard drive, by holding the connector against it. That was the first case of accidentally noticing that Silicon Image had put Hot Plug support in their driver, before Windows did. It was pretty funny at the time. At the time, we wouldn't have predicted that would happen (no one would have suggested just holding the connector against it like that). Â*Â* Paul Kinda, sorta, suppose to. Windows and hot plug, Oh Boy. Doesn't matter if the hardware is designed for it or not. |
#42
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Anyone have a good PCIe USB 3.1 card they like?
On 06/04/2018 04:46 AM, Paul wrote:
T wrote: He will be pulling data off a SATA II drive, so ... So a regular USB3 card is all that's necessary. You could use a NEC/Renesas USB3.0 card then, no problem. Renesas made 2 port and 4 port chips for add-in cards. USB 3.0 = USB3.1 Rev1 = ~200MB/sec in PCI Express x1 REV1 slot Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* = ~400MB/sec in PCI Express x1 REV2 slot Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* = ~450MB/sec as a Southbridge (DMI) Intel port USB 3.1 Rev2Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* = ~700MB/sec in PCI Express x2 REV2 slot (slot size x4) Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* ~700MB/sec in PCI Express x1 REV3 slot (slot size x1) Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* = (faster as a native port on a Intel Southbridge perhaps) USB 3.2 (just arrived)Â* = (20Gbit/sec available on USB C in dual lane mode) Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* (as practical as chrome bumpers and white-wall tires Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* Â* on a car, no peripheral in sight) The first step, is a *slot survey* to see what resources are available in the machine for expansion. Chances are, a USB3.0 card for $25 is all that's needed. And the customer can't really be disappointed if you plug the card into a Rev.2 slot. If you have no choice but to use a Rev.1 slot (such slots are all too common), then an "eagle eyed" customer is going to see the "spikes" near the beginning of a HDTune benchmark get clipped off by the limited slot bandwidth. Whereas a Rev.2 slot will satisfy at least some usage of an SSD being plugged inside the drive enclosure. Â*Â* Paul Except I have had bad experiences out the wazoo with NEC/Renesas cards. Basically, you have to put them in and test them and cross your fingers and hope not to look like an idiot to the customer. Sometimes they work, some times they work for "a while", sometimes the drives work but you have to boot several times each time you power down, and other times they don't. And when you FINALLY find a model that works in a particular machine, it won't work anywhere else. You typically look like an idiot. I am to the point where I will recommend installing a second internal hard drive or going with carbonite. |
#43
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Anyone have a good PCIe USB 3.1 card they like?
On 06/04/2018 06:28 AM, Paul wrote:
T wrote: On 06/02/2018 01:07 AM, VanguardLH wrote: T wrote: If I move down to 3.0, I get http://www.siig.com/it-products/usb/...-3-0-pcie.html with w7 support and a sata power connector You would only be moving down from USB 3.1 (10 Gbps) *if* the external USB-attached drive also supports USB 3.1.Â* Does it? Not spec'ed out yet. Also, while it mentions a PCI-e slot as a requirement, I find USB 3 on a one lane to be slow.Â* So I prefer cards that use four lanes. Know what mobo is in the computer? Dell OptiPlex 960 It is old, but it is sweet running Windows 7 and he loves the computer. He has other computers running Where's Waldo (W10) and he hates them, which is something I find a lot. (Classic Shell and Shut Up 10 help a lot in that respect.) https://www.dell.com/downloads/globa...idebook-en.pdf Â*Â* Chipset Q45/ICH10DO Â*Â* https://s15.postimg.cc/iebrabknv/q45.gif The processor PCI Express x16 is likely Rev.2 standard. The add-in card slots are wired to Rev.1 x1 via ICH10 and the DMI bus. So a USB3 card will give close to 200MB/sec or so in an x1 slot. If the $25 NEC/Renesas USB3 card was plugged into the video card slot, it would go faster. You wouldn't be able to use a USB3.1 Rev.2 with x4 connector, unless it plugged into the video card slot. With the purpose being there, to take advantage of the Asmedia two lane chip interface to gain extra speed from the bus side. In the PostImage picture, notice this system has the added complexity of sharing video card slot lane wiring with the Q45 GPU graphics connectors. I presume that means the slot is wired x8, as it wouldn't be too good to be using muxes or something to share the I/Os. What cheapness, Intel !!! What would it have cost them to put separate pins for those graphics digital outputs ? Â*Â* Paul Ya, I was just going to plug into the 16 lane slot. The guy really should get a new computer, but he hates Windows 10. He is also a new customer. And telling a new customer to get a new computer typically turns him into a former customer. |
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Anyone have a good PCIe USB 3.1 card they like?
On 06/04/2018 10:32 AM, Brian Gregory wrote:
On 02/06/2018 03:13, T wrote: But you just said it's not an Intel chip: Chipset: Asmedia ASM1142 me make boo-boo. I wonder if there are an USB3.1 cards with Intel chipsets? |
#45
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Anyone have a good PCIe USB 3.1 card they like?
T wrote:
On 06/04/2018 06:28 AM, Paul wrote: T wrote: On 06/02/2018 01:07 AM, VanguardLH wrote: T wrote: If I move down to 3.0, I get http://www.siig.com/it-products/usb/...-3-0-pcie.html with w7 support and a sata power connector You would only be moving down from USB 3.1 (10 Gbps) *if* the external USB-attached drive also supports USB 3.1. Does it? Not spec'ed out yet. Also, while it mentions a PCI-e slot as a requirement, I find USB 3 on a one lane to be slow. So I prefer cards that use four lanes. Know what mobo is in the computer? Dell OptiPlex 960 It is old, but it is sweet running Windows 7 and he loves the computer. He has other computers running Where's Waldo (W10) and he hates them, which is something I find a lot. (Classic Shell and Shut Up 10 help a lot in that respect.) https://www.dell.com/downloads/globa...idebook-en.pdf Chipset Q45/ICH10DO https://s15.postimg.cc/iebrabknv/q45.gif The processor PCI Express x16 is likely Rev.2 standard. The add-in card slots are wired to Rev.1 x1 via ICH10 and the DMI bus. So a USB3 card will give close to 200MB/sec or so in an x1 slot. If the $25 NEC/Renesas USB3 card was plugged into the video card slot, it would go faster. You wouldn't be able to use a USB3.1 Rev.2 with x4 connector, unless it plugged into the video card slot. With the purpose being there, to take advantage of the Asmedia two lane chip interface to gain extra speed from the bus side. In the PostImage picture, notice this system has the added complexity of sharing video card slot lane wiring with the Q45 GPU graphics connectors. I presume that means the slot is wired x8, as it wouldn't be too good to be using muxes or something to share the I/Os. What cheapness, Intel !!! What would it have cost them to put separate pins for those graphics digital outputs ? Paul Ya, I was just going to plug into the 16 lane slot. The guy really should get a new computer, but he hates Windows 10. He is also a new customer. And telling a new customer to get a new computer typically turns him into a former customer. Since the video card slot is Rev.2, that should be a good fit for a $25 USB3 card. Paul |
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