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#136
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Win7 support:
On Sunday, July 14, 2019 at 9:52:14 PM UTC-7, Paul wrote:
Robert in CA wrote: On Tuesday, July 9, 2019 at 6:20:02 AM UTC-7, Paul wrote: Robert in CA wrote: Also, it never asked me about Win 10 Pro but I see that it installed it on both the 8500 and 780. Robert Apparently, it's more clever than I am. It must be reading something about the licensing of the machine on its own. Windows 7 OEM would use a BIOS SLIC table. Maybe it can parse something from there, to figure out the SKU to use. Since you didn't do a Win10-over-Win7, it would not otherwise have a clue what was on the machine. If you entered the key from the COA at the key prompt, now *that* is a stronger clue for the installer. It's possible to "re-master" a Windows installer DVD and remove "ei.cfg", which is supposed to cause the menu of available OSes to appear. A recipe such as the one I showed you for "making a DVD smaller" would likely work, minus the DISM step. You'd extract the DVD contents, then use oscdimg.exe to make a new DVD. Once you'd removed ei.cfg from the folder holding the DVD contents, of course. Everything seems to be done at this point. Play with Windows 10 as you see fit. Test Classic Shell on it, if the interface bothers you or something :-) I use Windows 10, but I can't "surf in it all day long" or do personal stuff in it. For me right now, it's just an engine. Paul Today I tried to install the Windows 10 HD in the 780 but it only has one connector on the blue cable. http://i63.tinypic.com/255l26f.jpg So can I buy another cable with two connectors or am I limited to just one HD at a time? Where would I buy it? Newegg? Is this the data or power cable? What would I ask for? Thanks, Robert The power on the right, is already daisy-chained. Assuming you have the original supply in there, then the spacing would look like the picture. If you have a replacement supply in there, the connector to connector spacing can be different. It just means there's more slack cable between the two drive installs. ******* As far as the data cable is concerned, the blue part is a "Dell-ism" and you won't find that elsewhere. Whatever that long handle is for, other companies use a less fancy left-angle connector. The problem with a left-angle connector, is it can be a nuisance to take off. It's hard to get a grip on it. ******* There are both right angle (cable goes down) and left angle (cable goes up) data connectors. From the picture you show, you probably want this one. https://www.newegg.com/p/N82E16812123282 The straight end goes into the vertical motherboard connector. The angled part is for the drive. With your spare drive sitting in front of you, notice how the 7 contact data portion is "L-shaped". The L is for keying, so it only goes on one way. Now, using the magnifier view on the Newegg web page, eyeball how the left-angle, with the cable leading away in the upward direction, mates properly with the drive in its normal orientation (stick-on label facing upwards). It's by doing these test installs in your mind, that you get the correct cable on the first try. The cables without the metal jaw for retention, are suitable for a couple hundred insertions. The unadorned cables are a compression fit, but the connector will wear a bit and the normal force will go down with time, and they get a little loose. The cables with the metal jaw, fit tighter, but they can be slightly harder to get off too. If you plan on using the cables a great many times, until the connector is worn, the jaw helps hold things together a bit longer. In the Test Machine, I have four without jaws, and two with jaws, to give you some idea how arbitrary it is :-) Pick a length suitable for the job. Measure the current cable, and imagine in your mind how the new cable will be routed. It's a lot like picking shoe laces at the shoe store. It really helps to have an old lace in your hand for sizing. Paul Hmmmmmmmm I didn't think was going to be difficult. I don't know if it's the original PSU or not since I bought this refurbished from Staples. I guess I should have disconnected it and taken a picture of the end. The link you provided is that same as the one I have e.g. only (1) connection. Maybe I won't do this after all, I thought this was going to be easy so I could install the Win10 HD and be able to switch from Win7Pro or Win10 (to practice). As the saying goes if it isn't broke don't fix it. In passing, I lost my Internet connection Friday even though it showed I was connected on my end. I called my internet provider and I was on the phone for 3 hours with me doing most of the work and finally ended with them creating a ticket for the problem and I would have to wait a week before they came out. Not 20 minutes after the call everything connected like the lights coming back on after a power outage. It was their problem all the time! I called back and canceled the ticket and told them what happened. Robert |
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#137
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Win7 support:
Robert in CA wrote:
On Sunday, July 14, 2019 at 9:52:14 PM UTC-7, Paul wrote: Robert in CA wrote: On Tuesday, July 9, 2019 at 6:20:02 AM UTC-7, Paul wrote: Robert in CA wrote: Also, it never asked me about Win 10 Pro but I see that it installed it on both the 8500 and 780. Robert Apparently, it's more clever than I am. It must be reading something about the licensing of the machine on its own. Windows 7 OEM would use a BIOS SLIC table. Maybe it can parse something from there, to figure out the SKU to use. Since you didn't do a Win10-over-Win7, it would not otherwise have a clue what was on the machine. If you entered the key from the COA at the key prompt, now *that* is a stronger clue for the installer. It's possible to "re-master" a Windows installer DVD and remove "ei.cfg", which is supposed to cause the menu of available OSes to appear. A recipe such as the one I showed you for "making a DVD smaller" would likely work, minus the DISM step. You'd extract the DVD contents, then use oscdimg.exe to make a new DVD. Once you'd removed ei.cfg from the folder holding the DVD contents, of course. Everything seems to be done at this point. Play with Windows 10 as you see fit. Test Classic Shell on it, if the interface bothers you or something :-) I use Windows 10, but I can't "surf in it all day long" or do personal stuff in it. For me right now, it's just an engine. Paul Today I tried to install the Windows 10 HD in the 780 but it only has one connector on the blue cable. http://i63.tinypic.com/255l26f.jpg So can I buy another cable with two connectors or am I limited to just one HD at a time? Where would I buy it? Newegg? Is this the data or power cable? What would I ask for? Thanks, Robert The power on the right, is already daisy-chained. Assuming you have the original supply in there, then the spacing would look like the picture. If you have a replacement supply in there, the connector to connector spacing can be different. It just means there's more slack cable between the two drive installs. ******* As far as the data cable is concerned, the blue part is a "Dell-ism" and you won't find that elsewhere. Whatever that long handle is for, other companies use a less fancy left-angle connector. The problem with a left-angle connector, is it can be a nuisance to take off. It's hard to get a grip on it. ******* There are both right angle (cable goes down) and left angle (cable goes up) data connectors. From the picture you show, you probably want this one. https://www.newegg.com/p/N82E16812123282 The straight end goes into the vertical motherboard connector. The angled part is for the drive. With your spare drive sitting in front of you, notice how the 7 contact data portion is "L-shaped". The L is for keying, so it only goes on one way. Now, using the magnifier view on the Newegg web page, eyeball how the left-angle, with the cable leading away in the upward direction, mates properly with the drive in its normal orientation (stick-on label facing upwards). It's by doing these test installs in your mind, that you get the correct cable on the first try. The cables without the metal jaw for retention, are suitable for a couple hundred insertions. The unadorned cables are a compression fit, but the connector will wear a bit and the normal force will go down with time, and they get a little loose. The cables with the metal jaw, fit tighter, but they can be slightly harder to get off too. If you plan on using the cables a great many times, until the connector is worn, the jaw helps hold things together a bit longer. In the Test Machine, I have four without jaws, and two with jaws, to give you some idea how arbitrary it is :-) Pick a length suitable for the job. Measure the current cable, and imagine in your mind how the new cable will be routed. It's a lot like picking shoe laces at the shoe store. It really helps to have an old lace in your hand for sizing. Paul Hmmmmmmmm I didn't think was going to be difficult. I don't know if it's the original PSU or not since I bought this refurbished from Staples. I guess I should have disconnected it and taken a picture of the end. The link you provided is that same as the one I have e.g. only (1) connection. Maybe I won't do this after all, I thought this was going to be easy so I could install the Win10 HD and be able to switch from Win7Pro or Win10 (to practice). As the saying goes if it isn't broke don't fix it. In passing, I lost my Internet connection Friday even though it showed I was connected on my end. I called my internet provider and I was on the phone for 3 hours with me doing most of the work and finally ended with them creating a ticket for the problem and I would have to wait a week before they came out. Not 20 minutes after the call everything connected like the lights coming back on after a power outage. It was their problem all the time! I called back and canceled the ticket and told them what happened. Robert I don't think it's hard to select a cable. You just have to eyeball the situation and pick a good size. If the cable is too long, then routing it is a problem (it'll look messy). If you got a 6 inch one, there's no way that would be good for anything. The 6 inch ones might work in a NUC or a miniITX maybe. The reason the angled ones exist, is the same reason window air conditioners have funny right-angle plugs on the end. To make the fit flush, so the door can close without crushing the cable. Paul |
#138
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Win7 support:
On Monday, July 15, 2019 at 3:49:23 AM UTC-7, Paul wrote:
Robert in CA wrote: On Sunday, July 14, 2019 at 9:52:14 PM UTC-7, Paul wrote: Robert in CA wrote: On Tuesday, July 9, 2019 at 6:20:02 AM UTC-7, Paul wrote: Robert in CA wrote: Also, it never asked me about Win 10 Pro but I see that it installed it on both the 8500 and 780. Robert Apparently, it's more clever than I am. It must be reading something about the licensing of the machine on its own. Windows 7 OEM would use a BIOS SLIC table. Maybe it can parse something from there, to figure out the SKU to use. Since you didn't do a Win10-over-Win7, it would not otherwise have a clue what was on the machine. If you entered the key from the COA at the key prompt, now *that* is a stronger clue for the installer. It's possible to "re-master" a Windows installer DVD and remove "ei.cfg", which is supposed to cause the menu of available OSes to appear. A recipe such as the one I showed you for "making a DVD smaller" would likely work, minus the DISM step. You'd extract the DVD contents, then use oscdimg.exe to make a new DVD. Once you'd removed ei.cfg from the folder holding the DVD contents, of course. Everything seems to be done at this point. Play with Windows 10 as you see fit. Test Classic Shell on it, if the interface bothers you or something :-) I use Windows 10, but I can't "surf in it all day long" or do personal stuff in it. For me right now, it's just an engine. Paul Today I tried to install the Windows 10 HD in the 780 but it only has one connector on the blue cable. http://i63.tinypic.com/255l26f.jpg So can I buy another cable with two connectors or am I limited to just one HD at a time? Where would I buy it? Newegg? Is this the data or power cable? What would I ask for? Thanks, Robert The power on the right, is already daisy-chained. Assuming you have the original supply in there, then the spacing would look like the picture. If you have a replacement supply in there, the connector to connector spacing can be different. It just means there's more slack cable between the two drive installs. ******* As far as the data cable is concerned, the blue part is a "Dell-ism" and you won't find that elsewhere. Whatever that long handle is for, other companies use a less fancy left-angle connector. The problem with a left-angle connector, is it can be a nuisance to take off. It's hard to get a grip on it. ******* There are both right angle (cable goes down) and left angle (cable goes up) data connectors. From the picture you show, you probably want this one. https://www.newegg.com/p/N82E16812123282 The straight end goes into the vertical motherboard connector. The angled part is for the drive. With your spare drive sitting in front of you, notice how the 7 contact data portion is "L-shaped". The L is for keying, so it only goes on one way. Now, using the magnifier view on the Newegg web page, eyeball how the left-angle, with the cable leading away in the upward direction, mates properly with the drive in its normal orientation (stick-on label facing upwards). It's by doing these test installs in your mind, that you get the correct cable on the first try. The cables without the metal jaw for retention, are suitable for a couple hundred insertions. The unadorned cables are a compression fit, but the connector will wear a bit and the normal force will go down with time, and they get a little loose. The cables with the metal jaw, fit tighter, but they can be slightly harder to get off too. If you plan on using the cables a great many times, until the connector is worn, the jaw helps hold things together a bit longer. In the Test Machine, I have four without jaws, and two with jaws, to give you some idea how arbitrary it is :-) Pick a length suitable for the job. Measure the current cable, and imagine in your mind how the new cable will be routed. It's a lot like picking shoe laces at the shoe store. It really helps to have an old lace in your hand for sizing. Paul Hmmmmmmmm I didn't think was going to be difficult. I don't know if it's the original PSU or not since I bought this refurbished from Staples. I guess I should have disconnected it and taken a picture of the end. The link you provided is that same as the one I have e.g. only (1) connection. Maybe I won't do this after all, I thought this was going to be easy so I could install the Win10 HD and be able to switch from Win7Pro or Win10 (to practice). As the saying goes if it isn't broke don't fix it. In passing, I lost my Internet connection Friday even though it showed I was connected on my end. I called my internet provider and I was on the phone for 3 hours with me doing most of the work and finally ended with them creating a ticket for the problem and I would have to wait a week before they came out. Not 20 minutes after the call everything connected like the lights coming back on after a power outage. It was their problem all the time! I called back and canceled the ticket and told them what happened. Robert I don't think it's hard to select a cable. You just have to eyeball the situation and pick a good size. If the cable is too long, then routing it is a problem (it'll look messy). If you got a 6 inch one, there's no way that would be good for anything. The 6 inch ones might work in a NUC or a miniITX maybe. The reason the angled ones exist, is the same reason window air conditioners have funny right-angle plugs on the end. To make the fit flush, so the door can close without crushing the cable. Paul Well, perhaps I will try again and open up the 780 and take pictures of the end of the data cable to show you but I obviously need two connectors not just the one to make this work. Here's a overall picture of the cables. http://i66.tinypic.com/2rggqd1.jpg Robert |
#139
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Win7 support:
Robert in CA wrote:
On Monday, July 15, 2019 at 3:49:23 AM UTC-7, Paul wrote: Robert in CA wrote: On Sunday, July 14, 2019 at 9:52:14 PM UTC-7, Paul wrote: Robert in CA wrote: On Tuesday, July 9, 2019 at 6:20:02 AM UTC-7, Paul wrote: Robert in CA wrote: Also, it never asked me about Win 10 Pro but I see that it installed it on both the 8500 and 780. Robert Apparently, it's more clever than I am. It must be reading something about the licensing of the machine on its own. Windows 7 OEM would use a BIOS SLIC table. Maybe it can parse something from there, to figure out the SKU to use. Since you didn't do a Win10-over-Win7, it would not otherwise have a clue what was on the machine. If you entered the key from the COA at the key prompt, now *that* is a stronger clue for the installer. It's possible to "re-master" a Windows installer DVD and remove "ei.cfg", which is supposed to cause the menu of available OSes to appear. A recipe such as the one I showed you for "making a DVD smaller" would likely work, minus the DISM step. You'd extract the DVD contents, then use oscdimg.exe to make a new DVD. Once you'd removed ei.cfg from the folder holding the DVD contents, of course. Everything seems to be done at this point. Play with Windows 10 as you see fit. Test Classic Shell on it, if the interface bothers you or something :-) I use Windows 10, but I can't "surf in it all day long" or do personal stuff in it. For me right now, it's just an engine. Paul Today I tried to install the Windows 10 HD in the 780 but it only has one connector on the blue cable. http://i63.tinypic.com/255l26f.jpg So can I buy another cable with two connectors or am I limited to just one HD at a time? Where would I buy it? Newegg? Is this the data or power cable? What would I ask for? Thanks, Robert The power on the right, is already daisy-chained. Assuming you have the original supply in there, then the spacing would look like the picture. If you have a replacement supply in there, the connector to connector spacing can be different. It just means there's more slack cable between the two drive installs. ******* As far as the data cable is concerned, the blue part is a "Dell-ism" and you won't find that elsewhere. Whatever that long handle is for, other companies use a less fancy left-angle connector. The problem with a left-angle connector, is it can be a nuisance to take off. It's hard to get a grip on it. ******* There are both right angle (cable goes down) and left angle (cable goes up) data connectors. From the picture you show, you probably want this one. https://www.newegg.com/p/N82E16812123282 The straight end goes into the vertical motherboard connector. The angled part is for the drive. With your spare drive sitting in front of you, notice how the 7 contact data portion is "L-shaped". The L is for keying, so it only goes on one way. Now, using the magnifier view on the Newegg web page, eyeball how the left-angle, with the cable leading away in the upward direction, mates properly with the drive in its normal orientation (stick-on label facing upwards). It's by doing these test installs in your mind, that you get the correct cable on the first try. The cables without the metal jaw for retention, are suitable for a couple hundred insertions. The unadorned cables are a compression fit, but the connector will wear a bit and the normal force will go down with time, and they get a little loose. The cables with the metal jaw, fit tighter, but they can be slightly harder to get off too. If you plan on using the cables a great many times, until the connector is worn, the jaw helps hold things together a bit longer. In the Test Machine, I have four without jaws, and two with jaws, to give you some idea how arbitrary it is :-) Pick a length suitable for the job. Measure the current cable, and imagine in your mind how the new cable will be routed. It's a lot like picking shoe laces at the shoe store. It really helps to have an old lace in your hand for sizing. Paul Hmmmmmmmm I didn't think was going to be difficult. I don't know if it's the original PSU or not since I bought this refurbished from Staples. I guess I should have disconnected it and taken a picture of the end. The link you provided is that same as the one I have e.g. only (1) connection. Maybe I won't do this after all, I thought this was going to be easy so I could install the Win10 HD and be able to switch from Win7Pro or Win10 (to practice). As the saying goes if it isn't broke don't fix it. In passing, I lost my Internet connection Friday even though it showed I was connected on my end. I called my internet provider and I was on the phone for 3 hours with me doing most of the work and finally ended with them creating a ticket for the problem and I would have to wait a week before they came out. Not 20 minutes after the call everything connected like the lights coming back on after a power outage. It was their problem all the time! I called back and canceled the ticket and told them what happened. Robert I don't think it's hard to select a cable. You just have to eyeball the situation and pick a good size. If the cable is too long, then routing it is a problem (it'll look messy). If you got a 6 inch one, there's no way that would be good for anything. The 6 inch ones might work in a NUC or a miniITX maybe. The reason the angled ones exist, is the same reason window air conditioners have funny right-angle plugs on the end. To make the fit flush, so the door can close without crushing the cable. Paul Well, perhaps I will try again and open up the 780 and take pictures of the end of the data cable to show you but I obviously need two connectors not just the one to make this work. Here's a overall picture of the cables. http://i66.tinypic.com/2rggqd1.jpg Robert Tinypic is throwing "error 503 Guru meditation" right now :-) It's tipped over. It's like the dialup modem era, all over again. Paul |
#140
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Win7 support:
On Mon, 15 Jul 2019 12:19:40 -0400, Paul
wrote: Well, perhaps I will try again and open up the 780 and take pictures of the end of the data cable to show you but I obviously need two connectors not just the one to make this work. Here's a overall picture of the cables. http://i66.tinypic.com/2rggqd1.jpg Robert Tinypic is throwing "error 503 Guru meditation" right now :-) It's tipped over. It's like the dialup modem era, all over again. I can get the pic with wget, but not with my browser ... He has 2 HD bays, with a 2 headed power cable (blue). So there's power. One bay is occupied. He only has two SATA data cables. One of which is on the HD, one on the CD/DVD. The motherboard only has 2 SATA slots(there's a ribbon there that might be hiding something, I could be wrong). So unless he unplugs that DVD and uses its data cable there is no way he can use 2 HDs. Buying a new data cable won't solve his problem. []'s -- Don't be evil - Google 2004 We have a new policy - Google 2012 |
#141
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Win7 support:
Shadow wrote:
On Mon, 15 Jul 2019 12:19:40 -0400, Paul wrote: Well, perhaps I will try again and open up the 780 and take pictures of the end of the data cable to show you but I obviously need two connectors not just the one to make this work. Here's a overall picture of the cables. http://i66.tinypic.com/2rggqd1.jpg Robert Tinypic is throwing "error 503 Guru meditation" right now :-) It's tipped over. It's like the dialup modem era, all over again. I can get the pic with wget, but not with my browser ... He has 2 HD bays, with a 2 headed power cable (blue). So there's power. One bay is occupied. He only has two SATA data cables. One of which is on the HD, one on the CD/DVD. The motherboard only has 2 SATA slots(there's a ribbon there that might be hiding something, I could be wrong). So unless he unplugs that DVD and uses its data cable there is no way he can use 2 HDs. Buying a new data cable won't solve his problem. []'s I see four SATAs here, and likely two are hidden from your view. https://img2.parts-people.com/products/C27VVa1.JPG ( https://www.parts-people.com/index.p...=item&id=21502 ) A cable with a straight end on that end, should work with the vertical connector. While the drive end could well be a "left-angle" connector. Paul |
#142
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Win7 support:
On Mon, 15 Jul 2019 15:06:09 -0400, Paul
wrote: Shadow wrote: On Mon, 15 Jul 2019 12:19:40 -0400, Paul wrote: Well, perhaps I will try again and open up the 780 and take pictures of the end of the data cable to show you but I obviously need two connectors not just the one to make this work. Here's a overall picture of the cables. http://i66.tinypic.com/2rggqd1.jpg Robert Tinypic is throwing "error 503 Guru meditation" right now :-) It's tipped over. It's like the dialup modem era, all over again. I can get the pic with wget, but not with my browser ... He has 2 HD bays, with a 2 headed power cable (blue). So there's power. One bay is occupied. He only has two SATA data cables. One of which is on the HD, one on the CD/DVD. The motherboard only has 2 SATA slots(there's a ribbon there that might be hiding something, I could be wrong). So unless he unplugs that DVD and uses its data cable there is no way he can use 2 HDs. Buying a new data cable won't solve his problem. []'s I see four SATAs here, and likely two are hidden from your view. https://img2.parts-people.com/products/C27VVa1.JPG You're right. I missed 2 (black and white). The focus in the photo was on the heatsink. His HD power cable is already in the right position to fit in. So he'll only need a SATA data cable. []'s ( https://www.parts-people.com/index.p...=item&id=21502 ) A cable with a straight end on that end, should work with the vertical connector. While the drive end could well be a "left-angle" connector. Paul -- Don't be evil - Google 2004 We have a new policy - Google 2012 |
#143
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Win7 support:
On Monday, July 15, 2019 at 9:19:43 AM UTC-7, Paul wrote:
Robert in CA wrote: On Monday, July 15, 2019 at 3:49:23 AM UTC-7, Paul wrote: Robert in CA wrote: On Sunday, July 14, 2019 at 9:52:14 PM UTC-7, Paul wrote: Robert in CA wrote: On Tuesday, July 9, 2019 at 6:20:02 AM UTC-7, Paul wrote: Robert in CA wrote: Also, it never asked me about Win 10 Pro but I see that it installed it on both the 8500 and 780. Robert Apparently, it's more clever than I am. It must be reading something about the licensing of the machine on its own. Windows 7 OEM would use a BIOS SLIC table. Maybe it can parse something from there, to figure out the SKU to use. Since you didn't do a Win10-over-Win7, it would not otherwise have a clue what was on the machine. If you entered the key from the COA at the key prompt, now *that* is a stronger clue for the installer. It's possible to "re-master" a Windows installer DVD and remove "ei.cfg", which is supposed to cause the menu of available OSes to appear. A recipe such as the one I showed you for "making a DVD smaller" would likely work, minus the DISM step. You'd extract the DVD contents, then use oscdimg.exe to make a new DVD. Once you'd removed ei.cfg from the folder holding the DVD contents, of course. Everything seems to be done at this point. Play with Windows 10 as you see fit. Test Classic Shell on it, if the interface bothers you or something :-) I use Windows 10, but I can't "surf in it all day long" or do personal stuff in it. For me right now, it's just an engine. Paul Today I tried to install the Windows 10 HD in the 780 but it only has one connector on the blue cable. http://i63.tinypic.com/255l26f.jpg So can I buy another cable with two connectors or am I limited to just one HD at a time? Where would I buy it? Newegg? Is this the data or power cable? What would I ask for? Thanks, Robert The power on the right, is already daisy-chained. Assuming you have the original supply in there, then the spacing would look like the picture. If you have a replacement supply in there, the connector to connector spacing can be different. It just means there's more slack cable between the two drive installs. ******* As far as the data cable is concerned, the blue part is a "Dell-ism" and you won't find that elsewhere. Whatever that long handle is for, other companies use a less fancy left-angle connector. The problem with a left-angle connector, is it can be a nuisance to take off. It's hard to get a grip on it. ******* There are both right angle (cable goes down) and left angle (cable goes up) data connectors. From the picture you show, you probably want this one. https://www.newegg.com/p/N82E16812123282 The straight end goes into the vertical motherboard connector. The angled part is for the drive. With your spare drive sitting in front of you, notice how the 7 contact data portion is "L-shaped". The L is for keying, so it only goes on one way. Now, using the magnifier view on the Newegg web page, eyeball how the left-angle, with the cable leading away in the upward direction, mates properly with the drive in its normal orientation (stick-on label facing upwards). It's by doing these test installs in your mind, that you get the correct cable on the first try. The cables without the metal jaw for retention, are suitable for a couple hundred insertions. The unadorned cables are a compression fit, but the connector will wear a bit and the normal force will go down with time, and they get a little loose. The cables with the metal jaw, fit tighter, but they can be slightly harder to get off too. If you plan on using the cables a great many times, until the connector is worn, the jaw helps hold things together a bit longer. In the Test Machine, I have four without jaws, and two with jaws, to give you some idea how arbitrary it is :-) Pick a length suitable for the job. Measure the current cable, and imagine in your mind how the new cable will be routed. It's a lot like picking shoe laces at the shoe store. It really helps to have an old lace in your hand for sizing. Paul Hmmmmmmmm I didn't think was going to be difficult. I don't know if it's the original PSU or not since I bought this refurbished from Staples. I guess I should have disconnected it and taken a picture of the end. The link you provided is that same as the one I have e.g. only (1) connection. Maybe I won't do this after all, I thought this was going to be easy so I could install the Win10 HD and be able to switch from Win7Pro or Win10 (to practice). As the saying goes if it isn't broke don't fix it. In passing, I lost my Internet connection Friday even though it showed I was connected on my end. I called my internet provider and I was on the phone for 3 hours with me doing most of the work and finally ended with them creating a ticket for the problem and I would have to wait a week before they came out. Not 20 minutes after the call everything connected like the lights coming back on after a power outage. It was their problem all the time! I called back and canceled the ticket and told them what happened. Robert I don't think it's hard to select a cable. You just have to eyeball the situation and pick a good size. If the cable is too long, then routing it is a problem (it'll look messy). If you got a 6 inch one, there's no way that would be good for anything. The 6 inch ones might work in a NUC or a miniITX maybe. The reason the angled ones exist, is the same reason window air conditioners have funny right-angle plugs on the end. To make the fit flush, so the door can close without crushing the cable. Paul Well, perhaps I will try again and open up the 780 and take pictures of the end of the data cable to show you but I obviously need two connectors not just the one to make this work. Here's a overall picture of the cables. http://i66.tinypic.com/2rggqd1.jpg Robert Tinypic is throwing "error 503 Guru meditation" right now :-) It's tipped over. It's like the dialup modem era, all over again. Paul I checked the tiny pic and it works for me. I still have no idea what kind or make of data cable to order? Robert |
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Win7 support:
Robert in CA wrote:
On Monday, July 15, 2019 at 9:19:43 AM UTC-7, Paul wrote: Robert in CA wrote: On Monday, July 15, 2019 at 3:49:23 AM UTC-7, Paul wrote: Robert in CA wrote: On Sunday, July 14, 2019 at 9:52:14 PM UTC-7, Paul wrote: Robert in CA wrote: On Tuesday, July 9, 2019 at 6:20:02 AM UTC-7, Paul wrote: Robert in CA wrote: Also, it never asked me about Win 10 Pro but I see that it installed it on both the 8500 and 780. Robert Apparently, it's more clever than I am. It must be reading something about the licensing of the machine on its own. Windows 7 OEM would use a BIOS SLIC table. Maybe it can parse something from there, to figure out the SKU to use. Since you didn't do a Win10-over-Win7, it would not otherwise have a clue what was on the machine. If you entered the key from the COA at the key prompt, now *that* is a stronger clue for the installer. It's possible to "re-master" a Windows installer DVD and remove "ei.cfg", which is supposed to cause the menu of available OSes to appear. A recipe such as the one I showed you for "making a DVD smaller" would likely work, minus the DISM step. You'd extract the DVD contents, then use oscdimg.exe to make a new DVD. Once you'd removed ei.cfg from the folder holding the DVD contents, of course. Everything seems to be done at this point. Play with Windows 10 as you see fit. Test Classic Shell on it, if the interface bothers you or something :-) I use Windows 10, but I can't "surf in it all day long" or do personal stuff in it. For me right now, it's just an engine. Paul Today I tried to install the Windows 10 HD in the 780 but it only has one connector on the blue cable. http://i63.tinypic.com/255l26f.jpg So can I buy another cable with two connectors or am I limited to just one HD at a time? Where would I buy it? Newegg? Is this the data or power cable? What would I ask for? Thanks, Robert The power on the right, is already daisy-chained. Assuming you have the original supply in there, then the spacing would look like the picture. If you have a replacement supply in there, the connector to connector spacing can be different. It just means there's more slack cable between the two drive installs. ******* As far as the data cable is concerned, the blue part is a "Dell-ism" and you won't find that elsewhere. Whatever that long handle is for, other companies use a less fancy left-angle connector. The problem with a left-angle connector, is it can be a nuisance to take off. It's hard to get a grip on it. ******* There are both right angle (cable goes down) and left angle (cable goes up) data connectors. From the picture you show, you probably want this one. https://www.newegg.com/p/N82E16812123282 The straight end goes into the vertical motherboard connector. The angled part is for the drive. With your spare drive sitting in front of you, notice how the 7 contact data portion is "L-shaped". The L is for keying, so it only goes on one way. Now, using the magnifier view on the Newegg web page, eyeball how the left-angle, with the cable leading away in the upward direction, mates properly with the drive in its normal orientation (stick-on label facing upwards). It's by doing these test installs in your mind, that you get the correct cable on the first try. The cables without the metal jaw for retention, are suitable for a couple hundred insertions. The unadorned cables are a compression fit, but the connector will wear a bit and the normal force will go down with time, and they get a little loose. The cables with the metal jaw, fit tighter, but they can be slightly harder to get off too. If you plan on using the cables a great many times, until the connector is worn, the jaw helps hold things together a bit longer. In the Test Machine, I have four without jaws, and two with jaws, to give you some idea how arbitrary it is :-) Pick a length suitable for the job. Measure the current cable, and imagine in your mind how the new cable will be routed. It's a lot like picking shoe laces at the shoe store. It really helps to have an old lace in your hand for sizing. Paul Hmmmmmmmm I didn't think was going to be difficult. I don't know if it's the original PSU or not since I bought this refurbished from Staples. I guess I should have disconnected it and taken a picture of the end. The link you provided is that same as the one I have e.g. only (1) connection. Maybe I won't do this after all, I thought this was going to be easy so I could install the Win10 HD and be able to switch from Win7Pro or Win10 (to practice). As the saying goes if it isn't broke don't fix it. In passing, I lost my Internet connection Friday even though it showed I was connected on my end. I called my internet provider and I was on the phone for 3 hours with me doing most of the work and finally ended with them creating a ticket for the problem and I would have to wait a week before they came out. Not 20 minutes after the call everything connected like the lights coming back on after a power outage. It was their problem all the time! I called back and canceled the ticket and told them what happened. Robert I don't think it's hard to select a cable. You just have to eyeball the situation and pick a good size. If the cable is too long, then routing it is a problem (it'll look messy). If you got a 6 inch one, there's no way that would be good for anything. The 6 inch ones might work in a NUC or a miniITX maybe. The reason the angled ones exist, is the same reason window air conditioners have funny right-angle plugs on the end. To make the fit flush, so the door can close without crushing the cable. Paul Well, perhaps I will try again and open up the 780 and take pictures of the end of the data cable to show you but I obviously need two connectors not just the one to make this work. Here's a overall picture of the cables. http://i66.tinypic.com/2rggqd1.jpg Robert Tinypic is throwing "error 503 Guru meditation" right now :-) It's tipped over. It's like the dialup modem era, all over again. Paul I checked the tiny pic and it works for me. I still have no idea what kind or make of data cable to order? Robert OK, see if this 24" one will route OK like the SATA data cable already in the hard drive section. It's a left angle and the cable goes "up" when it is plugged in. The photo has poor contrast, and it's hard to see the L shape. https://www.newegg.com/p/N82E16812123283 http://www.okgear.com/en/product/pro...ail.asp?id=508 Paul |
#145
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Win7 support:
On Monday, July 15, 2019 at 4:24:28 PM UTC-7, Paul wrote:
Robert in CA wrote: On Monday, July 15, 2019 at 9:19:43 AM UTC-7, Paul wrote: Robert in CA wrote: On Monday, July 15, 2019 at 3:49:23 AM UTC-7, Paul wrote: Robert in CA wrote: On Sunday, July 14, 2019 at 9:52:14 PM UTC-7, Paul wrote: Robert in CA wrote: On Tuesday, July 9, 2019 at 6:20:02 AM UTC-7, Paul wrote: Robert in CA wrote: Also, it never asked me about Win 10 Pro but I see that it installed it on both the 8500 and 780. Robert Apparently, it's more clever than I am. It must be reading something about the licensing of the machine on its own. Windows 7 OEM would use a BIOS SLIC table. Maybe it can parse something from there, to figure out the SKU to use. Since you didn't do a Win10-over-Win7, it would not otherwise have a clue what was on the machine. If you entered the key from the COA at the key prompt, now *that* is a stronger clue for the installer. It's possible to "re-master" a Windows installer DVD and remove "ei.cfg", which is supposed to cause the menu of available OSes to appear. A recipe such as the one I showed you for "making a DVD smaller" would likely work, minus the DISM step. You'd extract the DVD contents, then use oscdimg.exe to make a new DVD. Once you'd removed ei.cfg from the folder holding the DVD contents, of course. Everything seems to be done at this point. Play with Windows 10 as you see fit. Test Classic Shell on it, if the interface bothers you or something :-) I use Windows 10, but I can't "surf in it all day long" or do personal stuff in it. For me right now, it's just an engine. Paul Today I tried to install the Windows 10 HD in the 780 but it only has one connector on the blue cable. http://i63.tinypic.com/255l26f.jpg So can I buy another cable with two connectors or am I limited to just one HD at a time? Where would I buy it? Newegg? Is this the data or power cable? What would I ask for? Thanks, Robert The power on the right, is already daisy-chained. Assuming you have the original supply in there, then the spacing would look like the picture. If you have a replacement supply in there, the connector to connector spacing can be different. It just means there's more slack cable between the two drive installs. ******* As far as the data cable is concerned, the blue part is a "Dell-ism" and you won't find that elsewhere. Whatever that long handle is for, other companies use a less fancy left-angle connector. The problem with a left-angle connector, is it can be a nuisance to take off. It's hard to get a grip on it. ******* There are both right angle (cable goes down) and left angle (cable goes up) data connectors. From the picture you show, you probably want this one. https://www.newegg.com/p/N82E16812123282 The straight end goes into the vertical motherboard connector. The angled part is for the drive. With your spare drive sitting in front of you, notice how the 7 contact data portion is "L-shaped". The L is for keying, so it only goes on one way. Now, using the magnifier view on the Newegg web page, eyeball how the left-angle, with the cable leading away in the upward direction, mates properly with the drive in its normal orientation (stick-on label facing upwards). It's by doing these test installs in your mind, that you get the correct cable on the first try. The cables without the metal jaw for retention, are suitable for a couple hundred insertions. The unadorned cables are a compression fit, but the connector will wear a bit and the normal force will go down with time, and they get a little loose. The cables with the metal jaw, fit tighter, but they can be slightly harder to get off too. If you plan on using the cables a great many times, until the connector is worn, the jaw helps hold things together a bit longer. In the Test Machine, I have four without jaws, and two with jaws, to give you some idea how arbitrary it is :-) Pick a length suitable for the job. Measure the current cable, and imagine in your mind how the new cable will be routed. It's a lot like picking shoe laces at the shoe store. It really helps to have an old lace in your hand for sizing. Paul Hmmmmmmmm I didn't think was going to be difficult. I don't know if it's the original PSU or not since I bought this refurbished from Staples. I guess I should have disconnected it and taken a picture of the end. The link you provided is that same as the one I have e.g. only (1) connection. Maybe I won't do this after all, I thought this was going to be easy so I could install the Win10 HD and be able to switch from Win7Pro or Win10 (to practice). As the saying goes if it isn't broke don't fix it. In passing, I lost my Internet connection Friday even though it showed I was connected on my end. I called my internet provider and I was on the phone for 3 hours with me doing most of the work and finally ended with them creating a ticket for the problem and I would have to wait a week before they came out. Not 20 minutes after the call everything connected like the lights coming back on after a power outage. It was their problem all the time! I called back and canceled the ticket and told them what happened. Robert I don't think it's hard to select a cable. You just have to eyeball the situation and pick a good size. If the cable is too long, then routing it is a problem (it'll look messy). If you got a 6 inch one, there's no way that would be good for anything. The 6 inch ones might work in a NUC or a miniITX maybe. The reason the angled ones exist, is the same reason window air conditioners have funny right-angle plugs on the end. To make the fit flush, so the door can close without crushing the cable. Paul Well, perhaps I will try again and open up the 780 and take pictures of the end of the data cable to show you but I obviously need two connectors not just the one to make this work. Here's a overall picture of the cables. http://i66.tinypic.com/2rggqd1.jpg Robert Tinypic is throwing "error 503 Guru meditation" right now :-) It's tipped over. It's like the dialup modem era, all over again. Paul I checked the tiny pic and it works for me. I still have no idea what kind or make of data cable to order? Robert OK, see if this 24" one will route OK like the SATA data cable already in the hard drive section. It's a left angle and the cable goes "up" when it is plugged in. The photo has poor contrast, and it's hard to see the L shape. https://www.newegg.com/p/N82E16812123283 http://www.okgear.com/en/product/pro...ail.asp?id=508 Paul I see what you mean by the 'L' now.... I'll open the 780 up and have a look and take pics but the OKGear Sata cable still only (1) HD connection and we need (2). Robert |
#146
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Win7 support:
Robert in CA wrote:
I see what you mean by the 'L' now.... I'll open the 780 up and have a look and take pics but the OKGear Sata cable still only (1) HD connection and we need (2). Robert Your motherboard has four SATA connectors total, that I can see in a picture of the motherboard. The data cables have a *one-to-one* relationship. SATA1 --------------- HDD1 SATA2 --------------- HDD2 SATA3 --------------- Optical drive SATA4 --------------- Optical drive Therefore, we want a data cable with *one* connector on each end. Unlike the ribbon cable era, with two connectors on the end of the ribbon, SATA has only *one*. It's point to point, high speed serial. That's why the cable can be thin. ******* SATA does support FIS, which allows more than one drive to be put on a single cable. The standard supports up to 15 drives off one cable. The silicon available for this, supports 5 drives as a practical choice (from a bandwidth perspective). The hardware is a small box, which would not be a convenient formfactor for inside a PC. Mobo SATA --------- FIS ------ SATA1 Box ------ SATA2 ------ SATA3 ------ SATA4 ------ SATA5 The cables are *still* one-to-one. But the box handles "fan-out". It allows a motherboard with four SATA connectors, to support *20* drives total. I have yet to run into someone who has bought one of those boxes. I think the boxes were around $100 each when they were new. This shows the printed circuit board of a port multiplier. With the one chip that multiplexes things. These only work with FIS-capable SATA ports on other pieces of equipment. Not only do you have to look up and see whether your computer has that... but you also have to test that it really works. https://www.amazon.com/Misszhang-US-.../dp/B07NW7XD9Z When Port Multipliers first came out, they were packaged like this. http://www.satacable.com/cosapomubrso.html Paul |
#147
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Win7 support:
In message , Paul
writes: Robert in CA wrote: I see what you mean by the 'L' now.... I'll open the 780 up and have a look and take pics but the OKGear Sata cable still only (1) HD connection and we need (2). Robert Your motherboard has four SATA connectors total, that I can see in a picture of the motherboard. The data cables have a *one-to-one* relationship. SATA1 --------------- HDD1 SATA2 --------------- HDD2 SATA3 --------------- Optical drive SATA4 --------------- Optical drive Therefore, we want a data cable with *one* connector on each end. Unlike the ribbon cable era, with two connectors on the end of the ribbon, SATA has only *one*. It's point to point, high speed serial. That's why the cable can be thin. [] That's the _data_ cable of course. The _power_ cable _can_ be daisy-chained. The power connector is the one with _more_ pins. This is because someone took the - strange, to me - decision to use the same contacts in the power connector as in the data connector, so they had to double-up (I think triple for some of them) on the number of pins to get the current-carrying capacity. (On the old ribbon [(E)IDE] drives, where they used Molex connectors for the power, they were much bigger, so only needed the one contact per rail. Not that those were perfect, of course: their insertion force was high, and the extraction force required was phenomenal!) -- J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf Radio 4 is one of the reasons being British is good. It's not a subset of Britain - it's almost as if Britain is a subset of Radio 4. - Stephen Fry, in Radio Times, 7-13 June, 2003. |
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Win7 support:
On Tuesday, July 16, 2019 at 4:26:46 AM UTC-7, Paul wrote:
Robert in CA wrote: I see what you mean by the 'L' now.... I'll open the 780 up and have a look and take pics but the OKGear Sata cable still only (1) HD connection and we need (2). Robert Your motherboard has four SATA connectors total, that I can see in a picture of the motherboard. The data cables have a *one-to-one* relationship. SATA1 --------------- HDD1 SATA2 --------------- HDD2 SATA3 --------------- Optical drive SATA4 --------------- Optical drive Therefore, we want a data cable with *one* connector on each end. Unlike the ribbon cable era, with two connectors on the end of the ribbon, SATA has only *one*. It's point to point, high speed serial. That's why the cable can be thin. ******* SATA does support FIS, which allows more than one drive to be put on a single cable. The standard supports up to 15 drives off one cable. The silicon available for this, supports 5 drives as a practical choice (from a bandwidth perspective). The hardware is a small box, which would not be a convenient formfactor for inside a PC. Mobo SATA --------- FIS ------ SATA1 Box ------ SATA2 ------ SATA3 ------ SATA4 ------ SATA5 The cables are *still* one-to-one. But the box handles "fan-out". It allows a motherboard with four SATA connectors, to support *20* drives total. I have yet to run into someone who has bought one of those boxes. I think the boxes were around $100 each when they were new. This shows the printed circuit board of a port multiplier. With the one chip that multiplexes things. These only work with FIS-capable SATA ports on other pieces of equipment. Not only do you have to look up and see whether your computer has that... but you also have to test that it really works. https://www.amazon.com/Misszhang-US-.../dp/B07NW7XD9Z When Port Multipliers first came out, they were packaged like this. http://www.satacable.com/cosapomubrso.html Paul Oh, I get it now,.. here are some pics of the end of the cable. https://postimg.cc/Cz488RDY https://postimg.cc/CzDgr8JT https://postimg.cc/JHH55MNm https://postimg.cc/5YTw0TZr Robert |
#149
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Win7 support:
Robert in CA wrote:
On Tuesday, July 16, 2019 at 4:26:46 AM UTC-7, Paul wrote: Robert in CA wrote: I see what you mean by the 'L' now.... I'll open the 780 up and have a look and take pics but the OKGear Sata cable still only (1) HD connection and we need (2). Robert Your motherboard has four SATA connectors total, that I can see in a picture of the motherboard. The data cables have a *one-to-one* relationship. SATA1 --------------- HDD1 SATA2 --------------- HDD2 SATA3 --------------- Optical drive SATA4 --------------- Optical drive Therefore, we want a data cable with *one* connector on each end. Unlike the ribbon cable era, with two connectors on the end of the ribbon, SATA has only *one*. It's point to point, high speed serial. That's why the cable can be thin. ******* SATA does support FIS, which allows more than one drive to be put on a single cable. The standard supports up to 15 drives off one cable. The silicon available for this, supports 5 drives as a practical choice (from a bandwidth perspective). The hardware is a small box, which would not be a convenient formfactor for inside a PC. Mobo SATA --------- FIS ------ SATA1 Box ------ SATA2 ------ SATA3 ------ SATA4 ------ SATA5 The cables are *still* one-to-one. But the box handles "fan-out". It allows a motherboard with four SATA connectors, to support *20* drives total. I have yet to run into someone who has bought one of those boxes. I think the boxes were around $100 each when they were new. This shows the printed circuit board of a port multiplier. With the one chip that multiplexes things. These only work with FIS-capable SATA ports on other pieces of equipment. Not only do you have to look up and see whether your computer has that... but you also have to test that it really works. https://www.amazon.com/Misszhang-US-.../dp/B07NW7XD9Z When Port Multipliers first came out, they were packaged like this. http://www.satacable.com/cosapomubrso.html Paul Oh, I get it now,.. here are some pics of the end of the cable. https://postimg.cc/Cz488RDY https://postimg.cc/CzDgr8JT https://postimg.cc/JHH55MNm https://postimg.cc/5YTw0TZr Robert It occurs to me, that the drives are upside-down in the dual rack area. When I hold a drive right-side-up (label upwards), the power connector is on the left. In your pictures, the daisy chained power cable is on the right. So the drives must be upside-down for that current cabling scheme to work. Compare this right-angle cable to yours. Check the length, leave enough slack to reach the other two motherboard SATA connectors. Since the drive seems upside-down, it's probably a right-angle connector. https://www.newegg.com/red-startech-...82E16812200048 Paul |
#150
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Win7 support:
On Tuesday, July 16, 2019 at 10:01:01 AM UTC-7, Paul wrote:
Robert in CA wrote: On Tuesday, July 16, 2019 at 4:26:46 AM UTC-7, Paul wrote: Robert in CA wrote: I see what you mean by the 'L' now.... I'll open the 780 up and have a look and take pics but the OKGear Sata cable still only (1) HD connection and we need (2). Robert Your motherboard has four SATA connectors total, that I can see in a picture of the motherboard. The data cables have a *one-to-one* relationship. SATA1 --------------- HDD1 SATA2 --------------- HDD2 SATA3 --------------- Optical drive SATA4 --------------- Optical drive Therefore, we want a data cable with *one* connector on each end. Unlike the ribbon cable era, with two connectors on the end of the ribbon, SATA has only *one*. It's point to point, high speed serial. That's why the cable can be thin. ******* SATA does support FIS, which allows more than one drive to be put on a single cable. The standard supports up to 15 drives off one cable. The silicon available for this, supports 5 drives as a practical choice (from a bandwidth perspective). The hardware is a small box, which would not be a convenient formfactor for inside a PC. Mobo SATA --------- FIS ------ SATA1 Box ------ SATA2 ------ SATA3 ------ SATA4 ------ SATA5 The cables are *still* one-to-one. But the box handles "fan-out". It allows a motherboard with four SATA connectors, to support *20* drives total. I have yet to run into someone who has bought one of those boxes. I think the boxes were around $100 each when they were new. This shows the printed circuit board of a port multiplier. With the one chip that multiplexes things. These only work with FIS-capable SATA ports on other pieces of equipment. Not only do you have to look up and see whether your computer has that... but you also have to test that it really works. https://www.amazon.com/Misszhang-US-.../dp/B07NW7XD9Z When Port Multipliers first came out, they were packaged like this. http://www.satacable.com/cosapomubrso.html Paul Oh, I get it now,.. here are some pics of the end of the cable. https://postimg.cc/Cz488RDY https://postimg.cc/CzDgr8JT https://postimg.cc/JHH55MNm https://postimg.cc/5YTw0TZr Robert It occurs to me, that the drives are upside-down in the dual rack area. When I hold a drive right-side-up (label upwards), the power connector is on the left. In your pictures, the daisy chained power cable is on the right. So the drives must be upside-down for that current cabling scheme to work. Compare this right-angle cable to yours. Check the length, leave enough slack to reach the other two motherboard SATA connectors. Since the drive seems upside-down, it's probably a right-angle connector. https://www.newegg.com/red-startech-...82E16812200048 Paul 24 inches seems the right length but I'll open it up again and and get a approximate measurement to make sure. Where on the motherboard am I'm plugging this in? For example to the right of the Intel chip? or is it along the edge where the blue and orange cable are plugged in? Thanks, Robert |
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