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#1
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TV stick with audio description?
(Note this post is crossposted to 3 'groups.)
Does anyone know of a USB-type TV receiver stick (for terrestrial, i. e. FreeView) - or, at a pinch, additional software - that decodes AD (audio description)? This is for use in the UK, though I don't know if the same AD is used in any other countries. (I know France uses compatible FreeView, but I don't know if that extends to AD.) -- J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G.5AL-IS-P--Ch++(p)Ar@T0H+Sh0!:`)DNAf "quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur". ("Anything is more impressive if you say it in Latin") |
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#3
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TV stick with audio description?
On 18/06/2012 08:00, Brian Gaff wrote:
I asked this a few weeks ago and was greeted by the sort ogf response you normally get from the RNiB when they have no clue what you are on about. At the moment it ssems to be the Panasonic TVs, Samart Talk or the TVonics PVR all with speech. I would say though that many do suggest to me that these pen interface type tuners are pretty grotty in the signal side and thus not a lot of good.. I'm sure some do have AD built in though I'd not know if the operating software is accessible. Brian surely it's down to the software rather than the tuner? - simply a case of switching to a second audio stream. -- Gareth. That fly.... Is your magic wand. |
#4
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TV stick with audio description?
"the dog from that film you saw" wrote in message ... On 18/06/2012 08:00, Brian Gaff wrote: I asked this a few weeks ago and was greeted by the sort ogf response you normally get from the RNiB when they have no clue what you are on about. At the moment it ssems to be the Panasonic TVs, Samart Talk or the TVonics PVR all with speech. I would say though that many do suggest to me that these pen interface type tuners are pretty grotty in the signal side and thus not a lot of good.. I'm sure some do have AD built in though I'd not know if the operating software is accessible. Brian surely it's down to the software rather than the tuner? - simply a case of switching to a second audio stream. -- Gareth. That fly.... Is your magic wand. If the underlying reception is bad then the AD may become broken in the same way that the main signal can result in broken dialogue and "blocking" of the picture. |
#5
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TV stick with audio description?
In message , Graham Harrison
writes: "the dog from that film you saw" wrote in message ... On 18/06/2012 08:00, Brian Gaff wrote: I asked this a few weeks ago and was greeted by the sort ogf response you normally get from the RNiB when they have no clue what you are on about. At Yes, I remember you asking. the moment it ssems to be the Panasonic TVs, Samart Talk or the TVonics PVR all with speech. Yes, but it seems a bit unfortunate if a blind person has to buy one of the more expensive TVs, or a PVR, just to get AD, when USB TV sticks cost from about 15 to 80 pounds; also, it's not as portable as a laptop plus USB stick. I would say though that many do suggest to me that these pen interface type tuners are pretty grotty in the signal side and thus not a lot of good.. Well, from my limited experience, they're not too bad when used with an external aerial - and I'm hoping they'll improve after digital switchover, when the digital signal will be turned up, in most cases by a factor of ten (10 dB). I'm sure some do have AD built in though I'd not know if the operating software is accessible. From, again, my limited experience (just three models), it's pretty not so: I suppose designers of TV-delivering software don't see the visually impaired as their primary target customers! Though one of those three is the one used by one of my blind friends, who does manage to use it. [] surely it's down to the software rather than the tuner? - simply a case of switching to a second audio stream. I think even for sighted me, getting one tuner's software to work with another tuner would be no minor task: I wouldn't really know where to begin. I guess the Linux world might have different views, but for we Windows users ... -- Gareth. That fly.... Is your magic wand. If the underlying reception is bad then the AD may become broken in the same way that the main signal can result in broken dialogue and "blocking" of the picture. Indeed. I'm hoping this will improve with the rise in signal strength. -- J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G.5AL-IS-P--Ch++(p)Ar@T0H+Sh0!:`)DNAf "... all your hard work in the hands of twelve people too stupid to get off jury duty." CSI, 200x |
#6
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TV stick with audio description?
J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
Well, from my limited experience, they're not too bad when used with an external aerial - and I'm hoping they'll improve after digital switchover, when the digital signal will be turned up, in most cases by a factor of ten (10 dB). If only this were true. I've lost most of my stations. Only a couple come in regularly, and one fads in and out. I probably have about 25% of what was available when it was analog. And I live in the city. Paul |
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TV stick with audio description?
On Mon, 18 Jun 2012 23:26:41 -0400, Paul wrote:
J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote: Well, from my limited experience, they're not too bad when used with an external aerial - and I'm hoping they'll improve after digital switchover, when the digital signal will be turned up, in most cases by a factor of ten (10 dB). If only this were true. I've lost most of my stations. Only a couple come in regularly, and one fads in and out. I probably have about 25% of what was available when it was analog. And I live in the city. In my (American) city, we went from 6 analog Standard Def 4:3 channels that no one in my house ever watched, to 33 digital channels, most of which are either High Def 1080i or 720p 16:9 format. We dumped Comcast and went 100% OTA. Signal strength hasn't been a problem, but I'm in the suburbs and only about 30 miles from the transmitters. I use one of those little 7" UHF loops for an antenna, tossed behind the entertainment center. -- Char Jackson |
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TV stick with audio description?
In message , Paul
writes: J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote: Well, from my limited experience, they're not too bad when used with an external aerial - and I'm hoping they'll improve after digital switchover, when the digital signal will be turned up, in most cases by a factor of ten (10 dB). If only this were true. I've lost most of my stations. Only a couple come in regularly, and one fads in and out. I probably have about 25% of what was available when it was analog. And I live in the city. Paul I take it you're not in the UK? -- J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G.5AL-IS-P--Ch++(p)Ar@T0H+Sh0!:`)DNAf We would rightly be dismayed if the rest of the world saw Britain solely as a nation of paedophiles and knife-wielding teenagers ruled by a gang of corrupt politicians who dispatch young men and women to die in foreign battlefields while old people are perishing from hypothermia in small flats that they can't afford to heat. But from an African viewpoint, that is precisely the kind of distortion that the western media ... not that we've told lies, but that, by omission, we've obscured the truth. Jonathan Dimbleby, in Radio Times 29 May - 4 June 2010 |
#9
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TV stick with audio description?
J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
In message , Paul writes: J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote: Well, from my limited experience, they're not too bad when used with an external aerial - and I'm hoping they'll improve after digital switchover, when the digital signal will be turned up, in most cases by a factor of ten (10 dB). If only this were true. I've lost most of my stations. Only a couple come in regularly, and one fads in and out. I probably have about 25% of what was available when it was analog. And I live in the city. Paul I take it you're not in the UK? No, in Canada. For our transition, the government provided no financial support. It cost the industry around 400-500 million to make the transition. The claim at the time, was some of the TV stations would keep the analog transmitter (use the same channel and everything), but one of the stations making that claim, seems to have disappeared entirely. In our country, this transition was handled in as brain-dead a manner as possible. I was concerned my sister, in a rural area, wouldn't have any service at all, but it's possible her reception and mine, are about the same. I have a two bay antenna I was using during the analog era. I can solve the problem with one of these. I built this antenna last year, but it needs a rotator to be practical. It sits stored in a box right now. (It was actually built for someone else.) Gain and directionality go hand in hand, and to get off-axis stations, you need a rotator. My stations cluster in two groups, separated by a 120 degree angle. The intended installation site for this antenna, is at a site where all stations are clustered on the same hilltop (no need to rotate). http://clients.teksavvy.com/~nickm/g..._9V7_15u0.html (When someone in the US built one, it looked like this.) http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/7...oorversion.gif (This is my attic version of the same antenna. 50ft of 1/4" copper tubing. Freestanding, on its base. Probably over $100 in parts, including the purchase of a 12" long 1/4" drill bit. Workmanship = not very good. I had to cut some of the plastic pieces several times, due to the need to drill the holes so precisely. Big fail on the drilling. Drilling was done with a hand drill, with a home made "drill press" built to hold the electric drill upright. To make the zig-zag section, the copper tube is cut in sections, then soldered, to make nice sharp corners of defined electrical length. Inside the copper tubing, is a 14 gauge piece of solid copper wire, which holds the tubing together while you're soldering it.) http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/2...ticversion.gif That antenna has gain, outside the range the simulation claimed, so I guess we'll chalk that up to bad workmanship. It still has significant gain at channel 65, and it shouldn't. The idea for me, was never to spend a fortune on this transition. Our set top boxes were not subsidized by the government. No coupons. So you pay full price for each one. And as a "techie", I'd hoped the baloney about the old antenna being good enough, was true. But it isn't. Paul |
#10
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TV stick with audio description?
That is true of the sat side, but for freeview you need to have a mix of
normal and the ad stream as I understand it. The very earliest freeview tuners had the ability to switch but you lost the normal sound when you did so. Brian -- -- From the sofa of Brian Gaff - Blind user, so no pictures please! "the dog from that film you saw" wrote in message ... On 18/06/2012 08:00, Brian Gaff wrote: I asked this a few weeks ago and was greeted by the sort ogf response you normally get from the RNiB when they have no clue what you are on about. At the moment it ssems to be the Panasonic TVs, Samart Talk or the TVonics PVR all with speech. I would say though that many do suggest to me that these pen interface type tuners are pretty grotty in the signal side and thus not a lot of good.. I'm sure some do have AD built in though I'd not know if the operating software is accessible. Brian surely it's down to the software rather than the tuner? - simply a case of switching to a second audio stream. -- Gareth. That fly.... Is your magic wand. |
#11
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TV stick with audio description?
Might I point out to those replying to the thread in the broadcast group
that this thread is mainly meant for blind users and is also cross posted to a blind users newsgroup. We do have many issues with software where the writers do not actually bother to include calls to any form of API to allow access technology to talk to us about the state of menus buttons etc, which makes it difficult to know up front if any software driven solution will work for us. Its always a suck it and see situation for us. As I mentioned in my last message to these thread, I'm pretty certain that the AD channel in freeview only carries AD not the program sound, so this is a very important point when looking at the usability. Brian -- -- From the sofa of Brian Gaff - Blind user, so no pictures please! "J. P. Gilliver (John)" wrote in message ... In message , Graham Harrison writes: "the dog from that film you saw" wrote in message ... On 18/06/2012 08:00, Brian Gaff wrote: I asked this a few weeks ago and was greeted by the sort ogf response you normally get from the RNiB when they have no clue what you are on about. At Yes, I remember you asking. the moment it ssems to be the Panasonic TVs, Samart Talk or the TVonics PVR all with speech. Yes, but it seems a bit unfortunate if a blind person has to buy one of the more expensive TVs, or a PVR, just to get AD, when USB TV sticks cost from about 15 to 80 pounds; also, it's not as portable as a laptop plus USB stick. I would say though that many do suggest to me that these pen interface type tuners are pretty grotty in the signal side and thus not a lot of good.. Well, from my limited experience, they're not too bad when used with an external aerial - and I'm hoping they'll improve after digital switchover, when the digital signal will be turned up, in most cases by a factor of ten (10 dB). I'm sure some do have AD built in though I'd not know if the operating software is accessible. From, again, my limited experience (just three models), it's pretty not so: I suppose designers of TV-delivering software don't see the visually impaired as their primary target customers! Though one of those three is the one used by one of my blind friends, who does manage to use it. [] surely it's down to the software rather than the tuner? - simply a case of switching to a second audio stream. I think even for sighted me, getting one tuner's software to work with another tuner would be no minor task: I wouldn't really know where to begin. I guess the Linux world might have different views, but for we Windows users ... -- Gareth. That fly.... Is your magic wand. If the underlying reception is bad then the AD may become broken in the same way that the main signal can result in broken dialogue and "blocking" of the picture. Indeed. I'm hoping this will improve with the rise in signal strength. -- J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G.5AL-IS-P--Ch++(p)Ar@T0H+Sh0!:`)DNAf "... all your hard work in the hands of twelve people too stupid to get off jury duty." CSI, 200x |
#12
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TV stick with audio description?
In the us though things are somewhat different. But this is going of on a
bit of a tangent. Brian -- -- From the sofa of Brian Gaff - Blind user, so no pictures please! "Char Jackson" wrote in message ... On Mon, 18 Jun 2012 23:26:41 -0400, Paul wrote: J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote: Well, from my limited experience, they're not too bad when used with an external aerial - and I'm hoping they'll improve after digital switchover, when the digital signal will be turned up, in most cases by a factor of ten (10 dB). If only this were true. I've lost most of my stations. Only a couple come in regularly, and one fads in and out. I probably have about 25% of what was available when it was analog. And I live in the city. In my (American) city, we went from 6 analog Standard Def 4:3 channels that no one in my house ever watched, to 33 digital channels, most of which are either High Def 1080i or 720p 16:9 format. We dumped Comcast and went 100% OTA. Signal strength hasn't been a problem, but I'm in the suburbs and only about 30 miles from the transmitters. I use one of those little 7" UHF loops for an antenna, tossed behind the entertainment center. -- Char Jackson |
#13
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TV stick with audio description?
The problem here is interference from other freeview transmitters that have
also been turned up. I need to be very careful with aerials or I get repeat statiions but others missing on both a netgem and goodmans box. the best place for the aerial here is inside the roof aimed at the local transmitter, If itts in the clear it picks up relays and when there is any kind of lift on all kinds of other transmitters that ruins the quality of the wanted ones. I mean I'm only a few miles from Crystal Palace, so what the heck goes on is anyyones guess. I have to run with an attenuator most of the time. Brian -- -- From the sofa of Brian Gaff - Blind user, so no pictures please! "J. P. Gilliver (John)" wrote in message ... In message , Paul writes: J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote: Well, from my limited experience, they're not too bad when used with an external aerial - and I'm hoping they'll improve after digital switchover, when the digital signal will be turned up, in most cases by a factor of ten (10 dB). If only this were true. I've lost most of my stations. Only a couple come in regularly, and one fads in and out. I probably have about 25% of what was available when it was analog. And I live in the city. Paul I take it you're not in the UK? -- J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G.5AL-IS-P--Ch++(p)Ar@T0H+Sh0!:`)DNAf We would rightly be dismayed if the rest of the world saw Britain solely as a nation of paedophiles and knife-wielding teenagers ruled by a gang of corrupt politicians who dispatch young men and women to die in foreign battlefields while old people are perishing from hypothermia in small flats that they can't afford to heat. But from an African viewpoint, that is precisely the kind of distortion that the western media ... not that we've told lies, but that, by omission, we've obscured the truth. Jonathan Dimbleby, in Radio Times 29 May - 4 June 2010 |
#14
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TV stick with audio description?
It often makes me laugh how countries cannot actually get this stuff right.
I wonder what happened to if it aint broke dont fix it? An element of the kings new clothes about all this. Interestingly digital sat conversion seems to have been actually successful, at least in Europe. Brian -- -- From the sofa of Brian Gaff - Blind user, so no pictures please! "Paul" wrote in message ... J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote: In message , Paul writes: J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote: Well, from my limited experience, they're not too bad when used with an external aerial - and I'm hoping they'll improve after digital switchover, when the digital signal will be turned up, in most cases by a factor of ten (10 dB). If only this were true. I've lost most of my stations. Only a couple come in regularly, and one fads in and out. I probably have about 25% of what was available when it was analog. And I live in the city. Paul I take it you're not in the UK? No, in Canada. For our transition, the government provided no financial support. It cost the industry around 400-500 million to make the transition. The claim at the time, was some of the TV stations would keep the analog transmitter (use the same channel and everything), but one of the stations making that claim, seems to have disappeared entirely. In our country, this transition was handled in as brain-dead a manner as possible. I was concerned my sister, in a rural area, wouldn't have any service at all, but it's possible her reception and mine, are about the same. I have a two bay antenna I was using during the analog era. I can solve the problem with one of these. I built this antenna last year, but it needs a rotator to be practical. It sits stored in a box right now. (It was actually built for someone else.) Gain and directionality go hand in hand, and to get off-axis stations, you need a rotator. My stations cluster in two groups, separated by a 120 degree angle. The intended installation site for this antenna, is at a site where all stations are clustered on the same hilltop (no need to rotate). http://clients.teksavvy.com/~nickm/g..._9V7_15u0.html (When someone in the US built one, it looked like this.) http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/7...oorversion.gif (This is my attic version of the same antenna. 50ft of 1/4" copper tubing. Freestanding, on its base. Probably over $100 in parts, including the purchase of a 12" long 1/4" drill bit. Workmanship = not very good. I had to cut some of the plastic pieces several times, due to the need to drill the holes so precisely. Big fail on the drilling. Drilling was done with a hand drill, with a home made "drill press" built to hold the electric drill upright. To make the zig-zag section, the copper tube is cut in sections, then soldered, to make nice sharp corners of defined electrical length. Inside the copper tubing, is a 14 gauge piece of solid copper wire, which holds the tubing together while you're soldering it.) http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/2...ticversion.gif That antenna has gain, outside the range the simulation claimed, so I guess we'll chalk that up to bad workmanship. It still has significant gain at channel 65, and it shouldn't. The idea for me, was never to spend a fortune on this transition. Our set top boxes were not subsidized by the government. No coupons. So you pay full price for each one. And as a "techie", I'd hoped the baloney about the old antenna being good enough, was true. But it isn't. Paul |
#15
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TV stick with audio description?
Brian Gaff wrote:
I'm pretty certain that the AD channel in freeview only carries AD not the program sound, so this is a very important point when looking at the usability. Yes, you've going to need some software that plays both the normal audio stream and the audio description stream, maybe evel lets you set their relative volume, but it is a software issue, nothing to do with the tuner. A USB tuner is unlikely to even offer hardware filtering of the different audio/video/subtitle/epg streams within the mux, unlike a PCI card tuner. |
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