(OT) Windows 8 touch screens

The other day I was in Walmart and was playing with the demos on Win8.
While I would not even want a touch screen, which reminds me too much of
a cellphone, I got to thinking abotu the screens. To begin, I'm a
farmer, and my hands are very calloused and rough, especially in winter.
I have literally worn thru the keys, especially the space bar on several
keyboards, leaving a hole in the middle of the space bar.

If I was using a touch screen, wouldn't the screen actually wear out.
leaving a hard to see screen, adn possibly a hole worn in it eventually?
And even for people who dont have rough hands, dont the screen get all
smudged from the oil in skin and dirt? I just think a touch screen is a
really stupid idea.

I imagine a special monitor would be needed to use the touch screen
features, not just my standard LCD or CRT monitors.

I suppose those smart phones get all scuffed too, but people seem to
replace the whole phone long before they die, to keep up with the latest
gadgets. That's what I seee anyhow. Myself, I only have a simple
phone. It dials calls, and sends text. That's all it does, and that is
all I want.

PS. there was one thing I noticed on one of those demos. In IE, there
is something that puts blue dots all over the page. When I touched the
screen, it turned to all different colors and patterns. Although
useless, it was kind of cool to watch....

wrote:
The other day I was in Walmart and was playing with the demos on Win8.
While I would not even want a touch screen, which reminds me too much of
a cellphone, I got to thinking abotu the screens. To begin, I'm a
farmer, and my hands are very calloused and rough, especially in winter.
I have literally worn thru the keys, especially the space bar on several
keyboards, leaving a hole in the middle of the space bar.

If I was using a touch screen, wouldn't the screen actually wear out.
leaving a hard to see screen, adn possibly a hole worn in it eventually?
And even for people who dont have rough hands, dont the screen get all
smudged from the oil in skin and dirt? I just think a touch screen is a
really stupid idea.

I imagine a special monitor would be needed to use the touch screen
features, not just my standard LCD or CRT monitors.

I suppose those smart phones get all scuffed too, but people seem to
replace the whole phone long before they die, to keep up with the latest
gadgets. That's what I seee anyhow. Myself, I only have a simple
phone. It dials calls, and sends text. That's all it does, and that is
all I want.

PS. there was one thing I noticed on one of those demos. In IE, there
is something that puts blue dots all over the page. When I touched the
screen, it turned to all different colors and patterns. Although
useless, it was kind of cool to watch....


They talk of the Surface Pro using Gorilla Glass (Corning).

http://www.surfaceforums.net/forum/m...ype-cover.html

"Gorilla Glass 3 with Native Damage Resistance enables improved
damage resistance and toughness. This new glass composition
helps prevent the deep scratches that can lead to glass failure.
The result is improved scratch resistance, reduced scratch visibility
and improved retained strength if a scratch occurs."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gorilla_glass

"During its manufacture, Gorilla Glass is toughened by ion exchange.
The material is submersed in molten potassium salt at a temperature
of approximately 400C, whereby smaller sodium ions leave the glass
to be replaced by larger potassium ions from the salt bath. The
larger ions occupy more space and are pressed together when the glass
cools, causing potassium ions to diffuse far into the surface, thereby
creating a 'surface' layer of high compressive stress deep into the
glass, a layer more resistant to damage from everyday use."

In the first thread, it's obviously not that scratch resistant.

http://www.engadget.com/2013/02/05/m...ce-pro-review/

"Thankfully, Microsoft saw fit to fix that particular issue with
the inclusion of a stylus, which uses Wacom tech and offers
1,024 degrees of pressure-sensitivity -- just like the
Samsung Galaxy Note II."

So there are some kinds of alternatives to greasy finger prints.
I doubt the stylus can do gestures all that well, but at least
a finger is not the only option. Maybe you can swipe with the
stylus, but you won't be emulating any "ten point touch"
operations with it. Microsoft developers have this goofy
idea that complex gestures will be all the rage. It turns out
(from previous experience with this), that humans usually
latch onto a couple simple gestures (like a gesture that
closes a window), and use such a gesture a lot. While
more obscure gestures, the user tries them so seldom, they
have to look them up to remember what you're supposed to do.
It doesn't take too many gestures, before you start to
confuse them in your head. Whereas some people can memorize and
recall a hundred different hot key combos.

Paul

On Tue, 11 Mar 2014 02:16:49 -0600, wrote:

The other day I was in Walmart and was playing with the demos on Win8.
While I would not even want a touch screen, which reminds me too much of
a cellphone, I got to thinking abotu the screens. To begin, I'm a
farmer, and my hands are very calloused and rough, especially in winter.
I have literally worn thru the keys, especially the space bar on several
keyboards, leaving a hole in the middle of the space bar.

If I was using a touch screen, wouldn't the screen actually wear out.
leaving a hard to see screen, adn possibly a hole worn in it eventually?

Well I guess so, if you've worn out the space key!

And even for people who dont have rough hands, dont the screen get all
smudged from the oil in skin and dirt?

That's why I don't want one.

I just think a touch screen is a
really stupid idea.

I imagine a special monitor would be needed to use the touch screen
features, not just my standard LCD or CRT monitors.

Maybe, but I hear the cell phone makers are resisting a law t hat would
require them to put a disable function into cell phones, so thieves
couldn't use them. They like the current system, where thieves steal
cell phones and people have to buy replacements.

I suppose those smart phones get all scuffed too, but people seem to
replace the whole phone long before they die, to keep up with the latest
gadgets. That's what I seee anyhow. Myself, I only have a simple

I think so. Today I think it was, the judge on the People's Court
ridiculed someone's phone because it was only an iPhone 3 and had a
somewhat smaller screen.

phone. It dials calls, and sends text. That's all it does, and that is
all I want.

I've never sent a text. Don't plan to unless I get in some legal
dispute with someone.

PS. there was one thing I noticed on one of those demos. In IE, there
is something that puts blue dots all over the page. When I touched the
screen, it turned to all different colors and patterns. Although
useless, it was kind of cool to watch....

I don't know. Are you sure you don't have something contagious.

On Tue, 11 Mar 2014 06:08:17 -0400, micky
wrote:

Maybe, but I hear the cell phone makers are resisting a law t hat would
require them to put a disable function into cell phones, so thieves
couldn't use them. They like the current system, where thieves steal
cell phones and people have to buy replacements.

That can work two ways. About 5 years ago, I found what looked to be a
fairly costly smart phone. I was travelling at the time, so finding the
cops was not something I wanted to mess with. I just tossed the phone
in my car and decided that when I had time, I'd get inside of it, find
some contacts, and call one that seemed to be a relative (such as Mom,
dad, etc). Well, the phone was password protected, so I could not get
into it. Thus, I never found the owner, so I saved the battery and
threw the phone in the garbage.

I suppose those smart phones get all scuffed too, but people seem to
replace the whole phone long before they die, to keep up with the latest
gadgets. That's what I seee anyhow. Myself, I only have a simple

I think so. Today I think it was, the judge on the People's Court
ridiculed someone's phone because it was only an iPhone 3 and had a
somewhat smaller screen.

Some of these young kids these days MUST have the latest of everything.
I'm old, and I actually like older stuff better, it's easier to use.
Win98 is much easier to use than XP, for example.

phone. It dials calls, and sends text. That's all it does, and that is
all I want.

I've never sent a text. Don't plan to unless I get in some legal
dispute with someone.

I never thought I'd use texts, until I found out how they work. I
absolutely hate playing phone tag. While sometimes I can leave a
voicemail, some phones dont have that option, and have to keep calling
the person over and over. Also, I wont call someone at 3am and wake
them up. but I can send a text anytime of day or night without
disturbing the person. I can say "I'm sick and wont be able to meet you
tomorrow", then go to bed and not have to wake up to call them during
"normal" hours. Or I can text a friend who lives in a rural area and
has poor cell service (which is normal where I live). While I cant
maintain a good enough signal to leave a voicemail, or actually speak to
them, I can leave a text, which they will see as soon as they get a
reasonable signal. On top of that, the cost to send or get a text is
1/4th the cost to call, per minute. And my phone is prepaid, so that
saves money. However, it's slow to type one on a phone that dont have a
full keyboard. But I just make them small. EX: Im sick - cant meet u
tomarrow"

On 3/11/2014 6:13 AM, wrote:
I never thought I'd use texts, until I found out how they work. I
absolutely hate playing phone tag. While sometimes I can leave a
voicemail, some phones dont have that option, and have to keep calling
the person over and over. Also, I wont call someone at 3am and wake
them up. but I can send a text anytime of day or night without
disturbing the person. I can say "I'm sick and wont be able to meet you
tomorrow", then go to bed and not have to wake up to call them during
"normal" hours. Or I can text a friend who lives in a rural area and
has poor cell service (which is normal where I live). While I cant
maintain a good enough signal to leave a voicemail, or actually speak to
them, I can leave a text, which they will see as soon as they get a
reasonable signal. On top of that, the cost to send or get a text is
1/4th the cost to call, per minute. And my phone is prepaid, so that
saves money. However, it's slow to type one on a phone that dont have a
full keyboard. But I just make them small. EX: Im sick - cant meet u
tomarrow"

Did you know you can send text from a computer online? Plus my Palm
machines (later models) can communicate with Bluetooth enabled phones.
And my Palms I could use a keyboard and send it to my phone and then the
phone sends it out.

--
Bill
Dell Latitude Slate Tablet 128GB SSD ('12 era) - Thunderbird v24.3.0
Intel Atom Z670 1.5GHz - 2GB RAM - Windows 8 Pro

On 3/11/2014 3:16 AM, wrote:
The other day I was in Walmart and was playing with the demos on Win8.
While I would not even want a touch screen, which reminds me too much of
a cellphone, I got to thinking abotu the screens. To begin, I'm a
farmer, and my hands are very calloused and rough, especially in winter.
I have literally worn thru the keys, especially the space bar on several
keyboards, leaving a hole in the middle of the space bar.

If I was using a touch screen, wouldn't the screen actually wear out.
leaving a hard to see screen, adn possibly a hole worn in it eventually?
And even for people who dont have rough hands, dont the screen get all
smudged from the oil in skin and dirt? I just think a touch screen is a
really stupid idea.

I imagine a special monitor would be needed to use the touch screen
features, not just my standard LCD or CRT monitors.

I suppose those smart phones get all scuffed too, but people seem to
replace the whole phone long before they die, to keep up with the latest
gadgets. That's what I seee anyhow. Myself, I only have a simple
phone. It dials calls, and sends text. That's all it does, and that is
all I want.

Well I have been using touch screens since 2000. And you are right
somewhat. As manufactures know about these shortcomings and has made
some changes. Plus there are screen protectors out there that also
tackle these problems.

This touch screen I am using right now for example, is made from Corning
Gorilla Glass. Which is pretty darn hard. I seem to recall it has a
hardness of 8. So it takes something just as hard or harder to scratch
it. And I have hard two of these since December of 2012 and not a single
scratch on them yet.

And I too live on a farm and my hands tends to get rough too. But it
isn't a problem with those tough screens. Fingerprints? I think that
depends on the individual. Some people don't produce a lot of oil on
their hands. And I have a habit that I am trying to break of excessive
hand washing. So I rarely leave fingerprints. Although for others, some
screen protectors are really tough to leave prints anyway. So that is
another option. Also screen protectors also protect screens from
scratches. I use them on screens with softer surfaces.

--
Bill
Dell Latitude Slate Tablet 128GB SSD ('12 era) - Thunderbird v24.3.0
Intel Atom Z670 1.5GHz - 2GB RAM - Windows 8 Pro

BillW50 wrote:

Did you know you can send text from a computer online? Plus my Palm
machines (later models) can communicate with Bluetooth enabled phones.
And my Palms I could use a keyboard and send it to my phone and then the
phone sends it out.


Here's how you text from your computer. You put the following into your *to*
email address and then the text in the body.

Sprint
Verizon
T-Mobile
AT&T
Virgin Mobile
Cingular
Nextel
US Cellular
Boost
Alltel


where xxxxxxxxxx = your full 10 digit phone number


AT&T:
Qwest:
T-Mobile:
Verizon:
Sprint: or
Virgin Mobile:
Nextel:
Alltel:
Metro PCS:
Powertel:
Boost Mobile:
Suncom:
Tracfone:
U.S. Cellular:

On 3/11/2014 8:18 AM, Henry wrote:
BillW50 wrote:

Did you know you can send text from a computer online? Plus my Palm
machines (later models) can communicate with Bluetooth enabled phones.
And my Palms I could use a keyboard and send it to my phone and then
the phone sends it out.

Here's how you text from your computer. You put the following into your
*to* email address and then the text in the body.

Sprint
Verizon
T-Mobile
AT&T
Virgin Mobile
Cingular
Nextel
US Cellular
Boost
Alltel


where xxxxxxxxxx = your full 10 digit phone number


AT&T:
Qwest:
T-Mobile:
Verizon:
Sprint: or
Virgin Mobile:
Nextel:
Alltel:
Metro PCS:
Powertel:
Boost Mobile:
Suncom:
Tracfone:
U.S. Cellular:

Wow! Nice list Henry, you're the man! Also if you use one of those
instant messenger programs, most of them can send text messages to a
phone too. I think most of them, all you do is add a plus before the
phone number to the "to" part and then send.

--
Bill
Dell Latitude Slate Tablet 128GB SSD ('12 era) - Thunderbird v24.3.0
Intel Atom Z670 1.5GHz - 2GB RAM - Windows 8 Pro

On Tue, 11 Mar 2014 05:13:03 -0600, wrote:

On Tue, 11 Mar 2014 06:08:17 -0400, micky
wrote:

Maybe, but I hear the cell phone makers are resisting a law t hat would
require them to put a disable function into cell phones, so thieves
couldn't use them. They like the current system, where thieves steal
cell phones and people have to buy replacements.

That can work two ways. About 5 years ago, I found what looked to be a
fairly costly smart phone. I was travelling at the time, so finding the
cops was not something I wanted to mess with. I just tossed the phone
in my car and decided that when I had time, I'd get inside of it, find
some contacts, and call one that seemed to be a relative (such as Mom,
dad, etc). Well, the phone was password protected, so I could not get
into it. Thus, I never found the owner, so I saved the battery and
threw the phone in the garbage.

I see your point.

Once during lunch, I found an address book in NYC, about 4 x 6 x 3/4" on
the top of an open public trash basket. I think the owner had her name
in it, but no number, so I looked for something -- didn't think to look
under M for mother, she should know that number by heart -- and found a
dentist. I called him and told the secretary the story and her name,
and she gave me the woman's work number. I called her and she thanked
me and got my name and work address. She worked for a publishing
company, and later that day a messenger arrived, with 2 new trade
paperbacks (the bigger ones that deal with serious topics) to thank me,
and the messenger took the address book back to her, He may have worked
directly for the publishing company, or not. There are a lot of
messengers in NYC. There are even 2 or 3 or more companies in
Baltimore.

Apparently she'd left it in a cab and the cab driver cleaned out his cab
and just threw it away. I'm a little surprised he didn't turn it in at
the end of the day.

The dentist's secretery wasn't suspicious at all, and the woman had her
book back the same day she lost it. . And there was no password
protection.

I suppose those smart phones get all scuffed too, but people seem to
replace the whole phone long before they die, to keep up with the latest
gadgets. That's what I seee anyhow. Myself, I only have a simple

I think so. Today I think it was, the judge on the People's Court
ridiculed someone's phone because it was only an iPhone 3 and had a
somewhat smaller screen.

Some of these young kids these days MUST have the latest of everything.
I'm old, and I actually like older stuff better, it's easier to use.
Win98 is much easier to use than XP, for example.

phone. It dials calls, and sends text. That's all it does, and that is
all I want.

I've never sent a text. Don't plan to unless I get in some legal
dispute with someone.

I never thought I'd use texts, until I found out how they work. I
absolutely hate playing phone tag. While sometimes I can leave a
voicemail, some phones dont have that option, and have to keep calling

A lot of people I call have phone *machines* but the rest have
voicemail.

the person over and over. Also, I wont call someone at 3am and wake
them up. but I can send a text anytime of day or night without

Then I use email.

disturbing the person. I can say "I'm sick and wont be able to meet you
tomorrow", then go to bed and not have to wake up to call them during
"normal" hours. Or I can text a friend who lives in a rural area and
has poor cell service (which is normal where I live). While I cant
maintain a good enough signal to leave a voicemail, or actually speak to
them, I can leave a text, which they will see as soon as they get a
reasonable signal. On top of that, the cost to send or get a text is
1/4th the cost to call, per minute. And my phone is prepaid, so that

So is mine. I forget what texts cost.

saves money. However, it's slow to type one on a phone that dont have a
full keyboard.

There is a way to send texts from the computer to a phone. Just google
it. I forget if they charge money. I almost did it once, but didn't.
I forget why.

But I just make them small. EX: Im sick - cant meet u
tomarrow"

You haven't won me over.

On Tue, 11 Mar 2014 08:18:34 -0500, Henry wrote:

BillW50 wrote:

Did you know you can send text from a computer online? Plus my Palm
machines (later models) can communicate with Bluetooth enabled phones.
And my Palms I could use a keyboard and send it to my phone and then the
phone sends it out.


Here's how you text from your computer. You put the following into your *to*
email address and then the text in the body.

Whatever I found when I googled wasn't nearly this simple. Thanks.

Sprint
Verizon
T-Mobile
AT&T
Virgin Mobile
Cingular
Nextel
US Cellular
Boost
Alltel


where xxxxxxxxxx = your full 10 digit phone number


AT&T:
Qwest:
T-Mobile:
Verizon:
Sprint: or
Virgin Mobile:
Nextel:
Alltel:
Metro PCS:
Powertel:
Boost Mobile:
Suncom:
Tracfone:
U.S. Cellular:

I'm known to be dense. What is the difference between the first and
second half of this, except the second half has more companies? Are
they just two lists of the same thing, one list better than the other?

On 3/11/2014 3:47 AM, Paul wrote:
[...]
"Thankfully, Microsoft saw fit to fix that particular issue with
the inclusion of a stylus, which uses Wacom tech and offers
1,024 degrees of pressure-sensitivity -- just like the
Samsung Galaxy Note II."

Actually Wacom has been used in Windows tablets for many years now.
Probably 10+ at least. And Wacom always had pressure sensitivity. I also
know Wacom was used in the Compaq Concerto (Windows 3.1 '93 era).
Although I don't think that one had pressure sensitivity.

So there are some kinds of alternatives to greasy finger prints.
I doubt the stylus can do gestures all that well, but at least
a finger is not the only option. Maybe you can swipe with the
stylus, but you won't be emulating any "ten point touch"
operations with it. Microsoft developers have this goofy
idea that complex gestures will be all the rage. It turns out
(from previous experience with this), that humans usually
latch onto a couple simple gestures (like a gesture that
closes a window), and use such a gesture a lot. While
more obscure gestures, the user tries them so seldom, they
have to look them up to remember what you're supposed to do.
It doesn't take too many gestures, before you start to
confuse them in your head. Whereas some people can memorize and
recall a hundred different hot key combos.

There are many different ways to do touch screens. Just to name two
popular methods are resistive and capacitive. And capacitive is the one
most often used. Either one will work with your finger or a stylus (you
need the right type). Finger-driven capacitive screens do not currently
support pressure input.

Wacom usually doesn't use either, but uses electromagnetic resonance and
uses 531kHz. This method only works with a stylus that works by resonant
inductive coupling to the stylus. Since the stylus is charged from the
screen EMR, it requires no battery. Wacom did try to have both
electromagnetic resonance and touch (resistive I think) at one point
like 2005 or so. But they were having manufacturing problems combining
the two. But they did have just touch (instead of electromagnetic
resonance) and I purchased one with XP on it to play around. Nowadays I
guess they have both finally working together.

This Dell uses N-trig instead of Wacom. It works with touch and/or a
stylus. Although the stylus requires an AAAA battery (no typo) and mine
seems to last a year. And the N-trig driver always you to use stylus
only, touch only, touch except when it detects a stylus, and both.

When I use a tablet, I generally prefer stylus only rather than touch.
As touch means you can't even touch the tablet with your hand, thumb or
anything without registering. Stylus only you can rest your palm or hand
it to somebody else and no worry about touching something and it acts on
it. That happens a lot with touch.

--
Bill
Dell Latitude Slate Tablet 128GB SSD ('12 era) - Thunderbird v24.3.0
Intel Atom Z670 1.5GHz - 2GB RAM - Windows 8 Pro

On 3/11/2014 2:10 PM, BillW50 wrote:
There are many different ways to do touch screens. Just to name two
popular methods are resistive and capacitive. And capacitive is the one
most often used. Either one will work with your finger or a stylus (you
need the right type). Finger-driven capacitive screens do not currently
support pressure input.

Wacom usually doesn't use either, but uses electromagnetic resonance and
uses 531kHz. This method only works with a stylus that works by resonant
inductive coupling to the stylus. Since the stylus is charged from the
screen EMR, it requires no battery. Wacom did try to have both
electromagnetic resonance and touch (resistive I think) at one point
like 2005 or so. But they were having manufacturing problems combining
the two. But they did have just touch (instead of electromagnetic
resonance) and I purchased one with XP on it to play around. Nowadays I
guess they have both finally working together.

This Dell uses N-trig instead of Wacom. It works with touch and/or a
stylus. Although the stylus requires an AAAA battery (no typo) and mine
seems to last a year. And the N-trig driver always you to use stylus
only, touch only, touch except when it detects a stylus, and both.

When I use a tablet, I generally prefer stylus only rather than touch.
As touch means you can't even touch the tablet with your hand, thumb or
anything without registering. Stylus only you can rest your palm or hand
it to somebody else and no worry about touching something and it acts on
it. That happens a lot with touch.

I forget to mention that both Wacom and N-trig stylus also detect
stylus' hovering. Meaning what most call the mouse pointer follows the
stylus hovering and movement to within an inch or so of the screen. I
never had seen either resistive or capacitive stylus do this yet.
Although I don't know how the N-trig stylus works, so maybe it might be
one or the other.

--
Bill
Dell Latitude Slate Tablet 128GB SSD ('12 era) - Thunderbird v24.3.0
Intel Atom Z670 1.5GHz - 2GB RAM - Windows 8 Pro