Strange File Sharing Problem

I had a two machine LAN (all XP Pro) which operated symmetrically, i.e. each
machine could access the "Shares" given the by the other. I added a third XP
Pro machine and created two new shares for folders on that machine.

The problem is that, while both old machines can access the shares on the
new machine, the new machine can access the shares on only **one** of the old
machines!!

All machines have a "node type" of "unknown".

I have tried everything I can think of (including running the Create Small
Business Network wizard on all three machines.)

This asymmetric behavior strikes me as being bizarre.

I would be very grateful if some kind soul would please help me identify and
solve the problem which, BTW, is driving me "over the hill."

Can the new machine see the shares on the problem old one, i.e. what do you
mean by can't access? Any message when you try?

Are these computers using simple file sharing or standard?
--

"Steve Behman" wrote in message
...
I had a two machine LAN (all XP Pro) which operated symmetrically, i.e.
each
machine could access the "Shares" given the by the other. I added a third
XP
Pro machine and created two new shares for folders on that machine.

The problem is that, while both old machines can access the shares on the
new machine, the new machine can access the shares on only **one** of the
old
machines!!

All machines have a "node type" of "unknown".

I have tried everything I can think of (including running the Create Small
Business Network wizard on all three machines.)

This asymmetric behavior strikes me as being bizarre.

I would be very grateful if some kind soul would please help me identify
and
solve the problem which, BTW, is driving me "over the hill."

Can the new machine see the shares on the problem old one, i.e. what do you
mean by can't access? Any message when you try?

Are these computers using simple file sharing or standard?
--

"Steve Behman" wrote in message
...
I had a two machine LAN (all XP Pro) which operated symmetrically, i.e.
each
machine could access the "Shares" given the by the other. I added a third
XP
Pro machine and created two new shares for folders on that machine.

The problem is that, while both old machines can access the shares on the
new machine, the new machine can access the shares on only **one** of the
old
machines!!

All machines have a "node type" of "unknown".

I have tried everything I can think of (including running the Create Small
Business Network wizard on all three machines.)

This asymmetric behavior strikes me as being bizarre.

I would be very grateful if some kind soul would please help me identify
and
solve the problem which, BTW, is driving me "over the hill."

1) Both of the old machines

"GTS" wrote:

Can the new machine see the shares on the problem old one, i.e. what do you
mean by can't access? Any message when you try?

Are these computers using simple file sharing or standard?
--


Thank you very much for your response. This is what I can tell you:

1) Both of the old machines see the shares on each other the shares on the
new machine. The new machine can see the shares on one of the old machines
but not on the other.

2) I have no idea of the difference between simple file sharing or standard
filesharing nor do I have any idea of how either is selected or is identified
(on a given machine.) I presume, because of your question, that this
selection is a critical element to the solution of my problem. If you tell me
how to identify which of these is present on each machine I will find out and
post it immediately!

Again thanks,

1) Both of the old machines

"GTS" wrote:

Can the new machine see the shares on the problem old one, i.e. what do you
mean by can't access? Any message when you try?

Are these computers using simple file sharing or standard?
--


Thank you very much for your response. This is what I can tell you:

1) Both of the old machines see the shares on each other the shares on the
new machine. The new machine can see the shares on one of the old machines
but not on the other.

2) I have no idea of the difference between simple file sharing or standard
filesharing nor do I have any idea of how either is selected or is identified
(on a given machine.) I presume, because of your question, that this
selection is a critical element to the solution of my problem. If you tell me
how to identify which of these is present on each machine I will find out and
post it immediately!

Again thanks,

Please pardon the garble on my response to your reply to me. I am physically
impaired and use both a screen reader and a speech to text program. The
results are not always predicable :-)

Please pardon the garble on my response to your reply to me. I am physically
impaired and use both a screen reader and a speech to text program. The
results are not always predicable :-)

.. I am sorry that I gave you an incomplete response to your question about
errors and messages.

The new machine shows the shares on itself and one of the old machines. That
having been said, when I look at the "Microsoft Windows Network" on the new
machine it shows the workgroup name but attempts to expand the workgroup it
gives a message to the effect that it cannot access the workgroup, possibly
due to insufficient permissions. Both of the old machines show all the
members of the workgroup.

It is particularly strange that it will not show the name of the old machine
for which it shows and, subsequently uses, the shares.

I hope that this fully answers your questions,

.. I am sorry that I gave you an incomplete response to your question about
errors and messages.

The new machine shows the shares on itself and one of the old machines. That
having been said, when I look at the "Microsoft Windows Network" on the new
machine it shows the workgroup name but attempts to expand the workgroup it
gives a message to the effect that it cannot access the workgroup, possibly
due to insufficient permissions. Both of the old machines show all the
members of the workgroup.

It is particularly strange that it will not show the name of the old machine
for which it shows and, subsequently uses, the shares.

I hope that this fully answers your questions,

Steve Behman wrote:

. I am sorry that I gave you an incomplete response to your question about
errors and messages.

The new machine shows the shares on itself and one of the old machines.
That having been said, when I look at the "Microsoft Windows Network" on
the new machine it shows the workgroup name but attempts to expand the
workgroup it gives a message to the effect that it cannot access the
workgroup, possibly due to insufficient permissions. Both of the old
machines show all the members of the workgroup.

It is particularly strange that it will not show the name of the old
machine for which it shows and, subsequently uses, the shares.

I hope that this fully answers your questions,

Probably Items C and D below.

Problems sharing files between computers on a network are generally caused by
1) a misconfigured firewall or overlooked firewall (including a stateful
firewall in a VPN); or 2) inadvertently running two firewalls such as the
built-in Windows Firewall and a third-party firewall; and/or 3) not having
identical user accounts and passwords on all Workgroup machines; 4) trying
to create shares where the operating system does not permit it.

A. Configure firewalls on all machines to allow the Local Area Network (LAN)
traffic as trusted. With Windows Firewall, this means allowing File/Printer
Sharing on the Exceptions tab. Normally running the Network Setup Wizard on
XP will take care of this for those machines.The only "gotcha" is that this
will turn on the XPSP2 Windows Firewall. If you aren't running a third-party
firewall or have an antivirus/security program with its own firewall
component, then you're fine. With third-party firewalls, I usually configure
the LAN allowance with an IP range. Ex. would be 192.168.1.0-192.168.1.254.
Obviously you would substitute your correct subnet. Refer to any third party
security program's Help or user forums for how to properly configure its
firewall. Do not run more than one firewall. DO NOT TURN OFF FIREWALLS;
CONFIGURE THEM CORRECTLY.

B. For ease of organization, put all computers in the same Workgroup. This
is done from the System applet in Control Panel, Computer Name tab.

C. Create matching user accounts and passwords on all machines. You do not
need to be logged into the same account on all machines and the passwords
assigned to each user account can be different; the accounts/passwords just
need to exist and match on all machines. DO NOT NEGLECT TO CREATE PASSWORDS,
EVEN IF ONLY SIMPLE ONES. If you wish a machine to boot directly to the
Desktop (into one particular user's account) for convenience, you can do
this:

XP - Configure Windows to Automatically Login (MVP Ramesh) -
http://windowsxp.mvps.org/Autologon.htm

D. If one or more of the computers is XP Pro or Media Center, turn off Simple
File Sharing (Folder OptionsView tab).

Malke
--
MS-MVP
Elephant Boy Computers - Don't Panic!
http://www.elephantboycomputers.com/#FAQ

Steve Behman wrote:

. I am sorry that I gave you an incomplete response to your question about
errors and messages.

The new machine shows the shares on itself and one of the old machines.
That having been said, when I look at the "Microsoft Windows Network" on
the new machine it shows the workgroup name but attempts to expand the
workgroup it gives a message to the effect that it cannot access the
workgroup, possibly due to insufficient permissions. Both of the old
machines show all the members of the workgroup.

It is particularly strange that it will not show the name of the old
machine for which it shows and, subsequently uses, the shares.

I hope that this fully answers your questions,

Probably Items C and D below.

Problems sharing files between computers on a network are generally caused by
1) a misconfigured firewall or overlooked firewall (including a stateful
firewall in a VPN); or 2) inadvertently running two firewalls such as the
built-in Windows Firewall and a third-party firewall; and/or 3) not having
identical user accounts and passwords on all Workgroup machines; 4) trying
to create shares where the operating system does not permit it.

A. Configure firewalls on all machines to allow the Local Area Network (LAN)
traffic as trusted. With Windows Firewall, this means allowing File/Printer
Sharing on the Exceptions tab. Normally running the Network Setup Wizard on
XP will take care of this for those machines.The only "gotcha" is that this
will turn on the XPSP2 Windows Firewall. If you aren't running a third-party
firewall or have an antivirus/security program with its own firewall
component, then you're fine. With third-party firewalls, I usually configure
the LAN allowance with an IP range. Ex. would be 192.168.1.0-192.168.1.254.
Obviously you would substitute your correct subnet. Refer to any third party
security program's Help or user forums for how to properly configure its
firewall. Do not run more than one firewall. DO NOT TURN OFF FIREWALLS;
CONFIGURE THEM CORRECTLY.

B. For ease of organization, put all computers in the same Workgroup. This
is done from the System applet in Control Panel, Computer Name tab.

C. Create matching user accounts and passwords on all machines. You do not
need to be logged into the same account on all machines and the passwords
assigned to each user account can be different; the accounts/passwords just
need to exist and match on all machines. DO NOT NEGLECT TO CREATE PASSWORDS,
EVEN IF ONLY SIMPLE ONES. If you wish a machine to boot directly to the
Desktop (into one particular user's account) for convenience, you can do
this:

XP - Configure Windows to Automatically Login (MVP Ramesh) -
http://windowsxp.mvps.org/Autologon.htm

D. If one or more of the computers is XP Pro or Media Center, turn off Simple
File Sharing (Folder OptionsView tab).

Malke
--
MS-MVP
Elephant Boy Computers - Don't Panic!
http://www.elephantboycomputers.com/#FAQ

Malke, thanks for your response. In reaction to it I did the following:

1) I disconnected one of the the old computers from the router -- the one
that could access all of the shares on both the other old system and the new
system.

2) I checked both of the remaining computers to ensure that both had "Simple
Sharing" and the "Windows Firewall" turned off. That left the McAfee Firewall
turned on both the remaining old machine (hereafter called the "old machine")
and the new machine.

3) When viewing "My Network Places" on the old machine it showed the same
Workgroup to which all machines were/are joined to and expanded to the three
Machines Names. However, doing the same thing on the new machine the attempt
to expand the workgroup failed in the same way as originally described.

I think that I checked everything you mentioned and set them in accordance
with your instructions. The problem persists!

Is it possible that turning on "simple sharing" on all of the shared folders
(on both machines) will fix my problem or will it compound it?

"Malke" wrote:

Steve Behman wrote:

. I am sorry that I gave you an incomplete response to your question about
errors and messages.

The new machine shows the shares on itself and one of the old machines.
That having been said, when I look at the "Microsoft Windows Network" on
the new machine it shows the workgroup name but attempts to expand the
workgroup it gives a message to the effect that it cannot access the
workgroup, possibly due to insufficient permissions. Both of the old
machines show all the members of the workgroup.

It is particularly strange that it will not show the name of the old
machine for which it shows and, subsequently uses, the shares.

I hope that this fully answers your questions,

Probably Items C and D below.

Problems sharing files between computers on a network are generally caused by
1) a misconfigured firewall or overlooked firewall (including a stateful
firewall in a VPN); or 2) inadvertently running two firewalls such as the
built-in Windows Firewall and a third-party firewall; and/or 3) not having
identical user accounts and passwords on all Workgroup machines; 4) trying
to create shares where the operating system does not permit it.

A. Configure firewalls on all machines to allow the Local Area Network (LAN)
traffic as trusted. With Windows Firewall, this means allowing File/Printer
Sharing on the Exceptions tab. Normally running the Network Setup Wizard on
XP will take care of this for those machines.The only "gotcha" is that this
will turn on the XPSP2 Windows Firewall. If you aren't running a third-party
firewall or have an antivirus/security program with its own firewall
component, then you're fine. With third-party firewalls, I usually configure
the LAN allowance with an IP range. Ex. would be 192.168.1.0-192.168.1.254.
Obviously you would substitute your correct subnet. Refer to any third party
security program's Help or user forums for how to properly configure its
firewall. Do not run more than one firewall. DO NOT TURN OFF FIREWALLS;
CONFIGURE THEM CORRECTLY.

B. For ease of organization, put all computers in the same Workgroup. This
is done from the System applet in Control Panel, Computer Name tab.

C. Create matching user accounts and passwords on all machines. You do not
need to be logged into the same account on all machines and the passwords
assigned to each user account can be different; the accounts/passwords just
need to exist and match on all machines. DO NOT NEGLECT TO CREATE PASSWORDS,
EVEN IF ONLY SIMPLE ONES. If you wish a machine to boot directly to the
Desktop (into one particular user's account) for convenience, you can do
this:

XP - Configure Windows to Automatically Login (MVP Ramesh) -
http://windowsxp.mvps.org/Autologon.htm

D. If one or more of the computers is XP Pro or Media Center, turn off Simple
File Sharing (Folder OptionsView tab).

Malke
--
MS-MVP
Elephant Boy Computers - Don't Panic!
http://www.elephantboycomputers.com/#FAQ

Malke, thanks for your response. In reaction to it I did the following:

1) I disconnected one of the the old computers from the router -- the one
that could access all of the shares on both the other old system and the new
system.

2) I checked both of the remaining computers to ensure that both had "Simple
Sharing" and the "Windows Firewall" turned off. That left the McAfee Firewall
turned on both the remaining old machine (hereafter called the "old machine")
and the new machine.

3) When viewing "My Network Places" on the old machine it showed the same
Workgroup to which all machines were/are joined to and expanded to the three
Machines Names. However, doing the same thing on the new machine the attempt
to expand the workgroup failed in the same way as originally described.

I think that I checked everything you mentioned and set them in accordance
with your instructions. The problem persists!

Is it possible that turning on "simple sharing" on all of the shared folders
(on both machines) will fix my problem or will it compound it?

"Malke" wrote:

Steve Behman wrote:

. I am sorry that I gave you an incomplete response to your question about
errors and messages.

The new machine shows the shares on itself and one of the old machines.
That having been said, when I look at the "Microsoft Windows Network" on
the new machine it shows the workgroup name but attempts to expand the
workgroup it gives a message to the effect that it cannot access the
workgroup, possibly due to insufficient permissions. Both of the old
machines show all the members of the workgroup.

It is particularly strange that it will not show the name of the old
machine for which it shows and, subsequently uses, the shares.

I hope that this fully answers your questions,

Probably Items C and D below.

Problems sharing files between computers on a network are generally caused by
1) a misconfigured firewall or overlooked firewall (including a stateful
firewall in a VPN); or 2) inadvertently running two firewalls such as the
built-in Windows Firewall and a third-party firewall; and/or 3) not having
identical user accounts and passwords on all Workgroup machines; 4) trying
to create shares where the operating system does not permit it.

A. Configure firewalls on all machines to allow the Local Area Network (LAN)
traffic as trusted. With Windows Firewall, this means allowing File/Printer
Sharing on the Exceptions tab. Normally running the Network Setup Wizard on
XP will take care of this for those machines.The only "gotcha" is that this
will turn on the XPSP2 Windows Firewall. If you aren't running a third-party
firewall or have an antivirus/security program with its own firewall
component, then you're fine. With third-party firewalls, I usually configure
the LAN allowance with an IP range. Ex. would be 192.168.1.0-192.168.1.254.
Obviously you would substitute your correct subnet. Refer to any third party
security program's Help or user forums for how to properly configure its
firewall. Do not run more than one firewall. DO NOT TURN OFF FIREWALLS;
CONFIGURE THEM CORRECTLY.

B. For ease of organization, put all computers in the same Workgroup. This
is done from the System applet in Control Panel, Computer Name tab.

C. Create matching user accounts and passwords on all machines. You do not
need to be logged into the same account on all machines and the passwords
assigned to each user account can be different; the accounts/passwords just
need to exist and match on all machines. DO NOT NEGLECT TO CREATE PASSWORDS,
EVEN IF ONLY SIMPLE ONES. If you wish a machine to boot directly to the
Desktop (into one particular user's account) for convenience, you can do
this:

XP - Configure Windows to Automatically Login (MVP Ramesh) -
http://windowsxp.mvps.org/Autologon.htm

D. If one or more of the computers is XP Pro or Media Center, turn off Simple
File Sharing (Folder OptionsView tab).

Malke
--
MS-MVP
Elephant Boy Computers - Don't Panic!
http://www.elephantboycomputers.com/#FAQ

Steve Behman wrote:

Malke, thanks for your response. In reaction to it I did the following:

1) I disconnected one of the the old computers from the router -- the one
that could access all of the shares on both the other old system and the
new system.

Why would you do that? (That's a rhetorical question; there was no reason
for you to do this and every reason not to.)

2) I checked both of the remaining computers to ensure that both had
"Simple Sharing" and the "Windows Firewall" turned off. That left the
McAfee Firewall turned on both the remaining old machine (hereafter called
the "old machine") and the new machine.

Uninstall McAfee on all machines. After you uninstall it in Add/Remove
Programs, run their removal tool.

McAfee Removal Tools/Instructions
http://forums.mcafeehelp.com/viewtopic.php?t=71943

After you get the networking fixed you can reinstall it if you really want it
but I don't recommend it. McAfee is just about the worst security solution
you could pick. I recommend NOD32 (commercial) or Avast or Avira if you want
free. The built-in Windows Firewall is fine for most people.

3) When viewing "My Network Places" on the old machine it showed the same
Workgroup to which all machines were/are joined to and expanded to the
three Machines Names. However, doing the same thing on the new machine the
attempt to expand the workgroup failed in the same way as originally
described.

My Network Places is notoriously flaky. Find machines on the network by
searching for them by computer name instead. After you've made a good
connection shares will usually show up in My Network Places, but don't rely
on it while troubleshooting.

I think that I checked everything you mentioned and set them in accordance
with your instructions. The problem persists!

Same user names/passwords on all three machines? Double-check. Typos happen.
It is also quite common for an end user to get a computer with Windows
preinstalled and immediately start using the "Owner" (or some other account
generically-named by the computer mftr.) and simply rename this to their own
name. This of course doesn't change any of the underlying profile. So you can
have a situation of thinking a user account is named "Steve" when it is
really "Owner". If you have an account "Steve" with password 1234, an
account "Steve" with password 1234 needs to be on all the computers.

Is it possible that turning on "simple sharing" on all of the shared
folders (on both machines) will fix my problem or will it compound it?

It's your choice. Simple File Sharing makes you connect as guest (not the
same as the Guest account in Control PanelUser Accounts). If you just want
to share things in the Public (All Users) directory that's fine. If you want
to share user directories (My Documents) you'll get "access denied" as
guest. I find it simplest and preferable to disable Simple File Sharing and
create identical user accounts/passwords since then I can share what I want.
This is not onerous on such a small number of computers. I set up my
networking on today's new installs of Windows 7 and XP Pro (sharing with two
Macs, one Linux, and two XP Home boxen) in less than 5 minutes. So you're
doing something wrong.

So I'm not convinced that you actually did check everything, especially
because apparently your first action was inexplicable regarding
troubleshooting a network.

An excellent resource for troubleshooting network issues is MVP Hans-Georg
Michna's troubleshooter he

http://winhlp.com/wxnet.htm

Take the time to go through Mr. Michna's troubleshooter; it will usually
pinpoint the problem.

Malke
--
MS-MVP
Elephant Boy Computers - Don't Panic!
http://www.elephantboycomputers.com/#FAQ

Steve Behman wrote:

Malke, thanks for your response. In reaction to it I did the following:

1) I disconnected one of the the old computers from the router -- the one
that could access all of the shares on both the other old system and the
new system.

Why would you do that? (That's a rhetorical question; there was no reason
for you to do this and every reason not to.)

2) I checked both of the remaining computers to ensure that both had
"Simple Sharing" and the "Windows Firewall" turned off. That left the
McAfee Firewall turned on both the remaining old machine (hereafter called
the "old machine") and the new machine.

Uninstall McAfee on all machines. After you uninstall it in Add/Remove
Programs, run their removal tool.

McAfee Removal Tools/Instructions
http://forums.mcafeehelp.com/viewtopic.php?t=71943

After you get the networking fixed you can reinstall it if you really want it
but I don't recommend it. McAfee is just about the worst security solution
you could pick. I recommend NOD32 (commercial) or Avast or Avira if you want
free. The built-in Windows Firewall is fine for most people.

3) When viewing "My Network Places" on the old machine it showed the same
Workgroup to which all machines were/are joined to and expanded to the
three Machines Names. However, doing the same thing on the new machine the
attempt to expand the workgroup failed in the same way as originally
described.

My Network Places is notoriously flaky. Find machines on the network by
searching for them by computer name instead. After you've made a good
connection shares will usually show up in My Network Places, but don't rely
on it while troubleshooting.

I think that I checked everything you mentioned and set them in accordance
with your instructions. The problem persists!

Same user names/passwords on all three machines? Double-check. Typos happen.
It is also quite common for an end user to get a computer with Windows
preinstalled and immediately start using the "Owner" (or some other account
generically-named by the computer mftr.) and simply rename this to their own
name. This of course doesn't change any of the underlying profile. So you can
have a situation of thinking a user account is named "Steve" when it is
really "Owner". If you have an account "Steve" with password 1234, an
account "Steve" with password 1234 needs to be on all the computers.

Is it possible that turning on "simple sharing" on all of the shared
folders (on both machines) will fix my problem or will it compound it?

It's your choice. Simple File Sharing makes you connect as guest (not the
same as the Guest account in Control PanelUser Accounts). If you just want
to share things in the Public (All Users) directory that's fine. If you want
to share user directories (My Documents) you'll get "access denied" as
guest. I find it simplest and preferable to disable Simple File Sharing and
create identical user accounts/passwords since then I can share what I want.
This is not onerous on such a small number of computers. I set up my
networking on today's new installs of Windows 7 and XP Pro (sharing with two
Macs, one Linux, and two XP Home boxen) in less than 5 minutes. So you're
doing something wrong.

So I'm not convinced that you actually did check everything, especially
because apparently your first action was inexplicable regarding
troubleshooting a network.

An excellent resource for troubleshooting network issues is MVP Hans-Georg
Michna's troubleshooter he

http://winhlp.com/wxnet.htm

Take the time to go through Mr. Michna's troubleshooter; it will usually
pinpoint the problem.

Malke
--
MS-MVP
Elephant Boy Computers - Don't Panic!
http://www.elephantboycomputers.com/#FAQ