Restoring a system image

I'm learning a little about imaging, a subject I've neglected over the
years. So this is a very basic question, probably with an
embarrassingly simple answer.

Suppose I make an image (an .IMG or ISO file) of my C: drive (a 256 GB
SSD) and save it on external USB drive G:

I want to test it safely, so that I have confidence I can use it in an
emergency. I assume I can then restore it to external USB drive H:
(wiping out any other contents of H: that I haven't removed first)

Can I then restart the PC, go into BIOS, specify H: as the boot up
drive, and proceed to run as normal for a while?

--
Terry, East Grinstead, UK

On Sat, 20 Aug 2016 20:00:20 +0100, Terry Pinnell
wrote:

I'm learning a little about imaging, a subject I've neglected over the
years. So this is a very basic question, probably with an
embarrassingly simple answer.

Suppose I make an image (an .IMG or ISO file) of my C: drive (a 256 GB
SSD) and save it on external USB drive G:

I want to test it safely, so that I have confidence I can use it in an
emergency. I assume I can then restore it to external USB drive H:
(wiping out any other contents of H: that I haven't removed first)

Can I then restart the PC, go into BIOS, specify H: as the boot up
drive, and proceed to run as normal for a while?

I think you are going to need to use one of those flash drive boot
sector programs to get a bootable stick. You could restore it to
another hard drive to test it.

Terry,

Can I then restart the PC, go into BIOS, specify H: as the
boot up drive, and proceed to run as normal for a while?

You could, but you could not be sure that the OS than keeps running from
your H: drive. It could, due to absolute paths in the registry, switch over
to the (origional) C: at any moment.

The only way to be sure is to disable the origional system drive first, and
put the newly imaged drive in its place.

If your have a desktop machine and the drives are SATA that would mean
unplugging your current H: drive, and than move the cable from the C: drive
to the H: drive.

Hope that helps.

Regards,
Rudy Wieser


-- Origional message:
Terry Pinnell schreef in berichtnieuws
...
I'm learning a little about imaging, a subject I've neglected over the
years. So this is a very basic question, probably with an
embarrassingly simple answer.

Suppose I make an image (an .IMG or ISO file) of my C: drive (a 256 GB
SSD) and save it on external USB drive G:

I want to test it safely, so that I have confidence I can use it in an
emergency. I assume I can then restore it to external USB drive H:
(wiping out any other contents of H: that I haven't removed first)

Can I then restart the PC, go into BIOS, specify H: as the boot up
drive, and proceed to run as normal for a while?

--
Terry, East Grinstead, UK

"R.Wieser" wrote:

Terry,

Can I then restart the PC, go into BIOS, specify H: as the
boot up drive, and proceed to run as normal for a while?

You could, but you could not be sure that the OS than keeps running from
your H: drive. It could, due to absolute paths in the registry, switch over
to the (origional) C: at any moment.

The only way to be sure is to disable the origional system drive first, and
put the newly imaged drive in its place.

If your have a desktop machine and the drives are SATA that would mean
unplugging your current H: drive, and than move the cable from the C: drive
to the H: drive.

Hope that helps.

Regards,
Rudy Wieser


-- Origional message:
Terry Pinnell schreef in berichtnieuws
...
I'm learning a little about imaging, a subject I've neglected over the
years. So this is a very basic question, probably with an
embarrassingly simple answer.

Suppose I make an image (an .IMG or ISO file) of my C: drive (a 256 GB
SSD) and save it on external USB drive G:

I want to test it safely, so that I have confidence I can use it in an
emergency. I assume I can then restore it to external USB drive H:
(wiping out any other contents of H: that I haven't removed first)

Can I then restart the PC, go into BIOS, specify H: as the boot up
drive, and proceed to run as normal for a while?

--
Terry, East Grinstead, UK


Thanks Rudy, understood. Not as straightforward as I'd hoped!

Do others in fact actually saved images? Or just trust they'll work if
ever desperately needed? Any statistics to support such optimism?

--
Terry, East Grinstead, UK

wrote:

On Sat, 20 Aug 2016 20:00:20 +0100, Terry Pinnell
wrote:

I'm learning a little about imaging, a subject I've neglected over the
years. So this is a very basic question, probably with an
embarrassingly simple answer.

Suppose I make an image (an .IMG or ISO file) of my C: drive (a 256 GB
SSD) and save it on external USB drive G:

I want to test it safely, so that I have confidence I can use it in an
emergency. I assume I can then restore it to external USB drive H:
(wiping out any other contents of H: that I haven't removed first)

Can I then restart the PC, go into BIOS, specify H: as the boot up
drive, and proceed to run as normal for a while?

I think you are going to need to use one of those flash drive boot
sector programs to get a bootable stick. You could restore it to
another hard drive to test it.

Thanks. I did make one of those a while ago, shortly after getting
this new PC. I don't quite follow what you mean by "You could restore
it to another hard drive to test it." Restore what?

--
Terry, East Grinstead, UK

On Sat, 20 Aug 2016 21:35:58 +0200, "R.Wieser"
wrote:

Terry,

Can I then restart the PC, go into BIOS, specify H: as the
boot up drive, and proceed to run as normal for a while?

You could, but you could not be sure that the OS than keeps running from
your H: drive. It could, due to absolute paths in the registry, switch over
to the (origional) C: at any moment.
When you boot from a drive, it will be C: no matter where it resides.
I do it all the time when switching from my XOP drive to a DOS drive
or a W/98 drive. Of course DOS and W/98 won't see NTFS drives but I
have other drives (partitions) in the system and the other FAT drives
just start mapping D:, E: after whatever I booted from.

On Sat, 20 Aug 2016 21:39:11 +0100, Terry Pinnell
wrote:

wrote:

On Sat, 20 Aug 2016 20:00:20 +0100, Terry Pinnell
wrote:

I'm learning a little about imaging, a subject I've neglected over the
years. So this is a very basic question, probably with an
embarrassingly simple answer.

Suppose I make an image (an .IMG or ISO file) of my C: drive (a 256 GB
SSD) and save it on external USB drive G:

I want to test it safely, so that I have confidence I can use it in an
emergency. I assume I can then restore it to external USB drive H:
(wiping out any other contents of H: that I haven't removed first)

Can I then restart the PC, go into BIOS, specify H: as the boot up
drive, and proceed to run as normal for a while?

I think you are going to need to use one of those flash drive boot
sector programs to get a bootable stick. You could restore it to
another hard drive to test it.

Thanks. I did make one of those a while ago, shortly after getting
this new PC. I don't quite follow what you mean by "You could restore
it to another hard drive to test it." Restore what?

Restore your image to a hard drive.

Terry,

I don't quite follow what you mean by "You could restore
it to another hard drive to test it." Restore what?

"Restore" as in what you did putting the C: backup to the usb H: drive.

And he suggests to use a real drive instead of an usb one, as booting from
an usb drive sometimes causes problems (the procecc starts with legacy usb
support by the bios, but at some time the os tries to install its own
drivers. A point where it often goes wrong)

Regards,
Rudy Wieser


-- Origional message:
Terry Pinnell schreef in berichtnieuws
...
wrote:

On Sat, 20 Aug 2016 20:00:20 +0100, Terry Pinnell
wrote:

I'm learning a little about imaging, a subject I've neglected over the
years. So this is a very basic question, probably with an
embarrassingly simple answer.

Suppose I make an image (an .IMG or ISO file) of my C: drive (a 256 GB
SSD) and save it on external USB drive G:

I want to test it safely, so that I have confidence I can use it in an
emergency. I assume I can then restore it to external USB drive H:
(wiping out any other contents of H: that I haven't removed first)

Can I then restart the PC, go into BIOS, specify H: as the boot up
drive, and proceed to run as normal for a while?

I think you are going to need to use one of those flash drive boot
sector programs to get a bootable stick. You could restore it to
another hard drive to test it.

Thanks. I did make one of those a while ago, shortly after getting
this new PC. I don't quite follow what you mean by "You could restore
it to another hard drive to test it." Restore what?

--
Terry, East Grinstead, UK

In message , Charlie+
writes:
On Sat, 20 Aug 2016 21:37:15 +0100, Terry Pinnell
wrote as underneath :
[]
Thanks Rudy, understood. Not as straightforward as I'd hoped!

Do others in fact actually saved images? Or just trust they'll work if
ever desperately needed? Any statistics to support such optimism?

When you first start using your choice of software Acronis, Macrium etc
etc, test it, restore images, see that they work in the equipment they
are meant for from zero as if you have had a genuine failure and you
then can be sure you know what you are doing when the failure day comes!
[]
That's what Terry wants to do: be sure that he can restore from the
image he's just created. Which is a good thing to want to be sure you
can do.

But, it does require a "spare" hard drive. If you try to restore the
image you've just created, to the drive you created it from, and for any
reason this _doesn't_ work, you've just hosed your working system.

(Terry: I'd image just your C: partition [and any hidden one]; that way
you don't need as big a spare drive to test the restore to. This is
assuming you have your main drive partitioned into a reasonably-small C:
partition and the rest as a data one [which doesn't need imaging, just
simple copying, to back it up].)
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Who is Art, and why does life imitate him?

Per Terry Pinnell:
Do others in fact actually saved images? Or just trust they'll work if
ever desperately needed? Any statistics to support such optimism?

I have been using something called ShadowProtect to image my systems for
at least five years. Probably wretched excess feature-wise, but at
the time I purchased it it was the only one I knew of that would let me
browse an image (to recover files I had mistakenly saved to C: instead
of a data drive).

For three years, I had a teenager pounding on the box a couple of hours
a day and it got to the point where if the system seemed the least bit
flaky I wouldn't even think twice: just kick off a CYA backup, get a cup
of coffee, start a restore, drink said coffee, and 20 minutes later have
a good system.

Never a problem... not once.

Two Key Concepts:

- System vs Data: Allocate a D: partition on your disc or install
a separate disc for Data. Data goes on "Data", never on C: (System)

- Assume you're going to mess up: Before restoring from a
known-to-be-good image, take that CYA backup image just in case
you forgot and left something critical on the Desktop.


Now I have Macrium for incremental Data backups - and it would serve
for System images too.... but I am used to/comfortable with
ShadowProtect.... and ShadowProtect runs about a hundred times faster
than Macrium (making those CYA backups simpler/more practical).
--
Pete Cresswell

On Sun, 21 Aug 2016 08:40:26 +0200, "R.Wieser"
wrote:

Terry,

I don't quite follow what you mean by "You could restore
it to another hard drive to test it." Restore what?

"Restore" as in what you did putting the C: backup to the usb H: drive.

And he suggests to use a real drive instead of an usb one, as booting from
an usb drive sometimes causes problems (the procecc starts with legacy usb
support by the bios, but at some time the os tries to install its own
drivers. A point where it often goes wrong)

The biggest issue I have seen is you need a different boot sector on a
thumb drive so you need to be able to change the boot sector after you
load the image.
I have gotten an XP system to run on a thumb drive but I was jumping
through hoops and I am still not sure I could do it again. W/98 and
DOS are easier because XCOPY works with the right options.

"J. P. Gilliver (John)" wrote:

In message , Charlie+
writes:
On Sat, 20 Aug 2016 21:37:15 +0100, Terry Pinnell
wrote as underneath :
[]
Thanks Rudy, understood. Not as straightforward as I'd hoped!

Do others in fact actually saved images? Or just trust they'll work if
ever desperately needed? Any statistics to support such optimism?

When you first start using your choice of software Acronis, Macrium etc
etc, test it, restore images, see that they work in the equipment they
are meant for from zero as if you have had a genuine failure and you
then can be sure you know what you are doing when the failure day comes!
[]
That's what Terry wants to do: be sure that he can restore from the
image he's just created. Which is a good thing to want to be sure you
can do.

But, it does require a "spare" hard drive. If you try to restore the
image you've just created, to the drive you created it from, and for any
reason this _doesn't_ work, you've just hosed your working system.

So, does that include the external USB HD I described in my question
please? IOW, can I do exactly what I asked? Have others done exactly
that, which seems an easy enough method, especially for a user (lime
me) who does not want to open the case on this newly purchased PC and
start playing with cables etc.

As you'll have gathered, I confess to some confusion after reading all
the replies ;-)


(Terry: I'd image just your C: partition [and any hidden one]; that way
you don't need as big a spare drive to test the restore to. This is
assuming you have your main drive partitioned into a reasonably-small C:
partition and the rest as a data one [which doesn't need imaging, just
simple copying, to back it up].)

In message , Terry Pinnell
writes:
"J. P. Gilliver (John)" wrote:

In message , Charlie+
writes:
On Sat, 20 Aug 2016 21:37:15 +0100, Terry Pinnell
wrote as underneath :
[]
Thanks Rudy, understood. Not as straightforward as I'd hoped!

Do others in fact actually saved images? Or just trust they'll work if
ever desperately needed? Any statistics to support such optimism?

When you first start using your choice of software Acronis, Macrium etc
etc, test it, restore images, see that they work in the equipment they
are meant for from zero as if you have had a genuine failure and you
then can be sure you know what you are doing when the failure day comes!
[]
That's what Terry wants to do: be sure that he can restore from the
image he's just created. Which is a good thing to want to be sure you
can do.

But, it does require a "spare" hard drive. If you try to restore the
image you've just created, to the drive you created it from, and for any
reason this _doesn't_ work, you've just hosed your working system.

So, does that include the external USB HD I described in my question
please? IOW, can I do exactly what I asked? Have others done exactly
that, which seems an easy enough method, especially for a user (lime
me) who does not want to open the case on this newly purchased PC and
start playing with cables etc.

As you'll have gathered, I confess to some confusion after reading all
the replies ;-)


(Terry: I'd image just your C: partition [and any hidden one]; that way
you don't need as big a spare drive to test the restore to. This is
assuming you have your main drive partitioned into a reasonably-small C:
partition and the rest as a data one [which doesn't need imaging, just
simple copying, to back it up].)

The only way you can be _sure_ that the image you've created - whatever
you've created it on - is valid, is to "restore" it to *either* the
drive you made it from, *or* to another, blank, drive that you fit in
its place. (If, when you say "not want to open the case on this newly
purchased PC and start playing with cables etc.", you are referring to
a desktop machine, then in most cases it really isn't that difficult to
switch hard drives. [In fact, it isn't difficult on most laptops either
- in fact arguably simpler.])

Restoring an image to the drive you made it from, _does_ risk hosing
your working system, if either the image is invalid or your restore
mechanism is invalid; there's no way round that. That's why I'd do it to
a blank hard drive you physically substitute: that way you can still put
back the original one if the restore produces a system that won't boot.

Your "restore mechanism" - i. e. that which you would use to restore a
working system from an image - must (a) be bootable, (b) be able to
"see" the place you've put the image file when booted from. In my case,
it is a bootable mini-CD with Macrium 5 on it; on this machine (which
has no optical drive), I can boot from it on an external (USB-connected)
optical drive, and having done so it can see my (also USB-connected)
external drive dock, into which is plugged the external drive on which
I've made the image. (On my W7 machine, which _does_ have an optical
drive, I put the mini-CD into that, boot from it, and it can then see
the dock.)

I do the image-_making_ having booted from the mini-CD too - I just feel
happier making the image in a way similar to how I'm going to restore it
(and not trying to make an image of an OS that's actually running). But
you don't have to do that, if you're confident your image-making method
_will_ work from inside the OS it's trying to image. (Sorry, I'm getting
a bit off the subject of how you make sure your image is valid.)

A sort of half-way house is to use the verify option offered by Macrium
(and I think the alternatives). This will at least give you confidence
that the image you've made hasn't been corrupted, i. e. the file write
process has worked; however, that doesn't prove that you can restore it.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

"Purgamentum init, exit purgamentum." Translation: "Garbage in, garbage out."

On Thu, 25 Aug 2016 01:48:05 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
wrote:

In message , Terry Pinnell
writes:
"J. P. Gilliver (John)" wrote:

In message , Charlie+
writes:
On Sat, 20 Aug 2016 21:37:15 +0100, Terry Pinnell
wrote as underneath :
[]
Thanks Rudy, understood. Not as straightforward as I'd hoped!

Do others in fact actually saved images? Or just trust they'll work if
ever desperately needed? Any statistics to support such optimism?

When you first start using your choice of software Acronis, Macrium etc
etc, test it, restore images, see that they work in the equipment they
are meant for from zero as if you have had a genuine failure and you
then can be sure you know what you are doing when the failure day comes!
[]
That's what Terry wants to do: be sure that he can restore from the
image he's just created. Which is a good thing to want to be sure you
can do.

But, it does require a "spare" hard drive. If you try to restore the
image you've just created, to the drive you created it from, and for any
reason this _doesn't_ work, you've just hosed your working system.

So, does that include the external USB HD I described in my question
please? IOW, can I do exactly what I asked? Have others done exactly
that, which seems an easy enough method, especially for a user (lime
me) who does not want to open the case on this newly purchased PC and
start playing with cables etc.

As you'll have gathered, I confess to some confusion after reading all
the replies ;-)


(Terry: I'd image just your C: partition [and any hidden one]; that way
you don't need as big a spare drive to test the restore to. This is
assuming you have your main drive partitioned into a reasonably-small C:
partition and the rest as a data one [which doesn't need imaging, just
simple copying, to back it up].)

The only way you can be _sure_ that the image you've created - whatever
you've created it on - is valid, is to "restore" it to *either* the
drive you made it from, *or* to another, blank, drive that you fit in
its place. (If, when you say "not want to open the case on this newly
purchased PC and start playing with cables etc.", you are referring to
a desktop machine, then in most cases it really isn't that difficult to
switch hard drives. [In fact, it isn't difficult on most laptops either
- in fact arguably simpler.])

Restoring an image to the drive you made it from, _does_ risk hosing
your working system, if either the image is invalid or your restore
mechanism is invalid; there's no way round that. That's why I'd do it to
a blank hard drive you physically substitute: that way you can still put
back the original one if the restore produces a system that won't boot.

Your "restore mechanism" - i. e. that which you would use to restore a
working system from an image - must (a) be bootable, (b) be able to
"see" the place you've put the image file when booted from. In my case,
it is a bootable mini-CD with Macrium 5 on it; on this machine (which
has no optical drive), I can boot from it on an external (USB-connected)
optical drive, and having done so it can see my (also USB-connected)
external drive dock, into which is plugged the external drive on which
I've made the image. (On my W7 machine, which _does_ have an optical
drive, I put the mini-CD into that, boot from it, and it can then see
the dock.)

I do the image-_making_ having booted from the mini-CD too - I just feel
happier making the image in a way similar to how I'm going to restore it
(and not trying to make an image of an OS that's actually running). But
you don't have to do that, if you're confident your image-making method
_will_ work from inside the OS it's trying to image. (Sorry, I'm getting
a bit off the subject of how you make sure your image is valid.)

A sort of half-way house is to use the verify option offered by Macrium
(and I think the alternatives). This will at least give you confidence
that the image you've made hasn't been corrupted, i. e. the file write
process has worked; however, that doesn't prove that you can restore it.

These days an external SATA connection is not that unusual.

"J. P. Gilliver (John)" wrote:

In message , Terry Pinnell
writes:
"J. P. Gilliver (John)" wrote:

In message , Charlie+
writes:
On Sat, 20 Aug 2016 21:37:15 +0100, Terry Pinnell
wrote as underneath :
[]
Thanks Rudy, understood. Not as straightforward as I'd hoped!

Do others in fact actually saved images? Or just trust they'll work if
ever desperately needed? Any statistics to support such optimism?

When you first start using your choice of software Acronis, Macrium etc
etc, test it, restore images, see that they work in the equipment they
are meant for from zero as if you have had a genuine failure and you
then can be sure you know what you are doing when the failure day comes!
[]
That's what Terry wants to do: be sure that he can restore from the
image he's just created. Which is a good thing to want to be sure you
can do.

But, it does require a "spare" hard drive. If you try to restore the
image you've just created, to the drive you created it from, and for any
reason this _doesn't_ work, you've just hosed your working system.

So, does that include the external USB HD I described in my question
please? IOW, can I do exactly what I asked? Have others done exactly
that, which seems an easy enough method, especially for a user (lime
me) who does not want to open the case on this newly purchased PC and
start playing with cables etc.

As you'll have gathered, I confess to some confusion after reading all
the replies ;-)


(Terry: I'd image just your C: partition [and any hidden one]; that way
you don't need as big a spare drive to test the restore to. This is
assuming you have your main drive partitioned into a reasonably-small C:
partition and the rest as a data one [which doesn't need imaging, just
simple copying, to back it up].)

The only way you can be _sure_ that the image you've created - whatever
you've created it on - is valid, is to "restore" it to *either* the
drive you made it from, *or* to another, blank, drive that you fit in
its place. (If, when you say "not want to open the case on this newly
purchased PC and start playing with cables etc.", you are referring to
a desktop machine, then in most cases it really isn't that difficult to
switch hard drives. [In fact, it isn't difficult on most laptops either
- in fact arguably simpler.])

Restoring an image to the drive you made it from, _does_ risk hosing
your working system, if either the image is invalid or your restore
mechanism is invalid; there's no way round that. That's why I'd do it to
a blank hard drive you physically substitute: that way you can still put
back the original one if the restore produces a system that won't boot.

Your "restore mechanism" - i. e. that which you would use to restore a
working system from an image - must (a) be bootable, (b) be able to
"see" the place you've put the image file when booted from. In my case,
it is a bootable mini-CD with Macrium 5 on it; on this machine (which
has no optical drive), I can boot from it on an external (USB-connected)
optical drive, and having done so it can see my (also USB-connected)
external drive dock, into which is plugged the external drive on which
I've made the image. (On my W7 machine, which _does_ have an optical
drive, I put the mini-CD into that, boot from it, and it can then see
the dock.)

I do the image-_making_ having booted from the mini-CD too - I just feel
happier making the image in a way similar to how I'm going to restore it
(and not trying to make an image of an OS that's actually running). But
you don't have to do that, if you're confident your image-making method
_will_ work from inside the OS it's trying to image. (Sorry, I'm getting
a bit off the subject of how you make sure your image is valid.)

A sort of half-way house is to use the verify option offered by Macrium
(and I think the alternatives). This will at least give you confidence
that the image you've made hasn't been corrupted, i. e. the file write
process has worked; however, that doesn't prove that you can restore it.

Thanks John. So is that a clear cut No to my opening question please?

"So, does that include the external USB HD I described in my question
please? IOW, can I do exactly what I asked?"

If not, what is the underlying reason? If the image was a bit-by-bit
clone of my SSD C:, on an external USB WD HD, why could I not boot
from that?

I've seen ambiguous answers on this, but it's obviously a key issue.

I definitely do not want to physically replace my Samsung 950 Pro
V-Nand M.2 PCl—e SSD 256GB, with its critical cabling to my Asus Z170
Pro 4 Motherboard. To grossly mis-quote Hancock, "It might seem easy
to you, but it's life or death to some people!"

--
Terry, East Grinstead, UK
--
Terry, East Grinstead, UK