Product CD key

Ok, that helps me understand a little better.

Thanks
Joe

"Jupiter Jones [MVP]" wrote in message
...
Joe;
The key is checked...for some type of hash code.
The actual Product Key is nowhere to be found on the CD.

To put another way a Product Key from any retail Windows XP Home full
version will work with any retail Windows XP Home full CD, same for
retail Windows XP Pro upgrade etc.

OEM are different and one OEM key will most likely not work with a CD
from another OEM regardless the type of each.

--
Jupiter Jones [MVP]
An easier way to read newsgroup messages:
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/p...oups/setup.asp
http://www3.telus.net/dandemar/


"Joe727" wrote in message
...
"Mike Brannigan [MSFT]" wrote in
message
...
"Joe727" wrote in message
...
Just curious. How can it not be on the CD? How else would the
Operating
System verify that the number entered is the correct one?

Joe

Joe,

We do not check during install to see if the key entered is the
"correct"
one.
We can check that the number entered is a "valid" key for the type
of
product you are installing (e.g an OEM key for an OEM CD and not a
Retail
key).
The key is then used as a component of the hash generated by the
activation
wizard for use in product activation
So the key itself des not have to be on the CD for it to be used
by the
OS.

--
Regards,

Mike
--
Mike Brannigan [Microsoft]
snip

Hi Mike thanks for responding. I don't have the technical
background to
understand how it works.

I do know that long before you get to the activation point in the
process,
you have to enter the product key. Anyone installing or
reinstalling XP at
this point in time, should not even be connected to the internet,
before
they installed a virus scanning program or a firewall like Zone
Alarm which
will block the RPC Blaster worm.

So, somehow the Product Key is confirmed as being genuine and
attached to
the CD from which the Operating System is loaded. It's checked
before you
connect to the internet. Otherwise, you could enter any combination
of 25
letters and numerals, and the OS would load and start up.

Joe

As per Jupiter comments.

The product key you enter as part of the install is checked to see if it is
a valid TYPE of key for the media you are installing from .
This does not require any contact to us (Microsoft) we simple check to see
if the key you enter is valid of the type of media you are using not a
specific disk.

--
Regards,

Mike
--
Mike Brannigan [Microsoft]

This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no
rights

Please note I cannot respond to e-mailed questions, please use these
newsgroups

"Joe727" wrote in message
...
"Mike Brannigan [MSFT]" wrote in message
...
"Joe727" wrote in message
...
Just curious. How can it not be on the CD? How else would the
Operating
System verify that the number entered is the correct one?

Joe

Joe,

We do not check during install to see if the key entered is the
"correct"
one.
We can check that the number entered is a "valid" key for the type of
product you are installing (e.g an OEM key for an OEM CD and not a
Retail
key).
The key is then used as a component of the hash generated by the
activation
wizard for use in product activation
So the key itself des not have to be on the CD for it to be used by the
OS.

--
Regards,

Mike
--
Mike Brannigan [Microsoft]
snip

Hi Mike thanks for responding. I don't have the technical background to
understand how it works.

I do know that long before you get to the activation point in the process,
you have to enter the product key. Anyone installing or reinstalling XP
at
this point in time, should not even be connected to the internet, before
they installed a virus scanning program or a firewall like Zone Alarm
which
will block the RPC Blaster worm.

So, somehow the Product Key is confirmed as being genuine and attached to
the CD from which the Operating System is loaded. It's checked before you
connect to the internet. Otherwise, you could enter any combination of 25
letters and numerals, and the OS would load and start up.

Joe

I am not talking about activation as I mentioned. In fact, I wasn't the one
who brought the issue of activation up.

There is no activation required in 9x, but a 25 alpha-numeric Product Key
is. 9x will not complete the installation until the Product Key is entered
and verified. I've mis-typed the Product Key and the OS would not load.

The two are separate issues.

Joe

"Star Fleet Admiral Q"
wrote in message ...
That's what you are missing, the part you don't understand. The 25-digit
product key is used in an algorithm to create a hash total, then this
total
is compared to the allowable hash total for the product you are
installing,
and if valid, allows the installation to continue. All windows activation
does is verifies whether your specific key has been used or not, and if
so,
compares the hardware hash to the hash on file for differences. If the
differences are too great, it denies activation and you are required to
call
MS for phone activation. Also, if the key has not been activated, the a
hash total is created and stored based on your hardware configuration.

"Joe727" wrote in message
...
"Mike Brannigan [MSFT]" wrote in message
...
"Joe727" wrote in message
...
Just curious. How can it not be on the CD? How else would the
Operating
System verify that the number entered is the correct one?

Joe

Joe,

We do not check during install to see if the key entered is the
"correct"
one.
We can check that the number entered is a "valid" key for the type of
product you are installing (e.g an OEM key for an OEM CD and not a
Retail
key).
The key is then used as a component of the hash generated by the
activation
wizard for use in product activation
So the key itself des not have to be on the CD for it to be used by
the
OS.

--
Regards,

Mike
--
Mike Brannigan [Microsoft]
snip

Hi Mike thanks for responding. I don't have the technical background to
understand how it works.

I do know that long before you get to the activation point in the
process,
you have to enter the product key. Anyone installing or reinstalling XP
at
this point in time, should not even be connected to the internet, before
they installed a virus scanning program or a firewall like Zone Alarm
which
will block the RPC Blaster worm.

So, somehow the Product Key is confirmed as being genuine and attached
to
the CD from which the Operating System is loaded. It's checked before
you
connect to the internet. Otherwise, you could enter any combination of
25
letters and numerals, and the OS would load and start up.

Joe

I understand contact is not needed with MS. When I built what I call my
Media PC and installed XP Pro SP1 (Retail), the OS was loaded and a couple
of programs installed, before I even plugged the RJ45 jack into the Ethernet
Card.

So, as I mentioned below, somehow the key is verified (checked, as you put
it). There has to be verification, otherwise what would be the purpose?
The Product Key would be as effective as the log-in password on Windows 98.

Thanks again. I really do appreciate the time you've spent on this. It's a
bit confusing, but then again, that's part of what makes the Product Key an
effective anti-piracy tool.

Joe

"Mike Brannigan [MSFT]" wrote in message
...
As per Jupiter comments.

The product key you enter as part of the install is checked to see if it
is
a valid TYPE of key for the media you are installing from .
This does not require any contact to us (Microsoft) we simple check to see
if the key you enter is valid of the type of media you are using not a
specific disk.

--
Regards,

Mike
--
Mike Brannigan [Microsoft]

snip

Hi Mike thanks for responding. I don't have the technical background to
understand how it works.

I do know that long before you get to the activation point in the
process,
you have to enter the product key. Anyone installing or reinstalling XP
at
this point in time, should not even be connected to the internet, before
they installed a virus scanning program or a firewall like Zone Alarm
which
will block the RPC Blaster worm.

So, somehow the Product Key is confirmed as being genuine and attached
to
the CD from which the Operating System is loaded. It's checked before
you
connect to the internet. Otherwise, you could enter any combination of
25
letters and numerals, and the OS would load and start up.

Joe

Jupiter Jones [MVP] wrote:
Joe;
The key is checked...for some type of hash code.
The actual Product Key is nowhere to be found on the CD.

To put another way a Product Key from any retail Windows XP Home full
version will work with any retail Windows XP Home full CD, same for
retail Windows XP Pro upgrade etc.

OEM are different and one OEM key will most likely not work with a CD
from another OEM regardless the type of each.



An OEM version will work with any other OEM CD Key as long as it is the same
Pro or Home, the difference is if it is bios locked and does not detect the
right bios, you will need to activate manually over the internet or by
phone.
--

Michael Stevens MS-MVP XP

http://michaelstevenstech.com
For a better newsgroup experience. Setup a newsreader.
http://michaelstevenstech.com/outloo...snewreader.htm

"Joe727" wrote in message
...
"Mike Brannigan [MSFT]" wrote in
message ...
"Joe727" wrote in message
...
Just curious. How can it not be on the CD? How else would the
Operating System verify that the number entered is the correct one?

Joe

Joe,

We do not check during install to see if the key entered is the
"correct" one.
We can check that the number entered is a "valid" key for the type
of product you are installing (e.g an OEM key for an OEM CD and not
a Retail key).
The key is then used as a component of the hash generated by the
activation wizard for use in product activation
So the key itself des not have to be on the CD for it to be used by
the OS.

--
Regards,

Mike
--
Mike Brannigan [Microsoft]
snip

Hi Mike thanks for responding. I don't have the technical
background to understand how it works.

I do know that long before you get to the activation point in the
process, you have to enter the product key. Anyone installing or
reinstalling XP at this point in time, should not even be connected
to the internet, before they installed a virus scanning program or a
firewall like Zone Alarm which will block the RPC Blaster worm.

So, somehow the Product Key is confirmed as being genuine and
attached to the CD from which the Operating System is loaded. It's
checked before you connect to the internet. Otherwise, you could
enter any combination of 25 letters and numerals, and the OS would
load and start up.

Joe

Joe727 wrote:
I am not talking about activation as I mentioned. In fact, I wasn't
the one who brought the issue of activation up.

There is no activation required in 9x, but a 25 alpha-numeric Product
Key is. 9x will not complete the installation until the Product Key
is entered and verified. I've mis-typed the Product Key and the OS
would not load.

The two are separate issues.

Joe


The CD Key is not hard coded to each individual Windows CD's regardless of
whether it is 95/98/Me/2000/XP. There are a range of CD keys that setup will
accept determined by the algorithm used by each Windows version. When you
miss-typed the key it no longer fit the range accepted. It is not because
the key is hard coded to each individual CD.
--

Michael Stevens MS-MVP XP

http://michaelstevenstech.com
For a better newsgroup experience. Setup a newsreader.
http://michaelstevenstech.com/outloo...snewreader.htm

"Star Fleet Admiral Q"
wrote in message
...
That's what you are missing, the part you don't understand. The
25-digit product key is used in an algorithm to create a hash total,
then this total is compared to the allowable hash total for the
product you are installing, and if valid, allows the installation to
continue. All windows activation does is verifies whether your
specific key has been used or not, and if so, compares the hardware
hash to the hash on file for differences. If the differences are
too great, it denies activation and you are required to call MS for
phone activation. Also, if the key has not been activated, the a
hash total is created and stored based on your hardware
configuration.

"Joe727" wrote in message
...
"Mike Brannigan [MSFT]" wrote in
message ...
"Joe727" wrote in message
...
Just curious. How can it not be on the CD? How else would the
Operating System verify that the number entered is the correct
one?

Joe

Joe,

We do not check during install to see if the key entered is the
"correct" one.
We can check that the number entered is a "valid" key for the type
of product you are installing (e.g an OEM key for an OEM CD and
not a Retail key).
The key is then used as a component of the hash generated by the
activation wizard for use in product activation
So the key itself des not have to be on the CD for it to be used
by the OS.

--
Regards,

Mike
--
Mike Brannigan [Microsoft]
snip

Hi Mike thanks for responding. I don't have the technical
background to understand how it works.

I do know that long before you get to the activation point in the
process, you have to enter the product key. Anyone installing or
reinstalling XP at this point in time, should not even be connected
to the internet, before they installed a virus scanning program or
a firewall like Zone Alarm which will block the RPC Blaster worm.

So, somehow the Product Key is confirmed as being genuine and
attached to the CD from which the Operating System is loaded. It's
checked before you connect to the internet. Otherwise, you could
enter any combination of 25 letters and numerals, and the OS would
load and start up.

Joe

"Michael Stevens" wrote in message
...
Joe727 wrote:
I am not talking about activation as I mentioned. In fact, I wasn't
the one who brought the issue of activation up.

There is no activation required in 9x, but a 25 alpha-numeric Product
Key is. 9x will not complete the installation until the Product Key
is entered and verified. I've mis-typed the Product Key and the OS
would not load.

The two are separate issues.

Joe


The CD Key is not hard coded to each individual Windows CD's regardless of
whether it is 95/98/Me/2000/XP. There are a range of CD keys that setup
will
accept determined by the algorithm used by each Windows version. When you
miss-typed the key it no longer fit the range accepted. It is not because
the key is hard coded to each individual CD.
--

Michael Stevens MS-MVP XP
snip

IC - The process is a bit clearer now. Like I mentioned, I was just
curious. The major thing an end user like me needs to do is not lose the
Product Key.

Thanks again for taking the time to explain how it works.

Joe

"Joe727" wrote in message
...
I understand contact is not needed with MS. When I built what I call my
Media PC and installed XP Pro SP1 (Retail), the OS was loaded and a couple
of programs installed, before I even plugged the RJ45 jack into the
Ethernet
Card.

So, as I mentioned below, somehow the key is verified (checked, as you put
it). There has to be verification, otherwise what would be the purpose?
The Product Key would be as effective as the log-in password on Windows
98.

Thanks again. I really do appreciate the time you've spent on this. It's
a
bit confusing, but then again, that's part of what makes the Product Key
an
effective anti-piracy tool.


The Product Activation Key you enter is initially checked to see if it is
the right TYPE of key for the media you are using.
This is just a simple mathematical check against the values you enter as a
the Product Key, just like a CRC check on any other data. (I cannot go into
more detail as to the precise nature of this check). They are all computed
together and if the values is OK then the key you enter is one of the
millions of valid product activation keys we issue for each and every copy
of Windows XP of that TYPE (OEM or Retail Or Volume Licenses)

--
Regards,

Mike
--
Mike Brannigan [Microsoft]

This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no
rights

Please note I cannot respond to e-mailed questions, please use these
newsgroups

"Joe727" wrote in message
...
I understand contact is not needed with MS. When I built what I call my
Media PC and installed XP Pro SP1 (Retail), the OS was loaded and a couple
of programs installed, before I even plugged the RJ45 jack into the
Ethernet
Card.

So, as I mentioned below, somehow the key is verified (checked, as you put
it). There has to be verification, otherwise what would be the purpose?
The Product Key would be as effective as the log-in password on Windows
98.

Thanks again. I really do appreciate the time you've spent on this. It's
a
bit confusing, but then again, that's part of what makes the Product Key
an
effective anti-piracy tool.

Joe

"Mike Brannigan [MSFT]" wrote in message
...
As per Jupiter comments.

The product key you enter as part of the install is checked to see if it
is
a valid TYPE of key for the media you are installing from .
This does not require any contact to us (Microsoft) we simple check to
see
if the key you enter is valid of the type of media you are using not a
specific disk.

--
Regards,

Mike
--
Mike Brannigan [Microsoft]

snip

Hi Mike thanks for responding. I don't have the technical background
to
understand how it works.

I do know that long before you get to the activation point in the
process,
you have to enter the product key. Anyone installing or reinstalling
XP
at
this point in time, should not even be connected to the internet,
before
they installed a virus scanning program or a firewall like Zone Alarm
which
will block the RPC Blaster worm.

So, somehow the Product Key is confirmed as being genuine and attached
to
the CD from which the Operating System is loaded. It's checked before
you
connect to the internet. Otherwise, you could enter any combination
of
25
letters and numerals, and the OS would load and start up.

Joe

"Mike Brannigan [MSFT]" wrote in message
...

"Joe727" wrote in message
...
I understand contact is not needed with MS. When I built what I call my
Media PC and installed XP Pro SP1 (Retail), the OS was loaded and a
couple
of programs installed, before I even plugged the RJ45 jack into the
Ethernet
Card.

So, as I mentioned below, somehow the key is verified (checked, as you
put
it). There has to be verification, otherwise what would be the purpose?
The Product Key would be as effective as the log-in password on Windows
98.

Thanks again. I really do appreciate the time you've spent on this.
It's
a
bit confusing, but then again, that's part of what makes the Product Key
an
effective anti-piracy tool.


The Product Activation Key you enter is initially checked to see if it is
the right TYPE of key for the media you are using.
This is just a simple mathematical check against the values you enter as a
the Product Key, just like a CRC check on any other data. (I cannot go
into
more detail as to the precise nature of this check). They are all computed
together and if the values is OK then the key you enter is one of the
millions of valid product activation keys we issue for each and every copy
of Windows XP of that TYPE (OEM or Retail Or Volume Licenses)

--
Regards,

Mike
--
Mike Brannigan [Microsoft]
snip

Thanks once again. I didn't expect you to go into detail

However, you did clarify how it works, which quite frankly, had me confused.
As I mentioned in another post the best thing for an end user is not to lose
the Product Key which is why I keep backups of my backups.

Joe

"Joe727" wrote in message
...

"Michael Stevens" wrote in message
...
Joe727 wrote:
I am not talking about activation as I mentioned. In fact, I wasn't
the one who brought the issue of activation up.

There is no activation required in 9x, but a 25 alpha-numeric Product
Key is. 9x will not complete the installation until the Product Key
is entered and verified. I've mis-typed the Product Key and the OS
would not load.

The two are separate issues.

Joe


The CD Key is not hard coded to each individual Windows CD's regardless
of
whether it is 95/98/Me/2000/XP. There are a range of CD keys that setup
will
accept determined by the algorithm used by each Windows version. When
you
miss-typed the key it no longer fit the range accepted. It is not
because
the key is hard coded to each individual CD.
--

Michael Stevens MS-MVP XP
snip

IC - The process is a bit clearer now. Like I mentioned, I was just
curious. The major thing an end user like me needs to do is not lose the
Product Key.

Thanks again for taking the time to explain how it works.

Joe



You are welcome, glad we could straighten it out for you.
--

Michael Stevens MS-MVP XP

http://michaelstevenstech.com
For a better newsgroup experience. Setup a newsreader.
http://michaelstevenstech.com/outloo...snewreader.htm

Maybe xp keyfinder may be of use. Just do a search on xp keyfinder.

Your stuck...
You could use a crack version of the product key but that your problem.....

----- arthur427 wrote: -----


Recently purchased XP Pro. It is an OEM product that I bought along
with a new motherboard. My problem is that I sent the Certificate of
Authentication along with the CD key to the trash before I could
install it. Is there any way to retrieve the key from the disk or am I
stuck with an expensive ornamant.

Thanks for any help


arthur427
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posted via http://www.mcse.ms
------------------------------------------------------------------------
View this thread: http://www.mcse.ms/message290307.html

Microsoft will give you a new CD Key, you will have to call a toll free number. I lost mine and they emailed me a new one!!

ya right MS is just handing out new key codes to anyone that calls them and
cries they lost theirs.

--
Hope this helps
Haus