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#91
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Data Microsoft collects
On Mon, 25 May 2015 00:13:08 -0600, Ken Springer
wrote: On 5/24/15 2:03 PM, Char Jackson wrote: On Sat, 23 May 2015 09:48:07 -0600, Ken Springer wrote: When I wrote the comment, I was thinking of a situation where a group of people are collaborating on a project, and need to create a report, plan, drawings, something as a group, not as individuals. Only one person should have control of the document creation. You preferably or someone writes the original. Create a PDF from the original, and send it to the other members individually. They should be instructed to use the annotation feature to send feedback of what they would like to see changed. *NO* editing of the original text. That leaves you with the original text to compare with the changes that individual wants. You realize, of course, that when you send a document to someone to solicit their input, you're generally sending a "copy". Most people wouldn't work on a document, send a copy to a colleague, delete their local copy, and then hope for the best. ;-) G Yep. What would usually happen for me was someone would delete the original text and simply insert their text, leaving me with nothing to compare. You always have the original document, so you can use that for comparisons if someone forgets to use Track Changes. I'm not sure when Word gained the Compare feature. I didn't use that feature often, so to me it seems like it's always been there. |
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#92
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Data Microsoft collects
On 5/25/15 12:29 AM, Char Jackson wrote:
On Mon, 25 May 2015 00:13:08 -0600, Ken Springer wrote: On 5/24/15 2:03 PM, Char Jackson wrote: On Sat, 23 May 2015 09:48:07 -0600, Ken Springer wrote: When I wrote the comment, I was thinking of a situation where a group of people are collaborating on a project, and need to create a report, plan, drawings, something as a group, not as individuals. Only one person should have control of the document creation. You preferably or someone writes the original. Create a PDF from the original, and send it to the other members individually. They should be instructed to use the annotation feature to send feedback of what they would like to see changed. *NO* editing of the original text. That leaves you with the original text to compare with the changes that individual wants. You realize, of course, that when you send a document to someone to solicit their input, you're generally sending a "copy". Most people wouldn't work on a document, send a copy to a colleague, delete their local copy, and then hope for the best. ;-) G Yep. What would usually happen for me was someone would delete the original text and simply insert their text, leaving me with nothing to compare. You always have the original document, so you can use that for comparisons if someone forgets to use Track Changes. I'm not sure when Word gained the Compare feature. I didn't use that feature often, so to me it seems like it's always been there. I don't know when it got the compare feature, but that's not what I meant. :-) Don't you just love the English language? LOL By compare, I meant doing it manually, reading the original first, the suggested change(s) second. If I have two .doc files, I have to have both of them open in separate windows, AFAIK. But if it's an annotated PDF, the original and suggested phrases are displayed in a single document. -- Ken Mac OS X 10.8.5 Firefox 36.0.4 Thunderbird 31.5 "My brain is like lightning, a quick flash and it's gone!" |
#93
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Data Microsoft collects
On 5/25/15 12:25 PM, Neil Gould wrote:
Ken Springer wrote: On 5/25/15 12:29 AM, Char Jackson wrote: On Mon, 25 May 2015 00:13:08 -0600, Ken Springer wrote: On 5/24/15 2:03 PM, Char Jackson wrote: On Sat, 23 May 2015 09:48:07 -0600, Ken Springer wrote: When I wrote the comment, I was thinking of a situation where a group of people are collaborating on a project, and need to create a report, plan, drawings, something as a group, not as individuals. Only one person should have control of the document creation. You preferably or someone writes the original. Create a PDF from the original, and send it to the other members individually. They should be instructed to use the annotation feature to send feedback of what they would like to see changed. *NO* editing of the original text. That leaves you with the original text to compare with the changes that individual wants. You realize, of course, that when you send a document to someone to solicit their input, you're generally sending a "copy". Most people wouldn't work on a document, send a copy to a colleague, delete their local copy, and then hope for the best. ;-) G Yep. What would usually happen for me was someone would delete the original text and simply insert their text, leaving me with nothing to compare. You always have the original document, so you can use that for comparisons if someone forgets to use Track Changes. I'm not sure when Word gained the Compare feature. I didn't use that feature often, so to me it seems like it's always been there. I don't know when it got the compare feature, but that's not what I meant. :-) Don't you just love the English language? LOL By compare, I meant doing it manually, reading the original first, the suggested change(s) second. If I have two .doc files, I have to have both of them open in separate windows, AFAIK. But if it's an annotated PDF, the original and suggested phrases are displayed in a single document. There are programs designed for collaborative authoring that automate the process and make it very easy to track revisions and versions. FrameMaker is one that has had that ability since at least version 3, which was before Adobe bought Frame, Inc. decades ago. Using Word, PDFs and so on for version tracking is just another way to make life difficult. ;-) I don't doubt there are programs for that. The question is, is the program of enough value to you to justify the purchase? Beside buying it, you have to factor in the following: - Training of the employees to use and understand it - Training of management to use and understand it - Training of sub-contractors and their employees to use it - Willingness of everyone to use it There's probably some other things I haven't thought about. There's going to be a level below which the business is not going to find the expenditures related to the above list financially advisable. Maybe they only do this 3 or 4 times a year, and on smaller projects. The trick is always to find the best way to use the tools you already have, and arguably, the tools everyone already has. The negative of your method is all users have to have the same software, and absorb the same expense. With my way, users can select whatever software they wish, and only have to be able to create a basic PDF file, which can be done with a free printer driver in Windows, or natively in OS X. My way is possibly easier to accomplish and mix OSes also. G -- Ken Mac OS X 10.8.5 Firefox 36.0.4 Thunderbird 31.5 "My brain is like lightning, a quick flash and it's gone!" |
#94
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Data Microsoft collects
Ken Springer wrote:
On 5/25/15 12:29 AM, Char Jackson wrote: On Mon, 25 May 2015 00:13:08 -0600, Ken Springer wrote: On 5/24/15 2:03 PM, Char Jackson wrote: On Sat, 23 May 2015 09:48:07 -0600, Ken Springer wrote: When I wrote the comment, I was thinking of a situation where a group of people are collaborating on a project, and need to create a report, plan, drawings, something as a group, not as individuals. Only one person should have control of the document creation. You preferably or someone writes the original. Create a PDF from the original, and send it to the other members individually. They should be instructed to use the annotation feature to send feedback of what they would like to see changed. *NO* editing of the original text. That leaves you with the original text to compare with the changes that individual wants. You realize, of course, that when you send a document to someone to solicit their input, you're generally sending a "copy". Most people wouldn't work on a document, send a copy to a colleague, delete their local copy, and then hope for the best. ;-) G Yep. What would usually happen for me was someone would delete the original text and simply insert their text, leaving me with nothing to compare. You always have the original document, so you can use that for comparisons if someone forgets to use Track Changes. I'm not sure when Word gained the Compare feature. I didn't use that feature often, so to me it seems like it's always been there. I don't know when it got the compare feature, but that's not what I meant. :-) Don't you just love the English language? LOL By compare, I meant doing it manually, reading the original first, the suggested change(s) second. If I have two .doc files, I have to have both of them open in separate windows, AFAIK. But if it's an annotated PDF, the original and suggested phrases are displayed in a single document. There are programs designed for collaborative authoring that automate the process and make it very easy to track revisions and versions. FrameMaker is one that has had that ability since at least version 3, which was before Adobe bought Frame, Inc. decades ago. Using Word, PDFs and so on for version tracking is just another way to make life difficult. ;-) -- best regards, Neil |
#95
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Data Microsoft collects
On Mon, 25 May 2015 09:46:06 -0600, Ken Springer
wrote: On 5/25/15 12:29 AM, Char Jackson wrote: On Mon, 25 May 2015 00:13:08 -0600, Ken Springer wrote: On 5/24/15 2:03 PM, Char Jackson wrote: On Sat, 23 May 2015 09:48:07 -0600, Ken Springer wrote: When I wrote the comment, I was thinking of a situation where a group of people are collaborating on a project, and need to create a report, plan, drawings, something as a group, not as individuals. Only one person should have control of the document creation. You preferably or someone writes the original. Create a PDF from the original, and send it to the other members individually. They should be instructed to use the annotation feature to send feedback of what they would like to see changed. *NO* editing of the original text. That leaves you with the original text to compare with the changes that individual wants. You realize, of course, that when you send a document to someone to solicit their input, you're generally sending a "copy". Most people wouldn't work on a document, send a copy to a colleague, delete their local copy, and then hope for the best. ;-) G Yep. What would usually happen for me was someone would delete the original text and simply insert their text, leaving me with nothing to compare. You always have the original document, so you can use that for comparisons if someone forgets to use Track Changes. I'm not sure when Word gained the Compare feature. I didn't use that feature often, so to me it seems like it's always been there. I don't know when it got the compare feature, but that's not what I meant. :-) Don't you just love the English language? LOL By compare, I meant doing it manually, reading the original first, the suggested change(s) second. If I have two .doc files, I have to have both of them open in separate windows, AFAIK. But if it's an annotated PDF, the original and suggested phrases are displayed in a single document. Yes, but why would you want to compare two Word documents manually? Let computers do what they do best. Let the computer do the comparing, (via the Word application, in this case). |
#96
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Data Microsoft collects
On 5/25/15 11:20 PM, Char Jackson wrote:
On Mon, 25 May 2015 09:46:06 -0600, Ken Springer wrote: On 5/25/15 12:29 AM, Char Jackson wrote: On Mon, 25 May 2015 00:13:08 -0600, Ken Springer wrote: On 5/24/15 2:03 PM, Char Jackson wrote: On Sat, 23 May 2015 09:48:07 -0600, Ken Springer wrote: When I wrote the comment, I was thinking of a situation where a group of people are collaborating on a project, and need to create a report, plan, drawings, something as a group, not as individuals. Only one person should have control of the document creation. You preferably or someone writes the original. Create a PDF from the original, and send it to the other members individually. They should be instructed to use the annotation feature to send feedback of what they would like to see changed. *NO* editing of the original text. That leaves you with the original text to compare with the changes that individual wants. You realize, of course, that when you send a document to someone to solicit their input, you're generally sending a "copy". Most people wouldn't work on a document, send a copy to a colleague, delete their local copy, and then hope for the best. ;-) G Yep. What would usually happen for me was someone would delete the original text and simply insert their text, leaving me with nothing to compare. You always have the original document, so you can use that for comparisons if someone forgets to use Track Changes. I'm not sure when Word gained the Compare feature. I didn't use that feature often, so to me it seems like it's always been there. I don't know when it got the compare feature, but that's not what I meant. :-) Don't you just love the English language? LOL By compare, I meant doing it manually, reading the original first, the suggested change(s) second. If I have two .doc files, I have to have both of them open in separate windows, AFAIK. But if it's an annotated PDF, the original and suggested phrases are displayed in a single document. Yes, but why would you want to compare two Word documents manually? Let computers do what they do best. Let the computer do the comparing, (via the Word application, in this case). You're assuming everyone is using Word. I'm not. :-) I'm not even assuming the same OS. -- Ken Mac OS X 10.8.5 Firefox 36.0.4 Thunderbird 31.5 "My brain is like lightning, a quick flash and it's gone!" |
#97
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Data Microsoft collects
Ken Springer wrote:
On 5/25/15 12:25 PM, Neil Gould wrote: Ken Springer wrote: By compare, I meant doing it manually, reading the original first, the suggested change(s) second. If I have two .doc files, I have to have both of them open in separate windows, AFAIK. But if it's an annotated PDF, the original and suggested phrases are displayed in a single document. There are programs designed for collaborative authoring that automate the process and make it very easy to track revisions and versions. FrameMaker is one that has had that ability since at least version 3, which was before Adobe bought Frame, Inc. decades ago. Using Word, PDFs and so on for version tracking is just another way to make life difficult. ;-) I don't doubt there are programs for that. The question is, is the program of enough value to you to justify the purchase? The short answer is, it depends. The cost of the software is fairly irrelevant compared to the inefficiency of "hacked" methods. But, if the document is small, not all that important, and/or has little impact on the company, then it would be hard to justify any investment. OTOH, if the collaborators are spread across the world and are creating documents of value to the company, it's a no-brainer to require the use of such software, as many companies do. The negative of your method is all users have to have the same software, and absorb the same expense. With my way, users can select whatever software they wish, and only have to be able to create a basic PDF file, which can be done with a free printer driver in Windows, or natively in OS X. One hasn't had to have a printer driver for PDFs since DOS days, and then it had to be a PostScript printer. There are many PDF writing apps available that don't depend on an installed printer at all. Several of them are free. -- best regards, Neil |
#98
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Data Microsoft collects
On 5/26/15 5:31 AM, Neil Gould wrote:
Ken Springer wrote: On 5/25/15 12:25 PM, Neil Gould wrote: Ken Springer wrote: By compare, I meant doing it manually, reading the original first, the suggested change(s) second. If I have two .doc files, I have to have both of them open in separate windows, AFAIK. But if it's an annotated PDF, the original and suggested phrases are displayed in a single document. There are programs designed for collaborative authoring that automate the process and make it very easy to track revisions and versions. FrameMaker is one that has had that ability since at least version 3, which was before Adobe bought Frame, Inc. decades ago. Using Word, PDFs and so on for version tracking is just another way to make life difficult. ;-) I don't doubt there are programs for that. The question is, is the program of enough value to you to justify the purchase? The short answer is, it depends. The cost of the software is fairly irrelevant compared to the inefficiency of "hacked" methods. But, if the document is small, not all that important, and/or has little impact on the company, then it would be hard to justify any investment. OTOH, if the collaborators are spread across the world and are creating documents of value to the company, it's a no-brainer to require the use of such software, as many companies do. I think you've concisely hit the core difference of our viewpoints. :-) We're viewing the issue of being able to put together "something" among a group of people/businesses from different perspectives/needs. You and Char are looking at it as how a large enterprise would do it, say General Motors building a concept car using its worldwide resources. I'm looking at it as a small local contractor who wants to bid a small project, but doesn't have the in house skills needed, so needs to work with other contractors in the area with equally limited resources. And for the one or two yearly projects, can't justify the time and expense of doing it the same as GM. Shoot, one of the may actually hate using computers. LOL I'm also considering this could even be planning the annual family reunion. (I keep getting asked to go to those things, fortunately I manage to avoid them for valid reasons. LOL) The negative of your method is all users have to have the same software, and absorb the same expense. With my way, users can select whatever software they wish, and only have to be able to create a basic PDF file, which can be done with a free printer driver in Windows, or natively in OS X. One hasn't had to have a printer driver for PDFs since DOS days, and then it had to be a PostScript printer. There are many PDF writing apps available that don't depend on an installed printer at all. Several of them are free. By PDF writing apps, I assume you mean Adobe Acrobat type software, albeit free? I've never looked for any of those, the PDF creation items I've needed personally just don't justify the time and effort, especially when an alternative PDF reader often installs a PDF printer driver. For me and my needs, the shortest path to a PDF file is a printer driver. G -- Ken Mac OS X 10.8.5 Firefox 36.0.4 Thunderbird 31.5 "My brain is like lightning, a quick flash and it's gone!" |
#99
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Data Microsoft collects
On 5/26/15 11:17 AM, Neil Gould wrote:
Ken Springer wrote: On 5/26/15 5:31 AM, Neil Gould wrote: Ken Springer wrote: With my way, users can select whatever software they wish, and only have to be able to create a basic PDF file, which can be done with a free printer driver in Windows, or natively in OS X. One hasn't had to have a printer driver for PDFs since DOS days, and then it had to be a PostScript printer. There are many PDF writing apps available that don't depend on an installed printer at all. Several of them are free. By PDF writing apps, I assume you mean Adobe Acrobat type software, albeit free? I've never looked for any of those, the PDF creation items I've needed personally just don't justify the time and effort, especially when an alternative PDF reader often installs a PDF printer driver. For me and my needs, the shortest path to a PDF file is a printer driver. G We may be talking about the same thing. There are apps that can create PDFs from most apps and install the option to select them as a "printer driver", but there is usually not an associated printer that could be driven by its output, ergo, it's not really a printer driver. We may be. In my case, when I open the Print dialogue, in addition to the various printers that may be there, there is a PDF printer listed. Select that, and a PDF file is written to the hard drive. As usual, different drivers here have different PDF creation settings. Unlike my understanding of "apps that can create PDFs from most apps", this way I can create a PDF from any app. OS X, at least starting with 10.5 Leopard, offers this natively in it's Print dialogue. -- Ken Mac OS X 10.8.5 Firefox 36.0.4 Thunderbird 31.5 "My brain is like lightning, a quick flash and it's gone!" |
#100
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Data Microsoft collects
Ken Springer wrote:
On 5/26/15 5:31 AM, Neil Gould wrote: Ken Springer wrote: With my way, users can select whatever software they wish, and only have to be able to create a basic PDF file, which can be done with a free printer driver in Windows, or natively in OS X. One hasn't had to have a printer driver for PDFs since DOS days, and then it had to be a PostScript printer. There are many PDF writing apps available that don't depend on an installed printer at all. Several of them are free. By PDF writing apps, I assume you mean Adobe Acrobat type software, albeit free? I've never looked for any of those, the PDF creation items I've needed personally just don't justify the time and effort, especially when an alternative PDF reader often installs a PDF printer driver. For me and my needs, the shortest path to a PDF file is a printer driver. G We may be talking about the same thing. There are apps that can create PDFs from most apps and install the option to select them as a "printer driver", but there is usually not an associated printer that could be driven by its output, ergo, it's not really a printer driver. -- best regards, Neil |
#101
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Data Microsoft collects
On 23/05/2015 02:17, Keith Nuttle wrote:
snipped Microsoft is changing its Service Agreements effective 01st August, 2015. http://www.microsoft.com/en-gb/servicesagreement#serviceslist quote As part of our effort to improve your experience across our consumer services, we’re updating the Microsoft Services Agreement and the Microsoft Privacy Statement. We want to take this opportunity to notify you about these updates. /quote |
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