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#31
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Is the XP classic start menu back (finally) with Windows 10?
In message , Paul B. Andersen
writes Sure, Linux, even with the new KDE/Unity/Gnome/etc. desktops is still more complex than Windows - but - Windows was never simple itself, so, it really doesn't have a leg up on a modern desktop Linux for usability. In the end, the desktop is merely a platform for running the apps, and, all app functionality (to a more or less degree) are on all platforms. This is where I fundamentally disagree. I do audio, no longer professionally, but I still do it. Linux is horrible for audio routing and control. It has a load of different mixer/driver programs that are not easy or clear to use and which have interactions that sometimes do, sometimes don't. Then there is the question of drivers for semi-pro and pro audio interfaces. Most don't have any working drivers, a few have cobbled together drivers with limitations, very, very few have fully functional drivers that work reliably. That is the sort of area where Windows comes into its own. It can be and is used for recording, editing, theatre sound etc. etc. I am sure there are other areas where Windows has a huge advantage eg a son of mine working with high level maths functionality. He has gone over to Apple because of despair with W8, but he runs virtual Windows on it where he has to. -- Bill |
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#32
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Is the XP classic start menu back (finally) with Windows 10?
Paul B. Andersen wrote:
PeterC wrote in message The Quick-launch Bar. I've, ATM, 13 icons in it! Also have a useful utility that can reduce all the opened programmes to icons in the TaskBar, so plenty of space. BTW, this is XP - one major factor putting me off updating is that my carefully chosen applications and utilities won't work in 7/8/10 (and definietly not in 9!). While I must have about a score of app links in "my" start menu, I only have a small handful pinned to the task bar. For example, a browser (e.g., Firefox), and a mail user agent (e.g., Thunderbird) and a Usenet client (e.g., Pan) and a screenshot capture editor (e.g., Irfanview), and a file system explorer. That's pretty much it. What *else* do you use every single day such that you benefit by pinning it to the taskbar or quick launch bar? NOTE: To open files and documents, I just click or right click on them, e.g., to play an MP3 file I would click on it and Media Player Classic comes up; to edit that same file, I would right click on it and I can select Audacity, etc. So *most* apps come up by clicking on the data file. For all those apps (mostly viewers and editors), there is no need to pin the icon to the taskbar. I largely agree, but... I have (in addition to nine True Launch Bar folders containing about 120 programs etc) fifteen apps pinned to my taskbar. I wouldn't say I used all of them every day but I do use them pretty frequently. Many apps are pinned to the taskbar because I can pin documents to them there, and that's a slicker way of getting at the few documents I use most than navigating to the file and right-clicking. -- Mike Barnes Cheshire, England |
#33
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Is the XP classic start menu back (finally) with Windows 10?
knuttle wrote in message
However in practice the simplest path is to go with MS or Apple as both come preloaded on computers commonly available online and in the office/computer stores. This is true. Until the advent of Ubuntu, Linux was far too much trouble (in comparison). Even now, Linux is just a little bit too much trouble. I agree, Windows is ubiquitous (as is Macintosh) in the stores. Since MS computers are usually about half the cost of an Apple, the cheapest is to go with the MS operating system. That's my argument also, whenever someone asks me whether they should buy Android vs Apple or Microsoft vs Apple. Half the cost for the same amount of compute power (give or take). Both Android & Microsoft are no brainers from the key cost perspective. Yes you do not need to fork over any cash for Linux. However your time is worth something. In my experience to install a new operating system find the drivers, and get it set up for your purposes, takes 3 to 4 hours. That is 3 to 4 hours you must spend to get a Linux computer vs an Apple of MS computer. Actually, it's even worse than you stated, in a way, because all the Linux boxes I have were once Microsoft, so, I've essentially paid for Microsoft in order to get Linux for free. I guess you can buy a linux box in the store and save about a hundred dollars on the operating system, but, I personally have never seen one in the USA where I am. It used to be worse for Linux drivers than it is now. Pretty much, Linux drivers work just fine for all the existing laptop and desktop hardware, right out of the box (IMHO). The one place I still find Linux drivers sometimes lacking is in peripheral hardware such as WiFi adapters and the like (mostly with Realtek chips). Personally I would rather use that time playing solitaire or doing actual work on the computer. Understood. I dual boot, and find Windows a bit easier to manage than Linux - but I find Linux much faster (maybe the lack of an AV program is why Linux *seems* faster - I don't know). But, the learning curve *is* steep. It's not that you can't do anything (you can do far more on Linux than anywhere else); but the program names are all different (so that's a large one-time learning curve, I agree). |
#34
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Is the XP classic start menu back (finally) with Windows 10?
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#35
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Is the XP classic start menu back (finally) with Windows 10?
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#36
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Is the XP classic start menu back (finally) with Windows 10?
Bill wrote in
news Linux is horrible for audio routing and control. It has a load of different mixer/driver programs that are not easy or clear to use and which have interactions that sometimes do, sometimes don't. Then there is the question of drivers for semi-pro and pro audio interfaces. Most don't have any working drivers, a few have cobbled together drivers with limitations, very, very few have fully functional drivers that work reliably. I'd tried to get my son M-Audio interface workng in Linux.....tried. One other area really lacking is Electronics design s/w, specifically, schematic capture and PCB design. Add into that, solid modeling, like SolidWorks, which is the defacto standard for mechanical design, when 3D design is used. Pro-E is another....not used nearly to the extent of SolidWorks, but with Pro-E, there used to be a *nix version, I beleive the last was Pro-E Wildfire 4.....circa 2003, 2004? ...but it was discontinued. |
#37
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Is the XP classic start menu back (finally) with Windows 10?
On 2015-06-10 7:01 PM, Paul B. Andersen wrote:
knuttle wrote in message However in practice the simplest path is to go with MS or Apple as both come preloaded on computers commonly available online and in the office/computer stores. This is true. Until the advent of Ubuntu, Linux was far too much trouble (in comparison). Even now, Linux is just a little bit too much trouble. I agree, Windows is ubiquitous (as is Macintosh) in the stores. Ubuntu was indeed a Godsend and it has made Linux more acceptable for the common user. The problem is that it still has a tremendous amount of problems which appear after an update or two. Disappearing controls, hardware stopped working, no longer able to boot to desktop, functions which are visible but don't actually do anything, etc.. Since MS computers are usually about half the cost of an Apple, the cheapest is to go with the MS operating system. That's my argument also, whenever someone asks me whether they should buy Android vs Apple or Microsoft vs Apple. Half the cost for the same amount of compute power (give or take). Both Android & Microsoft are no brainers from the key cost perspective. 90% of mobile malware attacks Android, 90%+ of desktop malware affects Windows. In a way, you get what you pay for though I have to admit that I've never been infected in Windows. On Android, it's hard to avoid since Google Play serves some of it (despite the company's best efforts). Yes you do not need to fork over any cash for Linux. However your time is worth something. In my experience to install a new operating system find the drivers, and get it set up for your purposes, takes 3 to 4 hours. That is 3 to 4 hours you must spend to get a Linux computer vs an Apple of MS computer. Actually, it's even worse than you stated, in a way, because all the Linux boxes I have were once Microsoft, so, I've essentially paid for Microsoft in order to get Linux for free. I guess you can buy a linux box in the store and save about a hundred dollars on the operating system, but, I personally have never seen one in the USA where I am. It used to be worse for Linux drivers than it is now. Pretty much, Linux drivers work just fine for all the existing laptop and desktop hardware, right out of the box (IMHO). Not on my MSI GT72. It's a mess. The one place I still find Linux drivers sometimes lacking is in peripheral hardware such as WiFi adapters and the like (mostly with Realtek chips). If the chip is recent, chances are that Linux won't have drivers for it. Personally I would rather use that time playing solitaire or doing actual work on the computer. Understood. I dual boot, and find Windows a bit easier to manage than Linux - but I find Linux much faster (maybe the lack of an AV program is why Linux *seems* faster - I don't know). So remove the anti-virus on Windows. Yes, you MIGHT get infected but today's malware requires user intervention and generally, the user has to be one Hell of a ****ing moron. But, the learning curve *is* steep. It's not that you can't do anything (you can do far more on Linux than anywhere else); but the program names are all different (so that's a large one-time learning curve, I agree). And none of the names make any sense except for RhythmBox. Banshee is a music player, Totem is a video player and Midori is a browser. How was anyone supposed to know that without clicking on the app first? -- Slimer Proud "wintroll" Encrypt. |
#38
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Is the XP classic start menu back (finally) with Windows 10?
"Paul B. Andersen" wrote in
: Big_Al wrote in message There is no XP/Win7 type menu Windows 10. What was wrong with the XP "classic" style of menu? Since I had absolutely no problem with it, and since it did what I wanted, the only reason I can think of Redmond ditching it was that *most people* (not me) couldn't figure it out. For me, it was (super) easy to use: 0. I never (ever!) used the default "Programs" menu! 1. I created my own heirarchy and populated it manually. It was that simple. What I liked best was that you could right click at any point in the XP-style cascaded menu, and that allowed you to open it up at that level for edits. That was very nice. I solved the 'Start Menu' program a different way in XP. I wrote my own replacment shell that provided all the functionality of Explorer, but used far less resources. It was middle-click based, all you needed to do was middle-click no matter where you were on the screen, and the DDT shell would show right where you were....no need to move the mouse very much to get to the "Start Menu", task swapper, system tray, etc. There's a custom menu editor that allows you to make you custom menu easily, and choose icons for each item, etc..... https://www.dropbox.com/s/xqrna2a1sv...hell1.wmv?dl=0 (OK, not ALL the functionality of Explorer was provided by the shell itself. It does not support icons on the desktop, or showing you anything at all from the 'desktop' folder. This was by design. One thing that bugs me is people spend all this time finding/making nice pictures for their desktop, but then it's usually covered by a matrix of icons taking up 1/2 the screen. However, there is also a 'desktop' module you can run that does provide the DDT desktop functionality, except, you could have different sized icons, a folder that shows a popup menu of what's inside when clicked, and the ability to place any number of your own images on top of the desktop wherever you wanted them, and they could be moved around, resized, and you could also set the front-to-back order if any were overlapping as well.) |
#40
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Is the XP classic start menu back (finally) with Windows 10?
On 6/10/15 4:16 PM, Paul B. Andersen wrote:
Bill wrote in message I still believe that, if Microsoft made a version of Windows 10 that pulled in all the advantages of previous MS OS's wrt what drivers were supported etc., and that was just an OS with a basic programmable start menu as suggested here, they could sell it. Nomex suit notwithstanding ... Fundamentally, I think operating system desktops have value (e.g., Microsoft Windows or Macintosh whatever-its-called for example), but then you have to contrast that value with the same value provided by a "free" Linux distrubution, e.g., Ubuntu with Unity, KDE or Gnome desktops. All do the exact same thing. The *only* value I can find, literally, for Windows, over Linux is that Windows is the native operating system for MS Office, which, despite the (very) many so-called equivalents, still, for compatibility, you have to have native. I know longer believe this anymore. It all depends on how you structure your team for working together. Which, I've written about before, and not too long ago. So won't belabor the point any more. I'm sure many people will disagree, but, I use both (dual boot) and we all grew up on Windows (or Macintosh), so, if we use Linux, we at least *KNOW* what the differences are. Sure, Linux, even with the new KDE/Unity/Gnome/etc. desktops is still more complex than Windows - but - Windows was never simple itself, so, it really doesn't have a leg up on a modern desktop Linux for usability. In the end, the desktop is merely a platform for running the apps, and, all app functionality (to a more or less degree) are on all platforms. -- Ken Mac OS X 10.8.5 Firefox 36.0.4 Thunderbird 31.5 "My brain is like lightning, a quick flash and it's gone!" |
#41
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Is the XP classic start menu back (finally) with Windows 10?
On 6/10/15 5:01 PM, Paul B. Andersen wrote:
knuttle wrote in message However in practice the simplest path is to go with MS or Apple as both come preloaded on computers commonly available online and in the office/computer stores. This is true. Until the advent of Ubuntu, Linux was far too much trouble (in comparison). Even now, Linux is just a little bit too much trouble. I agree, Windows is ubiquitous (as is Macintosh) in the stores. Since MS computers are usually about half the cost of an Apple, the cheapest is to go with the MS operating system. That's my argument also, whenever someone asks me whether they should buy Android vs Apple or Microsoft vs Apple. Half the cost for the same amount of compute power (give or take). Staying awake from arguments about quality of the components, your reason for buying Windows over Mac makes the assumption the user understands one or the other. I've a friend who could never figure out Windows (I don't know why), but has no problems with Macs. You need to factor in ease of use for the new owner as well as the cost, and determine where the cost/benefit lies for the new user. Both Android & Microsoft are no brainers from the key cost perspective. Yes you do not need to fork over any cash for Linux. However your time is worth something. In my experience to install a new operating system find the drivers, and get it set up for your purposes, takes 3 to 4 hours. That is 3 to 4 hours you must spend to get a Linux computer vs an Apple of MS computer. Actually, it's even worse than you stated, in a way, because all the Linux boxes I have were once Microsoft, so, I've essentially paid for Microsoft in order to get Linux for free. I guess you can buy a linux box in the store and save about a hundred dollars on the operating system, but, I personally have never seen one in the USA where I am. Walmart and Dell used to sell Linux boxes, but I don't think they still do. As did HP I just discovered. Don't forget the folks who like to assemble their own units, I suspect those individuals would search out hardware that offered no problems. It used to be worse for Linux drivers than it is now. Pretty much, Linux drivers work just fine for all the existing laptop and desktop hardware, right out of the box (IMHO). The one place I still find Linux drivers sometimes lacking is in peripheral hardware such as WiFi adapters and the like (mostly with Realtek chips). Personally I would rather use that time playing solitaire or doing actual work on the computer. Understood. I dual boot, and find Windows a bit easier to manage than Linux - but I find Linux much faster (maybe the lack of an AV program is why Linux *seems* faster - I don't know). But, the learning curve *is* steep. It's not that you can't do anything (you can do far more on Linux than anywhere else); but the program names are all different (so that's a large one-time learning curve, I agree). I've often wondered about this, how steep the learning curve is. I wonder how much of the learning curve is affected by having to "unlearn" the way things are done in Windows and Mac. That was something of an issue with me when switching to OS X. -- Ken Mac OS X 10.8.5 Firefox 36.0.4 Thunderbird 31.5 "My brain is like lightning, a quick flash and it's gone!" |
#42
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Is the XP classic start menu back (finally) with Windows 10?
On 6/10/15 6:05 PM, Slimer wrote:
But, the learning curve*is* steep. It's not that you can't do anything (you can do far more on Linux than anywhere else); but the program names are all different (so that's a large one-time learning curve, I agree). And none of the names make any sense except for RhythmBox. Banshee is a music player, Totem is a video player and Midori is a browser. How was anyone supposed to know that without clicking on the app first? And the names Firefox and Opera tell you it's a browser? LOL -- Ken Mac OS X 10.8.5 Firefox 36.0.4 Thunderbird 31.5 "My brain is like lightning, a quick flash and it's gone!" |
#43
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Is the XP classic start menu back (finally) with Windows 10?
On Wed, 10 Jun 2015 22:23:27 +0000 (UTC), Paul B. Andersen wrote:
The Quick-launch Bar. I've, ATM, 13 icons in it! Also have a useful utility that can reduce all the opened programmes to icons in the TaskBar, so plenty of space. BTW, this is XP - one major factor putting me off updating is that my carefully chosen applications and utilities won't work in 7/8/10 (and definietly not in 9!). While I must have about a score of app links in "my" start menu, I only have a small handful pinned to the task bar. For example, a browser (e.g., Firefox), and a mail user agent (e.g., Thunderbird) and a Usenet client (e.g., Pan) and a screenshot capture editor (e.g., Irfanview), and a file system explorer. That's pretty much it. What *else* do you use every single day such that you benefit by pinning it to the taskbar or quick launch bar? rowser (Pale Moon), T'bird, XYPlorer, Dialog, MPC, TV Browser, Starter, RadioSure, AutoRoute, a reg. editor, command prompt and Show Desktop! For others I use RunIt. -- Peter. The gods will stay away whilst religions hold sway |
#44
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Is the XP classic start menu back (finally) with Windows 10?
In message , Paul B. Andersen
writes On Windows, the equivalent, for me, would be Audacity & Super (I have one of the last real freeware versions). Plus a Klite-codec pack, and I'm good to go. I never edited on Windows but I'd probably just use the free Microsoft Movie Maker and maybe VLC. Just a small anecdote as a slight warning note. Friend of mine has recorded a huge number of interviews as part of his radio show over the years. He is now well into his 80's. Someone had taken one of his interviews and used a Mac to put it online. The friend asked me to listen to it, not for the copyright violation, but for the audio quality. I downloaded the file, but couldn't analyse it in the format. It did sound distorted. I ran it through Super to convert it. It was even more distorted. I had to install and use an iTunes converter to convert it cleanly and see the original distortion. I sent a report via my friend about where in the chain the distortion was likely to have occurred. He passed it on. The file miraculously returned to decent quality. The Apple man rang me and said I didn't know what I was talking about - it had always been fine. I remain suspicious of Apple fans. And Super. -- Bill |
#45
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Is the XP classic start menu back (finally) with Windows 10?
On 2015-06-10 9:44 PM, Dave Doe wrote:
In article , , Paul B. Andersen says... Dave Doe wrote in message The good thing is, Windows 10 is free. And I reckon after a year, MS will leave it that way. Desktop OS's don't have any monetary value anymore IMO. Pretty much there's nothing in Windows' desktops that Linux desktops don't already have, so, I would tend to agree with you since Linux desktops are free. There is *heaps* in the Windows 7, 8.1, 10 desktop GUI that Linux doesn't have! Linux GUI's are so immature. I don't understand why the Linux dev team don't put more into that. I think it's vital. **** the command line If you can suggest or recommend a nice Linux GUI, I'm all ears. But Gnome and KDE are truly ****en horrible. Not gonna go into the details, just express my opinion GNOME 3 is honestly as good as it gets in my opinion. If you're willing to learn and appreciate how it works, it's surprisingly intuitive. Nevertheless, I agree with you about maturity. As a result of the fact that these Linux losers insist on working on a dozen or more desktop environments rather than focusing all of their energy on one or two, the developers are spread thin and adding feature or correcting ones which don't work either doesn't happen or takes time. GNOME would be much better if Ubuntu hadn't insisted on creating Unity and KDE would be a lot more stable if the people behind say XFCE or GNOME pooled their efforts towards improving it. It's hard to build a decent car if everyone in the company is building their own vehicle. -- Slimer Proud "wintroll" Encrypt. |
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