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Is the XP classic start menu back (finally) with Windows 10?



 
 
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  #31  
Old June 10th 15, 11:42 PM posted to alt.windows7.general,alt.windows-xp,alt.comp.os.windows-8
Bill[_40_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 346
Default Is the XP classic start menu back (finally) with Windows 10?

In message , Paul B. Andersen
writes
Sure, Linux, even with the new KDE/Unity/Gnome/etc. desktops is still
more complex than Windows - but - Windows was never simple itself, so,
it really doesn't have a leg up on a modern desktop Linux for usability.

In the end, the desktop is merely a platform for running the apps, and,
all app functionality (to a more or less degree) are on all platforms.


This is where I fundamentally disagree.

I do audio, no longer professionally, but I still do it.

Linux is horrible for audio routing and control. It has a load of
different mixer/driver programs that are not easy or clear to use and
which have interactions that sometimes do, sometimes don't.

Then there is the question of drivers for semi-pro and pro audio
interfaces. Most don't have any working drivers, a few have cobbled
together drivers with limitations, very, very few have fully functional
drivers that work reliably.

That is the sort of area where Windows comes into its own. It can be and
is used for recording, editing, theatre sound etc. etc. I am sure there
are other areas where Windows has a huge advantage eg a son of mine
working with high level maths functionality. He has gone over to Apple
because of despair with W8, but he runs virtual Windows on it where he
has to.
--
Bill
Ads
  #32  
Old June 11th 15, 12:00 AM posted to alt.windows7.general,alt.windows-xp,alt.comp.os.windows-8
Mike Barnes[_2_]
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Posts: 537
Default Is the XP classic start menu back (finally) with Windows 10?

Paul B. Andersen wrote:
PeterC wrote in message


The Quick-launch Bar. I've, ATM, 13 icons in it! Also have a useful utility
that can reduce all the opened programmes to icons in the TaskBar, so plenty
of space. BTW, this is XP - one major factor putting me off updating is that
my carefully chosen applications and utilities won't work in 7/8/10 (and
definietly not in 9!).


While I must have about a score of app links in "my" start menu, I only
have a small handful pinned to the task bar.

For example, a browser (e.g., Firefox), and a mail user agent (e.g.,
Thunderbird) and a Usenet client (e.g., Pan) and a screenshot capture
editor (e.g., Irfanview), and a file system explorer.

That's pretty much it.

What *else* do you use every single day such that you benefit by pinning
it to the taskbar or quick launch bar?

NOTE: To open files and documents, I just click or right click on them,
e.g., to play an MP3 file I would click on it and Media Player Classic
comes up; to edit that same file, I would right click on it and I can
select Audacity, etc.

So *most* apps come up by clicking on the data file. For all those apps
(mostly viewers and editors), there is no need to pin the icon to the
taskbar.


I largely agree, but...

I have (in addition to nine True Launch Bar folders containing about 120
programs etc) fifteen apps pinned to my taskbar. I wouldn't say I used
all of them every day but I do use them pretty frequently. Many apps are
pinned to the taskbar because I can pin documents to them there, and
that's a slicker way of getting at the few documents I use most than
navigating to the file and right-clicking.

--
Mike Barnes
Cheshire, England
  #33  
Old June 11th 15, 12:01 AM posted to alt.windows7.general,alt.windows-xp,alt.comp.os.windows-8
Paul B. Andersen
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Posts: 36
Default Is the XP classic start menu back (finally) with Windows 10?

knuttle wrote in message


However in practice the simplest path is to go with MS or Apple as both
come preloaded on computers commonly available online and in the
office/computer stores.


This is true.
Until the advent of Ubuntu, Linux was far too much trouble (in comparison).
Even now, Linux is just a little bit too much trouble.
I agree, Windows is ubiquitous (as is Macintosh) in the stores.

Since MS computers are usually about half the cost of an Apple, the
cheapest is to go with the MS operating system.


That's my argument also, whenever someone asks me whether they should
buy Android vs Apple or Microsoft vs Apple. Half the cost for the same
amount of compute power (give or take).

Both Android & Microsoft are no brainers from the key cost perspective.

Yes you do not need to fork over any cash for Linux. However your time
is worth something. In my experience to install a new operating system
find the drivers, and get it set up for your purposes, takes 3 to 4
hours. That is 3 to 4 hours you must spend to get a Linux computer vs
an Apple of MS computer.


Actually, it's even worse than you stated, in a way, because all the Linux
boxes I have were once Microsoft, so, I've essentially paid for Microsoft
in order to get Linux for free. I guess you can buy a linux box in the
store and save about a hundred dollars on the operating system, but, I
personally have never seen one in the USA where I am.

It used to be worse for Linux drivers than it is now. Pretty much, Linux
drivers work just fine for all the existing laptop and desktop hardware,
right out of the box (IMHO).

The one place I still find Linux drivers sometimes lacking is in peripheral
hardware such as WiFi adapters and the like (mostly with Realtek chips).

Personally I would rather use that time playing solitaire or doing
actual work on the computer.


Understood. I dual boot, and find Windows a bit easier to manage than
Linux - but I find Linux much faster (maybe the lack of an AV program
is why Linux *seems* faster - I don't know).

But, the learning curve *is* steep. It's not that you can't do anything
(you can do far more on Linux than anywhere else); but the program names
are all different (so that's a large one-time learning curve, I agree).
  #34  
Old June 11th 15, 12:09 AM posted to alt.windows7.general,alt.windows-xp,alt.comp.os.windows-8
Paul B. Andersen
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Posts: 36
Default Is the XP classic start menu back (finally) with Windows 10?

Bill wrote in message


I do audio, no longer professionally, but I still do it.

Linux is horrible for audio routing and control. It has a load of
different mixer/driver programs that are not easy or clear to use and
which have interactions that sometimes do, sometimes don't.


You make a good case that Linux is far inferior to Windows for audio
work.

Me? I use Audacity to modify files, with a lame and MP3 plugin, and
pretty much, that works for me. I use Handbrake to convert from any
format to any other format.

When the going gets rough, I use ffmpeg on Linux to capture sounds and
video and to convert to individual frames and to create animated GIFs,
etc. I do agree that installing ffmpeg was a royal pain on Kubuntu
because I had to manually compile (which is a rarity nowadays).

1. I had to install the libx264 H.264 video encoder.
2. Then I had to install the libfdk-aac AAC audio encoder.
3. Then the libmp3lame MP3 audio encoder.
4. Then the libopus Opus audio decoder and encoder.
5. And the libvpx VP8/VP9 video encoder and decoder.
6. And finally the libvpx VP8/VP9 video encoder and decoder:

Had I not followed a precise tutorial, I would never have been able
to accomplish the task of successfully compiling ffmpeg.

Such an effort rarely happens with Windows apps nowadays,
I agree.

On Windows, the equivalent, for me, would be Audacity & Super (I have
one of the last real freeware versions). Plus a Klite-codec pack, and
I'm good to go. I never edited on Windows but I'd probably just use
the free Microsoft Movie Maker and maybe VLC.

  #35  
Old June 11th 15, 12:18 AM posted to alt.windows7.general,alt.windows-xp,alt.comp.os.windows-8
pjp[_10_]
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Posts: 1,183
Default Is the XP classic start menu back (finally) with Windows 10?

In article ,
says...

Bill wrote in message


I still believe that, if Microsoft made a version of Windows 10 that
pulled in all the advantages of previous MS OS's wrt what drivers were
supported etc., and that was just an OS with a basic programmable start
menu as suggested here, they could sell it.


Nomex suit notwithstanding ...

Fundamentally, I think operating system desktops have value (e.g.,
Microsoft Windows or Macintosh whatever-its-called for example), but then
you have to contrast that value with the same value provided by a
"free" Linux distrubution, e.g., Ubuntu with Unity, KDE or Gnome desktops.

All do the exact same thing.

The *only* value I can find, literally, for Windows, over Linux is that
Windows is the native operating system for MS Office, which, despite the
(very) many so-called equivalents, still, for compatibility, you have to
have native.

I'm sure many people will disagree, but, I use both (dual boot) and we
all grew up on Windows (or Macintosh), so, if we use Linux, we at least
*KNOW* what the differences are.

Sure, Linux, even with the new KDE/Unity/Gnome/etc. desktops is still
more complex than Windows - but - Windows was never simple itself, so,
it really doesn't have a leg up on a modern desktop Linux for usability.

In the end, the desktop is merely a platform for running the apps, and,
all app functionality (to a more or less degree) are on all platforms.


I would suggest Linux would be a lot further along if one could get the
same versions of the same games on either OS, especially the heavy
hitters like Medal Of Honor, Call Of Duty, Grand Theft Auto series',
etc. games.
  #36  
Old June 11th 15, 01:02 AM posted to alt.windows7.general,alt.windows-xp,alt.comp.os.windows-8
DanS[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,021
Default Is the XP classic start menu back (finally) with Windows 10?

Bill wrote in
news

Linux is horrible for audio routing and control. It has a
load of different mixer/driver programs that are not easy
or clear to use and which have interactions that sometimes
do, sometimes don't.

Then there is the question of drivers for semi-pro and pro
audio interfaces. Most don't have any working drivers, a
few have cobbled together drivers with limitations, very,
very few have fully functional drivers that work reliably.


I'd tried to get my son M-Audio interface workng in Linux.....tried.

One other area really lacking is Electronics design s/w, specifically, schematic capture
and PCB design.

Add into that, solid modeling, like SolidWorks, which is the defacto standard for
mechanical design, when 3D design is used. Pro-E is another....not used nearly to the
extent of SolidWorks, but with Pro-E, there used to be a *nix version, I beleive the last
was Pro-E Wildfire 4.....circa 2003, 2004? ...but it was discontinued.



  #37  
Old June 11th 15, 01:05 AM posted to alt.windows7.general,alt.windows-xp,alt.comp.os.windows-8
Slimer
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 300
Default Is the XP classic start menu back (finally) with Windows 10?

On 2015-06-10 7:01 PM, Paul B. Andersen wrote:
knuttle wrote in message


However in practice the simplest path is to go with MS or Apple as both
come preloaded on computers commonly available online and in the
office/computer stores.


This is true.
Until the advent of Ubuntu, Linux was far too much trouble (in comparison).
Even now, Linux is just a little bit too much trouble.
I agree, Windows is ubiquitous (as is Macintosh) in the stores.


Ubuntu was indeed a Godsend and it has made Linux more acceptable for
the common user. The problem is that it still has a tremendous amount of
problems which appear after an update or two. Disappearing controls,
hardware stopped working, no longer able to boot to desktop, functions
which are visible but don't actually do anything, etc..

Since MS computers are usually about half the cost of an Apple, the
cheapest is to go with the MS operating system.


That's my argument also, whenever someone asks me whether they should
buy Android vs Apple or Microsoft vs Apple. Half the cost for the same
amount of compute power (give or take).

Both Android & Microsoft are no brainers from the key cost perspective.


90% of mobile malware attacks Android, 90%+ of desktop malware affects
Windows. In a way, you get what you pay for though I have to admit that
I've never been infected in Windows. On Android, it's hard to avoid
since Google Play serves some of it (despite the company's best efforts).

Yes you do not need to fork over any cash for Linux. However your time
is worth something. In my experience to install a new operating system
find the drivers, and get it set up for your purposes, takes 3 to 4
hours. That is 3 to 4 hours you must spend to get a Linux computer vs
an Apple of MS computer.


Actually, it's even worse than you stated, in a way, because all the Linux
boxes I have were once Microsoft, so, I've essentially paid for Microsoft
in order to get Linux for free. I guess you can buy a linux box in the
store and save about a hundred dollars on the operating system, but, I
personally have never seen one in the USA where I am.

It used to be worse for Linux drivers than it is now. Pretty much, Linux
drivers work just fine for all the existing laptop and desktop hardware,
right out of the box (IMHO).


Not on my MSI GT72. It's a mess.

The one place I still find Linux drivers sometimes lacking is in peripheral
hardware such as WiFi adapters and the like (mostly with Realtek chips).


If the chip is recent, chances are that Linux won't have drivers for it.

Personally I would rather use that time playing solitaire or doing
actual work on the computer.


Understood. I dual boot, and find Windows a bit easier to manage than
Linux - but I find Linux much faster (maybe the lack of an AV program
is why Linux *seems* faster - I don't know).


So remove the anti-virus on Windows. Yes, you MIGHT get infected but
today's malware requires user intervention and generally, the user has
to be one Hell of a ****ing moron.

But, the learning curve *is* steep. It's not that you can't do anything
(you can do far more on Linux than anywhere else); but the program names
are all different (so that's a large one-time learning curve, I agree).


And none of the names make any sense except for RhythmBox. Banshee is a
music player, Totem is a video player and Midori is a browser. How was
anyone supposed to know that without clicking on the app first?

--
Slimer
Proud "wintroll"
Encrypt.
  #38  
Old June 11th 15, 01:25 AM posted to alt.windows7.general,alt.windows-xp,alt.comp.os.windows-8
DanS[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,021
Default Is the XP classic start menu back (finally) with Windows 10?

"Paul B. Andersen" wrote in
:

Big_Al wrote in message


There is no XP/Win7 type menu Windows 10.


What was wrong with the XP "classic" style of menu?

Since I had absolutely no problem with it, and since it did
what I wanted, the only reason I can think of Redmond
ditching it was that *most people* (not me) couldn't figure
it out.

For me, it was (super) easy to use:
0. I never (ever!) used the default "Programs" menu!
1. I created my own heirarchy and populated it manually.

It was that simple.

What I liked best was that you could right click at any
point in the XP-style cascaded menu, and that allowed you
to open it up at that level for edits.

That was very nice.


I solved the 'Start Menu' program a different way in XP. I wrote my own replacment
shell that provided all the functionality of Explorer, but used far less resources. It was
middle-click based, all you needed to do was middle-click no matter where you were
on the screen, and the DDT shell would show right where you were....no need to move
the mouse very much to get to the "Start Menu", task swapper, system tray, etc.
There's a custom menu editor that allows you to make you custom menu easily, and
choose icons for each item, etc.....

https://www.dropbox.com/s/xqrna2a1sv...hell1.wmv?dl=0


(OK, not ALL the functionality of Explorer was provided by the shell itself. It does not
support icons on the desktop, or showing you anything at all from the 'desktop' folder.
This was by design. One thing that bugs me is people spend all this time
finding/making nice pictures for their desktop, but then it's usually covered by a matrix
of icons taking up 1/2 the screen. However, there is also a 'desktop' module you can
run that does provide the DDT desktop functionality, except, you could have different
sized icons, a folder that shows a popup menu of what's inside when clicked, and the
ability to place any number of your own images on top of the desktop wherever you
wanted them, and they could be moved around, resized, and you could also set the
front-to-back order if any were overlapping as well.)
  #40  
Old June 11th 15, 03:02 AM posted to alt.windows7.general,alt.windows-xp,alt.comp.os.windows-8
Ken Springer[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,817
Default Is the XP classic start menu back (finally) with Windows 10?

On 6/10/15 4:16 PM, Paul B. Andersen wrote:
Bill wrote in message


I still believe that, if Microsoft made a version of Windows 10 that
pulled in all the advantages of previous MS OS's wrt what drivers were
supported etc., and that was just an OS with a basic programmable start
menu as suggested here, they could sell it.


Nomex suit notwithstanding ...

Fundamentally, I think operating system desktops have value (e.g.,
Microsoft Windows or Macintosh whatever-its-called for example), but then
you have to contrast that value with the same value provided by a
"free" Linux distrubution, e.g., Ubuntu with Unity, KDE or Gnome desktops.

All do the exact same thing.

The *only* value I can find, literally, for Windows, over Linux is that
Windows is the native operating system for MS Office, which, despite the
(very) many so-called equivalents, still, for compatibility, you have to
have native.


I know longer believe this anymore. It all depends on how you structure
your team for working together. Which, I've written about before, and
not too long ago. So won't belabor the point any more.

I'm sure many people will disagree, but, I use both (dual boot) and we
all grew up on Windows (or Macintosh), so, if we use Linux, we at least
*KNOW* what the differences are.

Sure, Linux, even with the new KDE/Unity/Gnome/etc. desktops is still
more complex than Windows - but - Windows was never simple itself, so,
it really doesn't have a leg up on a modern desktop Linux for usability.

In the end, the desktop is merely a platform for running the apps, and,
all app functionality (to a more or less degree) are on all platforms.



--
Ken
Mac OS X 10.8.5
Firefox 36.0.4
Thunderbird 31.5
"My brain is like lightning, a quick flash
and it's gone!"
  #41  
Old June 11th 15, 03:15 AM posted to alt.windows7.general,alt.windows-xp,alt.comp.os.windows-8
Ken Springer[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,817
Default Is the XP classic start menu back (finally) with Windows 10?

On 6/10/15 5:01 PM, Paul B. Andersen wrote:
knuttle wrote in message


However in practice the simplest path is to go with MS or Apple as both
come preloaded on computers commonly available online and in the
office/computer stores.


This is true.
Until the advent of Ubuntu, Linux was far too much trouble (in comparison).
Even now, Linux is just a little bit too much trouble.
I agree, Windows is ubiquitous (as is Macintosh) in the stores.

Since MS computers are usually about half the cost of an Apple, the
cheapest is to go with the MS operating system.


That's my argument also, whenever someone asks me whether they should
buy Android vs Apple or Microsoft vs Apple. Half the cost for the same
amount of compute power (give or take).


Staying awake from arguments about quality of the components, your
reason for buying Windows over Mac makes the assumption the user
understands one or the other. I've a friend who could never figure out
Windows (I don't know why), but has no problems with Macs. You need to
factor in ease of use for the new owner as well as the cost, and
determine where the cost/benefit lies for the new user.

Both Android & Microsoft are no brainers from the key cost perspective.

Yes you do not need to fork over any cash for Linux. However your time
is worth something. In my experience to install a new operating system
find the drivers, and get it set up for your purposes, takes 3 to 4
hours. That is 3 to 4 hours you must spend to get a Linux computer vs
an Apple of MS computer.


Actually, it's even worse than you stated, in a way, because all the Linux
boxes I have were once Microsoft, so, I've essentially paid for Microsoft
in order to get Linux for free. I guess you can buy a linux box in the
store and save about a hundred dollars on the operating system, but, I
personally have never seen one in the USA where I am.


Walmart and Dell used to sell Linux boxes, but I don't think they still
do. As did HP I just discovered.

Don't forget the folks who like to assemble their own units, I suspect
those individuals would search out hardware that offered no problems.

It used to be worse for Linux drivers than it is now. Pretty much, Linux
drivers work just fine for all the existing laptop and desktop hardware,
right out of the box (IMHO).

The one place I still find Linux drivers sometimes lacking is in peripheral
hardware such as WiFi adapters and the like (mostly with Realtek chips).

Personally I would rather use that time playing solitaire or doing
actual work on the computer.


Understood. I dual boot, and find Windows a bit easier to manage than
Linux - but I find Linux much faster (maybe the lack of an AV program
is why Linux *seems* faster - I don't know).

But, the learning curve *is* steep. It's not that you can't do anything
(you can do far more on Linux than anywhere else); but the program names
are all different (so that's a large one-time learning curve, I agree).


I've often wondered about this, how steep the learning curve is. I
wonder how much of the learning curve is affected by having to "unlearn"
the way things are done in Windows and Mac. That was something of an
issue with me when switching to OS X.


--
Ken
Mac OS X 10.8.5
Firefox 36.0.4
Thunderbird 31.5
"My brain is like lightning, a quick flash
and it's gone!"
  #42  
Old June 11th 15, 03:18 AM posted to alt.windows7.general,alt.windows-xp,alt.comp.os.windows-8
Ken Springer[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,817
Default Is the XP classic start menu back (finally) with Windows 10?

On 6/10/15 6:05 PM, Slimer wrote:
But, the learning curve*is* steep. It's not that you can't do anything
(you can do far more on Linux than anywhere else); but the program names
are all different (so that's a large one-time learning curve, I agree).

And none of the names make any sense except for RhythmBox. Banshee is a
music player, Totem is a video player and Midori is a browser. How was
anyone supposed to know that without clicking on the app first?


And the names Firefox and Opera tell you it's a browser? LOL

--
Ken
Mac OS X 10.8.5
Firefox 36.0.4
Thunderbird 31.5
"My brain is like lightning, a quick flash
and it's gone!"
  #43  
Old June 11th 15, 09:59 AM posted to alt.windows7.general,alt.windows-xp,alt.comp.os.windows-8
PeterC
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Posts: 98
Default Is the XP classic start menu back (finally) with Windows 10?

On Wed, 10 Jun 2015 22:23:27 +0000 (UTC), Paul B. Andersen wrote:

The Quick-launch Bar. I've, ATM, 13 icons in it! Also have a useful utility
that can reduce all the opened programmes to icons in the TaskBar, so plenty
of space. BTW, this is XP - one major factor putting me off updating is that
my carefully chosen applications and utilities won't work in 7/8/10 (and
definietly not in 9!).


While I must have about a score of app links in "my" start menu, I only
have a small handful pinned to the task bar.

For example, a browser (e.g., Firefox), and a mail user agent (e.g.,
Thunderbird) and a Usenet client (e.g., Pan) and a screenshot capture
editor (e.g., Irfanview), and a file system explorer.

That's pretty much it.

What *else* do you use every single day such that you benefit by pinning
it to the taskbar or quick launch bar?


rowser (Pale Moon), T'bird, XYPlorer, Dialog, MPC, TV Browser, Starter,
RadioSure, AutoRoute, a reg. editor, command prompt and Show Desktop!

For others I use RunIt.
--
Peter.
The gods will stay away
whilst religions hold sway
  #44  
Old June 11th 15, 10:47 AM posted to alt.windows7.general,alt.windows-xp,alt.comp.os.windows-8
Bill[_40_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 346
Default Is the XP classic start menu back (finally) with Windows 10?

In message , Paul B. Andersen
writes
On Windows, the equivalent, for me, would be Audacity & Super (I have
one of the last real freeware versions). Plus a Klite-codec pack, and
I'm good to go. I never edited on Windows but I'd probably just use the
free Microsoft Movie Maker and maybe VLC.


Just a small anecdote as a slight warning note. Friend of mine has
recorded a huge number of interviews as part of his radio show over the
years. He is now well into his 80's.
Someone had taken one of his interviews and used a Mac to put it online.
The friend asked me to listen to it, not for the copyright violation,
but for the audio quality.
I downloaded the file, but couldn't analyse it in the format. It did
sound distorted.
I ran it through Super to convert it. It was even more distorted. I had
to install and use an iTunes converter to convert it cleanly and see the
original distortion.
I sent a report via my friend about where in the chain the distortion
was likely to have occurred. He passed it on. The file miraculously
returned to decent quality. The Apple man rang me and said I didn't know
what I was talking about - it had always been fine.

I remain suspicious of Apple fans. And Super.

--
Bill
  #45  
Old June 11th 15, 01:47 PM posted to alt.windows7.general,alt.windows-xp,alt.comp.os.windows-8
Slimer
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Posts: 300
Default Is the XP classic start menu back (finally) with Windows 10?

On 2015-06-10 9:44 PM, Dave Doe wrote:
In article , , Paul
B. Andersen says...

Dave Doe wrote in message


The good thing is, Windows 10 is free. And I reckon after a year, MS
will leave it that way. Desktop OS's don't have any monetary value
anymore IMO.


Pretty much there's nothing in Windows' desktops that Linux desktops
don't already have, so, I would tend to agree with you since Linux
desktops are free.


There is *heaps* in the Windows 7, 8.1, 10 desktop GUI that Linux
doesn't have!

Linux GUI's are so immature. I don't understand why the Linux dev team
don't put more into that. I think it's vital.
**** the command line

If you can suggest or recommend a nice Linux GUI, I'm all ears. But
Gnome and KDE are truly ****en horrible. Not gonna go into the details,
just express my opinion


GNOME 3 is honestly as good as it gets in my opinion. If you're willing
to learn and appreciate how it works, it's surprisingly intuitive.
Nevertheless, I agree with you about maturity. As a result of the fact
that these Linux losers insist on working on a dozen or more desktop
environments rather than focusing all of their energy on one or two, the
developers are spread thin and adding feature or correcting ones which
don't work either doesn't happen or takes time. GNOME would be much
better if Ubuntu hadn't insisted on creating Unity and KDE would be a
lot more stable if the people behind say XFCE or GNOME pooled their
efforts towards improving it.

It's hard to build a decent car if everyone in the company is building
their own vehicle.



--
Slimer
Proud "wintroll"
Encrypt.
 




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