Concerned

Ever wonder if somehow, the content of your hard drive could be
being 'tapped' to the outside world (cloud) via the router in the
background? Maybe in brief, small, snatches so you wouldn't notice
it? Maybe during a Macrium backup?

How wud one know?

JW

wrote:

Ever wonder if somehow, the content of your hard drive could be
being 'tapped' to the outside world (cloud) via the router in the
background? Maybe in brief, small, snatches so you wouldn't notice
it? Maybe during a Macrium backup?

How wud one know?

JW

For a naive attack of that form, using a product
like ZoneAlarm would tell you. Any time an "unknown"
process attempts to use the Internet, you give your permission.

However, all Microsoft telemetry cannot be blocked this
way. The Microsoft telemetry addresses, cannot even
be blocked by the HOSTS file. Only an external filter
can remove that. Microsoft telemetry also cannot be
stopped by removing DNS, as Microsoft has numeric IPs
it can use for this communication (to the Vortex server).

If I wanted to siphon info from your machine, I would
disguise the executable so it "looks" like some other
executable that already had permission.

The Windows outgoing firewall is programmable, and Microsoft
has already punched holes for some of their installed
stuff. For example, someone finds six rules for Microsoft
Sticky Notes (one would presume, to let it through the Firewall).
Apparently, using the proper uninstall procedures for
things like that (not just deleting some files),
also removes the Firewall rules.

https://www.tenforums.com/antivirus-...all-rules.html

And I doubt Microsoft would specifically list their telemetry
ones.

*******

If you haven't seen a Windows Firewall prompt yet, are
you sure yours is turned on ? I think I've seen a couple
attempts, by programs I've installed, to open a connection,
and the Windows Firewall prompts for permission. This is
similar to what ZoneAlarm would do. The difference is,
ZoneAlarm would probably prompt for *everything* the
first time, so you would feel "more protected" by
having to tick "OK" over and over again. The Windows
Firewall would at least already have Sticky Notes "pre-approved" :-)

Paul

On 12/26/2017 6:57 AM, Paul wrote:
wrote:

Ever wonder if somehow,Â*Â* the content of your hard drive could be
being 'tapped' to the outside world (cloud) via the router in the
background?Â* Maybe in brief, small, snatches so you wouldn't notice
it?Â* Maybe during a Macrium backup?

How wud one know?

JW

For a naive attack of that form, using a product
like ZoneAlarm would tell you. Any time an "unknown"
process attempts to use the Internet, you give your permission.

However, all Microsoft telemetry cannot be blocked this
way. The Microsoft telemetry addresses, cannot even
be blocked by the HOSTS file. Only an external filter
can remove that. Microsoft telemetry also cannot be
stopped by removing DNS, as Microsoft has numeric IPs
it can use for this communication (to the Vortex server).

If I wanted to siphon info from your machine, I would
disguise the executable so it "looks" like some other
executable that already had permission.

The Windows outgoing firewall is programmable, and Microsoft
has already punched holes for some of their installed
stuff. For example, someone finds six rules for Microsoft
Sticky Notes (one would presume, to let it through the Firewall).
Apparently, using the proper uninstall procedures for
things like that (not just deleting some files),
also removes the Firewall rules.

https://www.tenforums.com/antivirus-...all-rules.html


And I doubt Microsoft would specifically list their telemetry
ones.

*******

If you haven't seen a Windows Firewall prompt yet, are
you sure yours is turned on ? I think I've seen a couple
attempts, by programs I've installed, to open a connection,
and the Windows Firewall prompts for permission. This is
similar to what ZoneAlarm would do. The difference is,
ZoneAlarm would probably prompt for *everything* the
first time, so you would feel "more protected" by
having to tick "OK" over and over again. The Windows
Firewall would at least already have Sticky Notes "pre-approved" :-)

Â*Â* Paul
The best security is to delete all programs that you do not need from
your computer, and only install those programs that you need.

The next security rule is turn off you computer when you are not using
it. Have it turn on only whey you need it.

Finally turn off the wireless lan and disable the hard wired connection
when you are not using the internet


--
2017: The year we learn to play the great game of Euchre

On Tue, 26 Dec 2017 07:04:42 -0500, Keith Nuttle
wrote:

On 12/26/2017 6:57 AM, Paul wrote:
wrote:

Ever wonder if somehow,** the content of your hard drive could be
being 'tapped' to the outside world (cloud) via the router in the
background?* Maybe in brief, small, snatches so you wouldn't notice
it?* Maybe during a Macrium backup?

How wud one know?

JW

For a naive attack of that form, using a product
like ZoneAlarm would tell you. Any time an "unknown"
process attempts to use the Internet, you give your permission.

However, all Microsoft telemetry cannot be blocked this
way. The Microsoft telemetry addresses, cannot even
be blocked by the HOSTS file. Only an external filter
can remove that. Microsoft telemetry also cannot be
stopped by removing DNS, as Microsoft has numeric IPs
it can use for this communication (to the Vortex server).

If I wanted to siphon info from your machine, I would
disguise the executable so it "looks" like some other
executable that already had permission.

The Windows outgoing firewall is programmable, and Microsoft
has already punched holes for some of their installed
stuff. For example, someone finds six rules for Microsoft
Sticky Notes (one would presume, to let it through the Firewall).
Apparently, using the proper uninstall procedures for
things like that (not just deleting some files),
also removes the Firewall rules.

https://www.tenforums.com/antivirus-...all-rules.html


And I doubt Microsoft would specifically list their telemetry
ones.

*******

If you haven't seen a Windows Firewall prompt yet, are
you sure yours is turned on ? I think I've seen a couple
attempts, by programs I've installed, to open a connection,
and the Windows Firewall prompts for permission. This is
similar to what ZoneAlarm would do. The difference is,
ZoneAlarm would probably prompt for *everything* the
first time, so you would feel "more protected" by
having to tick "OK" over and over again. The Windows
Firewall would at least already have Sticky Notes "pre-approved" :-)

** Paul


The best security is to delete all programs that you do not need from
your computer, and only install those programs that you need.

This wud take me some effort and time.


The next security rule is turn off you computer when you are not using
it. Have it turn on only whey you need it.

This seems an easy safeguard.


Finally turn off the wireless lan and disable the hard wired connection
when you are not using the internet

I always try to pull the cat5. But my router is co-used by house TVs,
so it cannot be turned off. Otherwise it could.


I am thinking of placing most, if not all, my data on an external hard
drive which can then be manually switched on and off - on only when
used. Gotta be careful tho - cud lose data.

Thanks
JW

On 12/26/2017 07:32 AM, wrote:
Finally turn off the wireless lan and disable the hard wired connection
when you are not using the internet

I always try to pull the cat5. But my router is co-used by house TVs,
so it cannot be turned off. Otherwise it could.

Keith was saying turn of the wi-fi on you PC (if it's even of ) and pull
the cat5 cable. Thus removing the PC from the router, not turn off the
router.

Big Al wrote:
On 12/26/2017 07:32 AM, wrote:
Finally turn off the wireless lan and disable the hard wired connection
when you are not using the internet

I always try to pull the cat5. But my router is co-used by house TVs,
so it cannot be turned off. Otherwise it could.

Keith was saying turn of the wi-fi on you PC (if it's even of ) and pull
the cat5 cable. Thus removing the PC from the router, not turn off the
router.



Laptops at least, have a "Radio" setting for the Wifi,
and when you turn that off, there should be no connection
to the router.

Paul

wrote

| The best security is to delete all programs that you do not need from
| your computer, and only install those programs that you need.
|
| This wud take me some effort and time.
|

That doesn't sound good.
It sounds like you're overdue to figure out what's
on your system.

Another point is to always configure software
not to allow auto-updating. Paul's advice to have
a good outgoing firewall stops malware calling home,
but if you allow all programs to call home anyway,
that doesn't offer much help.
Many people have gradually developed the idea
that good software should always auto-update.
That's never been true. Which is why corporations
are allowed to put off updating Win10. You and all
other SOHo customers are the unpaid beta-testing
team. The same goes for other software. Bad bugs
in updates are not at all unusual. If it works fine now
it probably is fine.

|
|
| Finally turn off the wireless lan and disable the hard wired connection
| when you are not using the internet
|
| I always try to pull the cat5. But my router is co-used by house TVs,
| so it cannot be turned off. Otherwise it could.
|

I use a UPS with a network cable run-through. It
provides a dual service: surge protection and, by
having it on the desk, I can easily just pull the cord
when I'm not online.

| I am thinking of placing most, if not all, my data on an external hard
| drive which can then be manually switched on and off - on only when
| used. Gotta be careful tho - cud lose data.

That won't help much if it's turned on when you
use the computer. External disks have been sold
to the public as a big advantage but most people
who use them are just wasting money on extra
storage they don't need.

Some other points to consider:

* Shopping online is risky.

* Banking online is risky.

* Allowing javascript
in the browser is the main venue of problems, along
with tricks like getting you to click a bad link in email.
Using a HOSTS file and NoScript can go a long way
to reduce your risks and also reduce tracking.

* Webmail that doesn't allow disabling script and
3rd-party content is both a security and privacy risk.
Try to use a real email program if possible. Those have
blocked script and web bugs for years. If you use
something like gmail you can't stop Google spying, but
you can at least get your email via something like
Thunderbird and benefit from the security features it
has. (There are successful companies, like Constant
Contact, whose whole business model is based on
spying via email, tracking when and how much you
read someone's email. Yet that tracking only works
with webmail.)

* Do you use a cellphone? If you use apps you probably
have to enable geo-location and other methods that
apps use to track you for targetted ads. Phone apps
are the new malware. Even Apple have a hard time
keeping the sneaky ones out.

* You mentioned Internet-connected TVs. Those are
an extreme intrusion, and it's not new:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...-their-owners/

https://securityledger.com/2014/05/b...g-no-smart-tv/

https://securityledger.com/2015/11/v...-your-screens/

https://threatpost.com/red-button-at...rt-tvs/106547/

You said that you're concerned about collection of data,
but what data? Security? Privacy? Are you concerned with
a keylogger getting you credit card info? An attack that
gets to your bank account? Photos of your kids being
spread around? The risks depend on what you use your
computer for and what you want to protect. It's not just
an amorphous bad element that's waiting to sneak into
your computer and cause harm.

How about"smart" appliances? That's an impending calamity
that's entirely unnecessary. There have already been cases
of hacked doors locks and the like. And for what? What kind of
nut thinks they need to open their front door from their phone?

Privacy is being attacked from all angles. With that come
privacy risks. With those come security risks. I was reading
an article in the NYT just this morning about stores rejecting
cash payment. The article made it sound like only "luddites"
use cash. (They even used that word, which has been given
a meaning based on misperception. The Luddites were against
losing their jobs, not against new technology.) The NYT
reporter was similarly sloppy and gossippy throught the article.
It was a "light reading" piece. But it was also shocking:

The Dig Inn, a lunch spot in Manhattan, refuses to accept
cash. They claim various vague reasons. Other nearby shops
are doing the same. It's the new normal. Blah, blah, blah.
But then the whole thing turns out to be not just a case
of fuzzy-headed technophilia -- Visa is paying a kickback
of $10K to companies that refuse to take cash. The Dig
Inn also provides payment by their phone app. That means
they'll probably get access to personal info about you. The
people at the Dig Inn might not even understand that. But
anyone from advertisers to Facebook and Google to the
people who wrote their app might be paying them a small
kickback in exchange for that data. So paying for a sandwich
at the Dig Inn could mean 30 companies know that you went
to 123 6th Ave next and stayed there for 73 minutes. It
gets very complicated very quickly. The end of cash means
the total ubiquity of tracking. But it's not only a privacy problem.
Using the Dig Inn app means there's data on your phone for
malware apps to tap into. It means you're trusting the
backend that Dig Inn is using -- that they won't somehow
expose your data to hackers. Whether that's Dig Inn themselves,
Square, Visa, or whoever. Someone is processing and storing
you credit/debit data. And debit card protection is not as
good as credit card protection. Not to mention that cashless
increases costs for everyone. Credit cards get a few % fee.
Debit cards used to get 65 cents per transaction. I don't
know offhand what the fee is now. By using credit/debit for
things like groceries, coffee and lunch you're literally paying
a superfluous middleman to give your $5 to the clerk, while
you put your money and privacy at risk.

It gets complicated, but if you're concerned about security
and/or privacy there just isn't any simple fix. You have to start
thinking in those terms. If you install a firewall while allowing
Samsung to hack your TV and using various cellphone apps,
with your phone always on, then in a very real sense you're
keeping the horses safely in the barn while the cows, goats and
chickens are all wandering off down the street.

wrote:

Ever wonder if somehow, the content of your hard drive could be
being 'tapped' to the outside world (cloud) via the router in the
background? Maybe in brief, small, snatches so you wouldn't notice
it? Maybe during a Macrium backup?

How wud one know?

JW

Most people would not know or care if their hdd's are being tapped
or if they are being monitored.
As others have said, install a good firewall and YOU, not auto,
allow selected programs to communicate with their homeworlds.
If you are interested in what is accessing your system via
networking, install a tcp monitor such as Wireshark.
Nearly everything attempts to phone home. Even MS notepad.

That won't help much if it's turned on when you
use the computer. External disks have been sold
to the public as a big advantage but most people
who use them are just wasting money on extra
storage they don't need.

I think using an external drive for data storage is a great idea!

I've been using a powered (2 usb plugs) external drive for some years now with
great success. This is a custom built unit using a 500gb SATA 7200rpm 2.5" hard
drive in an enclosure)

My newest laptop doesn't have a hard drive, only SSD and so this works perfect.
(I will never buy one with a built-in hard drive again!) The other computers on
my home network can access the external drive via login credentials.

I recently replaced that external drive with a WD 2tb USB3 compatible (1 plug)
unit. A bit slower (hardly noticeable) than the old one, but large enough to
put all my files from the other computers on it. The other computers are now
configured same as this SSD unit; -only installed software on the local drive.
Now I just backup my profile data to the external drive so I can easily migrate
to a new machine.

--
Garry

Free usenet access at http://www.eternal-september.org
Classic VB Users Regroup!
comp.lang.basic.visual.misc
microsoft.public.vb.general.discussion

"GS" wrote

| I think using an external drive for data storage is a great idea!
|
| I've been using a powered (2 usb plugs) external drive for some years now
with
| great success. This is a custom built unit using a 500gb SATA 7200rpm 2.5"
hard
| drive in an enclosure)
|
| My newest laptop doesn't have a hard drive, only SSD and so this works
perfect.
| (I will never buy one with a built-in hard drive again!) The other
computers on
| my home network can access the external drive via login credentials.
|

I don't see why it's better than internal. Because
it's mobile? I can see it if you need to transport your
data to work. Otherwise, why pay more for an external
case and slower connection? You probably get no
protection from surges if it's always connected.
And why does an SSD make a difference? It might not
technically be a hard disk, but it's functionally a hard
drive.

I've known many people who've heard that it's great
to buy an external disk for storage. It's such a fad that
the nearby Staples sells far more models of that than they
do internal disks. But most people don't need the space.
Most don't even know how much space they're using.
And externals are pricey.

A typical example: I built a computer for a friend that
I think had a 500 GB disk. After some time he talked
to a professional tech support person who told him he
should have an external disk to get more space. So he
bought one and started putting all his data there. It
wasn't even being used as backup but rather as the only
data storage! So he has no backup. Meanwhile, he's
used maybe 70 GB of the 500 GB internal disk. The
external disk is never unplugged. He never needs to
travel with data. He just wasted $80+- for no reason.

| The other computers are now
configured same as this SSD unit; -only installed software on the local
drive.
Now I just backup my profile data to the external drive so I can easily
migrate
to a new machine.
|

So what do you do with all that extra space? If you
have 500 GB or 1 TB disk with only the OS then you're
wasting gobs of space. You don't even use it to store
redundant copies of data?!

I always build computers with 2 disks. These days it's
one SSD and one regular. The first disk has the OS and
data partitions. The second disk is redundant. I copy
most things there, in case a disk suddenly dies. I also
put mostly just the OS and software on C drive, but C
drive is just the first of 5 partitions, not a whole disk.
(5-10 GB for XP. 60-100 GB for Win7.)
I then keep disk images for all computers, so that C
drive can be restored easily. And I back up data to DVDs,
USB and old hard disks. So I have multiple backups. Your
system seems to be missing easy opportunities for extra
backup. Maybe you write DVDs? But I don't understand
why you don't treat the external as backup rather than
a solitary, primary data store.

"GS" wrote

I think using an external drive for data storage is a great idea!

I've been using a powered (2 usb plugs) external drive for some years now
with great success. This is a custom built unit using a 500gb SATA 7200rpm
2.5" hard drive in an enclosure)

My newest laptop doesn't have a hard drive, only SSD and so this works
perfect. (I will never buy one with a built-in hard drive again!) The other
computers on my home network can access the external drive via login
credentials.


I don't see why it's better than internal. Because
it's mobile? I can see it if you need to transport your
data to work. Otherwise, why pay more for an external
case and slower connection?

Since I have Lou Gehrig's I'm pretty much confined to a wheelchair and so my
units MUST be portable. The external drive fits in a shirt pocket but I have it
velcro'd to my lid and use a 90 degree usb adaptor so the wire runs tightly
along the side of the chassis.

You probably get no
protection from surges if it's always connected.

I have UPSs to handle power surges/outages.

And why does an SSD make a difference? It might not
technically be a hard disk, but it's functionally a hard
drive.

SSD drives are blazingly faster than an optical drive for both bootup and app
loading. The powered usb drive I built ran as fast as the built-in hard drive
(external 7200rpm vs local 5400rpm). The new WD usb3 unit (not 'powered') runs
almost as fast as did the old (powered) one.

I've known many people who've heard that it's great
to buy an external disk for storage. It's such a fad that
the nearby Staples sells far more models of that than they
do internal disks. But most people don't need the space.
Most don't even know how much space they're using.
And externals are pricey.

A typical example: I built a computer for a friend that
I think had a 500 GB disk. After some time he talked
to a professional tech support person who told him he
should have an external disk to get more space. So he
bought one and started putting all his data there. It
wasn't even being used as backup but rather as the only
data storage! So he has no backup. Meanwhile, he's
used maybe 70 GB of the 500 GB internal disk. The
external disk is never unplugged. He never needs to
travel with data. He just wasted $80+- for no reason.

Well, if he uses/accesses that data with more than 1 computer than it's not
wasted. I can do this with any of my computers both directly wired or over my
network.

Backups are stored on external media and so using data needs to be transfered
there to back it up. I don't need to do this because the data is already there
and so is effectively backed up ongoingly. System files are all I need to back
up as far as regular maintenance gooes, as well as apps that write data to the
AppData folder under my user profile (ie: Firefox, Thunderbird, Avast, and
SolidWorks).


The other computers are now
configured same as this SSD unit; -only installed software on the local
drive.
Now I just backup my profile data to the external drive so I can easily
migrate
to a new machine.


So what do you do with all that extra space? If you
have 500 GB or 1 TB disk with only the OS then you're
wasting gobs of space. You don't even use it to store
redundant copies of data?!

The new one is 2TB; I have backed up (system/profile) data from 3 other 500GB
hard drives (no where near full) to it, each in their own (computer name)
folder. "Main" folder is the primary data storage.

I always build computers with 2 disks. These days it's
one SSD and one regular. The first disk has the OS and
data partitions. The second disk is redundant. I copy
most things there, in case a disk suddenly dies. I also
put mostly just the OS and software on C drive, but C
drive is just the first of 5 partitions, not a whole disk.
(5-10 GB for XP. 60-100 GB for Win7.)
I then keep disk images for all computers, so that C
drive can be restored easily. And I back up data to DVDs,
USB and old hard disks. So I have multiple backups. Your
system seems to be missing easy opportunities for extra
backup. Maybe you write DVDs? But I don't understand
why you don't treat the external as backup rather than
a solitary, primary data store.

The external serves for both system backup{s} as well as portable data storage.
This makes my life much easier when passing along old computers when I replace
them. (I always buy state-of-the-art hardware** and so people who know me line
up for my discards)

**
My CAD software requires some serious hardware which, of course, is rather
costly. I've found that most OEMs charge Rolls Royce prices for these units,
BUT I've also found that gaming units use the same hardware but go at Corvette
prices (less than half compared to CAD workstations).

--
Garry

Free usenet access at http://www.eternal-september.org
Classic VB Users Regroup!
comp.lang.basic.visual.misc
microsoft.public.vb.general.discussion

On Tue, 26 Dec 2017 16:25:04 -0600, Mark Lloyd
wrote:


On 12/26/2017 12:44 PM, Mayayana wrote:

[snip]


I don't see why it's better than internal. Because
it's mobile? I can see it if you need to transport your
data to work. Otherwise, why pay more for an external
case and slower connection? You probably get no
protection from surges if it's always connected.


A backup drive should be external, so it can be disconnected and can be
safe from anything (malware, user errors, bad software, etc...)



And that "etc." includes nearby lightning strikes and theft of the
computer.



that
could affect your computer.



A strong ditto!




If can also be used on multiple computers.

Also, have at least TWO backup drives and never connect both of them at
the same time.



Another ditto!

But note that Wayne said "I am thinking of placing most, if not all,
my data on an external hard drive which can then be manually switched
on and off - on only when used," and GS said "I think using an
external drive for data storage is a great idea! My newest laptop
doesn't have a hard drive, only SSD and so this works perfect."

GS thinks it's a great idea; I think it's a *terrible* idea. Those
quotes suggest that neither if them have any external backups, just
the single external drive they use for data, and they think that its
being external provides them with adequate protection. It doesn't;
they are both playing with fire.

On Tue, 26 Dec 2017 16:52:56 -0700, Ken Blake
wrote:


On Tue, 26 Dec 2017 16:25:04 -0600, Mark Lloyd
wrote:


On 12/26/2017 12:44 PM, Mayayana wrote:

[snip]


I don't see why it's better than internal. Because
it's mobile? I can see it if you need to transport your
data to work. Otherwise, why pay more for an external
case and slower connection? You probably get no
protection from surges if it's always connected.



A backup drive should be external, so it can be disconnected and can be
safe from anything (malware, user errors, bad software, etc...)



And that "etc." includes nearby lightning strikes and theft of the
computer.



that
could affect your computer.



A strong ditto!




If can also be used on multiple computers.

Also, have at least TWO backup drives and never connect both of them at
the same time.



Another ditto!

But note that Wayne said "I am thinking of placing most, if not all,
my data on an external hard drive which can then be manually switched
on and off - on only when used," and GS said "I think using an
external drive for data storage is a great idea! My newest laptop
doesn't have a hard drive, only SSD and so this works perfect."

GS thinks it's a great idea; I think it's a *terrible* idea. Those
quotes suggest that neither if them have any external backups, just
the single external drive they use for data, and they think that its
being external provides them with adequate protection. It doesn't;
they are both playing with fire.



And let me add another point to that: as far as I'm concerned, a
laptop may be great for traveling, but it's a very poor choice to be
used as a main home computer. It's more expensive than a desktop, more
expensive and harder to upgrade, more susceptible to being dropped and
destroyed, more susceptible to being stolen, etc.

And if it is used for traveling, having to take an external drive
along with it is a major pain.

"Mark Lloyd" wrote

| A backup drive should be external, so it can be disconnected and can be
| safe from anything (malware, user errors, bad software, etc...) that
| could affect your computer.
|

Yes, but a backup drive is not what we're
talking about. That's why I questioned it
being external. On the other hand, like so
many things, a lot of it comes down to personal
preferences.

On Tue, 26 Dec 2017 16:52:56 -0700, Ken Blake
wrote:

On Tue, 26 Dec 2017 16:25:04 -0600, Mark Lloyd
wrote:

On 12/26/2017 12:44 PM, Mayayana wrote:

[snip]

I don't see why it's better than internal. Because
it's mobile? I can see it if you need to transport your
data to work. Otherwise, why pay more for an external
case and slower connection? You probably get no
protection from surges if it's always connected.
A backup drive should be external, so it can be disconnected and can be
safe from anything (malware, user errors, bad software, etc...)


And that "etc." includes nearby lightning strikes and theft of the
computer.


that
could affect your computer.


A strong ditto!



If can also be used on multiple computers.

Also, have at least TWO backup drives and never connect both of them at
the same time.


Another ditto!

But note that Wayne said "I am thinking of placing most, if not all,
my data on an external hard drive which can then be manually switched
on and off - on only when used," and GS said "I think using an
external drive for data storage is a great idea! My newest laptop
doesn't have a hard drive, only SSD and so this works perfect."

GS thinks it's a great idea; I think it's a *terrible* idea. Those
quotes suggest that neither if them have any external backups, just
the single external drive they use for data, and they think that its
being external provides them with adequate protection. It doesn't;
they are both playing with fire.


And let me add another point to that: as far as I'm concerned, a
laptop may be great for traveling, but it's a very poor choice to be
used as a main home computer. It's more expensive than a desktop, more
expensive and harder to upgrade, more susceptible to being dropped and
destroyed, more susceptible to being stolen, etc.

And if it is used for traveling, having to take an external drive
along with it is a major pain.

Generally, I agree! Exception...

Given my situation (stuck in a power wheelchair) my pocket size external drive
is velcro'd to the laptop's lid and so no pain at all taking it along. The
laptop velcros to a computer tray attached to the chair; all is very well
secured.

I put my desktop in the closet after I was forced into the wheelchair because
it's not portableg.

--
Garry

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