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#136
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Simple backup option non-techy person
On 5/3/20 9:34 AM, Frank Slootweg wrote:
Ken Springer wrote: [...] I doubt we'll get him [Chris] to look at Linux. If the laptop was for him, maybe, but it's a family friend's laptop. Like you, he already has *real* UNIX, so why would he want to look at some pretend Unix-like thingy!? :-) But, does he know how to use it... G I need someone to clone me, so I'd have time for all my computer wishes, plus day to day life activities. ROFL -- Ken MacOS 10.14.6 Firefox 70.0.1 Thunderbird 60.9 "My brain is like lightning, a quick flash and it's gone!" |
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#137
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Simple backup option non-techy person
On 5/3/20 9:42 AM, Mike Easter wrote:
Ken Springer wrote: I've got Linux Mint 19.x with xfce desktop on an old computer, but Mint has outgrown the abilities of the hardware. Modern XFCE is more demanding of resources than the past because of gtk3 and other factors. Give MX Linux a shot. Altho' it is also XFCE, it is lighter. But if the hardware is older than MX Linux needs, then try its lighter sibling AntiX. The lightweight distro/s can do just fine w/ combinations of parts of LXDE and some window manager as opposed to a conventional desktop. Surprisingly, modern XFCE is now heavier than KDE. Gnome is the worst in that regard, and Cinnamon which I like needs some resources. Something like XFCE but slightly lighter is Mate. I have an old 32bit 1G laptop that previously did fine w/ Mint 17 XFCE, but now is antix or mx which both come in 32bit arch. I would like to find something that is really easy for newbies to learn, which is why I like the Cinnamon desktop. Especially the seniors. But, I never have any takers. :-( I think people just listen to their friends who say you have to have this program or that program. That used to be true, which is how I feel, but no longer. Especially with most people migrating to the cloud, whether they know it or not. -- Ken MacOS 10.14.6 Firefox 70.0.1 Thunderbird 60.9 "My brain is like lightning, a quick flash and it's gone!" |
#138
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Simple backup option non-techy person
Ken Springer wrote:
I would like to find something that is really easy for newbies to learn, which is why I like the Cinnamon desktop.Â* Especially the seniors. Mint's Cinnamon is my fave; but I'm booting different live linuxes all the time. Usually I'm interested in how modest their resource usage is to the live desktop, how they look in their default mode, how well they handle their documentation and ease of configuration. Some people LUV the myriad ways they can configure in terms of themes and all that jazz, but that experimentation part has never appealed to me like others. I don't think it is useful for someone who is completely unfamiliar w/ computers or Windows to try to find their favorite linux, but it is probably useful for those who've used Win before to have some similarity to such as Win7 and a bottom panel and conventional menu, and windows that work like Win as opposed to Mac. But, I never have any takers.Â* :-(Â* I think people just listen to their friends who say you have to have this program or that program.Â* That used to be true, which is how I feel, but no longer.Â* Especially with most people migrating to the cloud, whether they know it or not. Sometimes some program has an appeal in spite of all that is logical. When I was predominately on Win, Outlook Express for mail and news was my favorite news agent, in spite of the fact that I needed all kinds of 3rd party crutches for it, SpamPal, NFilter/NewsProxy, Yproxy, OEQuoteFix, and maybe more. And, in those days I was handling and dissecting spam regularly for spamcop discussions. OE's integration w/ IE and Win vulnerabilities made default use of OE w/ spam in its inbox hazardous for one's cyberhealth :-) And even now, I have an old XP over there which came w/ an ancient MS Works, which I actually use more often for light tasks which involve printing than I do a decent current LibreOffice suite. I haven't had a modern MS Office for decades, maybe since the one I bought w/ W95. -- Mike Easter |
#139
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Simple backup option non-techy person
In article , Ken Springer
wrote: Supporting someone - especially remotely - with an OS which is not your main OS is IMNSHO [1] A Very Bad Idea (TM). To some extent, doesn't this depend on what type of support you are providing? I try to teach the basic computer skills, the things I think Mike Easter was referring to. Those core things that apply to all computers. Proper file management, what a word processor is and does, not how to use MS Word. Etc., etc., etc. that differs widely depending on the platform, much of which is not needed. |
#140
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Simple backup option non-techy person
Mike Easter wrote:
KeePod was doing their thing with NGO such as in the monster slums of Kenya - Methare, but then keepod went astray with their androidy tech conversion. If one wants to read all the raves about keepod that were going on in 2014, then a simple search on keepod will get that done. But, about the time I considered keepod to have gone astray, other anti-keepod articles such as this one cropped up: https://www.ictworks.org/keepod-wast...ux-on-a-stick/ Keepod: Wasting $40,000 to Reinvent Linux on a Stick And that was when keepod was 'still' a fairly conventional linux, before it went android. The comments section is also useful and contains a msg by a keepod dev early in the process of their going android (or thinking they were going to). However, his 'inspiration' re android doesn't begin to address the hurdles that folks have encountered who put together androidy systems for x86 architecture for more years. I've seen android-x86 and their struggles. Going the other way works much better; putting linux on ARM devices, which arm just keeps getting better. "This is a project to port Android open source project to x86 platform, " Or maybe the keepod people and their ngo friends decided to recycle old arm phones into Nairobi's Mathare slums instead of USB sticks. -- Mike Easter |
#141
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Simple backup option non-techy person
Ken Springer wrote:
On 5/3/20 9:25 AM, Frank Slootweg wrote: Oops! Case of foot-in-mouth! I didn't realize that Chris is using MacOS, so probably/possibly Windows, Linux and ChromeOS are all more or less 'alien' to him. I don't remember Chris saying what he uses. "It's all in the headers!" :-) (User-Agent But, I obviously use MacOS. VBG That's OK, some of my best friends are Mac users! :-) |
#142
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Simple backup option non-techy person
On 5/3/20 1:14 PM, Frank Slootweg wrote:
Ken Springer wrote: On 5/3/20 9:25 AM, Frank Slootweg wrote: Oops! Case of foot-in-mouth! I didn't realize that Chris is using MacOS, so probably/possibly Windows, Linux and ChromeOS are all more or less 'alien' to him. I don't remember Chris saying what he uses. "It's all in the headers!" :-) (User-Agent I never look at the headers unless I'm trying to solve a problem But, the headers won't solve my current problem. Finding someone to do my work for me! Rather like Tom Sawyer finding someone to whitewash the fencs! LOL But, I obviously use MacOS. VBG That's OK, some of my best friends are Mac users! :-) They must A) think you're really special, or B) you're paying them pretty good!!! ROFL -- Ken MacOS 10.14.6 Firefox 70.0.1 Thunderbird 60.9 "My brain is like lightning, a quick flash and it's gone!" |
#143
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Simple backup option non-techy person
On 5/3/20 11:26 AM, Mike Easter wrote:
Ken Springer wrote: I would like to find something that is really easy for newbies to learn, which is why I like the Cinnamon desktop.Â* Especially the seniors. Mint's Cinnamon is my fave; but I'm booting different live linuxes all the time. Usually I'm interested in how modest their resource usage is to the live desktop, how they look in their default mode, how well they handle their documentation and ease of configuration. These days, #1 on my list... Can I read the screen. Mint's default color scheme has become a problem. As well as screen resolution. I'm using a 1920X1200, but I run at 1600X1000. After this, the documentation and configuration are next on my list. Some people LUV the myriad ways they can configure in terms of themes and all that jazz, but that experimentation part has never appealed to me like others. Now wishing anything negative, but I'll bet if your eyes start getting bad, you're priorities will shift. G I don't think it is useful for someone who is completely unfamiliar w/ computers or Windows to try to find their favorite linux, but it is probably useful for those who've used Win before to have some similarity to such as Win7 and a bottom panel and conventional menu, and windows that work like Win as opposed to Mac. Xfce reminds me of XP. Haven't experimented with a distro that looks like a Mac. For those completely unfamiliar, it would be pointless to find a favorite. You need some experience for that. I'm thinking more along the lines where someone has an old computer that just doesn't quite cut it anymore. And if they are trying the cloud, maybe installing Linux would save them a dollar or two. But, I never have any takers.Â* :-(Â* I think people just listen to their friends who say you have to have this program or that program.Â* That used to be true, which is how I feel, but no longer.Â* Especially with most people migrating to the cloud, whether they know it or not. Sometimes some program has an appeal in spite of all that is logical. When I was predominately on Win, Outlook Express for mail and news was my favorite news agent, in spite of the fact that I needed all kinds of 3rd party crutches for it, SpamPal, NFilter/NewsProxy, Yproxy, OEQuoteFix, and maybe more. And, in those days I was handling and dissecting spam regularly for spamcop discussions. OE's integration w/ IE and Win vulnerabilities made default use of OE w/ spam in its inbox hazardous for one's cyberhealth :-) But you're not the average user. Folks I know are usually those that just take it the way it is, and never even ask themselves if there's a better way. And even now, I have an old XP over there which came w/ an ancient MS Works, which I actually use more often for light tasks which involve printing than I do a decent current LibreOffice suite. I haven't had a modern MS Office for decades, maybe since the one I bought w/ W95. -- Ken MacOS 10.14.6 Firefox 70.0.1 Thunderbird 60.9 "My brain is like lightning, a quick flash and it's gone!" |
#144
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Simple backup option non-techy person
Ken Springer wrote:
These days, #1 on my list...Â* Can I read the screen.Â* Mint's default color scheme has become a problem.Â* As well as screen resolution.Â* I'm using a 1920X1200, but I run at 1600X1000. There's more than one way to fix making things bigger. I like to keep the monitor's native resolution and make things bigger another way. If the colors are problematic, change the theme. If the fonts are too small, adjust the font size in whichever different places you want them bigger. There's a curiously named default application in Mint and some other distros that is very useful. Qt (now 5) is a toolkit that is used for KDE or LXQt, but not the GTK (now 3) based desktops such as gnome, cinnamon, mate, xfce, etc. However, in those gtk/s there is an app named Qt5 settings, which is actually 'made for' gtk desktop tweaking, not Qt (place an interrobang here). If you are tweaking a mint such as cinnamon or xfce or mate, take a look at it. I might be able to tell you more of my own eyeball stories than you have or even would want to hear :-) For many many decades I bought my eyeglasses off the shelf and never visited an eye or lens person. Once I decided to go that professional lens fitting route not so very long ago, I moved up the chain from one eye surgery to another. I have another appt for f/u this month. -- Mike Easter |
#145
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Simple backup option non-techy person
On 5/3/20 7:29 PM, Mike Easter wrote:
Ken Springer wrote: These days, #1 on my list...Â* Can I read the screen.Â* Mint's default color scheme has become a problem.Â* As well as screen resolution.Â* I'm using a 1920X1200, but I run at 1600X1000. There's more than one way to fix making things bigger. I like to keep the monitor's native resolution and make things bigger another way. I know them all! LOL The problem with them is they are lacking in some way or another. Since this is the W10 newsgroup... CTRL with the + or - key... Doesn't work universally. Usually only on the data in a window, but not the window itself. Not at all for the desktop. Each windows has to be done separately. And, often it doesn't "stick" with a program window when it is closed and then reopened. The magnifier... 2 useful modes, one that's like a magnifying glass called Lens (adjustable in W10), and full screen. There's a 3rd one called Docked, but I've not played with it much. As a magnifying glass, works great to read specific areas, such as the fine print at the bottom of the contract. But do you really want to use it to write the Great American Novel? Full screen...I first saw this in the Windows 3.x era. Thought it was pretty neat, your desktop slides around until the part you want is visible. But it didn't take long for me to decide I didn't want to look at my desktop, the paper I was writing, whatever, through a porthole. I ditched that back then, and I didn't need the magnification then. Back then, the feature came with the graphics card in the computer, not part of the OS. And the card maker called it Virtual Desktop. I saw this effect somewhere else too, probably some program on the Atari. Make text on the screen larger... Usually the choices are 100%, 125%, and up. Not t hat much difference than the magnifier, except... Sometimes a program will put up a dialogue box in the middle of the screen, with one or more buttons at the bottom of the box that you have to click on. And those buttons are off the bottom of the screen, and you can't scroll down to click on them. I see this on small laptop screens. Only the magnifier with it's downsides affect the ribbons in programs. I've not come across any utility that affects those @$%^@$@#& ribbons. But... If you are willing to buy a larger monitor, then move down a screen resolution or two, maintaining the correct aspect ration, you have none of the above issues. I've done this for people, and they are such happy campers, enjoying being able to read the screen without some kind of farting around. The only negative I've found is if you use rulers. You won't measure 1" between those marks. But this is also not universal, once in a while it does work. I don't know if it's the software program, graphics drivers, or a combo that makes it work. If the colors are problematic, change the theme. Colors.... What a nightmare this is. Let's start with the fact that not all LCD/LED moinitors can display all the colors. I've seen monitors that cannot display certain shades of yellow, blue, or grey. If you want to see those colors, dang well better have a good IPS panel. Been there, done that. Both of my main monitors are IPS panels. I had a website where the main area of interest was a gorgeous tan/sand/light shade of brown, if you get the idea. Designed on my 2009 iMac. My Dell U2412M monitor did and excellent job of displaying that color. But I've seen other screens where that area is white, or some shade between white and what it's supposed to be. Themes... Eye candy for interior designers, using various shades of the same color. Be it shades of blue, brown, whatever. But sometimes the shades are so close together, I can't tell the difference. High contrast themes often go to far, hard on the eyes. That's not good either. If the fonts are too small, adjust the font size in whichever different places you want them bigger. You can't do this to the text in ribbons. :-( IIRC, you can't do this to the menus, either. Rt. click on the desktop, choose personalize. That used to bring up the color adjustments found in the Control Panel. For the icons on the desktop, you could change the font, font size, color, bold, italics, etc. Not any more. It's gone. Yet, you could do all of this and more in Windows 3.x to make things easier to see. Now, we have computers that can do more, but they remove some really useful features while telling you about their accessibility features. You could change the font, color, size, etc. in the system windows, easily. Now, you need something like WinAero Tweaker, or know how to access the settings to do this. I look for things the normal user can do to help them use their computer. And those things get to be fewer and fewer. I do like the Night Light setting, though. The same feature is called Night Shift on the Mac. Don't know if it's in any of the Linux distros. There's a curiously named default application in Mint and some other distros that is very useful. Qt (now 5) is a toolkit that is used for KDE or LXQt, but not the GTK (now 3) based desktops such as gnome, cinnamon, mate, xfce, etc. However, in those gtk/s there is an app named Qt5 settings, which is actually 'made for' gtk desktop tweaking, not Qt (place an interrobang here). If you are tweaking a mint such as cinnamon or xfce or mate, take a look at it. Is it easily accessible and understandable for the normal computer user? I might be able to tell you more of my own eyeball stories than you have or even would want to hear :-) Cataract surgery in both eyes. Wet macular degeneration in the right eye. Stopped it with the first treatment in 2013. Dry macular degeneration in both eyes, but stable for a long time. Really makes typing a pain. Astigmatism too. Fortunately, better off than one reader of this newsgroup. For many many decades I bought my eyeglasses off the shelf and never visited an eye or lens person. Once I decided to go that professional lens fitting route not so very long ago, I moved up the chain from one eye surgery to another. I have another appt for f/u this month. I get an eye exam every 4 months. I religiously take my Areds 2 vitamins every day for the macular degeneration. I've worn glasses since the 7th grade. -- Ken MacOS 10.14.6 Firefox 70.0.1 Thunderbird 60.9 "My brain is like lightning, a quick flash and it's gone!" |
#146
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Simple backup option non-techy person
On 03/05/2020 15:48, Mike Easter wrote:
Ken Springer wrote: Order the laptop online, drop ship it to you. Install TV, make the data usage settings, mail it to her. But we have to get Chris up to speed on using and supporting linux first :-)Â* But that should go pretty quickly. I've been using linux for 20 years. For work and at home. I /know/ it's not suitable for her. Or me for that matter. If I gave her linux I would then become the *only* person she can turn to for help. I don't want to be in that position. |
#147
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Simple backup option non-techy person
On 03/05/2020 14:47, Mike Easter wrote:
Chris wrote: She has a 10GB monthly cap which should be plenty for most months. You are saying she has 10G data plan for her phone I gather. She *has*Â* an internet service. Not sure why you think she hasn't? Just because it's not unlimited broadband. Well; I don't equate a phone's data plan with what I would be looking for, but one could make it do 'something'. But, I don't know if you can count 10G of phone data plan as being the equivalent of 10G of non-phone/ computer internet connectivity at 4G/LTE speed.Â* That would require decent tethering capabilities of the phone, the computer, and the provider. Your lack of understanding of how smartphones work is showing. There's nothing special required other than a decent mobile signal. Why would mobile 10GB be any different from landline 10GB? But, I look at all this discussion from the perspective of someone who needs no cell data but unlimited broadband cable at the lowest tier my provider offers of 200 Mbps. Lucky you! The latest report from the UK shows 82% have 100Mbps connections and 34% are 10Mbps. For some areas mobile speeds are actually faster than the landline. https://www.ofcom.org.uk/research-an...rformance-2018 |
#148
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Simple backup option non-techy person
On 03/05/2020 15:29, Ken Springer wrote:
On 5/3/20 6:57 AM, Chris wrote: Ken Springer wrote: On 5/2/20 10:11 PM, Paul wrote: Mike Easter wrote: oops. Mike Easter wrote: I don't like to refer to yt/s or click on yt/s that other people refer, but here's one anyway.Â* It is 40 min by an inexperienced hardware reviewer, so don't even go unless you are actually interested in options other than Win10. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DqmFDCZcxM0 That is a Debian Mate instead of the current Manjaro KDE. If I was shopping today, the "size" of updates for the prospective OS would be the question I'd want answered. In this case, the recipient is on mobile data, and we can't have an OS "with a huge appetite". But with any OS, how can you know what the future will be?Â* Both W10 and Macs eventually have a huge update.Â* I just got one a couple days ago for Mojave. On win 10 you can limit data usage. Not sure how that works in practice, but we'll see. I'm hoping she'll be able to manage her usage so that she can update at times that suit her. She has a 10GB monthly cap which should be plenty for most months. Here's a couple of web sites that may help you. https://www.groovypost.com/howto/man...10-data-usage/ https://www.auslogics.com/en/article...ed-connection/ https://www.guidingtech.com/reduce-w...10-data-usage/ THanks! But none of this controls what the user does.Â* What happens if/when she discovers You Tube videos, music sources, streaming, etc.Â* All of these are probably useless at the library, as I'll bet she's limited to the amount of time she can use the library computer before being automatically logged off.Â* My libraries limit the session to 1 hour.Â* A friend's library is 15 minutes. But W10 keeps kicking out updates, and that can be a problem if they aren't installed.Â* I had a friend who gave me his W10 laptop, telling me he wanted his OS reinstalled because it was so slow.Â* And, boy, was it. He couldn't use it because it was trying to download and install more updates than I bothered to try to count.Â* My internet speed is slow (fast enough for me, though) and not even offered any more.Â* It took 22 hours for it to finish updating.Â* Then, it ran fine. I can envision this happening if you enforce data usage and she discovers all the things she couldn't do at the library. I agree. She's quite a disciplined person so I think it's OK, but we'll just have to see. And really, is there an OS that fits that description ? You couldn't run Windows 10 on Hughes Satellite (a service with a small cap). I would think that the Linuxes would have a decent appetite too. I've had some 500MB sessions on setups here with Linux (Ubuntu Fossa Beta). If the recipient had more modern amenities at hand, like a broadband service, these concerns would be a non issue. One question none of us have asked Chris is, why not have her get internet service? She *has* an internet service. Not sure why you think she hasn't? Just because it's not unlimited broadband. My apologies, Chris, my statement did not accurately reflect what I meant. I mean, get internet service with no data limits.Â* Or, get rid of the limits she has now. The reality is that's not where we're at, so is not helpful. We may get there, but baby steps... |
#149
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Simple backup option non-techy person
Chris wrote:
If I gave her linux I would then become the *only* person she can turn to for help. I never recommended linux to a couple of people (elsewhere) that it was a pain to support on Windows. Doing it w/ the phone was misery; doing it w/ TeamViewer was OK when that would work for the problem, but of course not for such as connectivity problems. One of those people now deceased did just fine while visiting and using a linux system here; the other stopped needing help when she went to chromebook. The guy who died considered going Mac, but I didn't know who was going to support him -- even tho' I figured he would need less support, I didn't know where it was going to come from, as I didn't have a Mac system to look at. -- Mike Easter |
#150
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Simple backup option non-techy person
Chris wrote:
Mike Easter wrote: Well; I don't equate a phone's data plan with what I would be looking for, but one could make it do 'something'. But, I don't know if you can count 10G of phone data plan as being the equivalent of 10G of non-phone/ computer internet connectivity at 4G/LTE speed.Â* That would require decent tethering capabilities of the phone, the computer, and the provider. Your lack of understanding of how smartphones work is showing. There's nothing special required other than a decent mobile signal. Why would mobile 10GB be any different from landline 10GB? Well, I do /have/ a smart phone w/o a plan which I use its smartness and wifi connectivity and bluetooth for a number of useful purposes. The rare circumstance I need a mobile phone and use the old clamshell w/ a plan only for voice and receiving text. And it has bluetooth. If I'm going to send/receive text from home, I use a desktop computer and fullsize keyboard and googlevoice, not a cell phone. The constraints point I was making about tethering requires a tethering capable phone, which not all are, and a mobile provider who allows tethering which not all do. The tethering capabilities of the computer would be its wifi, which not all 'computers' have, but a laptop would. -- Mike Easter |
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