Is safe online banking possible? sandbox?

Char Jackson wrote:
On Sat, 11 Apr 2015 00:50:47 -0400, Al Drake wrote:

I can't speak for Canada or any other region of the US but that's how
it's done in the N.E. I haven't seen a wait person walk away with a card
in a long time.

I would say a majority of places handle transactions using wireless
connectivity.

And I would say the percentage is a tiny fraction of 1%, but I haven't been
everywhere.

I, personally prefer my debit card.

My perception of debit cards is that they have a single advantage over
credit cards in that people who can't qualify for a credit card can, in some
cases, qualify for a debit card by virtue of the fact that a debit card is
secured by the money you have on deposit. I'm not aware of any other
significant advantages of debit cards, so IMHO credit cards win in every
other situation. Besides being much safer, credit cards let me play with
someone else's money throughout the month rather than my own.

My credit union tells me that my ATM card can be used as a debit card, but
I'll be darned if I'm going to use a debit card when I have credit cards at
my disposal. I can be foolish, but not that foolish.


When my bank sent out a card like that a couple months ago,
I didn't activate it. And I behaved that way, because the
charges associated with using it were not spelled out.
If you want my business, be prepared to spell out
exactly what I'll be charged.

Paul

On Tue, 14 Apr 2015 17:44:53 -0400, Paul wrote:

Char Jackson wrote:
On Sat, 11 Apr 2015 00:50:47 -0400, Al Drake wrote:

I can't speak for Canada or any other region of the US but that's how
it's done in the N.E. I haven't seen a wait person walk away with a card
in a long time.

I would say a majority of places handle transactions using wireless
connectivity.

And I would say the percentage is a tiny fraction of 1%, but I haven't been
everywhere.

I, personally prefer my debit card.

My perception of debit cards is that they have a single advantage over
credit cards in that people who can't qualify for a credit card can, in some
cases, qualify for a debit card by virtue of the fact that a debit card is
secured by the money you have on deposit. I'm not aware of any other
significant advantages of debit cards, so IMHO credit cards win in every
other situation. Besides being much safer, credit cards let me play with
someone else's money throughout the month rather than my own.

My credit union tells me that my ATM card can be used as a debit card, but
I'll be darned if I'm going to use a debit card when I have credit cards at
my disposal. I can be foolish, but not that foolish.


When my bank sent out a card like that a couple months ago,
I didn't activate it. And I behaved that way, because the
charges associated with using it were not spelled out.
If you want my business, be prepared to spell out
exactly what I'll be charged.

I didn't have that problem. My credit union spelled out that they would
deposit $0.10 into my account each time I used the card as a debit card. I'm
sorry, but they'd have to do a heck of a lot better than giving me a dime in
order for me to give up the safety, protections, and common sense of using a
credit card instead of a debit card.

--

Char Jackson

On 4/14/2015 4:58 PM, Char Jackson wrote:
On Sat, 11 Apr 2015 10:14:39 -0400, Al Drake wrote:

Another reason not to use credit card vs. debit. I' have heard of the
covers used at ATM but never at a gas station. The ones I use don't seem
like anything would fit as it's built into a console.

Not only do skimmers "fit", but they look like they belong. It's very rare
that skimmers are detected while they are in place. It's usually long after
the fact that detectives or bank employees figure out what happened, when
they correlate customer complaints.

I've never seen any gas station where you were asked for a zip code.
Nothing other than a PIN.

You're probably using a debit card. Those typically require a PIN to 'prove'
legitimate use. Credit cards typically require you to enter your billing Zip
Code.

I think the fee for something as simple as checking your balance at
an ATM is in the dollar range.

Not if you use an ATM that's in your bank's network. If you use 'foreign'
ATMs, then yes, there are usually fees involved. With a little planning and
some awareness of your surroundings, you can easily avoid ATM fees.


I've never seen a skimmer so I have to imagine how they appear. I have
to wonder just how many there are out there. Knowing the news media it
might have happened a few times but that wouldn't play well so they have
to repeat the story. Visualizing all the consoles used I can't think how
one would fit nicely and go unnoticed.

I only use a debit card. I have never had a need for spending money
that isn't mine and having to pay it back and become a statistic of a
different kind of money makers. From day one when I first entered the
work force, before credit cards were invented, I have lived off what I
earn the old fashioned way.

I never use ATMs either. I never carry cash. No need. When I travel to
my vacation spot that may change however. Last year my bank told me they
are doing away with travelers checks. I guess it translates into the
same end as if you lose either you have to wait. Not sure how long though.

On 4/14/2015 4:47 PM, Char Jackson wrote:
On Sat, 11 Apr 2015 00:50:47 -0400, Al Drake wrote:

I can't speak for Canada or any other region of the US but that's how
it's done in the N.E. I haven't seen a wait person walk away with a card
in a long time.

I would say a majority of places handle transactions using wireless
connectivity.

And I would say the percentage is a tiny fraction of 1%, but I haven't been
everywhere.

I, personally prefer my debit card.

My perception of debit cards is that they have a single advantage over
credit cards in that people who can't qualify for a credit card can, in some
cases, qualify for a debit card by virtue of the fact that a debit card is
secured by the money you have on deposit. I'm not aware of any other
significant advantages of debit cards, so IMHO credit cards win in every
other situation. Besides being much safer, credit cards let me play with
someone else's money throughout the month rather than my own.

My credit union tells me that my ATM card can be used as a debit card, but
I'll be darned if I'm going to use a debit card when I have credit cards at
my disposal. I can be foolish, but not that foolish.

The way I see it as I explained in another post, I keep a limited
balance in my debit account so if by some means the account was
compromised a small sum would ever be tied up. I'm sure there is no
difference one way or the other when you get right down to it. Maybe a
credit card could be more of a risk if you lost your wallet. I hear
stories about people stealing someones pocket book and going off with
enough ID to use that card in many places. Maybe that can happen with a
debit card also but if that card only had a limited amount and no
overdraft then...............

On 4/14/2015 5:25 PM, Char Jackson wrote:
On Tue, 14 Apr 2015 16:27:51 -0400, Al Drake wrote:

On 4/14/2015 11:18 AM, Char Jackson wrote:
On Sat, 11 Apr 2015 08:28:26 -0700, Ken Blake wrote:

Al Drake said "I can't speak for Canada or any other region of the US
but that's how it's done in the N.E. I haven't seen a wait person walk
away with a card in a long time." That's completely the opposite of my
experience. I've almost never seen it in the Southwest, where I live,
and I've also almost never seen it in NY, where I spend a couple of
weeks every year.

My experiences mirror yours. I just did a quick review of my travel for
2013-2014 and it looks like I was in the Boston-NYC-Philly area a total of
31 times during that period. I don't remember even a single time when they
brought an iPad-like device to my table. Maybe I'm eating at a different
class of restaurant than Al Drake does, but they either walk away with my
credit card or sometimes they have customers pay up front at the register. I
also traveled repeatedly to Chicago, Denver, and Oakland, all with the same
results.

I'm happy to hear that Canada and the UK/Europe are moving faster to adopt
table-side payment, but I hope they aren't simply exchanging one weakness
for another. In those areas, it's nice that no one disappears behind closed
doors with your credit card, but wireless devices are sometimes easily
hacked, so I hope they're taking precautions.

One thing that I like is the ability to log on to my bank using my
cell and check that transaction as it happens.

I only use credit cards, so I don't have any need to watch transactions in
real time. My CC company gets to do that, and they're very good at it.

That wait person could be
taking the money and I can be watching the second it goes down.

Again, that's only a risk with debit cards. If they steal money with a
credit card, they aren't stealing my money.

Now if
there was an app that notified me of every transaction in real time I
would be very interested in using it.

My American Express card does that, but I have it configured to only notify
me of "Card Not Present" transactions. I believe you can set it up to text
you, but I have it set to email me because real-time monitoring isn't
important to me. Even so, I get the emails within a few seconds of making
"Card Not Present" transactions. I assume the texts would be just as quick,
if not quicker.


All in all everything you have here I can't say I disagree with. My
habits won't change unless something happens to make me rethink. I
wouldn't really use that app as I don't do all that much spending and
never had an issue other than when my bank sent me a new card due to a
vender being hacked.
I was just notified that my healthcare provider was hacked and just
about every thing about me was exposed including my S.S number and my
wage earnings.

| I've never seen a skimmer so I have to imagine how they appear.

They're designed to appear authentic, fitting
over the card slot like a glove, with some kind
of chip or sensor to record data. There are also
versions for keyboards.

I don't use debit cards and only use ATMs at
my bank, so it's not hard to notice when the
ATM case seems to have a new appearance.
If you use a debit card then you have a very
promiscuous relationship with card readers....
an e-orgy of in-and-out at the drop of a hat.
It might be more difficult to notice a skimmer in
that case.

I've also read of cases where someone acting
official comes into a supermarket and "updates"
the card readers. I think in at least some of those
cases the alteration is internal.

On Wed, 15 Apr 2015 03:27:06 -0400, Al Drake wrote:

I was just notified that my healthcare provider was hacked and just
about every thing about me was exposed including my S.S number and my
wage earnings.

The good news, if there is any, is that your info is probably among a few
million others, so you have a chance at security through obscurity.

--

Char Jackson

On Wed, 15 Apr 2015 03:20:52 -0400, Al Drake wrote:

On 4/14/2015 4:47 PM, Char Jackson wrote:
On Sat, 11 Apr 2015 00:50:47 -0400, Al Drake wrote:

I can't speak for Canada or any other region of the US but that's how
it's done in the N.E. I haven't seen a wait person walk away with a card
in a long time.

I would say a majority of places handle transactions using wireless
connectivity.

And I would say the percentage is a tiny fraction of 1%, but I haven't been
everywhere.

I, personally prefer my debit card.

My perception of debit cards is that they have a single advantage over
credit cards in that people who can't qualify for a credit card can, in some
cases, qualify for a debit card by virtue of the fact that a debit card is
secured by the money you have on deposit. I'm not aware of any other
significant advantages of debit cards, so IMHO credit cards win in every
other situation. Besides being much safer, credit cards let me play with
someone else's money throughout the month rather than my own.

My credit union tells me that my ATM card can be used as a debit card, but
I'll be darned if I'm going to use a debit card when I have credit cards at
my disposal. I can be foolish, but not that foolish.

The way I see it as I explained in another post, I keep a limited
balance in my debit account so if by some means the account was
compromised a small sum would ever be tied up.

Right, but regardless of the amount, it's your money you're talking about.
With a credit card, it's not your money that's at risk. To me, that's a
significant difference.

I'm sure there is no
difference one way or the other when you get right down to it.

There are many differences between debit cards and credit cards, but the one
I mentioned above is where my head is at.

I know my situation is different from yours, but I travel for work and last
year I had over $60K in travel expenses. I book and pay up front for all of
my travel, then I get reimbursed after the travel is complete. If I were
using a debit card, I'd be paying for all of that with my own money and then
my company would reimburse me. My personal account would take a hit and then
get replenished. Obviously, I'm not going to do that because it doesn't make
sense, so I pay for everything with a credit card. Long before the credit
card bill comes due, I have the company's reimbursement on hand so when I
pay the bill, I'm paying with company money rather than with my money.

By using credit cards, my own money never enters the picture. It sits safely
off to the side, completely unaffected by any of this.


--

Char Jackson

On Wed, 15 Apr 2015 03:11:15 -0400, Al Drake wrote:

On 4/14/2015 4:58 PM, Char Jackson wrote:
On Sat, 11 Apr 2015 10:14:39 -0400, Al Drake wrote:

Another reason not to use credit card vs. debit. I' have heard of the
covers used at ATM but never at a gas station. The ones I use don't seem
like anything would fit as it's built into a console.

Not only do skimmers "fit", but they look like they belong. It's very rare
that skimmers are detected while they are in place. It's usually long after
the fact that detectives or bank employees figure out what happened, when
they correlate customer complaints.

I've never seen any gas station where you were asked for a zip code.
Nothing other than a PIN.

You're probably using a debit card. Those typically require a PIN to 'prove'
legitimate use. Credit cards typically require you to enter your billing Zip
Code.

I think the fee for something as simple as checking your balance at
an ATM is in the dollar range.

Not if you use an ATM that's in your bank's network. If you use 'foreign'
ATMs, then yes, there are usually fees involved. With a little planning and
some awareness of your surroundings, you can easily avoid ATM fees.


I've never seen a skimmer so I have to imagine how they appear.

If you go to http://images.google.com and search for credit card skimmer,
you can see lots of examples. My understanding is that they're equally
effective with debit cards.

I have
to wonder just how many there are out there. Knowing the news media it
might have happened a few times but that wouldn't play well so they have
to repeat the story.

I'd bet that there are a whole lot more that never get reported.

Visualizing all the consoles used I can't think how
one would fit nicely and go unnoticed.

Check out the images I suggested above. You'd have no idea that such a
device was present.

I only use a debit card. I have never had a need for spending money
that isn't mine and having to pay it back and become a statistic of a
different kind of money makers. From day one when I first entered the
work force, before credit cards were invented, I have lived off what I
earn the old fashioned way.

I'm sure that was very commendable 50-80 years ago, but within the past
40-50 years I'd call it unfortunate. Still, if it works for you I can't
knock it.

I never use ATMs either. I never carry cash. No need. When I travel to
my vacation spot that may change however. Last year my bank told me they
are doing away with travelers checks. I guess it translates into the
same end as if you lose either you have to wait. Not sure how long though.

Traveler's checks. :-) That's a blast from the past. From the mid-1970's
until a few weeks ago, I hadn't heard a peep about Traveler's checks and I'd
assumed they were a relic from the past, but American Express recently
announced that they were retiring the whole concept. My reaction was that I
thought they had done that 40 years ago. The other major vendor of
Traveler's checks, Travelex, apparently shut down this part of their
business about 8 years ago.

--

Char Jackson

On 4/15/2015 8:43 AM, Mayayana wrote:
| I've never seen a skimmer so I have to imagine how they appear.

They're designed to appear authentic, fitting
over the card slot like a glove, with some kind
of chip or sensor to record data. There are also
versions for keyboards.

I don't use debit cards and only use ATMs at
my bank, so it's not hard to notice when the
ATM case seems to have a new appearance.
If you use a debit card then you have a very
promiscuous relationship with card readers....
an e-orgy of in-and-out at the drop of a hat.
It might be more difficult to notice a skimmer in
that case.

I've also read of cases where someone acting
official comes into a supermarket and "updates"
the card readers. I think in at least some of those
cases the alteration is internal.


I think I'd notice. I never use ATMs. Where I do use my debit card I
can't think of any transaction that occurs without a human present,
other than myself that is.

I'd like to read some of those articles about the "updates". I suppose
anything can happen. Not using an debit card for any reason in my
opinion is pure paranoia.

I can't see any significant number of debit cards being compromised if
any. I think your a victim of hyperbolic pontification.

On 4/15/2015 11:11 AM, Char Jackson wrote:
On Wed, 15 Apr 2015 03:11:15 -0400, Al Drake wrote:

On 4/14/2015 4:58 PM, Char Jackson wrote:
On Sat, 11 Apr 2015 10:14:39 -0400, Al Drake wrote:

Another reason not to use credit card vs. debit. I' have heard of the
covers used at ATM but never at a gas station. The ones I use don't seem
like anything would fit as it's built into a console.

Not only do skimmers "fit", but they look like they belong. It's very rare
that skimmers are detected while they are in place. It's usually long after
the fact that detectives or bank employees figure out what happened, when
they correlate customer complaints.

I've never seen any gas station where you were asked for a zip code.
Nothing other than a PIN.

You're probably using a debit card. Those typically require a PIN to 'prove'
legitimate use. Credit cards typically require you to enter your billing Zip
Code.

I think the fee for something as simple as checking your balance at
an ATM is in the dollar range.

Not if you use an ATM that's in your bank's network. If you use 'foreign'
ATMs, then yes, there are usually fees involved. With a little planning and
some awareness of your surroundings, you can easily avoid ATM fees.


I've never seen a skimmer so I have to imagine how they appear.

If you go to http://images.google.com and search for credit card skimmer,
you can see lots of examples. My understanding is that they're equally
effective with debit cards.

I have
to wonder just how many there are out there. Knowing the news media it
might have happened a few times but that wouldn't play well so they have
to repeat the story.

I'd bet that there are a whole lot more that never get reported.

Why would any not get reported?

Visualizing all the consoles used I can't think how
one would fit nicely and go unnoticed.

Check out the images I suggested above. You'd have no idea that such a
device was present.

Yes, there sure are a lot of images. I don't think many people have
stopped using credit cards because of "skimmers"

I only use a debit card. I have never had a need for spending money
that isn't mine and having to pay it back and become a statistic of a
different kind of money makers. From day one when I first entered the
work force, before credit cards were invented, I have lived off what I
earn the old fashioned way.

I'm sure that was very commendable 50-80 years ago, but within the past
40-50 years I'd call it unfortunate. Still, if it works for you I can't
knock it.

What is unfortunate about it? I can't think of one time in my life
where I wished I had a credit card. You tell me, when would I need one?
Maybe I'm simply missing something.

I never use ATMs either. I never carry cash. No need. When I travel to
my vacation spot that may change however. Last year my bank told me they
are doing away with travelers checks. I guess it translates into the
same end as if you lose either you have to wait. Not sure how long though.

Traveler's checks. :-) That's a blast from the past. From the mid-1970's
until a few weeks ago, I hadn't heard a peep about Traveler's checks and I'd
assumed they were a relic from the past, but American Express recently
announced that they were retiring the whole concept. My reaction was that I
thought they had done that 40 years ago. The other major vendor of
Traveler's checks, Travelex, apparently shut down this part of their
business about 8 years ago.


Using traveler's checks had become a habit so I guess I never gave it
a second thought. Better than cash if you lose your wallet. They can be
cashed like money with no risk. If I'm taking a walk on the 7 mile beach
in Negril and I decide to stop to get something to eat I'd still rather
carry traveler's checks over a card or cash. They were always free at my
bank.

On 4/15/2015 10:31 AM, Char Jackson wrote:
On Wed, 15 Apr 2015 03:27:06 -0400, Al Drake wrote:

I was just notified that my healthcare provider was hacked and just
about every thing about me was exposed including my S.S number and my
wage earnings.

The good news, if there is any, is that your info is probably among a few
million others, so you have a chance at security through obscurity.

I was never concerned. Google has more info about me then the NSA. I
have no secrets and nothing to hide. I'm just to old to worry about
anything any more. Born in the 40's. A youngster compared to some poster
in this group.

On 4/15/2015 10:54 AM, Char Jackson wrote:
On Wed, 15 Apr 2015 03:20:52 -0400, Al Drake wrote:

On 4/14/2015 4:47 PM, Char Jackson wrote:
On Sat, 11 Apr 2015 00:50:47 -0400, Al Drake wrote:

I can't speak for Canada or any other region of the US but that's how
it's done in the N.E. I haven't seen a wait person walk away with a card
in a long time.

I would say a majority of places handle transactions using wireless
connectivity.

And I would say the percentage is a tiny fraction of 1%, but I haven't been
everywhere.

I, personally prefer my debit card.

My perception of debit cards is that they have a single advantage over
credit cards in that people who can't qualify for a credit card can, in some
cases, qualify for a debit card by virtue of the fact that a debit card is
secured by the money you have on deposit. I'm not aware of any other
significant advantages of debit cards, so IMHO credit cards win in every
other situation. Besides being much safer, credit cards let me play with
someone else's money throughout the month rather than my own.

My credit union tells me that my ATM card can be used as a debit card, but
I'll be darned if I'm going to use a debit card when I have credit cards at
my disposal. I can be foolish, but not that foolish.

The way I see it as I explained in another post, I keep a limited
balance in my debit account so if by some means the account was
compromised a small sum would ever be tied up.

Right, but regardless of the amount, it's your money you're talking about.
With a credit card, it's not your money that's at risk. To me, that's a
significant difference.

I'm sure there is no
difference one way or the other when you get right down to it.

There are many differences between debit cards and credit cards, but the one
I mentioned above is where my head is at.

I know my situation is different from yours, but I travel for work and last
year I had over $60K in travel expenses. I book and pay up front for all of
my travel, then I get reimbursed after the travel is complete. If I were
using a debit card, I'd be paying for all of that with my own money and then
my company would reimburse me. My personal account would take a hit and then
get replenished. Obviously, I'm not going to do that because it doesn't make
sense, so I pay for everything with a credit card. Long before the credit
card bill comes due, I have the company's reimbursement on hand so when I
pay the bill, I'm paying with company money rather than with my money.

By using credit cards, my own money never enters the picture. It sits safely
off to the side, completely unaffected by any of this.

While my money is just as safe using a debit card.

To begin with the money I use is mine but it has the same protection
offered by a bank's credit card. I was assured this when I stopped in to
my bank and had them disconnect my overdraft protection. I explained my
concerns and was assured I need not take extra measure with a debit
card. I still prefer to keep a limited balance. One time I did attempt a
large purchase of a washer and dryer at the spur of the moment so all I
had to do was make a call and the limit was lifted for that one purchase.

I guess your situation would be of the business nature and not a
personal matter. I do get to use my employers card when I am on official
business on a rare occasion. Of that I approve.

On Wed, 15 Apr 2015 16:47:15 -0400, Al Drake wrote:

On 4/15/2015 10:54 AM, Char Jackson wrote:
On Wed, 15 Apr 2015 03:20:52 -0400, Al Drake wrote:

On 4/14/2015 4:47 PM, Char Jackson wrote:
On Sat, 11 Apr 2015 00:50:47 -0400, Al Drake wrote:

I can't speak for Canada or any other region of the US but that's how
it's done in the N.E. I haven't seen a wait person walk away with a card
in a long time.

I would say a majority of places handle transactions using wireless
connectivity.

And I would say the percentage is a tiny fraction of 1%, but I haven't been
everywhere.

I, personally prefer my debit card.

My perception of debit cards is that they have a single advantage over
credit cards in that people who can't qualify for a credit card can, in some
cases, qualify for a debit card by virtue of the fact that a debit card is
secured by the money you have on deposit. I'm not aware of any other
significant advantages of debit cards, so IMHO credit cards win in every
other situation. Besides being much safer, credit cards let me play with
someone else's money throughout the month rather than my own.

My credit union tells me that my ATM card can be used as a debit card, but
I'll be darned if I'm going to use a debit card when I have credit cards at
my disposal. I can be foolish, but not that foolish.

The way I see it as I explained in another post, I keep a limited
balance in my debit account so if by some means the account was
compromised a small sum would ever be tied up.

Right, but regardless of the amount, it's your money you're talking about.
With a credit card, it's not your money that's at risk. To me, that's a
significant difference.

I'm sure there is no
difference one way or the other when you get right down to it.

There are many differences between debit cards and credit cards, but the one
I mentioned above is where my head is at.

I know my situation is different from yours, but I travel for work and last
year I had over $60K in travel expenses. I book and pay up front for all of
my travel, then I get reimbursed after the travel is complete. If I were
using a debit card, I'd be paying for all of that with my own money and then
my company would reimburse me. My personal account would take a hit and then
get replenished. Obviously, I'm not going to do that because it doesn't make
sense, so I pay for everything with a credit card. Long before the credit
card bill comes due, I have the company's reimbursement on hand so when I
pay the bill, I'm paying with company money rather than with my money.

By using credit cards, my own money never enters the picture. It sits safely
off to the side, completely unaffected by any of this.

While my money is just as safe using a debit card.

I beg to differ. If you still don't see the advantages of using credit cards
versus using debit cards, then I either didn't explain it very well or
something else is going on.


To begin with the money I use is mine but it has the same protection
offered by a bank's credit card.

That's simply not true. Debit cards don't have the same protections under
law as credit cards. That much is well known.


I was assured this when I stopped in to
my bank and had them disconnect my overdraft protection. I explained my
concerns and was assured I need not take extra measure with a debit
card.

Assuming you asked the right questions, they either misspoke or you
misunderstood.


I still prefer to keep a limited balance. One time I did attempt a
large purchase of a washer and dryer at the spur of the moment so all I
had to do was make a call and the limit was lifted for that one purchase.

I guess your situation would be of the business nature and not a
personal matter. I do get to use my employers card when I am on official
business on a rare occasion. Of that I approve.

The example I gave was just one example of many. There's no scenario that I
can think of where a debit card offers an advantage over a credit card. Can
you think of any?

Actually, I can think of a few but they cast a negative light on you, so I'd
rather not go there unless invited.

--

Char Jackson

On Wed, 15 Apr 2015 16:31:31 -0400, Al Drake wrote:

On 4/15/2015 11:11 AM, Char Jackson wrote:
On Wed, 15 Apr 2015 03:11:15 -0400, Al Drake wrote:

On 4/14/2015 4:58 PM, Char Jackson wrote:
On Sat, 11 Apr 2015 10:14:39 -0400, Al Drake wrote:

Another reason not to use credit card vs. debit. I' have heard of the
covers used at ATM but never at a gas station. The ones I use don't seem
like anything would fit as it's built into a console.

Not only do skimmers "fit", but they look like they belong. It's very rare
that skimmers are detected while they are in place. It's usually long after
the fact that detectives or bank employees figure out what happened, when
they correlate customer complaints.

I've never seen any gas station where you were asked for a zip code.
Nothing other than a PIN.

You're probably using a debit card. Those typically require a PIN to 'prove'
legitimate use. Credit cards typically require you to enter your billing Zip
Code.

I think the fee for something as simple as checking your balance at
an ATM is in the dollar range.

Not if you use an ATM that's in your bank's network. If you use 'foreign'
ATMs, then yes, there are usually fees involved. With a little planning and
some awareness of your surroundings, you can easily avoid ATM fees.


I've never seen a skimmer so I have to imagine how they appear.

If you go to http://images.google.com and search for credit card skimmer,
you can see lots of examples. My understanding is that they're equally
effective with debit cards.

I have
to wonder just how many there are out there. Knowing the news media it
might have happened a few times but that wouldn't play well so they have
to repeat the story.

I'd bet that there are a whole lot more that never get reported.

Why would any not get reported?

Because they go undetected and eventually the bad guys come back to remove
them. Now that you've seen some pictures, hopefully you understand that
normal everyday people would never know there's a skimmer attached.

Visualizing all the consoles used I can't think how
one would fit nicely and go unnoticed.

Check out the images I suggested above. You'd have no idea that such a
device was present.

Yes, there sure are a lot of images. I don't think many people have
stopped using credit cards because of "skimmers"

Of course not, and why should they? If there's any fraud, it's fraud against
the credit card provider, not fraud against an individual, as would be the
case for people who use debit cards.

I only use a debit card. I have never had a need for spending money
that isn't mine and having to pay it back and become a statistic of a
different kind of money makers. From day one when I first entered the
work force, before credit cards were invented, I have lived off what I
earn the old fashioned way.

I'm sure that was very commendable 50-80 years ago, but within the past
40-50 years I'd call it unfortunate. Still, if it works for you I can't
knock it.

What is unfortunate about it? I can't think of one time in my life
where I wished I had a credit card. You tell me, when would I need one?
Maybe I'm simply missing something.

If I've done my math correctly, you're in your 70's and it's way too late to
provide the basics of finance. Too late for me to be a teacher, I mean. It's
never too late for the student.


I never use ATMs either. I never carry cash. No need. When I travel to
my vacation spot that may change however. Last year my bank told me they
are doing away with travelers checks. I guess it translates into the
same end as if you lose either you have to wait. Not sure how long though.

Traveler's checks. :-) That's a blast from the past. From the mid-1970's
until a few weeks ago, I hadn't heard a peep about Traveler's checks and I'd
assumed they were a relic from the past, but American Express recently
announced that they were retiring the whole concept. My reaction was that I
thought they had done that 40 years ago. The other major vendor of
Traveler's checks, Travelex, apparently shut down this part of their
business about 8 years ago.


Using traveler's checks had become a habit so I guess I never gave it
a second thought. Better than cash if you lose your wallet. They can be
cashed like money with no risk. If I'm taking a walk on the 7 mile beach
in Negril and I decide to stop to get something to eat I'd still rather
carry traveler's checks over a card or cash. They were always free at my
bank.

No thanks, there are probably hundreds of thousands of places that take
credit cards but not Traveler's checks, no?

--

Char Jackson