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#256
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Questions about the "end of Windows 7"
"Mark Lloyd" wrote
| In 2018, I did my 2017 taxes at Credit Karma ( creditkarma.com ). | It's free, unlike desktop software. And though it uses the same | interview approach as Block and Turbotax, the prompts are much better | written. I'm sticking with Credit Karma this year. | | It's NOT free (no corporation would spend hundreds of thousands of | dollars for TV advertising to give something away). It may be OK, but do | consider what you're paying (money isn't the only important thing). | | If you don't pay for the product, YOU'RE the product. | I was wondering about that. They show ads? Or do they actually sell your personal info? I suppose their TOS would tell. Personally I've always done my own taxes, using the IRS manuals. I can't imagine uploading all that data to some online company who says they'll file for me. What a seductive stash of data for hackers! |
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#257
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Questions about the "end of Windows 7"
Java Jive wrote:
On 04/03/2019 18:32, Bill in Co wrote: I wonder if anyone has a computer using Windows 7 or 10 that boots up in a couple of minutes without a SSD. IOW, not 4 or 5 or 10 minutes, to the finish screen. Yes, this one - I haven't actually timed it, but, unless it's doing updates, it boots within about a minute, in fact my guess would be that if measured from the grub menu comfortably within a minute. FTR, it's a second-hand/used Dell Precision M6300, Intel Core 2 Duo (T7500) @ 2.2GHz, 4GB RAM, running W7 64-bit Ultimate on a Toshiba MQ01ABD050V, a conventional HD. It's not as fast as my other W7 laptop - a Dell Inspiron 15RSE 7520 Core i5-3210M @ 2.5GHz with 8GB RAM running Windows 7 Home Premium on a Western Digital WDC WD10JPVT-75A1YT0, again a conventional HD (which has just taken 21 seconds from switch on to logon screen for a resume after hibernation, no grub menu on that one) - but then no-one in their right mind would expect it to be. It groans sometimes loading a memory hungry program, for example Firefox (I use Pale Moon which has a much smaller memory footprint for more or less the same functionality), but generally it's fine running my everyday stuff - Explorer, Pale Moon, two copies of Thunderbird (one for mail, another for news), Digiguide UK TV guide, a console or two, a backup program which I run in the evening but otherwise just sits there, and usually Explorer within Control Panel in a separate Window from the above. These are nearly always running, other programs are run as needed. I've used some fairly resource-intensive programs such as FFMPEG and Handbrake on it, and it copes fairly well. By contrast W10 took ages to get to the login screen, at a guess at least about 3 minutes, and was unusable thereafter. I should perhaps point out that I've customised this build, so Task Manager shows about 40-50 processes running when the machine is idle with no programs loaded (and, as already pointed out, that's still double what I've been able to whittle W2k & XP down to), whereas W10 was running as supplied by the reseller, but I didn't and still don't think it would be worth even considering customising W10 to try and run it on this PC - I'm pretty sure that it would still be unacceptably slow. I did have a Precision M4300, a slightly slower older model with 4GB RAM and a conventional HD, and it struggled more with W7, so in the end I sysprep-ed my 32-bit XP build on it until I could decide what to do with it, but the decision has now been taken out of my hands - it's now one of a myriad of items of electronic or electrical equipment that has died on me in the last 18 months or so. I shan't bore you by listing every single one, even supposing I could remember them all, but they range from that laptop to my mobile phone to an electric fan to a 3-year old fridge freezer to a washing machine with god knows how many routers in between, and the latest is that my immersion heater has just died so I have no running hot water. Fortunately however, I fixed the shower a year or two back, so at least I'm clean, even if for the moment the dishes aren't !-( Well, ok, I actually timed mine, and it took 1 minute to the log-on screen, and a bit over 2 minutes, to the finish boot up screen.. This is a Dell Latitude E6500 laptop, with Windows 7 Professional 32 bit, 2.8 GHz, and 4 GB of RAM. So my memory was off. I got it on eBay, and specifically wanted, and got, the 32 bit version. I also use Pale Moon, or rather, New Moon, a build of PM that still works on XP. Like you, I find it a bit lighterweight than Firefox. |
#258
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Questions about the "end of Windows 7"
Wolf K wrote:
On 2019-03-04 13:10, Mark Lloyd wrote: On 3/3/19 12:56 PM, Stan Brown wrote: [snip] In their defense, every new version of Microsoft software, both Windows and Office, makes it significantly harder to _know_ what is going on behind the screen. I remember the whole Libraries stuff that was introduced in Windows 7, so that we could no longer know where files were being saved. More and more fake directories. I wish directory programs like "Windows Explorer" would limit themselves to what's actually on the disk. ???? Example of something that's not on the disk, please. Maybe the infamous junction points and directories that you can never reach the end of, when traversing with Windows Explorer? Virtual directories. |
#259
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Questions about the "end of Windows 7"
On 3/4/2019 10:31 AM, Java Jive wrote:
On 04/03/2019 18:10, Mark Lloyd wrote: More and more fake directories. I wish directory programs like "Windows Explorer" would limit themselves to what's actually on the disk. Exactly!Â* The guiding principle should be that the OS is the OS and a user's data belongs to the user, and the OS has no business at all getting involved in it, still less to the "job's worth" extent of forcing the user to have a pile of crap that they don't need or want.Â* I keep all my stuff on a separate partition anyway, so what earthly good are ... Â*Â*Â*Â*Application Data Â*Â*Â*Â*Contacts Â*Â*Â*Â*Cookies Â*Â*Â*Â*Downloads Â*Â*Â*Â*Libraries Â*Â*Â*Â*My Documents Â*Â*Â*Â*My Favourites, sorry My Favorites Â*Â*Â*Â*My Music Â*Â*Â*Â*My Pictures Â*Â*Â*Â*My Videos Â*Â*Â*Â*Saved Games Â*Â*Â*Â*Searches ... as far as I am concerned, it's all just more bloat. It's called STANDARDIZATION and it's the cornerstone of interoperability. You may not like it. It may have historical constraints that make it less desirable than if you started over today, but it works for joe average user. Let me hasten to add that nobody here is joe average user. They're defaults, but most of the time, your files can be directed to or moved to your favorite file organization. I don't have anything I need in ANY of the above directories. Applications that I use have stuff there, but I don't need to know about it. You and I may think we know better than M$ and seek to edit stuff in protected directories, but joe average should stay the hell out. If you want to see what happens without that standardized default file structure and the bloated registry, look no further than linux. Take two different flavors of linux and some applications. Developers have freedom. Users get to go on a scavenger hunt to see whether the text editor they know how to use is installed. And if it isn't they have to go figger out which application installer they need to use to install the application installer they know to implement the steps in the tutorial they read using the default browser that they had to learn how to use. Then, they get to go figger out whether the .conf file they need to edit got put in usr or usr/lib or user/lib or /etc or any of the other places random stuff gets put by random developers with no guidance. Never mind that they have no idea what needs to be put into that .conf file, or understand that this particular .conf file gets overwritten so they have to use a specific utility to enter their changes into that file. God help them if they screw it up. Ask any Windows guru how to edit the registry to do this or that and they'll give you an answer that's likely to work. Ask any linux guru and you'll get a ration of crap about how stupid you are. If you're lucky enough to find someone helpful, you'll get a detailed answer for what works on HIS system, but is less likely to work on yours. Ain't freedom grand. M$ took a step backwards when they left some configuration in control panel and put more/similar/conflicting configurations in the gear on the start menu. Then they obfuscated a lot of it with GUID identifiers instead of readable text. Standardized defaults good. Chaos BAD! |
#260
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Questions about the "end of Windows 7"
On Mon, 4 Mar 2019 11:32:48 -0700, "Bill in Co"
surly_curmudgeon@earthlink wrote: Ken Blake wrote: On Mon, 4 Mar 2019 15:37:33 +0000, Java Jive wrote: On 04/03/2019 15:33, Ken Blake wrote: On Mon, 4 Mar 2019 12:02:51 +0000, Java Jive wrote: On 04/03/2019 06:03, Mike wrote: Computers are so fast that speed ain't that much of an issue. Back when it was runtime difference between half a minute and five minutes, efficiency mattered a lot. Well, you'd've thought it shouldn't be by now, but it certainly still is here. Win10 as supplied on this second hand/used PC took several minutes to boot, the W7 that I replaced it with comfortably less than a minute. My personal view is that the attention many people pay to how long it takes to boot is usually unwarranted. No, not really, because it's a simple measure of how well and responsively it can run that OS. If it takes two or minutes to even get to the point that you can log in, then most probably it's going to be just as slow when logged in. Assuming that the computer's speed is otherwise satisfactory, it is not generally worth worrying about. That's the flaw in your argument, it generally isn't. On this PC W7 is usable, but perhaps a little sluggish, whereas W10 is unusable. I said "assuming that." If it's not, it's not. If its speed is generally unsatisfactory, then that's what you should complain about, not about one little piece of what it does--how long it takes to boot. Despite what I said above, I actually know it takes several minutes for my computer to boot, and the reason it takes as long as it does is that I have several large programs start automatically. To me, that's good, not bad. If they didn't start automatically, I would have to start them after I got my coffee, and that would take extra time. But when it's finished booting, it's fine. I have no complaints about its speed (and I'm running Windows 10 Professional). My wife's computer, on the other hand (also running Windows 10), has almost nothing starting automatically. Her computer boots very quickly and runs very quickly after booting. It would be interesting to know what you consider "boots very quickly" means, but if it does, I'm assuming you're using a SSD. Otherwise I'm gonna guess it's several minutes. Although my computer (the slow one to boot) boots from an SSD, my wife's doesn't. Hers boots from a hard drive. I've never timed how long it takes to boot, but your guess is wrong. It's well under one minute. I wonder if anyone has a computer using Windows 7 or 10 that boots up in a couple of minutes without a SSD. IOW, not 4 or 5 or 10 minutes, to the finish screen. |
#261
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Questions about the "end of Windows 7"
On 2019-03-04, Mark Lloyd wrote:
BTW, I still have a C64. It could last a long time, since it's seldom used. I still have mine along with the 1541 floppy drive and various other accessories. (Even the Z80 CP/M cartridge.) It still worked last time I fired it up but that was probably 5-6 years ago. -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Roger Blake (Posts from Google Groups killfiled due to excess spam.) NSA sedition and treason -- http://www.DeathToNSAthugs.com Don't talk to cops! -- http://www.DontTalkToCops.com Badges don't grant extra rights -- http://www.CopBlock.org ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- |
#262
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Questions about the "end of Windows 7"
On Mon, 4 Mar 2019 14:34:55 -0500, Wolf K
wrote: On 2019-03-04 13:10, Mark Lloyd wrote: On 3/3/19 12:56 PM, Stan Brown wrote: [snip] In their defense, every new version of Microsoft software, both Windows and Office, makes it significantly harder to _know_ what is going on behind the screen. I remember the whole Libraries stuff that was introduced in Windows 7, so that we could no longer know where files were being saved. More and more fake directories. I wish directory programs like "Windows Explorer" would limit themselves to what's actually on the disk. ???? Example of something that's not on the disk, please. Network Locations OneDrive |
#263
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Questions about the "end of Windows 7"
On 04/03/2019 19:44, Mike wrote:
It's called STANDARDIZATION and it's the cornerstone of interoperability. You may not like it. It may have historical constraints that make it less desirable than if you started over today, but it works for joe average user. It doesn't, because what happens with Joe Average is that (s)he downloads so much stuff that they fill up the system drive, and the whole thing grinds to a halt. If you are a UK resident, you can convince yourself of this very easily by installing the BBC's iPlayer downloader program. Unless it's been changed since I last used it about 4 years ago, it will ONLY allow you to download stuff to the C: drive, there is no means of configuring it to save downloads elsewhere. So you leave it downloading overnight, and in the morning find a PC that takes several minutes to respond to a single keystroke. Let me hasten to add that nobody here is joe average user. Actually, nor is anyone else. They're defaults, but most of the time, your files can be directed to or moved to your favorite file organization. Yes, but I *can't* get rid of the bloat I don't need, and *that's* the real point. MS is being a "job's worth" with my data. You and I may think we know better than M$ and seek to edit stuff in protected directories, but joe average should stay the hell out. And that includes staying off the system drive, but Windows is set up to enforce their using it! If you want to see what happens without that standardized default file structure and the bloated registry, look no further than linux. Take two different flavors of linux and some applications. Developers have freedom.Â* Users get to go on a scavenger hunt to see whether the text editor they know how to use is installed. And if it isn't they have to go figger out which application installer they need to use to install the application installer they know to implement the steps in the tutorial they read using the default browser that they had to learn how to use. Then, they get to go figger out whether the .conf file they need to edit got put in usr or usr/lib or user/lib or /etc or any of the other places random stuff gets put by random developers with no guidance. Never mind that they have no idea what needs to be put into that .conf file, or understand that this particular .conf file gets overwritten so they have to use a specific utility to enter their changes into that file. God help them if they screw it up. This is about software and is therefore moving the goal posts and irrelevant, because I was talking about keeping the OS out of user data, and the Windows OS at that. Ask any Windows guru how to edit the registry to do this or that and they'll give you an answer that's likely to work. [snip insulting crap that used to be true but IME isn't any more] If you're lucky enough to find someone helpful, you'll get a detailed answer for what works on HIS system, but is less likely to work on yours. With both cases it depends very much on what you want to know and who you ask. For example see if you can find out for me how to remove the ratings column from the playlist in the now-playing view of Windows Media Player. Ain't freedom grand. Yes, and I'd like to see more of it with Windows, for example by removing the bloatware and useless ratings column in Windows Media Player. Standardized defaults good. Not when it leads to fouling up the system drive. Chaos BAD! As per W10 Start Panel |
#264
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Questions about the "end of Windows 7"
On 04/03/2019 19:40, Bill in Co wrote:
Wolf K wrote: Example of something that's not on the disk, please. Maybe the infamous junction points and directories that you can never reach the end of, when traversing with Windows Explorer? Virtual directories. With, even more stupid, circular references. |
#265
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Questions about the "end of Windows 7"
On 04/03/2019 19:38, Bill in Co wrote:
Well, ok, I actually timed mine, and it took 1 minute to the log-on screen, and a bit over 2 minutes, to the finish boot up screen. Eh? What do you mean by "the finish boot up screen". I would expect in common with most others, I consider booting to be the time taken from switch on to the logon screen, what other meaning could it have? |
#266
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Questions about the "end of Windows 7"
Java Jive wrote:
On 04/03/2019 19:38, Bill in Co wrote: Well, ok, I actually timed mine, and it took 1 minute to the log-on screen, and a bit over 2 minutes, to the finish boot up screen. Eh? What do you mean by "the finish boot up screen". I would expect in common with most others, I consider booting to be the time taken from switch on to the logon screen, what other meaning could it have? Booting to the log-on screen, where you have to enter your password, is one thing (about one minute over here). Then it takes its sweet time to actually finishing booting up to the Windows 7 desktop (about 2 minutes over here). That's the distinction. |
#267
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Questions about the "end of Windows 7"
On 04/03/2019 21:44, Bill in Co wrote:
Java Jive wrote: On 04/03/2019 19:38, Bill in Co wrote: Well, ok, I actually timed mine, and it took 1 minute to the log-on screen, and a bit over 2 minutes, to the finish boot up screen. Eh? What do you mean by "the finish boot up screen". I would expect in common with most others, I consider booting to be the time taken from switch on to the logon screen, what other meaning could it have? Booting to the log-on screen, where you have to enter your password, is one thing (about one minute over here). Then it takes its sweet time to actually finishing booting up to the Windows 7 desktop (about 2 minutes over here). That's the distinction. Fair enough, but both my PCs take much less time than 2 mins to get from logon screen to desktop. However, again, with W10 this PC took ages to d that. |
#268
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Questions about the "end of Windows 7"
Java Jive wrote:
On 04/03/2019 21:44, Bill in Co wrote: Java Jive wrote: On 04/03/2019 19:38, Bill in Co wrote: Well, ok, I actually timed mine, and it took 1 minute to the log-on screen, and a bit over 2 minutes, to the finish boot up screen. Eh? What do you mean by "the finish boot up screen". I would expect in common with most others, I consider booting to be the time taken from switch on to the logon screen, what other meaning could it have? Booting to the log-on screen, where you have to enter your password, is one thing (about one minute over here). Then it takes its sweet time to actually finishing booting up to the Windows 7 desktop (about 2 minutes over here). That's the distinction. Fair enough, but both my PCs take much less time than 2 mins to get from logon screen to desktop. However, again, with W10 this PC took ages to d that. No, I mean it takes an additional one minute from the logon screen to the desktop screen. The total time is 2 minutes, about double that of my XP version |
#269
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Questions about the "end of Windows 7"
On 04/03/2019 22:09, Bill in Co wrote:
Then it takes its sweet time to actually finishing booting up to the Windows 7 desktop (about 2 minutes over here). No, I mean it takes an additional one minute from the logon screen to the desktop screen. The total time is 2 minutes I think you need to think about how your posts are read by someone who can't read your mind! |
#270
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Questions about the "end of Windows 7"
Java Jive wrote:
On 04/03/2019 22:09, Bill in Co wrote: Then it takes its sweet time to actually finishing booting up to the Windows 7 desktop (about 2 minutes over here). No, I mean it takes an additional one minute from the logon screen to the desktop screen. The total time is 2 minutes I think you need to think about how your posts are read by someone who can't read your mind! Perhaps. :-) But I'm not sure if 2 minutes *total time* is typical, but I'm guessing, maybe. Regardless, it's a lot slower than XP. And of course there's no smoke and mirrors, and and fake directories or junction points, and blocked accesses, either. :-) |
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