Destroying a Hard Drive

On 4/11/2014 1:03 AM, Bob H wrote:
On 10/04/2014 20:36, W. eWatson wrote:
On 4/10/2014 12:13 PM, James Silverton wrote:
On 4/10/2014 2:47 PM, Gene E. Bloch wrote:
On Thu, 10 Apr 2014 11:26:07 -0700, W. eWatson wrote:

I have several HDs that I no longer use. I would like to destroy
them so
that they can't be read. Comments?

There are any number of drive wiping programs available.

I just wiped a bunch of HDs using these three programs:

CCleaner (it's probably the only part of that program that I use)
KillDisk
Hardwipe

All are free or have free versions. Some can be mounted on a bootable
thumb drive or CD so you can wipe C: (don't!).

I used several because I like to play. They vary a bit in their ease of
use (all are awkward!), the kind of ads, the methods used, and even (a
little) in speed, although all take roughly half the age of the
Universe
to do the job.

IIRC, I didn't use Eraser or Complete Data Wipe, although I have
downloaded them. I forget why.

In modern drives a single-pass wipe is supposedly good enough, unless
you really *are* under surveillance by the NSA.

A powerful electromagnet should do it but a large hammer might do as
well if you don't care to reuse the disc.

I used my drill press on a few of them. Slow going. The metal strands
from the drill scatter a fair amount. I have about 10 HDs. I think I'll
try a propane torch next.

The metal strands as you call them are known as swarf in the engineering
world.

My initial thoughts were the use of a large hammer I have in my garage,
and smash the living daylights out of them.


Fabulous for stress relief, getting out aggressions, thinking of that
#$%^&*()boss you used to or still do have. VERY THERAPEUTIC.

On 4/10/2014 11:26 AM, W. eWatson wrote:
I have several HDs that I no longer use. I would like to destroy them so
that they can't be read. Comments?
Does the term "BFH" work here? That is usually my preference.

On 11/04/2014 09:03, Bob H wrote:


My initial thoughts were the use of a large hammer I have in my
garage, and smash the living daylights out of them.

I hope your thoughts are also directed towards wearing protective
goggles before hammering that innocent hard disk before it hits your eyes.

--
Good Guy
Website: http://mytaxsite.co.uk
Website: http://html-css.co.uk
Email: http://mytaxsite.co.uk/contact-us

W. eWatson wrote:

I have several HDs that I no longer use. I would like to destroy them so
that they can't be read. Comments?

Amateurs!
The hell with the drills and the de-magnetizers, etc.

1) take to your local recycling joint. They do whole PCs and turn them to
confetti.

2) The smoke-em-if-you-got-'em way: line them up in a row on concrete or
sand , pour thermite on top, then, light 'em. Photo the whole thing for
YouTube. Matter of fact, YT has a few vids on that very thing.

Now, purchasing thermite may put you on an FBI list or two, but you're
probably on there anyway if you encrypt your email or jaywalk, so why not
have some fun?

Pete Puma wrote:
W. eWatson wrote:

I have several HDs that I no longer use. I would like to destroy them so
that they can't be read. Comments?

Amateurs!
The hell with the drills and the de-magnetizers, etc.

1) take to your local recycling joint. They do whole PCs and turn them to
confetti.

2) The smoke-em-if-you-got-'em way: line them up in a row on concrete or
sand , pour thermite on top, then, light 'em. Photo the whole thing for
YouTube. Matter of fact, YT has a few vids on that very thing.

Now, purchasing thermite may put you on an FBI list or two, but you're
probably on there anyway if you encrypt your email or jaywalk, so why not
have some fun?

Materials for a thermite reaction are easily available.
There's no watch list for "rust".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermite

Fe2O3 + 2 Al → 2 Fe + Al2O3

Having done the reaction... I was singularly unimpressed.

Paul

On 4/11/2014 2:16 PM, Gene E. Bloch wrote:
On Fri, 11 Apr 2014 08:33:19 -0400, Wolf K wrote:

On 2014-04-10 10:48 PM, Gene E. Bloch wrote:
On Thu, 10 Apr 2014 16:03:51 -0600, Ken Springer wrote:

On 4/10/14 2:07 PM, W. eWatson wrote:
On 4/10/2014 12:35 PM, ray carter wrote:
On Thu, 10 Apr 2014 11:26:07 -0700, W. eWatson wrote:

I have several HDs that I no longer use. I would like to destroy them so
that they can't be read. Comments?

Get out the hammer - not kidding.

I just did it. Works well from what I see.

:-( Sorry to hear this, I wish you'd donated the drive.

I used to collect and refurbish older hardware that no one wanted. Then
donate to a local charity that passed the equipment on to low income
single parent families that couldn't afford to buy a computer. Had to
give it up, no replacement hard drives and I can't afford to buy them
either.

Why everyone is so paranoid about data on their hard drives is beyond
me. Guess that's the way of the modern world. :-(

Let me remind you of Bloch Lemma #1: It's crazy not to be paranoid.

It is not necessary or desired to remind me of the usually cited
illogical form of that lemma :-)

Reasomable paranoia is good for you.

;-)

OK, that one is as logical as mine, maybe more so!

Long ago, but not so far away, we had a security manager that did not
believe in the NSA/Mill data erase program. As a result, we had to
physically destruct hard disk platters. It was a shame, because then
we'd have to order new ones at about $245 each, and go through the
process of verifying them. (Dec style removable hard disks used on HP
technical systems.)

I'm told that that particular USAF command still uses a sledge hammer on
P/C style hard drives, rather than just erase them with the approved
utility. What a waste! After that, if that isn't enough, they have a
scrap grinder that shreds the remains. Seems the scrap grinder and the
surrounding area is not a "cleared" area.

A friend of ours buys surplus P/Cs, many of which once belonged to the
same DOD command. It's often the case that the hard drives are removed,
or, just the opposite, still in the P/C, with the software intact.
Go figure!

On 11/04/2014 00:59, Paul wrote:
Ken Springer wrote:
On 4/10/14 2:07 PM, W. eWatson wrote:
On 4/10/2014 12:35 PM, ray carter wrote:
On Thu, 10 Apr 2014 11:26:07 -0700, W. eWatson wrote:

I have several HDs that I no longer use. I would like to destroy
them so
that they can't be read. Comments?

Get out the hammer - not kidding.

I just did it. Works well from what I see.

:-( Sorry to hear this, I wish you'd donated the drive.

I used to collect and refurbish older hardware that no one wanted. Then
donate to a local charity that passed the equipment on to low income
single parent families that couldn't afford to buy a computer. Had to
give it up, no replacement hard drives and I can't afford to buy them
either.

Why everyone is so paranoid about data on their hard drives is beyond
me. Guess that's the way of the modern world. :-(

There's a secure erase command built into the IDE/SATA command set.
It's accessible with a bit of code here.

http://cmrr.ucsd.edu/people/Hughes/Secure-Erase.html

Never heard of that - most interesting. Although why you need to
download a *.doc file to read the Q & A I really don't understand.

Wait a moment - maybe I do. From the second paragraph in the ReadMe
introduction:
"Our sponsor, the National Security Agency, has ended their support of
our program...".

So there's probably a nice script in the *.doc you really don't want to
run! ;-)

--

Jeff

On 10/04/2014 21:11, W. eWatson wrote:
....
In modern drives a single-pass wipe is supposedly good enough, unless
you really *are* under surveillance by the NSA.

A powerful electromagnet should do it but a large hammer might do as
well if you don't care to reuse the disc.

I used my drill press on a few of them. Slow going. The metal strands
from the drill scatter a fair amount. I have about 10 HDs. I think I'll
try a propane torch next.

I read that heat can produce toxic gasses, so I decided to try my sledge
hammer. It looks ike it finished the job.

But this is more fun:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cOHCksyk8hc

Come to think of it, as you've got several, maybe you could find someone
with a skeet launcher which could be adapted to use HDs!

--

Jeff

On 4/11/2014 7:29 AM PT, Gordon typed:
Ants? As in step-ants, the kind you should step on?

No. The ones you feed. :P
--
"None preaches better than the ant, and she says nothing." --Ben Franklin
/\___/\ Ant(Dude) @ http://antfarm.ma.cx (Personal Web Site)
/ /\ /\ \ Ant's Quality Foraged Links: http://aqfl.net
| |o o| |
\ _ / If crediting, then use Ant nickname and AQFL URL/link.
( ) If e-mailing, then axe ANT from its address if needed.
Ant is currently not listening to any songs on this computer.

On Sat, 12 Apr 2014 15:21:41 +0100, Jeff Layman wrote:

On 10/04/2014 21:11, W. eWatson wrote:
....
In modern drives a single-pass wipe is supposedly good enough, unless
you really *are* under surveillance by the NSA.

A powerful electromagnet should do it but a large hammer might do as
well if you don't care to reuse the disc.

I used my drill press on a few of them. Slow going. The metal strands
from the drill scatter a fair amount. I have about 10 HDs. I think I'll
try a propane torch next.

I read that heat can produce toxic gasses, so I decided to try my sledge
hammer. It looks ike it finished the job.

But this is more fun:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cOHCksyk8hc

Come to think of it, as you've got several, maybe you could find someone
with a skeet launcher which could be adapted to use HDs!

I'm guessing that the drive was unusable after that.

BTW, I think those guys did an excellent job of making the video.

--
Gene E. Bloch (Stumbling Bloch)

On Sat, 12 Apr 2014 09:46:16 -0400, Wolf K wrote:

On 2014-04-12 3:46 AM, Paul wrote:
Pete Puma wrote:
W. eWatson wrote:

I have several HDs that I no longer use. I would like to destroy them so
that they can't be read. Comments?

Amateurs!
The hell with the drills and the de-magnetizers, etc.

1) take to your local recycling joint. They do whole PCs and turn them
to confetti.

2) The smoke-em-if-you-got-'em way: line them up in a row on concrete
or sand , pour thermite on top, then, light 'em. Photo the whole thing
for YouTube. Matter of fact, YT has a few vids on that very thing.

Now, purchasing thermite may put you on an FBI list or two, but you're
probably on there anyway if you encrypt your email or jaywalk, so why
not have some fun?

Materials for a thermite reaction are easily available.
There's no watch list for "rust".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermite

Fe2O3 + 2 Al ¡÷ 2 Fe + Al2O3

Having done the reaction... I was singularly unimpressed.

Paul

a) the stuff must be very finely ground, and thoroughly mixed;
b) it helps to add an oxidizer, such a potassium perchlorate. But stand
well back. ;-)

BTW, thermite is used to weld rail ends together when laying continuous
(unjointed) track.

And, at least in urban legend, it was considered a fun practical joke to
weld a train wheel to a track with thermite.

Disclaimer: it's not my idea of a good joke, practical or otherwise.

--
Gene E. Bloch (Stumbling Bloch)

Gene E. Bloch wrote:
On Sat, 12 Apr 2014 09:46:16 -0400, Wolf K wrote:

On 2014-04-12 3:46 AM, Paul wrote:
Pete Puma wrote:
W. eWatson wrote:

I have several HDs that I no longer use. I would like to destroy them so
that they can't be read. Comments?
Amateurs!
The hell with the drills and the de-magnetizers, etc.

1) take to your local recycling joint. They do whole PCs and turn them
to confetti.

2) The smoke-em-if-you-got-'em way: line them up in a row on concrete
or sand , pour thermite on top, then, light 'em. Photo the whole thing
for YouTube. Matter of fact, YT has a few vids on that very thing.

Now, purchasing thermite may put you on an FBI list or two, but you're
probably on there anyway if you encrypt your email or jaywalk, so why
not have some fun?
Materials for a thermite reaction are easily available.
There's no watch list for "rust".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermite

Fe2O3 + 2 Al ¡÷ 2 Fe + Al2O3

Having done the reaction... I was singularly unimpressed.

Paul
a) the stuff must be very finely ground, and thoroughly mixed;
b) it helps to add an oxidizer, such a potassium perchlorate. But stand
well back. ;-)

BTW, thermite is used to weld rail ends together when laying continuous
(unjointed) track.

And, at least in urban legend, it was considered a fun practical joke to
weld a train wheel to a track with thermite.

Disclaimer: it's not my idea of a good joke, practical or otherwise.


I purposely did not provide details of how it's done.

Commercial preparations will be loaded with all sorts of
other stuff. That other stuff could constitute more of
a safety hazard, than the above reaction.

Mine wasn't done in my basement, it was done in a chemistry
lab, using stock room chemicals of the right granularity.
I did the experiment outside the building, for safety, after
hearing the usual stories as to what would happen (burn through
one floor after another of the chemistry building, like the
China Syndrome). Well, I got the reaction to go, did the
reaction in a bucket of sand. It would have taken significantly
more than I was willing to use, to cause a problem. It all
seemed pretty lame (end result, glowing pile of slag).

That was done in a university chem building and facilities.
It was done as a part of an open house demo. (Stupid chemistry
tricks for the public to enjoy.) The best stuff, was done
in one of the organic chem labs (the usual banana oil, spearmint,
and various smelly esters). At least people easily relate
to those. I think someone did a beaker of nylon 66 as well,
with the glass stirring rod to wind up some fibers.

Paul

On 4/12/2014 6:45 PM, Paul wrote:
Gene E. Bloch wrote:
On Sat, 12 Apr 2014 09:46:16 -0400, Wolf K wrote:

On 2014-04-12 3:46 AM, Paul wrote:
Pete Puma wrote:
W. eWatson wrote:

I have several HDs that I no longer use. I would like to destroy them so
that they can't be read. Comments?
Amateurs!
The hell with the drills and the de-magnetizers, etc.

1) take to your local recycling joint. They do whole PCs and turn them
to confetti.

2) The smoke-em-if-you-got-'em way: line them up in a row on concrete
or sand , pour thermite on top, then, light 'em. Photo the whole thing
for YouTube. Matter of fact, YT has a few vids on that very thing.

Now, purchasing thermite may put you on an FBI list or two, but you're
probably on there anyway if you encrypt your email or jaywalk, so why
not have some fun?
Materials for a thermite reaction are easily available.
There's no watch list for "rust".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermite

Fe2O3 + 2 Al ¡÷ 2 Fe + Al2O3

Having done the reaction... I was singularly unimpressed.

Paul
a) the stuff must be very finely ground, and thoroughly mixed;
b) it helps to add an oxidizer, such a potassium perchlorate. But stand
well back. ;-)

BTW, thermite is used to weld rail ends together when laying continuous
(unjointed) track.

And, at least in urban legend, it was considered a fun practical joke to
weld a train wheel to a track with thermite.

Disclaimer: it's not my idea of a good joke, practical or otherwise.


I purposely did not provide details of how it's done.

Commercial preparations will be loaded with all sorts of
other stuff. That other stuff could constitute more of
a safety hazard, than the above reaction.

Mine wasn't done in my basement, it was done in a chemistry
lab, using stock room chemicals of the right granularity.
I did the experiment outside the building, for safety, after
hearing the usual stories as to what would happen (burn through
one floor after another of the chemistry building, like the
China Syndrome). Well, I got the reaction to go, did the
reaction in a bucket of sand. It would have taken significantly
more than I was willing to use, to cause a problem. It all
seemed pretty lame (end result, glowing pile of slag).

That was done in a university chem building and facilities.
It was done as a part of an open house demo. (Stupid chemistry
tricks for the public to enjoy.) The best stuff, was done
in one of the organic chem labs (the usual banana oil, spearmint,
and various smelly esters). At least people easily relate
to those. I think someone did a beaker of nylon 66 as well,
with the glass stirring rod to wind up some fibers.

Paul


You should see what a magnesium parachute flare can do to a ships
steel/aluminum mast! Puts thermite to shame!
Finding a bucket of really dry sand in a hurry can be a challenge!

Thermite plates used to be installed on the top of "sensitive" navy
shipboard and aircraft equipment. Somewhere, an expensive 'accident"
occurred, and we were ordered to remove the plates, and immediately
dispose of them over the side into the ocean. (1960's)

On Fri, 11 Apr 2014 08:45:02 -0700, Charles Lindbergh
wrote:

On Thu, 10 Apr 2014 11:26:07 -0700, "W. eWatson" wrote:

I have several HDs that I no longer use. I would like to destroy them so
that they can't be read. Comments?

We disassemble the drives; remove cover, remove platters & remove rare earth
magnets.

With the platters out, we use a very coarse, sturdy, power wire brush (attached
to a 4" or 7" angle grinder to completely remove the thin magnetic cobalt based
alloy from the platter substrate.
(Of course you write random data using normal methods a time of two
first it the disk works. Then of course you use whatever erase
procedure the drive still can perform.)

Now we get to the fun part:
.. Take the drive apart

Now you can take the individual platters and get rid
of the data on them.
You could:
.. Put inside the field of a powerful magnet. I'm not sure
that the magnets the drives come with are powerful enough
and I'm not sure if you can get a powerful enough electromagnet
for anything like a reasonable price. In any event, a permanent
magnet powerful enough and having the field powerful enough
over a reasonable volume is dangerous, and you can't validate
that you really got things. (Alternating field electromagnet
would be better than DC if you decide to go that why and you
can get a stong enough field with an AC magnet.)

so how about
.. Grid up
I think this worked when the densities were much lower, but
now we are at 300000 or more tracks per inch and the same
order of magnitude bits per inch, so a 0.001 inch flake
has 100's of bits by 100's of tracks, and someday it
might be possible to but things together.

.. Heat the platters so past the Curie point. I think
you can do this with reasonable safety and home equipment
with current disk technology. (Do outside, with mask,
it don't do it for more than a few.)

Won't work when disks have 500C+ Curie points, which are
coming.






Also, you have to grind up, or whatever, the chips.
(Same warnings about sizes)

Future use, always use encrypted disks and then destroy
stuff as best as you can, including the chips.

We also remove the controller board so we can recycle the reusable discreet
components.

It sounds like a lot of work, but with a power screwdriver and the correct Torx
bits, it is actually pretty fast and absolutely NSA proof. Wear a full face
shield and a paper respirator mask when you are using the wire brush.

I have several HDs that I no longer use. I would like to destroy them so
that they can't be read. Comments?

just have it shippped by UPS!


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