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#61
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Why would I want to pre "register" Windows 10 anyway?
Wolf K wrote:
On 2015-06-03 8:04 PM, Mike Tomlinson wrote: En el artÃ*culo , . . .winston escribió: Windows Store app developers will be very strongly encouraged to default to the cloud for data storage. The Store is not an archiving location for saving locally created files to one's machine or the cloud. Are you being deliberately dense? People developing apps for the Store will be "encouraged" to write their apps such that those apps store the data they generate in the cloud by default, rather than locally. Does that make more sense? I won't use an app that doesn't have a local storage option. I'd be interested to know what non MSFT apps folks have and use that save data on the app providers cloud without informing the user of that intent. -- ...winston msft mvp consumer apps |
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#62
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Why would I want to pre "register" Windows 10 anyway?
Am 04.06.2015 um 01:35 schrieb . . .winston:
Jonas Klein wrote: Am 03.06.2015 um 23:03 schrieb . . .winston: Existing application software storage locations won't automatically default to the cloud (the code isn't present nor will Win10 override) Fine. Can you show me a proof of this statement? I have NDAs with several customers. If you're wrong, Win10 does default to the cloud and I don't notice it immediately or can't find a way out of the cloud, may I sue you? You really want to attempt to sue a lawyer with bench experience as a judge ? I was not quite serious. ;-) Even if my mistakes in English are not enough, my *.de address should tell you that I'm living in Germany, while your sending times show that you are posting from a location 4 time zones behind GMT, i.e. probably somewhere in the US or Canada. East Coast? What might be more appropriate before you worry about your own backside is what you think or expect to default to the cloud in Windows 10. Provide details then maybe your customers will have a chance of being supported properly. In the long run I'll have to use MS Office 2016, MS Office 2020 or whatever it will be called. What I read so far scares me. For instance: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Office_2016 and especially "Features include: built-in cloud access to create, open, edit, and save files in the cloud straight from the desktop, ...." |
#63
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Why would I want to pre "register" Windows 10 anyway?
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#64
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Why would I want to pre "register" Windows 10 anyway?
On 2015-06-03 9:44 PM, Wolf K wrote:
On 2015-06-03 8:04 PM, Mike Tomlinson wrote: En el artÃ*culo , . . .winston escribió: Windows Store app developers will be very strongly encouraged to default to the cloud for data storage. The Store is not an archiving location for saving locally created files to one's machine or the cloud. Are you being deliberately dense? People developing apps for the Store will be "encouraged" to write their apps such that those apps store the data they generate in the cloud by default, rather than locally. Does that make more sense? I won't use an app that doesn't have a local storage option. You'll probably be forced to migrate to Linux eventually as a result. When even Office saves to OneCloud automatically, you know that it's just a matter of time before more applications take advantage of the fact that users are more or less forced to use a Microsoft Passport within Windows 8 and above to save to the cloud. I like it myself, but I have to admit that I encrypt my documents to prevent theft. -- Slimer Encrypt. "Figuring that linux has only 1.5% of any market share as a desktop os, it also implies that the end user is stupid enough to fiddle with an old WWII bomb that didn't go off." - GreyCloud |
#65
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Why would I want to pre "register" Windows 10 anyway?
| In the long run I'll have to use MS Office 2016, MS Office
| 2020 or whatever it will be called. What I read so far | scares me. For instance: | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Office_2016 and | especially | "Features include: built-in cloud access to create, open, | edit, and save files in the cloud straight from the desktop, | ..." Cloud storage is the shoe in the door in moving toward subscription. It's the excuse that rationalizes why subscription software service is better than owning a copy of the software. Adobe is already doing subscription-only with Photoshop. In that case one *can* save copies of work locally, but you have to know to do that. Otherwise you lose all of your work if you drop the subscription. The software itself is still installed locally, but it's made to appear that it's online. Since most people using MS Office are white collar workers with little tech experience, and don't actually know where their Word DOCs are to begin with, the move toward a subscription service controlled by the software company may be seen by them as merely the addition of a backup and sharing function. |
#66
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Why would I want to pre "register" Windows 10 anyway?
Jonas Klein wrote:
In the long run I'll have to use MS Office 2016, MS Office 2020 or whatever it will be called. What I read so far scares me. For instance: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Office_2016 and especially "Features include: built-in cloud access to create, open, edit, and save files in the cloud straight from the desktop, ..." Office 2013 and later does have a more 'cloud centric' approach than Windows 8 or 10. The cloud direction was pretty much evident as MSFT's intent way back in 2008 when Windows Live Essentials was released which had cross application integration (Mail, Contacts, Calendar, Photo Email, Instant Messaging, PhotoGallery) which used Microsoft's server and also the user's MSFT/Live account's OneDrive/SkyDrive/My Spaces cloud storage as a repository for the features cross integration and functionality. Most folks completely misunderstood WLE thinking it was only supposed to be a replacement for XP Era Outlook Express and Windows Messenger. While it met that intent to a certain extent, it provided on more benefit for MSFT by being focused on the 300,000,000 million Hotmail and Messenger user base. By targeting that group it also provided MSFT with telemetry on how that population used those applications and shared content(pictures and files) in a cloud environment. Any statistician would easily understand the benefit of having a sample size of that volume and the implications for the the probability and predictability of a much larger group of people (in this case data on 300 million is more than enough to generate usage pattern and adoption with reasonable confidence and known error for the normal distribution of the total Windows population. Office 2007/10 came into play just a shade later since it provided two cloud centric options - the ability to pull Contact and Calendar data via that same MSFT/Live account for Hotmail and Messenger and a short time later 'connector's for social media (e.g. Facebook). Second, MSFT also had a feature available for MSFT/Live accounts called Office Online which eventually migrated data storage to SkyDrive (now called OneDrive). As you should be able to see that MSFT's direction for cloud based user storage was almost a given well before Windows 8 and Office 2013 (each of which provided some of the same and more cloud integration) arrived. Windows10 and Office 2016 are just another step in that same evolution but that does not mean user lose all control, but they will have to dig a bit deeper to understand how to control how and what they wish or need to do to manage their own and customer's concerns and needs. It's not all the doom and gloom that some will claim but it does bear more ownership of the product(s) use. -- ...winston msft mvp consumer apps |
#67
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Why would I want to pre "register" Windows 10 anyway?
I won't use an app that doesn't have a local storage option.
I'd be interested to know what non MSFT apps folks have and use that save data on the app providers cloud without informing the user of that intent. That's an interesting point. In my experience, a lot of software now at least calls home when installed, though most does not have to be allowed to. It's got so bad that I generally unplug when installing software. The first time I saw it was many years ago with Norton Utilities. It tried to call home clandestinely while installing. I realized what it was doing and pulled the plug. It then just hung there for several minutes before proceeding. At no point was I informed that it was trying to go online or that it needed to. I tightly control what goes in and out on my own machines. While many things will initially try to go out, most don't keep trying to go out. I don't allow any software through other than things like browsers on ports 80 and 443, email on email ports, etc. Nothing I use otherwise *needs* to go out, including Windows. (Though I can't say for sure that Windows isn't bypassing my firewall through undocumented means.) Nothing I use involves online storage options, as far as I know. While many people live online, with Google docs, gmail, Facebook, etc, none of those things is necessary for full use of a computer. The problem with the online trend is not so much that it allows online storage or sharing, but rather that it's being gradually pushed as the inevitable way of the future. Adobe CS, for instance, can no longer be bought at all in a retail product version. (Not that I care. It's always been absurdly priced, anyway. But PS is the industry standard and people who consider it indispensable now have no choice but to rent it.) Following is a partial list of software I currently have installed and use. None of it needs to go online. If any of it offers online storage they've at least had the good taste not to push it. 7-Zip Acrylic DNS Proxy APIViewer 2004 ASCII Cat Audacity Corel Paint Shop Pro 16 DVD Flick FileZilla FTP Client HxD ImgBurn IrfanView K-Meleon LibreOffice 4 Microsoft Visual Studio 6 Mozilla Firefox Mozilla Thunderbird Mythicsoft Agent Ransack Outlook Express Paint Shop Pro 5 Pale Moon PDF-XChange Viewer PeaZip PowerArchiver SumatraPDF Sysinternals utilities Online Armor firewall TextBridge Pro 8.0 VLC Media Player WinMerge |
#68
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Why would I want to pre "register" Windows 10 anyway?
| KB 3035583 for me tagged as an optional update - requiring the user to
| check the box. | I already posted a URL earlier that indicated that was only a temporary option. They later started pushing the install, so that many people are just seeing a popup appear out of nowhere. You seem to have forgotten that discussion. | - Maybe it would help if you (or all of us) followed your own advice | and disregarded Mayayana's seek and destroy digressive approach g | Have you somehow not noticed that I'm only writing to counter your specific statements? This whole subthread started with me describing the push toward subscription software and online services. I may have characterized it with my own slant, but nothing I said was untrue or misleading. You and the suitably named Mr. Slimer then started to twist facts and attempted to make people believe that Win10 is a choiceless choice. (As with the issue of the adware patch status, which you keep insisting is opt-in only even though you have to know better by now.) If you'd stop posting Microsoft marketing drivel I'll be more than happy to stop rebutting it. |
#69
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Why would I want to pre "register" Windows 10 anyway?
Mayayana wrote:
| KB 3035583 for me tagged as an optional update - requiring the user to | check the box. | I already posted a URL earlier that indicated that was only a temporary option. They later started pushing the install, so that many people are just seeing a popup appear out of nowhere. You seem to have forgotten that discussion. | - Maybe it would help if you (or all of us) followed your own advice | and disregarded Mayayana's seek and destroy digressive approach g | Have you somehow not noticed that I'm only writing to counter your specific statements? This whole subthread started with me describing the push toward subscription software and online services. I may have characterized it with my own slant, but nothing I said was untrue or misleading. You and the suitably named Mr. Slimer then started to twist facts and attempted to make people believe that Win10 is a choiceless choice. (As with the issue of the adware patch status, which you keep insisting is opt-in only even though you have to know better by now.) If you'd stop posting Microsoft marketing drivel I'll be more than happy to stop rebutting it. You should re-read the thread for my responses, they are centered upon the purpose and intent of the Get Win10 app on how it helps making an informed choice on Win10. At no time have I ever stated that it is necessary to move to Win10. You'll have to deal with your Slimer conversations separately, I didn't think it warranted anything beyond a casual glance until you stated 'hoodwinked' at that point it made sense to provide information on what the app specifically does beyond reserving Win10 (i.e. replaces the Upgrade Assistant providing info a W7Sp1/8.1 system's readiness). I'm quite certain I never stated anything was opt-in. But as Char noted, maybe I should no longer read your posts unless someone quotes them -- ...winston msft mvp consumer apps |
#70
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Why would I want to pre "register" Windows 10 anyway?
On Thu, 04 Jun 2015 08:59:25 -0400, Slimer wrote:
You'll probably be forced to migrate to Linux eventually as a result. When even Office saves to OneCloud automatically, you know that it's just a matter of time before more applications take advantage of the fact that users are more or less forced to use a Microsoft Passport within Windows 8 and above to save to the cloud. There's always your own cloud server... Build your own personal cloud server http://www.pcadvisor.co.uk/how-to/so...erver-3378792/ How to: start your own free Cloud Storage server http://www.androidauthority.com/crea...torage-170060/ CNET DIY: Create your own cloud server http://www.cnet.com/videos/diy-create-your-own-cloud/ Gizmos Want your own cloud server http://www.techsupportalert.com/cont...n-your-own.htm |
#71
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Why would I want to pre "register" Windows 10 anyway?
On 6/4/2015 4:16 AM, Jonas Klein wrote:
Am 04.06.2015 um 01:35 schrieb . . .winston: What might be more appropriate before you worry about your own backside is what you think or expect to default to the cloud in Windows 10. Provide details then maybe your customers will have a chance of being supported properly. In the long run I'll have to use MS Office 2016, MS Office 2020 or whatever it will be called. What I read so far scares me. For instance: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Office_2016 and especially "Features include: built-in cloud access to create, open, edit, and save files in the cloud straight from the desktop, ..." Even if the cloud is the default for file storage, it is unlikely to be the only option. In your case, you'd simply need to change your file location to a local drive. No big deal. -- best regards, Neil |
#72
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Why would I want to pre "register" Windows 10 anyway?
Wolf K wrote:
On 2015-06-04 8:59 AM, Slimer wrote: On 2015-06-03 9:44 PM, Wolf K wrote: On 2015-06-03 8:04 PM, Mike Tomlinson wrote: En el artÃ*culo , . . .winston escribió: Windows Store app developers will be very strongly encouraged to default to the cloud for data storage. The Store is not an archiving location for saving locally created files to one's machine or the cloud. Are you being deliberately dense? People developing apps for the Store will be "encouraged" to write their apps such that those apps store the data they generate in the cloud by default, rather than locally. Does that make more sense? I won't use an app that doesn't have a local storage option. You'll probably be forced to migrate to Linux eventually as a result. When even Office saves to OneCloud automatically, you know that it's just a matter of time before more applications take advantage of the fact that users are more or less forced to use a Microsoft Passport within Windows 8 and above to save to the cloud. I like it myself, but I have to admit that I encrypt my documents to prevent theft. What's OneCloud? ;-) When my sis-in-law got her new Win8 machine, she emailed links to her pictures stored in OneCloud, a PITA to retrieve. She's gone back to proper attachments. Have a good day, OneDrive provides the option to send a link for sharing. If done properly the recipient has to do nothing but click the link. Options to view or save the files will be present. e.g. http://1drv.ms/1H4o1N2 Clicking the above link will open the destination in a browser window for viewing and option (upper left) to download the picture. - this is just a simple example of a single pic but the same can be done for an entire folder of pictures (for view and/or download). -- ...winston msft mvp consumer apps |
#73
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Why would I want to pre "register" Windows 10 anyway?
Mayayana wrote:
I won't use an app that doesn't have a local storage option. I'd be interested to know what non MSFT apps folks have and use that save data on the app providers cloud without informing the user of that intent. That's an interesting point. In my experience, a lot of software now at least calls home when installed, though most does not have to be allowed to. It's got so bad that I generally unplug when installing software. The first time I saw it was many years ago with Norton Utilities. It tried to call home clandestinely while installing. I realized what it was doing and pulled the plug. It then just hung there for several minutes before proceeding. At no point was I informed that it was trying to go online or that it needed to. I tightly control what goes in and out on my own machines. While many things will initially try to go out, most don't keep trying to go out. I don't allow any software through other than things like browsers on ports 80 and 443, email on email ports, etc. Nothing I use otherwise *needs* to go out, including Windows. (Though I can't say for sure that Windows isn't bypassing my firewall through undocumented means.) Nothing I use involves online storage options, as far as I know. While many people live online, with Google docs, gmail, Facebook, etc, none of those things is necessary for full use of a computer. The problem with the online trend is not so much that it allows online storage or sharing, but rather that it's being gradually pushed as the inevitable way of the future. Adobe CS, for instance, can no longer be bought at all in a retail product version. (Not that I care. It's always been absurdly priced, anyway. But PS is the industry standard and people who consider it indispensable now have no choice but to rent it.) Following is a partial list of software I currently have installed and use. None of it needs to go online. If any of it offers online storage they've at least had the good taste not to push it. 7-Zip Acrylic DNS Proxy APIViewer 2004 ASCII Cat Audacity Corel Paint Shop Pro 16 DVD Flick FileZilla FTP Client HxD ImgBurn IrfanView K-Meleon LibreOffice 4 Microsoft Visual Studio 6 Mozilla Firefox Mozilla Thunderbird Mythicsoft Agent Ransack Outlook Express Paint Shop Pro 5 Pale Moon PDF-XChange Viewer PeaZip PowerArchiver SumatraPDF Sysinternals utilities Online Armor firewall TextBridge Pro 8.0 VLC Media Player WinMerge You're usage purpose and pattern is not unlike mine though over the lat 5 yrs I've significantly de-cluttered my software base (I need about 10 applications besides Windows, Office, and AV/AM programs.) There always should be concern about privacy and what data is shared or placed on another outside location be it OneDrive, Social Media, Google (ugh) but I'm not going to tell people how they should manage that content. Lol...nor would I as hastily as you 'pull the plug'. I see both benefit and disadvantage across MSFT's o/s and software and social media...but from my perspective much bigger fish present risk on privacy (banks, financial accounts, credit card accounts and use, etc.) all with less user control. -- ...winston msft mvp consumer apps |
#74
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Why would I want to pre "register" Windows 10 anyway?
On 6/4/15 7:38 AM, . . .winston wrote:
Jonas Klein wrote: In the long run I'll have to use MS Office 2016, MS Office 2020 or whatever it will be called. What I read so far scares me. For instance: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Office_2016 and especially "Features include: built-in cloud access to create, open, edit, and save files in the cloud straight from the desktop, ..." Office 2013 and later does have a more 'cloud centric' approach than Windows 8 or 10. The cloud direction was pretty much evident as MSFT's intent way back in 2008 when Windows Live Essentials was released which had cross application integration (Mail, Contacts, Calendar, Photo Email, Instant Messaging, PhotoGallery) which used Microsoft's server and also the user's MSFT/Live account's OneDrive/SkyDrive/My Spaces cloud storage as a repository for the features cross integration and functionality. Most folks completely misunderstood WLE thinking it was only supposed to be a replacement for XP Era Outlook Express and Windows Messenger. While it met that intent to a certain extent, it provided on more benefit for MSFT by being focused on the 300,000,000 million Hotmail and Messenger user base. By targeting that group it also provided MSFT with telemetry on how that population used those applications and shared content(pictures and files) in a cloud environment. Any statistician would easily understand the benefit of having a sample size of that volume and the implications for the the probability and predictability of a much larger group of people (in this case data on 300 million is more than enough to generate usage pattern and adoption with reasonable confidence and known error for the normal distribution of the total Windows population. Office 2007/10 came into play just a shade later since it provided two cloud centric options - the ability to pull Contact and Calendar data via that same MSFT/Live account for Hotmail and Messenger and a short time later 'connector's for social media (e.g. Facebook). Second, MSFT also had a feature available for MSFT/Live accounts called Office Online which eventually migrated data storage to SkyDrive (now called OneDrive). As you should be able to see that MSFT's direction for cloud based user storage was almost a given well before Windows 8 and Office 2013 (each of which provided some of the same and more cloud integration) arrived. Windows10 and Office 2016 are just another step in that same evolution but that does not mean user lose all control, but they will have to dig a bit deeper to understand how to control how and what they wish or need to do to manage their own and customer's concerns and needs. It's not all the doom and gloom that some will claim but it does bear more ownership of the product(s) use. All of this sounds great, in a perfect world. But that's not what we live in. If you use cloud apps and storage, if your internet connection goes down, you're screwed. Plain and simple. And the US has a very aging and deteriorating infrastructure, that in many places struggles under the load. Not to mention the vagaries of mother nature and the threat of terrorist types and hackers. Essentially you're putting your data into someone else's hands, taking no responsibility yourself for the safety of your data. Personally, I don't trust any large company that has a vested interest in how you use your computer to be 100% trustworthy in respecting your rights as the owner of the property. Wasn't it Instagram that was recently caught claiming ownership of photos uploaded to their servers? -- Ken Mac OS X 10.8.5 Firefox 36.0.4 Thunderbird 31.5 "My brain is like lightning, a quick flash and it's gone!" |
#75
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Why would I want to pre "register" Windows 10 anyway?
Ken Springer wrote:
On 6/4/15 7:38 AM, . . .winston wrote: Jonas Klein wrote: In the long run I'll have to use MS Office 2016, MS Office 2020 or whatever it will be called. What I read so far scares me. For instance: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Office_2016 and especially "Features include: built-in cloud access to create, open, edit, and save files in the cloud straight from the desktop, ..." Office 2013 and later does have a more 'cloud centric' approach than Windows 8 or 10. The cloud direction was pretty much evident as MSFT's intent way back in 2008 when Windows Live Essentials was released which had cross application integration (Mail, Contacts, Calendar, Photo Email, Instant Messaging, PhotoGallery) which used Microsoft's server and also the user's MSFT/Live account's OneDrive/SkyDrive/My Spaces cloud storage as a repository for the features cross integration and functionality. Most folks completely misunderstood WLE thinking it was only supposed to be a replacement for XP Era Outlook Express and Windows Messenger. While it met that intent to a certain extent, it provided on more benefit for MSFT by being focused on the 300,000,000 million Hotmail and Messenger user base. By targeting that group it also provided MSFT with telemetry on how that population used those applications and shared content(pictures and files) in a cloud environment. Any statistician would easily understand the benefit of having a sample size of that volume and the implications for the the probability and predictability of a much larger group of people (in this case data on 300 million is more than enough to generate usage pattern and adoption with reasonable confidence and known error for the normal distribution of the total Windows population. Office 2007/10 came into play just a shade later since it provided two cloud centric options - the ability to pull Contact and Calendar data via that same MSFT/Live account for Hotmail and Messenger and a short time later 'connector's for social media (e.g. Facebook). Second, MSFT also had a feature available for MSFT/Live accounts called Office Online which eventually migrated data storage to SkyDrive (now called OneDrive). As you should be able to see that MSFT's direction for cloud based user storage was almost a given well before Windows 8 and Office 2013 (each of which provided some of the same and more cloud integration) arrived. Windows10 and Office 2016 are just another step in that same evolution but that does not mean user lose all control, but they will have to dig a bit deeper to understand how to control how and what they wish or need to do to manage their own and customer's concerns and needs. It's not all the doom and gloom that some will claim but it does bear more ownership of the product(s) use. All of this sounds great, in a perfect world. But that's not what we live in. If you use cloud apps and storage, if your internet connection goes down, you're screwed. Plain and simple. And the US has a very aging and deteriorating infrastructure, that in many places struggles under the load. Not to mention the vagaries of mother nature and the threat of terrorist types and hackers. Essentially you're putting your data into someone else's hands, taking no responsibility yourself for the safety of your data. Personally, I don't trust any large company that has a vested interest in how you use your computer to be 100% trustworthy in respecting your rights as the owner of the property. Wasn't it Instagram that was recently caught claiming ownership of photos uploaded to their servers? Fortunately, at this stage...we still have some level of control over what we decide is worthy of cloud storage. I don't see that as changing soon since their is too much negative perception...that same perception doesn't always provide the whole picture on benefit or disadvantage. Not sure if it was Instagram or another provider. It doesn't much matter - though the important piece of any cloud pie is that use of for the most part agrees to the TOS and Privacy guidelines for those services...and since most don't read those use and agreement is universal - complaining about what one agrees to is like arguing with your mother about agreeing to take out the trash. You can complain but you still do it. -- ...winston msft mvp consumer apps |
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