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Question of licensing/legality



 
 
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  #1  
Old January 15th 13, 04:51 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.help_and_support
default
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3
Default Question of licensing/legality

My wife and I have some four desktops and one laptop, Four computers
have XP mounted on them, all are off-lease corporate computers and the
ones with XP are "refurbished," with what was a clean install of XP .

Anyhow, one computer (wife's desktop) had its Cmos battery die and for
some reason this caused XP to malfunction (MS help died, I couldn't
get into system settings in the control panel, wouldn't even open) I
was trying to set up her new dsl/lan modem and needed to get into the
system to see what was going on so I could load the driver.


I whipped out my trusty "WXPsp3 for refurbished PCs" (says so right
on the label)

I first tried the "repair" options and it seemed to be working, fed it
the license number from the sticker on the desktop case and it was
happy with that. BUT it didn't fix anything. Tried again and ditto.
So I reformatted the drive and reinstalled. It didn't accept the
license number so I used the disk product number and it loaded with
that. Everything was hunky-dory I thought and went home (wife and I
live 120 miles apart) and put a new drive in my own box and formatted
and loaded from the disk and now neither computer wants to "activate."

Both boxes hers and mine, are identical case mother board etc. Came
from the same source. Both have XP (and Vista underneath) license
stickers on them and came from "directron.com." as refurbished with XP
pro SP-3 (same as the disk I have) the disk is genuine (part number
X14-66865), 2008. Holograms and packaging etc. is real MS.

The telephone robot activation tells me I have an illegal copy. I
haven't tried getting a human on the phone...

is what I'm doing illegal? (a clean install of XP on a computer
licensed for XP)

What are my options? I have my wife able to "reactivate" the 30 day
limit but that is pushing the envelope as far as her geek skills go.
Thankfully the laptop allows us to email.

I'm a retired electrical engineer and not wealthy. I want to keep XP
and not "upgrade" to another OS. I can use Linux, but would rather
not, and my wife wouldn't adapt as easily. I can't be there to hold
her hand. Needless to say I don't want to give MS money...
Ads
  #2  
Old January 15th 13, 06:13 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.help_and_support
philo [_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 154
Default Question of licensing/legality

On 01/15/2013 09:51 AM, default wrote:
My wife and I have some four desktops and one laptop, Four computers
have XP mounted on them, all are off-lease corporate computers and the
ones with XP are "refurbished," with what was a clean install of XP .

Anyhow, one computer (wife's desktop) had its Cmos battery die and for
some reason this caused XP to malfunction (MS help died, I couldn't
get into system settings in the control panel, wouldn't even open) I
was trying to set up her new dsl/lan modem and needed to get into the
system to see what was going on so I could load the driver.


I whipped out my trusty "WXPsp3 for refurbished PCs" (says so right
on the label)

I first tried the "repair" options and it seemed to be working, fed it
the license number from the sticker on the desktop case and it was
happy with that. BUT it didn't fix anything. Tried again and ditto.
So I reformatted the drive and reinstalled. It didn't accept the
license number so I used the disk product number and it loaded with
that. Everything was hunky-dory I thought and went home (wife and I
live 120 miles apart) and put a new drive in my own box and formatted
and loaded from the disk and now neither computer wants to "activate."

Both boxes hers and mine, are identical case mother board etc. Came
from the same source. Both have XP (and Vista underneath) license
stickers on them and came from "directron.com." as refurbished with XP
pro SP-3 (same as the disk I have) the disk is genuine (part number
X14-66865), 2008. Holograms and packaging etc. is real MS.

The telephone robot activation tells me I have an illegal copy. I
haven't tried getting a human on the phone...

is what I'm doing illegal? (a clean install of XP on a computer
licensed for XP)

What are my options? I have my wife able to "reactivate" the 30 day
limit but that is pushing the envelope as far as her geek skills go.
Thankfully the laptop allows us to email.

I'm a retired electrical engineer and not wealthy. I want to keep XP
and not "upgrade" to another OS. I can use Linux, but would rather
not, and my wife wouldn't adapt as easily. I can't be there to hold
her hand. Needless to say I don't want to give MS money...



Was the cd one you already had or did it come with the computers you
purchased? If it was not the one that came with the machines.
contact the vendor and see if they can supply media.


Otherwise call the MS number and talk to a real person
--
https://www.createspace.com/3707686
  #3  
Old January 15th 13, 07:28 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.help_and_support
default
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3
Default Question of licensing/legality

On Tue, 15 Jan 2013 11:13:40 -0600, philo* wrote:

On 01/15/2013 09:51 AM, default wrote:
My wife and I have some four desktops and one laptop, Four computers
have XP mounted on them, all are off-lease corporate computers and the
ones with XP are "refurbished," with what was a clean install of XP .

Anyhow, one computer (wife's desktop) had its Cmos battery die and for
some reason this caused XP to malfunction (MS help died, I couldn't
get into system settings in the control panel, wouldn't even open) I
was trying to set up her new dsl/lan modem and needed to get into the
system to see what was going on so I could load the driver.


I whipped out my trusty "WXPsp3 for refurbished PCs" (says so right
on the label)

I first tried the "repair" options and it seemed to be working, fed it
the license number from the sticker on the desktop case and it was
happy with that. BUT it didn't fix anything. Tried again and ditto.
So I reformatted the drive and reinstalled. It didn't accept the
license number so I used the disk product number and it loaded with
that. Everything was hunky-dory I thought and went home (wife and I
live 120 miles apart) and put a new drive in my own box and formatted
and loaded from the disk and now neither computer wants to "activate."

Both boxes hers and mine, are identical case mother board etc. Came
from the same source. Both have XP (and Vista underneath) license
stickers on them and came from "directron.com." as refurbished with XP
pro SP-3 (same as the disk I have) the disk is genuine (part number
X14-66865), 2008. Holograms and packaging etc. is real MS.

The telephone robot activation tells me I have an illegal copy. I
haven't tried getting a human on the phone...

is what I'm doing illegal? (a clean install of XP on a computer
licensed for XP)

What are my options? I have my wife able to "reactivate" the 30 day
limit but that is pushing the envelope as far as her geek skills go.
Thankfully the laptop allows us to email.

I'm a retired electrical engineer and not wealthy. I want to keep XP
and not "upgrade" to another OS. I can use Linux, but would rather
not, and my wife wouldn't adapt as easily. I can't be there to hold
her hand. Needless to say I don't want to give MS money...



Was the cd one you already had or did it come with the computers you
purchased? If it was not the one that came with the machines.
contact the vendor and see if they can supply media.


Otherwise call the MS number and talk to a real person


CD came with the laptop not the desktops. Of course the laptop is
fine... It somehow transferred ownership to my wife, in dealing with
this. For Christmas I got her a bag so she can take it with her (she
travels more than I )

I'm resigned to speaking to a MS person next time I see her, but this
sucks because it limits my hardware tinkering ability - big hassle
every time I change/format a drive.
  #4  
Old January 15th 13, 10:02 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.help_and_support
philo [_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 154
Default Question of licensing/legality

On 01/15/2013 12:28 PM, default wrote:
snip


Otherwise call the MS number and talk to a real person


CD came with the laptop not the desktops. Of course the laptop is
fine... It somehow transferred ownership to my wife, in dealing with
this. For Christmas I got her a bag so she can take it with her (she
travels more than I )

I'm resigned to speaking to a MS person next time I see her, but this
sucks because it limits my hardware tinkering ability - big hassle
every time I change/format a drive.



I see that making a phone call to ms won't help you as you were
attempting to use an already used product number.

--
https://www.createspace.com/3707686
  #5  
Old January 16th 13, 02:43 AM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.help_and_support
VanguardLH[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,881
Default Question of licensing/legality

"default" wrote:

My wife and I have some four desktops and one laptop, Four computers
have XP mounted on them, all are off-lease corporate computers and the
ones with XP are "refurbished," with what was a clean install of XP .


Does "off-lease" mean your company sold off their old hardware to its
employees? If so, did they actually include a *license* for Windows?
That's not always the case. They don't wipe the hard drives and are
really only selling off the hardware. They are NOT allowed to slice out
instances from their volume license when they sell off the hardware.
ALL instances of a volume license are to remain with the same entity or
organization that purchased the volume license. Not only do some
companies screw this up and think they can dole out licenses from their
volume license but you'll see boob/scammers doing the same at eBay.

The instance of Windows that was installed on those computers which were
the company's property were likely from a volume license. That means
when they sell off that old hardware that NONE of them come with a legit
license for Windows. The buyer has to get their own license. Only if
your company gave you your own COA (certificate of authority) and only
if it was for a SINGLE license (not part of their volume license) did
you get a legit license for Windows.

Sometimes when I hire onto a new company, I'll add a perk into the deal
that I get a copy of Windows, Office, or any other software that will
facilitate me working at home to do work for them. While I have
sometimes used their laptop with their software to work from home, any
software that goes on *my* home computers is my property, not theirs.
That means either they give me the hardware/software platform to work
from home, if needed, or they get me a SINGLE-user license for the
software (i.e., they have to go buy a single license).

I whipped out my trusty "WXPsp3 for refurbished PCs" (says so right
on the label)


And where did you BUY that from? Did it come with the old hardware your
company sold/gave to you? Did you ask them if it was part of their
volume license or a single-user license? Companies don't like to buy
single-user licenses (too expensive, they don't need multiples of the
installation media, they don't want to have to track single license on
which workstations).

Both boxes hers and mine, are identical case mother board etc. Came
from the same source. Both have XP (and Vista underneath) license
stickers on them and came from "directron.com." as refurbished with XP
pro SP-3 (same as the disk I have) the disk is genuine (part number
X14-66865), 2008. Holograms and packaging etc. is real MS.


But you also said they came "off-lease" from your employer. Unless you
BOUGHT the Windows to install it, or there was stipulation in the "sale"
from whomever pre-built the computers for you that a single-user license
was included with each computer, you don't know that any of those
instances of Windows are legitimate.

The telephone robot activation tells me I have an illegal copy. I
haven't tried getting a human on the phone...


The sysprep image used in a corporation to build their workstations uses
the product key for the volume license purchased by the company. Volume
license, all instances of them, are to remain with the SAME entity.
They can't go "floating" out somewhere outside the organization that
purchased the volume license. Individual licenses cannot be sold off
(even if the price is free) from a volume license. It is suspect that
you have a legit license for any of those instances of Windows.

Because the product key used in a sysprep image used to build multiple
workstations is different than the sticker slapped onto a host, there is
a mismatch on the product keys. You don't have the product key for the
volume license. Even OEMs that are fabbing thousands of computers use
an image. The instance of Windows that they install is already
validated (i.e., their consumers don't have to go through the validation
process after buying the pre-built computer); however, the product key
on the sticker won't match the one for the pre-validated copy of Windows
that the OEM put on thousands of computers.

You can get Microsoft's Genuine Advantage Diagnostics tool at
http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?linkid=52012. It generates a report
showing the license of an installed instance of Windows. You might be
able to tell if you have a single-user license from its report. I
haven't used this on a workstation (i.e., company host) to see what it
says when a volume license is involved. I believe you want to see
"Windows License Type: Retail" to know you have your own legit license
to Windows. If it says OEM, that instance of Windows cannot be
installed on any other computer. OEM licenses permanently stick to the
first computer on which they are installed. Doesn't matter if the
computer is stolen, lost, burned up, or lost in a divorce settlement.
You can't use an OEM version on any other computer; however, that
doesn't obviate you so upgrading the computer that it becomes basically
a new computer. It's "Windows License Type: Volume" that you do NOT
want to see. If you see Volume, you never got a legit license of
Windows when your company pawned off their old hardware on its employess
rather than pay a jobber to haul it away.

Unless you are working for a very small company, like 20 employees or
less, it is very likely they bought a volume license to install Windows
on all their computers. It's cheaper to buy and easier to manage. Only
very small companies might buy multiple single-user licenses but that's
because they don't know about buying volume licenses (5 instances, an
up). Talk to your employer or from whomever is the "corporate" entity
to which you refer from where you obtained the computer. Even some
not-so-small companies phuck up the handling when getting rid of their
old hardware and mislead the recipients to believe they're getting
software with it.

If it was a "corporate" workstation as you stated, most likely all you
got was hardware. No software was included. You got only hardware that
included a polluted hard disk. They were too lazy or ignorant to wipe
the hard disk before redistribution. Contact them to find out if they
indeed included a SINGLE-user license of Windows with the hardware or if
they left an instance of Windows that is part of their volume license on
their workstations (i.e., they sold off polluted hardware).

What are my options? I have my wife able to "reactivate" the 30 day
limit but that is pushing the envelope as far as her geek skills go.
Thankfully the laptop allows us to email.


There is no "reactivation" of the 30-day trial period. If you don't
validate an instance of Windows, it will remain full functional during
the first 30 days after installation but thereafter will cripple or
disable itself. You don't reactivate. You use a self-expiring trial
version that you have to activate before the 1-month trial expires.

I'm a retired electrical engineer and not wealthy. I want to keep XP
and not "upgrade" to another OS. I can use Linux, but would rather
not, and my wife wouldn't adapt as easily. I can't be there to hold
her hand. Needless to say I don't want to give MS money...


Contact whomever sold you the computers. Find out if they truly
included a SINGLE-USER license of Windows with EACH computer. If you
got them from a corporation, most likely no license was included. They
still own the volume license used to install those instances of Windows.
They are not permitted to slice out instances of licenses from their
volume license. All instances remain within the entity that purchased
the volume license.

You could try calling Microsoft to get telephone activation of your
install of Windows. They will ask for the old product key (the one on
the sticker). If it's a volume license, they'll reject your request to
get a new product key.

In the case of Dell or any OEM using the same image to lay onto
thousands of computers, and because the product key on the sticker
doesn't match the one in the image, you get stuck having to call the OEM
to get a new product key instead of using the one on the sticker if you
use their same image to restore your computer. You could call Microsoft
to find out what they say but you should first call whomever you got the
computers to find out what they say. If it's an OEM license, you get
the product key from the OEM'er. If retail, you get it from Microsoft.
If it is a volume license, YOU had to buy the volume license. The
corporation from whom you got the hardware is not allowed to dole out
instances of Windows from their volume license.
  #6  
Old January 16th 13, 03:32 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.help_and_support
default
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3
Default Question of licensing/legality

On Tue, 15 Jan 2013 19:43:14 -0600, VanguardLH wrote:

"default" wrote:

My wife and I have some four desktops and one laptop, Four computers
have XP mounted on them, all are off-lease corporate computers and the
ones with XP are "refurbished," with what was a clean install of XP .


Does "off-lease" mean your company sold off their old hardware to its
employees? If so, did they actually include a *license* for Windows?
That's not always the case. They don't wipe the hard drives and are
really only selling off the hardware. They are NOT allowed to slice out
instances from their volume license when they sell off the hardware.
ALL instances of a volume license are to remain with the same entity or
organization that purchased the volume license. Not only do some
companies screw this up and think they can dole out licenses from their
volume license but you'll see boob/scammers doing the same at eBay.

The instance of Windows that was installed on those computers which were
the company's property were likely from a volume license. That means
when they sell off that old hardware that NONE of them come with a legit
license for Windows. The buyer has to get their own license. Only if
your company gave you your own COA (certificate of authority) and only
if it was for a SINGLE license (not part of their volume license) did
you get a legit license for Windows.

Sometimes when I hire onto a new company, I'll add a perk into the deal
that I get a copy of Windows, Office, or any other software that will
facilitate me working at home to do work for them. While I have
sometimes used their laptop with their software to work from home, any
software that goes on *my* home computers is my property, not theirs.
That means either they give me the hardware/software platform to work
from home, if needed, or they get me a SINGLE-user license for the
software (i.e., they have to go buy a single license).

I whipped out my trusty "WXPsp3 for refurbished PCs" (says so right
on the label)


And where did you BUY that from? Did it come with the old hardware your
company sold/gave to you? Did you ask them if it was part of their
volume license or a single-user license? Companies don't like to buy
single-user licenses (too expensive, they don't need multiples of the
installation media, they don't want to have to track single license on
which workstations).

Both boxes hers and mine, are identical case mother board etc. Came
from the same source. Both have XP (and Vista underneath) license
stickers on them and came from "directron.com." as refurbished with XP
pro SP-3 (same as the disk I have) the disk is genuine (part number
X14-66865), 2008. Holograms and packaging etc. is real MS.


But you also said they came "off-lease" from your employer. Unless you
BOUGHT the Windows to install it, or there was stipulation in the "sale"
from whomever pre-built the computers for you that a single-user license
was included with each computer, you don't know that any of those
instances of Windows are legitimate.

The telephone robot activation tells me I have an illegal copy. I
haven't tried getting a human on the phone...


The sysprep image used in a corporation to build their workstations uses
the product key for the volume license purchased by the company. Volume
license, all instances of them, are to remain with the SAME entity.
They can't go "floating" out somewhere outside the organization that
purchased the volume license. Individual licenses cannot be sold off
(even if the price is free) from a volume license. It is suspect that
you have a legit license for any of those instances of Windows.

Because the product key used in a sysprep image used to build multiple
workstations is different than the sticker slapped onto a host, there is
a mismatch on the product keys. You don't have the product key for the
volume license. Even OEMs that are fabbing thousands of computers use
an image. The instance of Windows that they install is already
validated (i.e., their consumers don't have to go through the validation
process after buying the pre-built computer); however, the product key
on the sticker won't match the one for the pre-validated copy of Windows
that the OEM put on thousands of computers.

You can get Microsoft's Genuine Advantage Diagnostics tool at
http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?linkid=52012. It generates a report
showing the license of an installed instance of Windows. You might be
able to tell if you have a single-user license from its report. I
haven't used this on a workstation (i.e., company host) to see what it
says when a volume license is involved. I believe you want to see
"Windows License Type: Retail" to know you have your own legit license
to Windows. If it says OEM, that instance of Windows cannot be
installed on any other computer. OEM licenses permanently stick to the
first computer on which they are installed. Doesn't matter if the
computer is stolen, lost, burned up, or lost in a divorce settlement.
You can't use an OEM version on any other computer; however, that
doesn't obviate you so upgrading the computer that it becomes basically
a new computer. It's "Windows License Type: Volume" that you do NOT
want to see. If you see Volume, you never got a legit license of
Windows when your company pawned off their old hardware on its employess
rather than pay a jobber to haul it away.

Unless you are working for a very small company, like 20 employees or
less, it is very likely they bought a volume license to install Windows
on all their computers. It's cheaper to buy and easier to manage. Only
very small companies might buy multiple single-user licenses but that's
because they don't know about buying volume licenses (5 instances, an
up). Talk to your employer or from whomever is the "corporate" entity
to which you refer from where you obtained the computer. Even some
not-so-small companies phuck up the handling when getting rid of their
old hardware and mislead the recipients to believe they're getting
software with it.

If it was a "corporate" workstation as you stated, most likely all you
got was hardware. No software was included. You got only hardware that
included a polluted hard disk. They were too lazy or ignorant to wipe
the hard disk before redistribution. Contact them to find out if they
indeed included a SINGLE-user license of Windows with the hardware or if
they left an instance of Windows that is part of their volume license on
their workstations (i.e., they sold off polluted hardware).

What are my options? I have my wife able to "reactivate" the 30 day
limit but that is pushing the envelope as far as her geek skills go.
Thankfully the laptop allows us to email.


There is no "reactivation" of the 30-day trial period. If you don't
validate an instance of Windows, it will remain full functional during
the first 30 days after installation but thereafter will cripple or
disable itself. You don't reactivate. You use a self-expiring trial
version that you have to activate before the 1-month trial expires.

I'm a retired electrical engineer and not wealthy. I want to keep XP
and not "upgrade" to another OS. I can use Linux, but would rather
not, and my wife wouldn't adapt as easily. I can't be there to hold
her hand. Needless to say I don't want to give MS money...


Contact whomever sold you the computers. Find out if they truly
included a SINGLE-USER license of Windows with EACH computer. If you
got them from a corporation, most likely no license was included. They
still own the volume license used to install those instances of Windows.
They are not permitted to slice out instances of licenses from their
volume license. All instances remain within the entity that purchased
the volume license.

You could try calling Microsoft to get telephone activation of your
install of Windows. They will ask for the old product key (the one on
the sticker). If it's a volume license, they'll reject your request to
get a new product key.

In the case of Dell or any OEM using the same image to lay onto
thousands of computers, and because the product key on the sticker
doesn't match the one in the image, you get stuck having to call the OEM
to get a new product key instead of using the one on the sticker if you
use their same image to restore your computer. You could call Microsoft
to find out what they say but you should first call whomever you got the
computers to find out what they say. If it's an OEM license, you get
the product key from the OEM'er. If retail, you get it from Microsoft.
If it is a volume license, YOU had to buy the volume license. The
corporation from whom you got the hardware is not allowed to dole out
instances of Windows from their volume license.


As I already said, the computers came from directron, a reseller of
used computers, surplus hardware, etc... It is supposed to be a
single license. I did some on line investigating and found the (small
niche) company that assembled it originally sells to schools. Big,
too loud,extra fan, Intel mobo, better than average video card, high
quality case, etc..

Not a branded bios or OS. I won't buy Dell for that reason.

OK, call I will (for wife's machine)

Plan B letter to FTC
  #7  
Old January 16th 13, 08:31 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.help_and_support
VanguardLH[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,881
Default Question of licensing/legality

"default" wrote:

VanguardLH wrote:

"default" wrote:

My wife and I have some four desktops and one laptop, Four computers
have XP mounted on them, all are off-lease corporate computers and the
ones with XP are "refurbished," with what was a clean install of XP .


Does "off-lease" mean your company sold off their old hardware to its
employees? If so, did they actually include a *license* for Windows?
That's not always the case. They don't wipe the hard drives and are
really only selling off the hardware. They are NOT allowed to slice out
instances from their volume license when they sell off the hardware.
ALL instances of a volume license are to remain with the same entity or
organization that purchased the volume license. Not only do some
companies screw this up and think they can dole out licenses from their
volume license but you'll see boob/scammers doing the same at eBay.

The instance of Windows that was installed on those computers which were
the company's property were likely from a volume license. That means
when they sell off that old hardware that NONE of them come with a legit
license for Windows. The buyer has to get their own license. Only if
your company gave you your own COA (certificate of authority) and only
if it was for a SINGLE license (not part of their volume license) did
you get a legit license for Windows.

Sometimes when I hire onto a new company, I'll add a perk into the deal
that I get a copy of Windows, Office, or any other software that will
facilitate me working at home to do work for them. While I have
sometimes used their laptop with their software to work from home, any
software that goes on *my* home computers is my property, not theirs.
That means either they give me the hardware/software platform to work
from home, if needed, or they get me a SINGLE-user license for the
software (i.e., they have to go buy a single license).

I whipped out my trusty "WXPsp3 for refurbished PCs" (says so right
on the label)


And where did you BUY that from? Did it come with the old hardware your
company sold/gave to you? Did you ask them if it was part of their
volume license or a single-user license? Companies don't like to buy
single-user licenses (too expensive, they don't need multiples of the
installation media, they don't want to have to track single license on
which workstations).

Both boxes hers and mine, are identical case mother board etc. Came
from the same source. Both have XP (and Vista underneath) license
stickers on them and came from "directron.com." as refurbished with XP
pro SP-3 (same as the disk I have) the disk is genuine (part number
X14-66865), 2008. Holograms and packaging etc. is real MS.


But you also said they came "off-lease" from your employer. Unless you
BOUGHT the Windows to install it, or there was stipulation in the "sale"
from whomever pre-built the computers for you that a single-user license
was included with each computer, you don't know that any of those
instances of Windows are legitimate.

The telephone robot activation tells me I have an illegal copy. I
haven't tried getting a human on the phone...


The sysprep image used in a corporation to build their workstations uses
the product key for the volume license purchased by the company. Volume
license, all instances of them, are to remain with the SAME entity.
They can't go "floating" out somewhere outside the organization that
purchased the volume license. Individual licenses cannot be sold off
(even if the price is free) from a volume license. It is suspect that
you have a legit license for any of those instances of Windows.

Because the product key used in a sysprep image used to build multiple
workstations is different than the sticker slapped onto a host, there is
a mismatch on the product keys. You don't have the product key for the
volume license. Even OEMs that are fabbing thousands of computers use
an image. The instance of Windows that they install is already
validated (i.e., their consumers don't have to go through the validation
process after buying the pre-built computer); however, the product key
on the sticker won't match the one for the pre-validated copy of Windows
that the OEM put on thousands of computers.

You can get Microsoft's Genuine Advantage Diagnostics tool at
http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?linkid=52012. It generates a report
showing the license of an installed instance of Windows. You might be
able to tell if you have a single-user license from its report. I
haven't used this on a workstation (i.e., company host) to see what it
says when a volume license is involved. I believe you want to see
"Windows License Type: Retail" to know you have your own legit license
to Windows. If it says OEM, that instance of Windows cannot be
installed on any other computer. OEM licenses permanently stick to the
first computer on which they are installed. Doesn't matter if the
computer is stolen, lost, burned up, or lost in a divorce settlement.
You can't use an OEM version on any other computer; however, that
doesn't obviate you so upgrading the computer that it becomes basically
a new computer. It's "Windows License Type: Volume" that you do NOT
want to see. If you see Volume, you never got a legit license of
Windows when your company pawned off their old hardware on its employess
rather than pay a jobber to haul it away.

Unless you are working for a very small company, like 20 employees or
less, it is very likely they bought a volume license to install Windows
on all their computers. It's cheaper to buy and easier to manage. Only
very small companies might buy multiple single-user licenses but that's
because they don't know about buying volume licenses (5 instances, an
up). Talk to your employer or from whomever is the "corporate" entity
to which you refer from where you obtained the computer. Even some
not-so-small companies phuck up the handling when getting rid of their
old hardware and mislead the recipients to believe they're getting
software with it.

If it was a "corporate" workstation as you stated, most likely all you
got was hardware. No software was included. You got only hardware that
included a polluted hard disk. They were too lazy or ignorant to wipe
the hard disk before redistribution. Contact them to find out if they
indeed included a SINGLE-user license of Windows with the hardware or if
they left an instance of Windows that is part of their volume license on
their workstations (i.e., they sold off polluted hardware).

What are my options? I have my wife able to "reactivate" the 30 day
limit but that is pushing the envelope as far as her geek skills go.
Thankfully the laptop allows us to email.


There is no "reactivation" of the 30-day trial period. If you don't
validate an instance of Windows, it will remain full functional during
the first 30 days after installation but thereafter will cripple or
disable itself. You don't reactivate. You use a self-expiring trial
version that you have to activate before the 1-month trial expires.

I'm a retired electrical engineer and not wealthy. I want to keep XP
and not "upgrade" to another OS. I can use Linux, but would rather
not, and my wife wouldn't adapt as easily. I can't be there to hold
her hand. Needless to say I don't want to give MS money...


Contact whomever sold you the computers. Find out if they truly
included a SINGLE-USER license of Windows with EACH computer. If you
got them from a corporation, most likely no license was included. They
still own the volume license used to install those instances of Windows.
They are not permitted to slice out instances of licenses from their
volume license. All instances remain within the entity that purchased
the volume license.

You could try calling Microsoft to get telephone activation of your
install of Windows. They will ask for the old product key (the one on
the sticker). If it's a volume license, they'll reject your request to
get a new product key.

In the case of Dell or any OEM using the same image to lay onto
thousands of computers, and because the product key on the sticker
doesn't match the one in the image, you get stuck having to call the OEM
to get a new product key instead of using the one on the sticker if you
use their same image to restore your computer. You could call Microsoft
to find out what they say but you should first call whomever you got the
computers to find out what they say. If it's an OEM license, you get
the product key from the OEM'er. If retail, you get it from Microsoft.
If it is a volume license, YOU had to buy the volume license. The
corporation from whom you got the hardware is not allowed to dole out
instances of Windows from their volume license.


As I already said, the computers came from directron, a reseller of
used computers, surplus hardware, etc... It is supposed to be a
single license. I did some on line investigating and found the (small
niche) company that assembled it originally sells to schools. Big,
too loud,extra fan, Intel mobo, better than average video card, high
quality case, etc..


"all are off-lease corporate computers"
"came from directron.com"

Very few companies (not involved with hardware or software development)
are going to have their employees build the computers that the companies
use. They have someone ELSE build those computers. Directron has
corporate sales, too. So it appeared you were talking about some
company's computers which happened to have been fabbed by Directron.
Someone had to build them for that company. It looked like you said you
got the computers from a company and they got them from Directron.

If you didn't mean to imply that you got the computers from some
corporation then simply saying they were refurbished computers would've
properly identified in what state they were when you obtained them. It
wouldn't matter if the computers were some "off-lease corporate"
(company disposed property) or some home user's trade-in. In fact, you
really can't be sure what was the source of a refurbished computer.
Look at http://search.directron.com/newsearc...nd=refurbished to
see that they don't tell you who was the prior owner. They're not
tracking that in Sales. There would probably also be a privacy issue if
they told you. Alas, depending on who does the refurbishing dictates
whether you get cleaned or polluted hardware. Even for refurbished
computers where a legit license of Windows is provided, you should've
received the COA sticker, COA paper, installation media for Windows, and
the sales receipt should show a license was included in the sale.

If the computers were made by Directron, sold/leased to some company,
and then the company divested themself of old hardware to sell or give
to you then my prior post stands regarding the license. In this case,
yep, they were "off-leased corporate" units that were distributed by
Directron (to that company).

If you bought refurbished computers directly from Directron then you
don't know they were off-leased corporate units or where they came from
before Directron refurbished them. Hell, they could be units bought
from Direction, found defective, and returned to Directron who then
fixes them and resells them. Or the units were defective, returned to
the manufacturer, and then Directron got them to sell at a discount. In
that case, saying "off-lease corporate" was unfounded (you don't know)
and misleading.

Saying "came from Directron" doesn't say YOU got them from there. Not
the same as saying "I bought them from Directron". A company (inferred
by "off-leased corporate") could've bought them from Directron and then
the company sold/gave it to you. I went by what you said, not what you
meant to say.

Not a branded bios or OS. I won't buy Dell for that reason.


But you are still buying "pre-builts" that someone else fabbed for you
and which you buy on spec rather than knowing what's really inside.
Some of those refurbs at Directron are Dell. Seems most of their
refurbs are name-brand items. Unless you build your own (not likely for
a laptop) to get mobos with a generic BIOS (that's been tweaked to a
particular mobo design), you're stuck with branded BIOSes.

OK, call I will (for wife's machine)


Since now it's evident you bought refurbs from Directron, you'll
probably want to start there. It's likely the license you have for
Windows is an OEM version which means it's not retail and not
Microsoft's responsibility to dole out new product keys when you didn't
pay them for support. OEM means no support from Microsoft. OEM means
support from the OEM. If the OEM vanishes, you're screwed.

In the bill of sale from Directron for your order, is a license of
Windows listed? I doubt Directron is selling new or refurb units with
polluted hard disks containing used copies of Windows. The refurb
process wipes the hard disk and an image of the OS is laid onto the disk
and that is a legit license but most likely an OEM version. However,
it's possible they didn't remove an old COA sticker so its product key
doesn't match with the one for the image Directron or the manufacturer
used when refurbishing the unit.

Plan B letter to FTC


Why would they care? They probably won't take action on a single case
unless a loss of over $25K can be proven. If the bill of sale shows a
license of Windows was included then the FTC can't be bothered with
single-party civil cases that dispute authenticity of goods or services.
I suppose if you wanted to pursue the issue that you could file in
conciliatory court (small claims) but you'll probably get stuck having
to file in the state of [in]corporation for the seller unless you bought
from a local outlet for Directron.

Besides, if Directron, as the OEM, honors its requirement to support
validation of OEM versions of Windows, then what's the beef? Check your
sales receipt or go online to their site to check your order. See if a
license for Windows was listed. If so, start at Directron. If not, you
didn't buy Windows from Directron (and they gave you polluted hardware).
  #8  
Old January 30th 13, 08:57 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.help_and_support
Greegor
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 96
Default Question of licensing/legality

Even back before XP, install CD's are usually set to
only work with a set range of "Product Keys".

No issue of install CD works with all Product Keys.

Each issue works with some select range of them.

AND even if you have a CD/Key that do work together,
they might NOT work with hardware they were not
originally designed for.

Some OEM versions look for their brand of
computer hardware, but some do not.

If you bought an XP CD/License COA/Key from
TigerDirect or some other seller, they got
locked to the first hardware somebody installed
them on.

The CD's and COA Keys Microsoft sold to
"official refurbishers" may have some
additional quirks that I don't know about
but I'm assuming those were similarly locked
to the INDIVIDUAL COMPUTER, not just the
type of hardware they were set up on.

I'm actually quite happy with my fleet
of 6 (so far) identical "off lease" Dell
computers. I got the original CD's and
I can move any bootable drive around from
machine to machine, as convenient.

These same machines sell with "official refurbisher" CD's
but I expected those would NOT allow me to move
any bootable drive around among identical hardware.

No, I never enter or use the ProductKey from the
COA stickers, because if I did, then that install
would be locked to that individual computer forever.

The install CD's use a built in Product Key that
is generic to all 6 computers, it doesn't ask me
for a product key anywhere in the install process.

I WANTED that kind of interchangeable situation, very much.
More than just a model, since there are at least
6 models of main board in this model, I specify
the model of mainboard to match my fleet.

The short of it is that you really need the proper
install CD for the two computers you're having
trouble with, AND since you said you don't like
OEM's, THAT characteristic means that each
install is locked tightly to that individual machine
and so bootable drives can NOT be swapped
around among your desktop computers.

Why is it again that you are so dead set
against OEM computers?
 




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