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Specific SSD + motherboard compatibility question



 
 
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  #1  
Old February 5th 17, 07:09 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
Jeff Barnett[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 298
Default Specific SSD + motherboard compatibility question

I'm think of updating our systems with larger SSD for C disks. The
relevant parts of the configuration would be:

OS: Win 7 Pro SP1 64 bits
Motherboard: Asus x-79 Deluxe
SSD: Samsung Pro 850 1TB

The current C disks are Samsung Pro 840 256GB. The OS and motherboard
are the same. Does anyone have knowledge that would indicated if the
proposed SSD upgrade will or will not work? I do not want to reinstall
Windows or a bunch of applications.

I have interacted with Asus and Samsung support in the past and found
both neither forthright or knowledgeable. My interactions might be a bad
sample of their performances but I would more trust someone with
specific experience and no (sales) ax to grind.

TIA
--
Jeff Barnett
Ads
  #2  
Old February 5th 17, 08:14 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
Char Jackson
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,449
Default Specific SSD + motherboard compatibility question

On Sun, 5 Feb 2017 11:09:29 -0700, Jeff Barnett wrote:

I'm think of updating our systems with larger SSD for C disks. The
relevant parts of the configuration would be:

OS: Win 7 Pro SP1 64 bits
Motherboard: Asus x-79 Deluxe
SSD: Samsung Pro 850 1TB

The current C disks are Samsung Pro 840 256GB. The OS and motherboard
are the same. Does anyone have knowledge that would indicated if the
proposed SSD upgrade will or will not work? I do not want to reinstall
Windows or a bunch of applications.


No problem. Clone C: to the new drive, shut down, then boot with only
the new SSD connected. Bob's your uncle.

--

Char Jackson
  #3  
Old February 5th 17, 09:03 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
Paul[_32_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 11,873
Default Specific SSD + motherboard compatibility question

Ken1943 wrote:
On Sun, 5 Feb 2017 11:09:29 -0700, Jeff Barnett
wrote:

I'm think of updating our systems with larger SSD for C disks. The
relevant parts of the configuration would be:

OS: Win 7 Pro SP1 64 bits
Motherboard: Asus x-79 Deluxe
SSD: Samsung Pro 850 1TB

The current C disks are Samsung Pro 840 256GB. The OS and motherboard
are the same. Does anyone have knowledge that would indicated if the
proposed SSD upgrade will or will not work? I do not want to reinstall
Windows or a bunch of applications.

I have interacted with Asus and Samsung support in the past and found
both neither forthright or knowledgeable. My interactions might be a bad
sample of their performances but I would more trust someone with
specific experience and no (sales) ax to grind.

TIA


Look at this thread
http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/33...ot-drive-added

and more with a search Asus x-79 Deluxe tb drive


Ken1943


That example could be a UEFI versus UEFI+CSM issue.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unifie...ware_Interface

"Booting UEFI systems from GPT-partitioned disks is commonly
called UEFI-GPT booting. Despite the fact that the UEFI
specification requires MBR partition tables to be fully
supported, some UEFI firmware implementations immediately
switch to the BIOS-based CSM booting depending on the type
of boot disk's partition table, effectively preventing UEFI
booting to be performed from EFI System partitions on
MBR-partitioned disks. Such a boot scheme is commonly
called UEFI-MBR."

So what that says, is "it all works - except when it doesn't work".
There are all sorts of horrid bugs in early UEFI, some which
can brick the setup. Things aren't so dire today. All it would
take, is the disk sniffing code in the BIOS, to get "hung up"
when scanning one of the disks, to end the booting process on
the spot.

I would say, if a person has "managed to tame booting" on their
previous configuration, it should still work now. Clone and go.

But, because the BIOS is "so so clever", there can still be cases
where initial conditions prevent successful operation.

An example from long ago, was my Asus branded motherboard with
old-fashioned BIOS. If the MBR sector was all-zero (a possible
factory condition), if you plugged in that disk, the computer would
crash at BIOS level. Disconnect the disk again, it all works. I
did not fix that at the time, instead choosing not to connect
such disks to the computer :-) (I would simply prep the disk on
another computer, so as not to trigger the bug.) So what that
BIOS was doing, is checking for 0xAA55 signature bytes in sector 0,
and not finding them.

As Char has basically said "it should work, except if it doesn't work".
The OP has no particular reason to fear this transition. As long
as a cloning software that modifies identifiers is used, you
might even be able to boot the new drive, while mistakenly leaving
the old drive connected. (I.e. Don't clone using dd.exe and
expect it to work seamlessly if both drives are seen at the
same time on the first boot.) But I'm too chicken to be doing that
test case over and over again. I would disconnect the 256GB
drive, before the very first boot of the 1TB drive. As I would
not want to waste the time cloning it all over again. Once the 1TB
drive is booted, you can reconnect the 256GB on later sessions,
and it should no longer matter.

When Macrium clones, it changes the GUID numbers for safety
(in the boot sense).

There is a fair amount of documentation out there now, including
several web sites with "special tools" for working with UEFI. So
if you get yourself into a scrape, there's a lot more advice
than there was when the first EFI board came out.

I've only done one UEFI/GPT setup here, and I found the setup
to be a royal mess. But, um, don't let that deter you :-) I
eventually got my dual boot Windows/Linux UEFI/GPT working.
Some people love this stuff, whereas I'd rather be done with it
and move on. My experience didn't have me trying that a second
time.

And there have been actual capacity bugs in BIOS code modules.
The old SIL3112 SATA controller BIOS module, would "blow up"
if it saw a 1TB drive. A late fix for that code, removed the
bug. Some people were using BIOS hacking tools, to get that
code fix into place.

External enclosures, have all sorts of capacity bugs. And the
"quality" is much worse than a motherboard BIOS, in terms of
getting the details right. I seem to remember a NAS that
would barf, if a disk slightly larger than 200GB was plugged in.
It takes all kinds...

Paul
  #4  
Old February 5th 17, 11:22 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
VanguardLH[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,881
Default Specific SSD + motherboard compatibility question

Jeff Barnett on 2017/02/05 wrote:

I'm think of updating our systems with larger SSD for C disks. The
relevant parts of the configuration would be:

OS: Win 7 Pro SP1 64 bits
Motherboard: Asus x-79 Deluxe
SSD: Samsung Pro 850 1TB

The current C disks are Samsung Pro 840 256GB. The OS and motherboard
are the same. Does anyone have knowledge that would indicated if the
proposed SSD upgrade will or will not work? I do not want to reinstall
Windows or a bunch of applications.

I have interacted with Asus and Samsung support in the past and found
both neither forthright or knowledgeable. My interactions might be a bad
sample of their performances but I would more trust someone with
specific experience and no (sales) ax to grind.

TIA


If you subtract all your data files from consumption in the file system
for drive C:, and even programs that don't have to install there (e.g.,
games), how much free space do you have? Seems a pricey solution to get
a huge SSD just so you can pollute it with files that do not have to
reside in the partition on that SSD.

While there are registry tricks for moving or redirecting the
userprofile (with its Documents and other data folders) to another
drive, that often results in problems. Just use your own folders on
another drive whether it be another SSD or the slower HDD (since it's
not likely you are operating a server where data file access speed is of
concern and you are likely opening those files only occasionally).

On a 250GB SSD, and after over a year of using it after installing all
software but keeping data files elsewhere, especially huge ones (videos,
VHD images), I still have 170 GB free, and that's with a couple video
games that I have not yet moved to the HDD (which would happen if the
SSD free space got too small). If you are doing video editing and need
a much larger disk to accomodate the huge files, get a 2nd SSD if you
really think it provides added speed for the processing. That old
Sabertooth mobo has another brown SATA-3 6Gbps port (the other 4 bloack
ones are just SATA-2 3Gbps) to let you add another fast SSD drive.

  #5  
Old February 6th 17, 07:31 AM posted to alt.windows7.general
Jeff Barnett[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 298
Default Specific SSD + motherboard compatibility question

VanguardLH wrote on 2/5/2017 3:22 PM:
Jeff Barnett on 2017/02/05 wrote:

I'm think of updating our systems with larger SSD for C disks. The
relevant parts of the configuration would be:

OS: Win 7 Pro SP1 64 bits
Motherboard: Asus x-79 Deluxe
SSD: Samsung Pro 850 1TB

The current C disks are Samsung Pro 840 256GB. The OS and motherboard
are the same. Does anyone have knowledge that would indicated if the
proposed SSD upgrade will or will not work? I do not want to reinstall
Windows or a bunch of applications.

I have interacted with Asus and Samsung support in the past and found
both neither forthright or knowledgeable. My interactions might be a bad
sample of their performances but I would more trust someone with
specific experience and no (sales) ax to grind.

TIA


If you subtract all your data files from consumption in the file system
for drive C:, and even programs that don't have to install there (e.g.,
games), how much free space do you have? Seems a pricey solution to get
a huge SSD just so you can pollute it with files that do not have to
reside in the partition on that SSD.

While there are registry tricks for moving or redirecting the
userprofile (with its Documents and other data folders) to another
drive, that often results in problems. Just use your own folders on
another drive whether it be another SSD or the slower HDD (since it's
not likely you are operating a server where data file access speed is of
concern and you are likely opening those files only occasionally).

On a 250GB SSD, and after over a year of using it after installing all
software but keeping data files elsewhere, especially huge ones (videos,
VHD images), I still have 170 GB free, and that's with a couple video
games that I have not yet moved to the HDD (which would happen if the
SSD free space got too small). If you are doing video editing and need
a much larger disk to accomodate the huge files, get a 2nd SSD if you
really think it provides added speed for the processing. That old
Sabertooth mobo has another brown SATA-3 6Gbps port (the other 4 bloack
ones are just SATA-2 3Gbps) to let you add another fast SSD drive.


I have two 4TB HDD: one is used for most data files; the second is used
to hold backups of the SSD and first HDD - nothing on the second HDD is
backed up or used to create restore points so it can provides swap
storage, easy-to-reconstruct systems like MikTeX, browser caches, etc.
Every other weekly backup is rolled to an external disk.

There are two nearly identical machines he the first is used to play
games and the second supports PhotoShop. The monitors are obviously
different but the rest of the configurations are the same. The game
machine dedicates a bunch of its SSD to game and game-state storage. The
PhotoShop machine dedicates a bunch of its SSD to active image folders
and PhotoShop utility areas. About 10% of each SSD is "over
provisioning" used by Samsung software to increase the effectiveness of
trying to equal-use blocks of the SSD. Both machines have only about 40%
of the total SSD left and that percentage is shrinking a little each
month. MS crap on SYSWOW, etc. continues to grow.

At some point I will install a larger SSD and I only want to do it once
so 1TB seems a good size and the cost per GB is good. (Of course the EVO
line is even better price wise.) These machines were quite expensive
when we consed them a few years ago and would still be considered
speedy. I want them to last a few more years and I'm checking to see
what options are available.
--
Jeff Barnett

  #6  
Old February 6th 17, 07:36 AM posted to alt.windows7.general
Jeff Barnett[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 298
Default Specific SSD + motherboard compatibility question

Ken1943 wrote on 2/5/2017 11:43 AM:
On Sun, 5 Feb 2017 11:09:29 -0700, Jeff Barnett
wrote:

I'm think of updating our systems with larger SSD for C disks. The
relevant parts of the configuration would be:

OS: Win 7 Pro SP1 64 bits
Motherboard: Asus x-79 Deluxe
SSD: Samsung Pro 850 1TB

The current C disks are Samsung Pro 840 256GB. The OS and motherboard
are the same. Does anyone have knowledge that would indicated if the
proposed SSD upgrade will or will not work? I do not want to reinstall
Windows or a bunch of applications.

I have interacted with Asus and Samsung support in the past and found
both neither forthright or knowledgeable. My interactions might be a bad
sample of their performances but I would more trust someone with
specific experience and no (sales) ax to grind.

TIA


Look at this thread
http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/33...ot-drive-added

and more with a search Asus x-79 Deluxe tb drive


That article is about the P9X79 and it is quite different from the X79
Deluxe. The latter more or less replaced the former in the Asus arsenal.
I searched before posting here but did not find an article that gave me
the desired warm and fuzzy feeling. My hope was to find someone who
could say "I tried that and it did/didn't work!"
--
Jeff Barnett

  #7  
Old February 6th 17, 09:16 AM posted to alt.windows7.general
PeterC
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 98
Default Specific SSD + motherboard compatibility question

On Sun, 05 Feb 2017 15:03:03 -0500, Paul wrote:

As Char has basically said "it should work, except if it doesn't work".
The OP has no particular reason to fear this transition. As long
as a cloning software that modifies identifiers is used, you
might even be able to boot the new drive, while mistakenly leaving
the old drive connected. (I.e. Don't clone using dd.exe and
expect it to work seamlessly if both drives are seen at the
same time on the first boot.) But I'm too chicken to be doing that
test case over and over again. I would disconnect the 256GB
drive, before the very first boot of the 1TB drive. As I would
not want to waste the time cloning it all over again. Once the 1TB
drive is booted, you can reconnect the 256GB on later sessions,
and it should no longer matter.


I don't know about the last few versions of Easeus B/U or Partiion Manager,
but the last time I used PM to clone the HDD it said not to keep the
original disk connected when booting from the new one. Like you, I'm too
chicken to risk anything.
I gave up on Easeus because, for some reason that I couldn't find, it
stopped completing the cloning procedure on its reboot.
--
Peter.
The gods will stay away
whilst religions hold sway
  #8  
Old February 6th 17, 09:48 AM posted to alt.windows7.general
VanguardLH[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,881
Default Specific SSD + motherboard compatibility question

Jeff Barnett on 2017/02/06 wrote:

VanguardLH wrote on 2/5/2017 3:22 PM:
Jeff Barnett on 2017/02/05 wrote:

I'm think of updating our systems with larger SSD for C disks. The
relevant parts of the configuration would be:

OS: Win 7 Pro SP1 64 bits
Motherboard: Asus x-79 Deluxe
SSD: Samsung Pro 850 1TB

The current C disks are Samsung Pro 840 256GB. The OS and motherboard
are the same. Does anyone have knowledge that would indicated if the
proposed SSD upgrade will or will not work? I do not want to reinstall
Windows or a bunch of applications.

I have interacted with Asus and Samsung support in the past and found
both neither forthright or knowledgeable. My interactions might be a bad
sample of their performances but I would more trust someone with
specific experience and no (sales) ax to grind.

TIA


If you subtract all your data files from consumption in the file system
for drive C:, and even programs that don't have to install there (e.g.,
games), how much free space do you have? Seems a pricey solution to get
a huge SSD just so you can pollute it with files that do not have to
reside in the partition on that SSD.

While there are registry tricks for moving or redirecting the
userprofile (with its Documents and other data folders) to another
drive, that often results in problems. Just use your own folders on
another drive whether it be another SSD or the slower HDD (since it's
not likely you are operating a server where data file access speed is of
concern and you are likely opening those files only occasionally).

On a 250GB SSD, and after over a year of using it after installing all
software but keeping data files elsewhere, especially huge ones (videos,
VHD images), I still have 170 GB free, and that's with a couple video
games that I have not yet moved to the HDD (which would happen if the
SSD free space got too small). If you are doing video editing and need
a much larger disk to accomodate the huge files, get a 2nd SSD if you
really think it provides added speed for the processing. That old
Sabertooth mobo has another brown SATA-3 6Gbps port (the other 4 bloack
ones are just SATA-2 3Gbps) to let you add another fast SSD drive.


I have two 4TB HDD: one is used for most data files; the second is used
to hold backups of the SSD and first HDD - nothing on the second HDD is
backed up or used to create restore points so it can provides swap
storage, easy-to-reconstruct systems like MikTeX, browser caches, etc.
Every other weekly backup is rolled to an external disk.

There are two nearly identical machines he the first is used to play
games and the second supports PhotoShop. The monitors are obviously
different but the rest of the configurations are the same. The game
machine dedicates a bunch of its SSD to game and game-state storage. The
PhotoShop machine dedicates a bunch of its SSD to active image folders
and PhotoShop utility areas. About 10% of each SSD is "over
provisioning" used by Samsung software to increase the effectiveness of
trying to equal-use blocks of the SSD. Both machines have only about 40%
of the total SSD left and that percentage is shrinking a little each
month. MS crap on SYSWOW, etc. continues to grow.

At some point I will install a larger SSD and I only want to do it once
so 1TB seems a good size and the cost per GB is good. (Of course the EVO
line is even better price wise.) These machines were quite expensive
when we consed them a few years ago and would still be considered
speedy. I want them to last a few more years and I'm checking to see
what options are available.


That mobo has 6 SATA ports on the mobo: 2 SATA-3 and 4 SATA-2.
Presumably you have the existing SSD on one of the SATA-3 port and the
two HDDs on the SATA-2 ports.

That games should run okay from a drive other than the C: drive. I've
installed games on D: and other non-C: drive letters. I would think
Photoshop could be configured to use folders somewhere other than the C:
drive.

Samsung 850 EVO 1TB SSD drive: $330 ($0.33/GB)
Samsung 850 EVO 500GB SSD drive: $179 ($0.36/GB)
Samsung 850 EVO 250GB SSD drive: $100 ($0.40/GB)
(Prices from Newegg)

So the price per byte is close. The real difference is how much you end
up spending for capacity you may never consume. How many more years
will the rest of the hardware survive before it succumbs to the often
unwarranted replacement by the user? I used to plan my builds to
survive for about 6 years. Hardware development has been rather
stagnant so they lasted 8 years.

If you can afford the cost, building a long-lasting computer can be
expensive initially and later to upgrade. If you have an old computer
that your trying to pump more life into to extend its usability, you
probably don't want to spend too much. Have you determined how much
breathing room you need in drive capacity over whatever you expect to
gain in longevity of the old computer(s)?

  #9  
Old February 6th 17, 04:38 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
Paul[_32_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 11,873
Default Specific SSD + motherboard compatibility question

VanguardLH wrote:

Hardware development has been rather
stagnant so they lasted 8 years.


Their energies seem to concentrate on the "esoteric" :-)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanc...tor_Extensions

Paul
 




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