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secure erase question comment



 
 
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  #16  
Old October 3rd 18, 03:29 AM posted to alt.windows7.general
VanguardLH[_2_]
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Posts: 10,881
Default secure erase question comment

JBI wrote:

Basically, almost all of the WD drives have integrated USB right into
the drive, so there's no separation.


No, the USB-ported WDC drives are used in their portable drives. That's
why folks cracking open the WDC portable drive enclosures get surprised
when they find the HDD has a USB port instead of a SATA port. The
laptop, desktop, and other format factor WDC drives have the SATA
interface (and why you need to get a USB enclosure with the SATA-to-USB
logic board to convert between the protocols).

Having no separate PCB in the external enclosure for SATA-to-USB
conversion means the box can be smaller. The converter is on the
drive's own PCB (for example, http://tinyurl.com/y9ftce2a).

I don't keep a comprehensive list of WDC HDDs that have the embedded
SATA-to-USB converter hence the USB connector on the drive. A couple
a

WD WD5000BMVU-11A08S0
WD7500KMVV-11A27S2
WD6400KMVV-11BG7S0
WD3200BMVV-11DCLS0

I don't know if it's the "MVV" or the "-11" that signifies a USB
interface on the drive.

If the controller fails, the drive is worthless.


Pretty much the same result whether the HDD has a SATA or USB port. If
the drive's firmware fails, doesn't matter what port type it uses.
Maybe you meant the controller inside the external enclosure. If it has
one and it fails, yes, you can migrate the SATA-ported HDD to another
enclosure (with a PCB for SATA-to-USB conversion); however, if the SATA
controller on the HDD fails then migration is worthless.

Seagate, Toshiba and others
don't seem to do this as often; I was able to do secure erase on an
external Seagate USB 3 HDD. With the Toshiba, one secure erased;
another did not and, upon opening, its controller was integrated like
the WD.


I don't know if Parted Magic or other partition editors are using the
secure erase function in the HDD itself or if they are simply writing
new data of varying patterns to the HDD (which won't cover the MBR/UEFI
section or boot sector of each partition although for the latter they
could write new random bootstrap code into the boot sector of a
partition).

The secure erase built into an HDD is initiated by issuing a SATA
command. If the drive doesn't have a ATA interface (whether parallel or
serial), there's probably no way to request the drive to erase itself.

https://www.lifewire.com/what-is-secure-erase-2626004
https://ata.wiki.kernel.org/index.php/ATA_Secure_Erase

I guess they're getting cheap and trying to save costs by integrating
controller into the HDD. Bad news if the controller goes down.


More likely they are trying to save on space. With a USB converter
built into the HDD's own PCB, there is no need for a separate
SATA-to-USB converter PCB inside the external enclosure. That could,
for example, leave space in a larger case to add other components, like
a fan to cool the HDD, or to just allow using a case that is just a few
millimeters larger than the drive itself. Enclosures with a SATA-to-USB
converter PCB are larger hence not so portable; i.e., they often do not
fit inside your shirt pocket. USB built into the HDD means a smaller
case and more portable (fits into smaller pockets).
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  #17  
Old October 3rd 18, 03:52 AM posted to alt.windows7.general
Paul[_32_]
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Posts: 11,873
Default secure erase question comment

Char Jackson wrote:
On Tue, 2 Oct 2018 18:56:15 -0400, JBI wrote:

On 10/02/2018 06:23 PM, Char Jackson wrote:
On Tue, 2 Oct 2018 16:51:32 -0400, JBI wrote:

On 10/02/2018 03:17 PM, Char Jackson wrote:
On Tue, 2 Oct 2018 07:30:17 -0400, JBI wrote:

It has been interesting that just two of the three USB 3 hard drives
would show up in Linux Parted Magic and I disassembled them to find out
why. For the two where Parted Magic allowed secure erase to be
initiated, they appear to be SATA drives with a USB 3 interface plugged
into the SATA.
On the other, which is a Western Digital, there doesn't
appear to be any SATA to USB adapter and the USB 3 seems integrated into
the drive.
What's the exact model number of the Western Digital product, and what's
the model number of the WD drive that you found inside? I'd like to do
my best to avoid those items.

There's a Youtube on it. snip
OK, thanks. I was hoping your WD drive had a model name or number on it.

Do you have a link to the Youtube video?


Here's a link. I didn't view this originally, but it shows a guy trying
to remove one WD drive and plug another into the USB 3 circuitry from
the case... which he quickly discovers that with the WD, this will be
impossible:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7eFkjx9oWfI


Thanks. The good news is that that's a 2.5" drive, so there's zero
chance that I would be buying that type of product.


These are 15mm high 2.5" drives (non-standard) with
up to 5TB capacity. Some of them are impressive for
the size. They're too high to fit in a laptop.

Paul
  #18  
Old October 4th 18, 02:15 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
JBI
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 76
Default secure erase question comment CORRECTION

On 10/02/2018 07:19 PM, JBI wrote:
On 10/02/2018 06:56 PM, JBI wrote:
On 10/02/2018 06:23 PM, Char Jackson wrote:
On Tue, 2 Oct 2018 16:51:32 -0400, JBI wrote:

On 10/02/2018 03:17 PM, Char Jackson wrote:
On Tue, 2 Oct 2018 07:30:17 -0400, JBI wrote:

It has been interesting that just two of the three USB 3 hard drives
would show up in Linux Parted Magic and I disassembled them to
find out
why.Â* For the two where Parted Magic allowed secure erase to be
initiated, they appear to be SATA drives with a USB 3 interface
plugged
into the SATA.

On the other, which is a Western Digital, there doesn't
appear to be any SATA to USB adapter and the USB 3 seems
integrated into
the drive.

What's the exact model number of the Western Digital product, and
what's
the model number of the WD drive that you found inside? I'd like to do
my best to avoid those items.


There's a Youtube on it. snip

OK, thanks. I was hoping your WD drive had a model name or number on it.

Do you have a link to the Youtube video?



Here's a link.Â* I didn't view this originally, but it shows a guy
trying to remove one WD drive and plug another into the USB 3
circuitry from the case... which he quickly discovers that with the
WD, this will be impossible:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7eFkjx9oWfI

This is what is hampering my efforts to use secure erase with these
type drives.Â* On ones where there is an actual SATA to USB 3 adapter,
I can do it, but not if it's integrated like the one in the video.
I'm waiting to hear back from the software firm that sells the BC
Total WipeOut software.Â* In my tests, it apparently did a total secure
erase on the WD drive in question, and showed it in the log, but I
want to absolutely confirm this with them that it did secure and not
just a standard overwrite with 0's.


I just heard back from Jetico, the firm making BC Total WipeOut.Â* They
confirm that since the log showed no errors and I did in fact specify
secure erase plus HPO/DCO erase/ reset, that all erasures were performed
on the drive as indicated.... good news for difficult drives like the WD
and the fact that it is a USB 3 external HD.Â* The trial has 21 days and
I only have the 1 pass zeroing option, but I will have done at least the
7 pass erases with DBAN first.Â* I think this is about as good as I'm
going to get without either physically destroying the drives and/or
investing $50 in the full version of the BC software.


I have a correction: the Jetico software, BC Total WipeOut, will NOT
delete/ reset/ overwrite the HPA/DCO partitions for USB connected HDD.
I heard back from them today with the correction. My response was that
they should make this fact known while using the software because as it
currently is, there's no indication either way... could easily give the
false impression that the wipes were done. Anyway, for me, in light of
this, definitely not worth the cost since much freeware out there
basically does the same thing, even DBAN, for USB attached drives.

 




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