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Windows 7 only support partial smart-display of Unicode characters?



 
 
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  #1  
Old July 28th 18, 03:44 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
JJ[_11_]
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Posts: 744
Default Windows 7 only support partial smart-display of Unicode characters?

I just found out that Windows 7 can only smart-display Unicode characters
partially. This problem doesn't occur on Windows 8 and newer.

I don't know the exact term, but what I meant about smart-displaying Unicode
characters is that no matter which font I use for the GUI (configured from
the "Window Color and Appearance" Control Panel), if the chosen font doesn't
have the needed font glyphs, Windows will automatically use other fonts
which have them.

For example, my GUI font is set to "Microsoft Sans Serif". That font doesn't
have any glyph for Chinese/Japanese/Korean (CJK) characters. Yet, Windows
Explorer can properly display CJK characters which are on file/folder names.

For example, this file name displays the Chinese character properly (create
a new file and rename it to below name):

char實5BE6.txt

However, for characters within the Miscellaneous Symbols and Pictographs
Unicode block (character 1F300-1F5FF). Below file name has a Fire character
(code point 1F525), but it's displayed as a square in Windows 7, but fine on
Windows 8+:

charí*½í´¥1F525.txt

Depending on your Usenet client and system, the above Fire character may
also be displayed as a square. But the character's code will still be intact
if copied into clipboard then paste it elsewhere.

I've already tried installing all of the Windows 8 fonts into my Windows 7.
Replacing any existing ones. But the character is still displayed as a
square. Deleting the FNTCACHE.DAT and rebooting also doesn't help.

In a clean installation of Windows 7, the only font which has the Fire
character glyph is the "Segoe UI Symbol" font. But even if I change my GUI
font to "Segoe UI Symbol", the character is still displayed as a square.

So, is there a way to work around this problem?
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  #2  
Old July 28th 18, 04:20 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
Mayayana
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Posts: 6,438
Default Windows 7 only support partial smart-display of Unicode characters?

"JJ" wrote

|I just found out that Windows 7 can only smart-display Unicode characters
| partially. This problem doesn't occur on Windows 8 and newer.
|
| I don't know the exact term, but what I meant about smart-displaying
Unicode
| characters is that no matter which font I use for the GUI (configured from
| the "Window Color and Appearance" Control Panel), if the chosen font
doesn't
| have the needed font glyphs, Windows will automatically use other fonts
| which have them.
|
| For example, my GUI font is set to "Microsoft Sans Serif". That font
doesn't
| have any glyph for Chinese/Japanese/Korean (CJK) characters. Yet, Windows
| Explorer can properly display CJK characters which are on file/folder
names.
|
| For example, this file name displays the Chinese character properly
(create
| a new file and rename it to below name):
|
| char?5BE6.txt
|
| However, for characters within the Miscellaneous Symbols and Pictographs
| Unicode block (character 1F300-1F5FF). Below file name has a Fire
character
| (code point 1F525), but it's displayed as a square in Windows 7, but fine
on
| Windows 8+:
|
| char??1F525.txt
|
A curious situation. I'm not sure, but I wonder if it's
a UTF-16/UTF-32 mixup. 1F525 is only possible as a
32-bit character code. Your character above comes
through to me as two characters in the "surrogates"
range of UTF-16:

ED A0 BD (D83D)
ED B4 A5 (DD25)

Windows supports those, even in file names, but I
don't know what real purpose they can serve:

https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/win...ary-characters

I don't know what supports UTF-32. I also don't
know how 1F525 came through as what I got.


  #3  
Old July 29th 18, 11:21 AM posted to alt.windows7.general
RR[_2_]
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Posts: 2
Default Windows 7 only support partial smart-display of Unicode characters?

JJ wrote:

I just found out that Windows 7 can only smart-display Unicode characters
partially. This problem doesn't occur on Windows 8 and newer.

I don't know the exact term, but what I meant about smart-displaying Unicode
characters is that no matter which font I use for the GUI (configured from
the "Window Color and Appearance" Control Panel), if the chosen font doesn't
have the needed font glyphs, Windows will automatically use other fonts
which have them.

For example, my GUI font is set to "Microsoft Sans Serif". That font doesn't
have any glyph for Chinese/Japanese/Korean (CJK) characters. Yet, Windows
Explorer can properly display CJK characters which are on file/folder names.

For example, this file name displays the Chinese character properly (create
a new file and rename it to below name):

char實5BE6.txt

However, for characters within the Miscellaneous Symbols and Pictographs
Unicode block (character 1F300-1F5FF). Below file name has a Fire character
(code point 1F525), but it's displayed as a square in Windows 7, but fine on
Windows 8+:

char������1F525.txt

Depending on your Usenet client and system, the above Fire character may
also be displayed as a square. But the character's code will still be intact
if copied into clipboard then paste it elsewhere.

I've already tried installing all of the Windows 8 fonts into my Windows 7.
Replacing any existing ones. But the character is still displayed as a
square. Deleting the FNTCACHE.DAT and rebooting also doesn't help.

In a clean installation of Windows 7, the only font which has the Fire
character glyph is the "Segoe UI Symbol" font. But even if I change my GUI
font to "Segoe UI Symbol", the character is still displayed as a square.

So, is there a way to work around this problem?



You might (or might not) be able to fix the display problem by adjusting
the registry setting described under "Font Linking" in this Microsoft
document. Note the caution, and the need to log off and on again after
making the change.

https://docs.microsoft.com/en-gb/globalization/input/font-technology

This presumes the program uses "Font Linking" rather than another font
fallback procedure, and that the program uses the registry settings for
font linking rather than its own settings.

You may still have a problem when sending messages. Other people may not
be able to being able to see characters such as code point 1F525 🔥 in
messages you send. Where your message should have shown code point 1F525
🔥, it showed an invalid UTF-8 sequence ������ instead.

* Correct UTF-8 encoding for code point 1F525 is four bytes: F0 9F 94 A5.
* Your newsreader encoded code point 1F525 as six bytes: ED A0 BD ED B4 A5

This is a common problem with older programs which were never designed
to handle supplementary plane characters (code points 10000 and up,
which do not fit into 16 bits).

  #4  
Old July 29th 18, 01:51 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
JJ[_11_]
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Posts: 744
Default Windows 7 only support partial smart-display of Unicode characters?

On Sat, 28 Jul 2018 11:20:26 -0400, Mayayana wrote:
A curious situation. I'm not sure, but I wonder if it's
a UTF-16/UTF-32 mixup. 1F525 is only possible as a
32-bit character code. Your character above comes
through to me as two characters in the "surrogates"
range of UTF-16:

ED A0 BD (D83D)
ED B4 A5 (DD25)

Windows supports those, even in file names, but I
don't know what real purpose they can serve:

https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/win...ary-characters

I don't know what supports UTF-32. I also don't
know how 1F525 came through as what I got.


Yes, the (32-bit) Fire character actually consists of two characters to make
up the 1F525 code point.
  #5  
Old July 29th 18, 02:19 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
JJ[_11_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 744
Default Windows 7 only support partial smart-display of Unicode characters?

On Sun, 29 Jul 2018 10:21:20 -0000, RR wrote:

You might (or might not) be able to fix the display problem by adjusting
the registry setting described under "Font Linking" in this Microsoft
document. Note the caution, and the need to log off and on again after
making the change.

https://docs.microsoft.com/en-gb/globalization/input/font-technology

This presumes the program uses "Font Linking" rather than another font
fallback procedure, and that the program uses the registry settings for
font linking rather than its own settings.


I've just tried it, but I can't manage to get it to work. Since my GUI font
is set to "Microsoft Sans Serif", I appended "seguisym.ttf" onto that font's
SystemLink entry.

FYI, I've already used Windows 10 fonts in my Windows 7. And I've also tried
to use the Windows 10 FontLink entries. But it's still the same.

There's the "StaticCache.dat" file in the "Windows\Fonts" folder which I'm
suspicious of. I don't know if it's related to this problem, but I can't
find any explanation about it. FYI, Windows 10 version of the file is
18.3MB, while the Windows 7 version is only 9.1MB. I'm planning to use the
one from Windows 10, but the file is in use by the system, and I haven't had
the right time for a reboot yet. Don't know if it'll work. Fingers crossed.

You may still have a problem when sending messages. Other people may not
be able to being able to see characters such as code point 1F525 í*½í´¥ in
messages you send. Where your message should have shown code point 1F525
í*½í´¥, it showed an invalid UTF-8 sequence ������ instead.

* Correct UTF-8 encoding for code point 1F525 is four bytes: F0 9F 94 A5.
* Your newsreader encoded code point 1F525 as six bytes: ED A0 BD ED B4 A5

This is a common problem with older programs which were never designed
to handle supplementary plane characters (code points 10000 and up,
which do not fit into 16 bits).


Oh, you're right. It seems that my Usenet client sees the Fire character as
two codepoints rather than one. i.e. it doesn't seem to support 32-bit
codepoint.
  #6  
Old July 29th 18, 03:56 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
Mayayana
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,438
Default Windows 7 only support partial smart-display of Unicode characters?

"JJ" wrote

| Oh, you're right. It seems that my Usenet client sees the Fire character
as
| two codepoints rather than one. i.e. it doesn't seem to support 32-bit
| codepoint.

It's seeing it as a UTF-16 surrogate pair and
translating each word into UTF-8. Pretty impressive.
I wonder how it knows to do that. Since a newsreader
will be expecting ANSI or UTF-8, I would expect it
to render UTF-8 if it's valid or ANSI if it's not. That
makes me curious how you sent it. Did you send it
as an already reduced 16-bit surrogate pair, or was
it translated in transit to a 16-bit surrogate pair?

What a mess these different systems are!

All of which makes me wonder what value this has
to you. The chance of anyone getting your text
accurately is very slim, so why use it? Even in HTML,
where this stuff is valid, you're playing with fire, so
to speak.
I tried putting 🔥 into a webpage. IE6
doesn't render it. Pale Moon 24, from 2014, doesn't
render it. Only Firefox 52 can render it. I wouldn't
even use such a thing in a webpage, much less in
a text file.


  #7  
Old July 30th 18, 01:24 AM posted to alt.windows7.general
Mark Lloyd[_2_]
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Posts: 1,756
Default Windows 7 only support partial smart-display of Unicodecharacters?

On 07/29/2018 09:56 AM, Mayayana wrote:

[snip]

I tried putting 🔥 into a webpage. IE6
doesn't render it. Pale Moon 24, from 2014, doesn't
render it. Only Firefox 52 can render it. I wouldn't
even use such a thing in a webpage, much less in
a text file.


I set up a 'fire' webpage too, and tried it with several browsers:

on Win 7:

IE 11: proper shape but black instead of multicolor
IE 9: square
Firefox 61: OK

on Win 10:

IE 11: (same as on 7)
Firefox 61: OK
Edge: OK except with black border

on Win XP:

IE 5, 6, 8: square
IE 4: &x1F525;
Firefox 52: OK

on Win 2000:

Firefox 12: square with '01F' and '525' in it

on Mac:

Firefox 61: OK
Safari 11: OK

on Linux:

Firefox 61: OK
Chromium 67: black shape
Opera 54: black shape

--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us/

"The unspiritual man does not receive the gifts of the Spirit of God,
for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because
they are spiritually discerned." Paul, 1 Corinthians 2:14
  #8  
Old July 30th 18, 03:25 AM posted to alt.windows7.general
Mayayana
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Posts: 6,438
Default Windows 7 only support partial smart-display of Unicode characters?

"Mark Lloyd" wrote

| I set up a 'fire' webpage too, and tried it with several browsers:
|
Wow. Very thorough test. So I guess the emojis
are packaged with browsers. Mozilla does have
EmojiOneMozilla.ttf in the program folder /fonts,
but I don't have a way to view the characters in it.


  #9  
Old July 30th 18, 07:14 AM posted to alt.windows7.general
Monty
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Posts: 598
Default Windows 7 only support partial smart-display of Unicode characters?

On Sun, 29 Jul 2018 22:25:10 -0400, "Mayayana"
wrote:

"Mark Lloyd" wrote

| I set up a 'fire' webpage too, and tried it with several browsers:
|
Wow. Very thorough test. So I guess the emojis
are packaged with browsers. Mozilla does have
EmojiOneMozilla.ttf in the program folder /fonts,
but I don't have a way to view the characters in it.


I can display the characters by using Everything search engine.

1. Start "Everything" and search for emoji

2. Click (or double click) on any .ttf file with "emoji" in the name

3. All the characters are displayed in the 4th and 5th lines from the
top of the display. A sample of the characters are also displayed
in various font sizes following the 4th and 5th lines.


  #10  
Old July 30th 18, 12:19 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
Mayayana
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Posts: 6,438
Default Windows 7 only support partial smart-display of Unicode characters?

"Monty" wrote

|
| I can display the characters by using Everything search engine.
|

But what are you viewing them in? I don't
have any trouble finding the file. I just don't
have a program that displays the characters.
I tried a couple of font viewers, but they don't
know what to do with it.

Frankly I don't really care about emojis. I'll
probably never have a use for them and they
don't work dependably, anyway. It's a silly
hack that only works on webpages and only
under the right conditions. But I was curious
whether that file was the source for the
Firefox display.



  #11  
Old July 30th 18, 12:22 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
Paul[_32_]
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Posts: 11,873
Default Windows 7 only support partial smart-display of Unicode characters?

Mayayana wrote:
"Mark Lloyd" wrote

| I set up a 'fire' webpage too, and tried it with several browsers:
|
Wow. Very thorough test. So I guess the emojis
are packaged with browsers. Mozilla does have
EmojiOneMozilla.ttf in the program folder /fonts,
but I don't have a way to view the characters in it.


That font may be created with the intention of
being locked to the application program. It displays
in FontForge, but you can't access glyphs or anything.
Only a tiny tiny icon in B&W shows "fire". I couldn't
get any nicer presentation to appear.

Paul

  #12  
Old July 30th 18, 01:18 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
Monty
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Posts: 598
Default Windows 7 only support partial smart-display of Unicode characters?

On Mon, 30 Jul 2018 07:19:05 -0400, "Mayayana"
wrote:

"Monty" wrote

|
| I can display the characters by using Everything search engine.
|

But what are you viewing them in?


I am using Windows Font Viewer in Windows 10.

I see the same image in Windows 7 but this is on my neighbor's PC.

I located an old copy of Font Expert and installed that on my PC.
This showed a bit more detail about the font.

I will post some images tomorrow to show you what I see with both
viewers.


I don't
have any trouble finding the file. I just don't
have a program that displays the characters.
I tried a couple of font viewers, but they don't
know what to do with it.

Frankly I don't really care about emojis. I'll
probably never have a use for them and they
don't work dependably, anyway. It's a silly
hack that only works on webpages and only
under the right conditions. But I was curious
whether that file was the source for the
Firefox display.


  #13  
Old July 30th 18, 02:24 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
J. P. Gilliver (John)[_4_]
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Posts: 2,679
Default Windows 7 only support partial smart-display of Unicode characters?

In message , Mayayana
writes:
"Monty" wrote

|
| I can display the characters by using Everything search engine.
|

But what are you viewing them in? I don't
have any trouble finding the file. I just don't
have a program that displays the characters.
I tried a couple of font viewers, but they don't
know what to do with it.


I did what he said - well, used everything to find ttf files, I don't
have the one with emoji in the name - and to my surprise saw the font
I'd double-clicked on; I don't think I've installed any font viewers on
this machine, so I presume it must be one built into Windows (7-32).
Supported by the fact that the title bar shows only the font name, no
viewer name, and the only controls are two buttons "Print" and
"\/ Install" (where \/ is the requires-privilege symbol).


Frankly I don't really care about emojis. I'll
probably never have a use for them and they
don't work dependably, anyway. It's a silly
hack that only works on webpages and only
under the right conditions. But I was curious
whether that file was the source for the
Firefox display.

I don't think I'd ever use them, though I don't have any hatred for them
(same as the rest of social media; although I don't use it [in the
modern sense of "social media"], I don't have any antagonism to those
who do. Except where they assume that I do too, as they increasingly do
on the media here).


--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

the plural of 'anecdote' is not 'evidence'. Professor Edzart Ernst, prudential
magazine, AUTUMN 2006, p. 13.
  #14  
Old July 30th 18, 02:30 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
Mayayana
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Posts: 6,438
Default Windows 7 only support partial smart-display of Unicode characters?

"Monty" wrote

| I am using Windows Font Viewer in Windows 10.
|
| I see the same image in Windows 7 but this is on my neighbor's PC.
|

I have Font Viewer on XP but it doesn't seem to work.
I actually never noticed that before. I guess if I want
to check out a font I open Paint Shop Pro or another
program that handles them. But, like IrfanView, that
won't show anything in the Mozilla font.



  #15  
Old July 30th 18, 02:33 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
JJ[_11_]
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Posts: 744
Default Windows 7 only support partial smart-display of Unicode characters?

On Mon, 30 Jul 2018 16:14:51 +1000, Monty wrote:

I can display the characters by using Everything search engine.

1. Start "Everything" and search for emoji

2. Click (or double click) on any .ttf file with "emoji" in the name

3. All the characters are displayed in the 4th and 5th lines from the
top of the display. A sample of the characters are also displayed
in various font sizes following the 4th and 5th lines.


Is that Everything's font file viewer? Or Windows'?

Cause it doesn't work in my Window 7.

https://i.imgur.com/HOcGJZ9.png

And not even Windows 10.

https://i.imgur.com/5XaFVP9.png
 




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