Good Search Engine

On 10/27/18 1:32 PM, Wolf K wrote:
On 2018-10-27 12:40, Mark Lloyd wrote:
On 10/26/18 12:31 PM, Char Jackson wrote:

[snip]

Years ago, there used to be a game we'd play where people would try to
find a search term that would result in exactly one hit. I wonder if
that's even possible these days.

I'm not sure if I've ever seen a search return ONE hit. It wound be
nice to get at least one relevant hit on the first page.

Oh, but you do! I mean, you're searching because you want to buy
something, right?

Right?

Sometimes. Often it's computer questions that have nothing to do with
buying.

Anyway, what would "buying something" have to do with receiving only one
search result? For example, searching Google for "40-inch Vizio TV"
returns About 3,530,000 results.

Hah!

I search for "theater" and get a bunch of hits. ALL in the first few
pages are irrelevant. I realize I want a theater in Dallas, so I
change the search to "theater dallas" and instead of the obvious, it
not gives EVEN MORE irrelevant hits, including some Dallas ones that
have nothing to do with theaters.

Search for "theaters in Dallas".

Them li'l words are important. Really!

Sometimes that works. Other times is returns EVEN MORE irrelevant stuff.

"theaters Dallas " means "... theaters or Dallas or both".Â* Really!


Adding words is the normal way to restrict something. Why do search
engines do it differently?

Because unless told otherwise, the search engine sees a list of words "A
B C" as "Find A or B or C". A hit containing just one of those words is
correct.

Of course I KNOW that. I was wondering why they'd make it different than
the way people normally use words. That answer was a restatement rather
than an answer.

--
58 days until the winter celebration (Tue Dec 25, 2018 12:00:00 AM for 1
day).

Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us/

"I refuse to be labeled immoral merely because I am godless." [Peter
Walker on alt.atheism]

Besides the fact this regular troll has no idea what it's talking
about, it has been crossposting spam all over USENET. Check out the
Microsoft flight simulation group to see what I'm talking about, and
go from there.

--
"Mr. Man-wai Chang" toylet.toylet gmail.com wrote:

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Newsgroups: alt.windows7.general,alt.comp.freeware,alt.comp.os .windows-10
Subject: Google Search Operators: The Complete List (42 Advanced Operators)
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The following could be your starting point:

Google Search Operators: The Complete List (42 Advanced Operators)
https://ahrefs.com/blog/google-advan...rch-operators/

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In message , Wolf K
writes:
On 2018-10-28 13:15, Mark Lloyd wrote:
[]
Of course I KNOW that. I was wondering why they'd make it different
than the way people normally use words.
Because we don't actually talk in search strings. I mean, when did you
last ask another human "theaters Dallas?" when you wanted information
about the theaters in Dallas?

Good point ...

So the designers of search algorithms have to decide on some consistent
way of parsing a string of nouns or other terms. They could have
decided that the missing conjunction was "and", which would merely
cause different problems. [1]

.... though I think it would be less of a problem. I think most people
would at least _wish_ that search engines defaulted to "and".

That answer was a restatement rather
than an answer.

I don't think so. Even in a human conversation, adding words is not
necessarily adding qualifiers. You may just be adding examples, which
usually expands the scope of the sentence.

Yes, but in human conversation, there'd usually be "such as", "like", or
similar added - they wouldn't just repeat the search string with
examples tacked on the end. (Now, if search engines allowed you to
_refine the *results*_ from a previous search [i. e. _without_ having to
include the initial search terms again], _that_'d be good!)

To put it another way: the search string " A B C" is ambiguous.

Your plaintive plea translates into "Why can't a computer be more like
human?"

It isn't that plaintive these days - AI is coming on in leaps and
bounds, so I don't think it's that unreasonable for Mark to think a
closer match (in "thought processes") might come along soon.

Best,

[1] Footnote: In English, in a two-noun phrase the first noun is the
qualifier: "sweat sock" is a type of sock. Thus "theaters Dallas" would
be a type of Dallas.....

Agreed. If the search engines are bright enough, "Dallas theatres" might
be better, and similar to "theatres in Dallas". Shouldn't be beyond them
to recognise placenames. (Though that's not foolproof of course -
consider "Denver boot", "Newcastle disease". [Parking clamp and poultry
illness respectively.] English is fun, and difficult - for foreigners
too, not just computers [and for English-speakers too often enough]!)
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Nunc Tutus Exitus Computarus (It is now safe to turn off your computer).

In message , John Doe
writes:
Besides the fact this regular troll has no idea what it's talking
about, it has been crossposting spam all over USENET. Check out the
Microsoft flight simulation group to see what I'm talking about, and
go from there.

I found the article he posted a link to extremely relevant to the
current thread subject.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Nunc Tutus Exitus Computarus (It is now safe to turn off your computer).

On 10/29/2018 1:01 AM, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:

In the part of my post you haven't quoted. I did say I used the advanced
search page of Google.

I've seen your next post (the one with a 42 in it) - thanks, just going
to look at that now.

Good hunting!

--
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/( _ )\ May the Force and farces be with you!
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On 10/29/2018 2:15 AM, John Doe wrote:
Besides the fact this regular troll has no idea what it's talking
about, it has been crossposting spam all over USENET. Check out the
Microsoft flight simulation group to see what I'm talking about, and
go from there.


He just wants to seek some advice and suggestions, and hence the
cross-posting.

--
@~@ Remain silent! Drink, Blink, Stretch! Live long and prosper!!
/ v \ Simplicity is Beauty!
/( _ )\ May the Force and farces be with you!
^ ^ (x86_64 Ubuntu 9.10) Linux 2.6.39.3
ä¸�借貸! ä¸�è©�騙! ä¸�è³*錢! ä¸�æ�´äº¤! ä¸�打交! ä¸�打劫! ä¸�自殺! ä¸�求神! 請考慮綜æ�´
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On Sun, 28 Oct 2018 18:26:46 +0000, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
wrote:


Agreed. If the search engines are bright enough, "Dallas theatres" might
be better, and similar to "theatres in Dallas". Shouldn't be beyond them
to recognise placenames. (Though that's not foolproof of course -
consider "Denver boot", "Newcastle disease". [Parking clamp and poultry
illness respectively.] English is fun, and difficult - for foreigners
too, not just computers [and for English-speakers too often enough]!)


Forgive my slight digression, but talking about English, one of my
favorite stories is about Harriet, who was away at University in a
foreign country. A message sent to her parents from someone at the
school started out as "Harriet suspended for minor offenses, but it
was first translated into the language of the country the school was
in, then back into English. The message her parents received was
"Harriet hanged for juvenile crimes."

In message , Ken Blake
writes:
On Sun, 28 Oct 2018 18:26:46 +0000, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
wrote:
[]
to recognise placenames. (Though that's not foolproof of course -
consider "Denver boot", "Newcastle disease". [Parking clamp and poultry
illness respectively.] English is fun, and difficult - for foreigners
too, not just computers [and for English-speakers too often enough]!)


Forgive my slight digression, but talking about English, one of my
favorite stories is about Harriet, who was away at University in a
foreign country. A message sent to her parents from someone at the
school started out as "Harriet suspended for minor offenses, but it
was first translated into the language of the country the school was
in, then back into English. The message her parents received was
"Harriet hanged for juvenile crimes."

Chuckle! Probably apocryphal, but ranks alongside the Water Sheep, and
Norman Wisdom.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

One of my tricks as an armchair futurist is to "predict" things that are
already happening and watch people tell me it will never happen.
Scott Adams, 2015-3-9

On 28/10/2018 21:25, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:

Forgive my slight digression, but talking about English, one of my
favorite stories is about Harriet, who was away at University in a
foreign country. A message sent to her parents from someone at the
school started out as "Harriet suspended for minor offenses, but it
was first translated into the language of the country the school was
in, then back into English. The message her parents received was
"Harriet hanged for juvenile crimes."

Chuckle! Probably apocryphal, but ranks alongside the Water Sheep, and
Norman Wisdom.

And "send three and fourpence, am going to dance"!

BTW 'water sheep' for 'hydraulic ram' is one of my favourite machine
mis-translations.

In message , Java Jive
writes:
On 28/10/2018 21:25, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:

Forgive my slight digression, but talking about English, one of my
favorite stories is about Harriet, who was away at University in a
foreign country. A message sent to her parents from someone at the
school started out as "Harriet suspended for minor offenses, but it
was first translated into the language of the country the school was
in, then back into English. The message her parents received was
"Harriet hanged for juvenile crimes."
Chuckle! Probably apocryphal, but ranks alongside the Water Sheep,
and Norman Wisdom.

And "send three and fourpence, am going to dance"!

"to a dance", surely.

BTW 'water sheep' for 'hydraulic ram' is one of my favourite machine
mis-translations.

Was it allegedly machine (mis)translation? I thought it was EC double
translation, like your Harriet one.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

If you help someone when they're in trouble, they will remember you when
they're in trouble again.

On Sat, 27 Oct 2018 14:32:10 -0400, Wolf K wrote:

On 2018-10-27 12:40, Mark Lloyd wrote:
On 10/26/18 12:31 PM, Char Jackson wrote:

[snip]

Years ago, there used to be a game we'd play where people would try to
find a search term that would result in exactly one hit. I wonder if
that's even possible these days.

I'm not sure if I've ever seen a search return ONE hit. It wound be nice
to get at least one relevant hit on the first page.

Oh, but you do! I mean, you're searching because you want to buy
something, right?

Right?

Hah!

I search for "theater" and get a bunch of hits. ALL in the first few
pages are irrelevant. I realize I want a theater in Dallas, so I change
the search to "theater dallas" and instead of the obvious, it not gives
EVEN MORE irrelevant hits, including some Dallas ones that have nothing
to do with theaters.

Search for "theaters in Dallas".

Them li'l words are important. Really!

"theaters Dallas " means "... theaters or Dallas or both". Really!

Agreed, and if I were *in* Dallas when I'm doing the search, I would
replace "Dallas" with "near me". "near me" works for almost everything,
from movie theaters to restaurants to Home Depot stores to you name it.

If I say, "movie theaters near me", Google replies with, "Here are some
listings of "movie theaters near me" within 8 miles". That's much more
useful than showing me all of the movie theaters within the DFW metro.

--

Char Jackson

On Sun, 28 Oct 2018 23:25:19 +0800, "Mr. Man-wai Chang"
wrote:

On 10/28/2018 6:27 PM, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
Thanks: useful tip. Presumably it's interpreted as "all the words
_somewhere_ on the page". Do you know of a way of specifying that they
should be within x words of each other? (I remember encountering such
searches - I think it might have been back in my UNIX/EMACS days - but I
don't _think_ I've seen anything similar in the modern search engine
context.)

You have to look at the advanced options of Google Search. Just google
"google search advanced".

Bear in mind that most users don't do those "stunts".

Be careful not to enter the single search term, "google", into a Google
search. That's been known to cause Google's servers to enter a loop that
goes ever deeper and deeper, eventually collapsing upon itself like a
black hole. Fortunately, the whole thing reboots without any permanent
damage done.

--

Char Jackson

On Sun, 28 Oct 2018 10:21:11 +0000, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
wrote:

In message , Char Jackson
writes:
[]
Years ago, there used to be a game we'd play where people would try to
find a search term that would result in exactly one hit. I wonder if
that's even possible these days.

I think it was called Googlewhacking.

Thanks, I didn't know it had a name. You're exactly right.

https://www.google.com/search?q=Googlewhacking

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Googlewhack
[quote]A Googlewhack is a contest for finding a Google search query
consisting of exactly two words without quotation marks that returns
exactly one hit. A Googlewhack must consist of two actual words found in
a dictionary. A Googlewhack is considered legitimate if both of the
searched-for words appear in the result page. For example, typing an
asterisk (*) into the Google Search Bar turns up no results.

Published googlewhacks are short-lived, since when published to a web
site, the new number of hits will become at least two, one to the
original hit found, and one to the publishing site.[unquote]


The way my friends and I used to play it was like this: everyone takes a
turn. When it's your turn, if you fail you take a drink. If you're
successful, everyone else takes a drink.

What generally happened was that everyone took a drink on every turn,
just because.

--

Char Jackson

On 28/10/2018 22:28, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
In message , Java Jive
writes:
On 28/10/2018 21:25, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:

Forgive my slight digression, but talking about English, one of my
favorite stories is about Harriet, who was away at University in a
foreign country. A message sent to her parents from someone at the
school started out as "Harriet suspended for minor offenses, but it
was first translated into the language of the country the school was
in, then back into English. The message her parents received was
"Harriet hanged for juvenile crimes."
Â*Chuckle! Probably apocryphal, but ranks alongside the Water Sheep,
andÂ* Norman Wisdom.

And "send three and fourpence, am going to dance"!

"to a dance", surely.

Yes, typo.

BTW 'water sheep' for 'hydraulic ram' is one of my favourite machine
mis-translations.

Was it allegedly machine (mis)translation? I thought it was EC double
translation,

Maybe, ISTR it came from the EU at any rate, because, having so many
languages to work in, they rely heavily on machine translation.

like your Harriet one.

Not mine, Ken Blake's

On 10/29/2018 8:31 AM, Char Jackson wrote:
Be careful not to enter the single search term, "google", into a Google
search. That's been known to cause Google's servers to enter a loop that
goes ever deeper and deeper, eventually collapsing upon itself like a
black hole. Fortunately, the whole thing reboots without any permanent
damage done.


I think Google could catch this kind of obvious errors (called recursive
loop)?

--
@~@ Remain silent! Drink, Blink, Stretch! Live long and prosper!!
/ v \ Simplicity is Beauty!
/( _ )\ May the Force and farces be with you!
^ ^ (x86_64 Ubuntu 9.10) Linux 2.6.39.3
ä¸�借貸! ä¸�è©�騙! ä¸�è³*錢! ä¸�æ�´äº¤! ä¸�打交! ä¸�打劫! ä¸�自殺! ä¸�求神! 請考慮綜æ�´
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