Mystery Of The "Registry Clean'.

J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
In message , Paul
writes:
[]
Don't use really ancient restore points. Use one that is only
a few days old. System Restore does more than it needs
to, on WinXP, and you can lose data files (if they're
stored outside My Documents).

I've seen this statement (or ones very like it) before. So system
restore actually deletes files? Is that only from certain locations on
drive C, or what? When you say data files, I presume you mean ones
created by applications, such as documents, pictures, sound, video, or
whatever the application is there to handle.

System Restore monitors executables and the like (incl DLLs), no matter
where they are stored (except in My Documents, as I recall). So if you
saved a program file somewhere, and then do a System Restore prior to the
time you saved it, it will indeed be removed after the restore operation.
Document type files are not monitored, and won't be affected (which makes
sense -).

There was a good and detailed Microsoft web page somewhere listing what
types of files are monitored and what locations are NOT monitored (such as
My Documents).

This is a newer link, but it is not as detailed as the old one used to be:
http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/w...restore-change

And this one which details which file types are monitored:
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/libr...=vs.85%29.aspx

J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
In message , Bill in Co
writes:
[]
I've tested System Restore on a few occasions, and it (generally) has
done
pretty well, surprisingly. In some cases, some app or two needs to be
reinstalled, but that's no biggie, but I prefer not relying on it.

I don't think I've had to use it on my own machine, but have helped
others use it, and it does as yo say often work (-:.

But in the case of the OP, he may not have a better choice.

I prefer using ERUNT "when the need arises", but ERUNT is only a subset
of what System Restore can do (which is sometimes a useful thing).

Yes. I have it here, and do a save with it from time to time; I also
have BartPE ready to make it possible to restore with it if Windows
won't boot. So far I haven't _had_ to _do_ a restore with it, but it's
good to know I have the option - and yes, I did prove to myself (by
trying) that I _could_.

I think I have a copy of Bart around here too, but haven't had to use it,
fortunately. And also some NTFS4DOS stuff. But I also have a Acronis True
Image bootable CD (so if windows has an issue, I can boot off of it, and
restore my last image backup of the system). And I've had to use that on a
very few occasions after some of my "experiments".

As with all backup strategies - from ERUNT through system restore to
full clone - knowing "when the need" is _going_ to "arise" is the main
difficulty (-:! I guess doing it regularly is best, but how regularly is
worthwhile is going to differ from user to user.

Yup. I seem to be making an almost daily image backup of my system. I
don't think I've ever gone a week without doing so. Since it only takes 10
minutes, it's no biggie (I'm using internal SATA2 drives so it's fast)

Best of all is to restore an image or clone backup of your system, of
course, which is what I routinely do after testing out some software app
that I may not want to keep.


(So you make the clone directly before the test install?)

Yes, although not a clone - an image of my C: system partition (with the
installed programs, etc). I keep almost everything together on my C:
partition, EXCEPT for music and video files, which are on their own
respective partitions. I know some prefer to have a separate partition for
data documents and even programs, but not me. :-)

Barry Bruyea wrote:
On Sun, 10 Mar 2013 16:17:29 +0000, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
wrote:

In message , VanguardLH
writes:
Barry Bruyea wrote:

I've received some great information and suggestions in regards to my
initial post, but not one reply has covered the fact that all of a
sudden the system crashes when doing a registry check. As I said in
the initial post the check starts and proceeds and then suddenly
crashes. I would appreciate some info on why this is happening. I've
taken to heart the suggestion of not using these programs, but this
question remains.
[]
That regedit.exe freezes sure sounds like something running (active) on
your host doesn't want you peeking in there. If it let you edit the
[]
I think we need to wait until he replies (if he does) to my query as to
what precisely he means when he says "doing a registry check". You have
assumed (a) he means he was using regedit (b) that it froze: he said
"crashes", which could be a freeze, or could be something else.


A registry check, for instance with jv16, means the program throws up
what it consider bad or obsolete entries and asks you to either check
to remove or leave alone. During the process, the blue screen appears
and Windows crashes, reboots ok.

The registry checker, will use an API of the OS, to make changes
to the registry. I doubt the registry checker program writes
to any file directly. There's an interface for the registry.
And just like using the interface on a database, you don't
write directly to the database file, you work with the
database server interface, to do reads and writes.

So something the third-party registry checker, sent to the
database interface on Windows, killed Windows.

Paul

In message , Bill in Co
writes:
J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
In message , Paul
writes:
[]
Don't use really ancient restore points. Use one that is only
a few days old. System Restore does more than it needs
to, on WinXP, and you can lose data files (if they're

data files ...

stored outside My Documents).

I've seen this statement (or ones very like it) before. So system
restore actually deletes files? Is that only from certain locations on
drive C, or what? When you say data files, I presume you mean ones
created by applications, such as documents, pictures, sound, video, or
whatever the application is there to handle.

System Restore monitors executables and the like (incl DLLs), no matter
where they are stored (except in My Documents, as I recall). So if you
saved a program file somewhere, and then do a System Restore prior to the

.... or program files?

time you saved it, it will indeed be removed after the restore operation.
Document type files are not monitored, and won't be affected (which makes
sense -).

There was a good and detailed Microsoft web page somewhere listing what
types of files are monitored and what locations are NOT monitored (such as
My Documents).

This is a newer link, but it is not as detailed as the old one used to be:
http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/w...s-of-files-doe
s-system-restore-change

And this one which details which file types are monitored:
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/libr...=vs.85%29.aspx


--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

All humanity is divided into three classes: those who are immovable, those who
are movable, and those who move! - Benjamin Franklin

J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
In message , Bill in Co
writes:
J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
In message , Paul
writes:
[]
Don't use really ancient restore points. Use one that is only
a few days old. System Restore does more than it needs
to, on WinXP, and you can lose data files (if they're

data files ...

Data files?? Only specific types of files (system types of files) are
monitored (and thus affected) by System Restore operations, but that doesn't
include personal data files, if we have the same meaning of what constitutes
a "data file":

Document (data) type files are not; but system type files are.
Thus .DOC., .TXT. etc are unaffected (I'd call those "data files").
EXE, DLL, COM, are definitely affected (I'd call those system type). :-)

So I would say "data files" are NOT affected.
By "data files", I mean (for example) Word documents, and the like. NOT
executables!

stored outside My Documents).

I've seen this statement (or ones very like it) before. So system
restore actually deletes files? Is that only from certain locations on
drive C, or what? When you say data files, I presume you mean ones
created by applications, such as documents, pictures, sound, video, or
whatever the application is there to handle.

System Restore monitors executables and the like (incl DLLs), no matter
where they are stored (except in My Documents, as I recall). So if you
saved a program file somewhere, and then do a System Restore prior to

... or program files?

time you saved it, it will indeed be removed after the restore operation.
Document type files are not monitored, and won't be affected (which makes
sense -).

There was a good and detailed Microsoft web page somewhere listing what
types of files are monitored and what locations are NOT monitored (such
as My Documents).

This is a newer link, but it is not as detailed as the old one used to
be:
http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/w...s-of-files-doe
s-system-restore-change

And this one which details which file types are monitored:
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/libr...=vs.85%29.aspx


--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

All humanity is divided into three classes: those who are immovable, those
who
are movable, and those who move! - Benjamin Franklin

Bill in Co wrote:
J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
In message , Bill in Co
writes:
J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
In message , Paul
writes:
[]
Don't use really ancient restore points. Use one that is only
a few days old. System Restore does more than it needs
to, on WinXP, and you can lose data files (if they're
data files ...

Data files?? Only specific types of files (system types of files) are
monitored (and thus affected) by System Restore operations, but that doesn't
include personal data files, if we have the same meaning of what constitutes
a "data file":

Document (data) type files are not; but system type files are.
Thus .DOC., .TXT. etc are unaffected (I'd call those "data files").
EXE, DLL, COM, are definitely affected (I'd call those system type). :-)

So I would say "data files" are NOT affected.
By "data files", I mean (for example) Word documents, and the like. NOT
executables!

It does include user data files, as I have personally
witnessed on my own computer. I applied a restore point,
and data files stored outside My Documents were erased
(as they weren't present at the time point that the
restore point was taken). They were downloads.
So be careful. It's a good thing I happened to notice
that at the time. I reverted the system restore,
and my two data files came back. I cannot recollect
now, what extension the files might have had.

There was a good page which defined what WinXP SR does
with respect to files, but the last time I needed it I
couldn't find it again.

At the very least, turn off SR on all partitions except C:.
Restrict using it to C:. Then, if storing downloads, store
your downloads in My Documents for best (safest) results.

Paul

Paul wrote:
Bill in Co wrote:
J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
In message , Bill in Co
writes:
J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
In message , Paul
writes:
[]
Don't use really ancient restore points. Use one that is only
a few days old. System Restore does more than it needs
to, on WinXP, and you can lose data files (if they're
data files ...

Data files?? Only specific types of files (system types of files) are
monitored (and thus affected) by System Restore operations, but that
doesn't
include personal data files, if we have the same meaning of what
constitutes
a "data file":

Document (data) type files are not; but system type files are.
Thus .DOC., .TXT. etc are unaffected (I'd call those "data files").
EXE, DLL, COM, are definitely affected (I'd call those system type). :-)

So I would say "data files" are NOT affected.
By "data files", I mean (for example) Word documents, and the like. NOT
executables!

It does include user data files, as I have personally
witnessed on my own computer. I applied a restore point,
and data files stored outside My Documents were erased
(as they weren't present at the time point that the
restore point was taken). They were downloads.
So be careful. It's a good thing I happened to notice
that at the time. I reverted the system restore,
and my two data files came back. I cannot recollect
now, what extension the files might have had.

Here is a link describing which types of files are monitored. I don't see
"data file" types in there, at least at first glance. Maybe you can find
them.

But if you've saved a program somewhere, THAT will indeed be affected (and
be removed), but I don't classify that as a (personal) data file.

All of which makes sense, since System Restore has no business messin' with
personal data! (can you imagine how useless it would be if it did?) It's
only supposed to monitor system type files - files which can mess up your
system, not personal document type files. So I think you lost some system
or program type of file. Check out this link:

http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/libr...=vs.85%29.aspx

There was a good page which defined what WinXP SR does
with respect to files, but the last time I needed it I
couldn't find it again.

It may be gone by now (replaced with a newer, friendlier, dumbed down and
less detailed version, at the Microsoft site, at least from what I can tell.

At the very least, turn off SR on all partitions except C:.
Restrict using it to C:. Then, if storing downloads, store
your downloads in My Documents for best (safest) results.

Paul

In message , Bill in Co
writes:
Paul wrote:
[]
It does include user data files, as I have personally
witnessed on my own computer. I applied a restore point,
and data files stored outside My Documents were erased
(as they weren't present at the time point that the
restore point was taken). They were downloads.
So be careful. It's a good thing I happened to notice
that at the time. I reverted the system restore,
and my two data files came back. I cannot recollect
now, what extension the files might have had.

(I wonder where they'd been stored!)

Here is a link describing which types of files are monitored. I don't see
"data file" types in there, at least at first glance. Maybe you can find
them.

It actually says the list is for Vista and later: it says "The files
that are monitored or excluded from monitoring in Windows XP are
specified in the file %windir%\system32\restore\Filelist.xml."

But if you've saved a program somewhere, THAT will indeed be affected (and
be removed), but I don't classify that as a (personal) data file.
[]
or program type of file. Check out this link:

http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/libr...a378870%28v=vs.
85%29.aspx
[]
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

To me as an anaesthetist, a doctor whose job it is to keep the engine running
while someone else tries to fix it - Dr Kevin Fong, Radio Times 25 Sept-1 Oct
2010

J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
In message , Bill in Co
writes:
Paul wrote:
[]
It does include user data files, as I have personally
witnessed on my own computer. I applied a restore point,
and data files stored outside My Documents were erased
(as they weren't present at the time point that the
restore point was taken). They were downloads.
So be careful. It's a good thing I happened to notice
that at the time. I reverted the system restore,
and my two data files came back. I cannot recollect
now, what extension the files might have had.

(I wonder where they'd been stored!)

Same here!

Here is a link describing which types of files are monitored. I don't
see
"data file" types in there, at least at first glance. Maybe you can
find
them.

It actually says the list is for Vista and later: it says "The files
that are monitored or excluded from monitoring in Windows XP are
specified in the file %windir%\system32\restore\Filelist.xml."

YES, but if you check out that XML file (and I did), you'll find it's a
pretty similar list of file extensions. It's an extensive list of monitored
file types, but again, I didn't see any personal data type files in there
(nor should there be). You can verify that for yourself by taking a peek at
that file. :-)

All that said, I have been burned before on "losing" some recently
downloaded executables IF I used System Restore to restore back to a time
prior to the download of those executables). But that was my fault; lesson
learned, after understanding more about System Restore and how it operates.

The point of System Restore is to monitor *system file changes*, and I have
to say it seems to do a pretty good job of that, considering the complexity
of the task (and it can get you out of a pinch). But as I also added, you
occasionally need to reinstall some programs that may have been affected,
since it's not perfect. (Perfection lies in heaven, not down here. :-)

But if you've saved a program somewhere, THAT will indeed be affected
(and
be removed), but I don't classify that as a (personal) data file.
[]
or program type of file. Check out this link:

http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/libr...a378870%28v=vs.
85%29.aspx

In ,
Nil typed:
On 09 Mar 2013, wrote in
microsoft.public.windowsxp.general:

BULL ****ING ****!!!!!

If you dont clean the reg. it gets overloaded with all
the **** that was installed and deleted. Not just
programs, but even files you may have created, such as a
.DOC file, then deleted, are still noted in the reg.

None of that affects performance to any meaningful
degree. I challenge you to test it. Then let us know
where the BULL ****ING ****!!!!! lies.

Cleaning the reg. is like emptying the garbage in your
house. If you dont empty the garbage, the whole house
will get filled with garbage over time. The key to
cleaning the reg. is to selectively remove the trash.
Dont let it remove anything it wants. YOU make the final
decision what is removed.

Garbage is physical stuff that gets in your way. The
registry is an efficient, indexed database. It takes no
time for Windows to find what it wants in the registry,
no matter what else is there.
....

Just as the OP stated: as long as you can "put back" removed entries, even
if you or the program does make a mistake, it's recoverable.
It takes "NO" time to find what it wants? Your ignorance shows here. Yes,
it's only text, but after enough time it can defnitely slow down boot times
as it grows into mega-byte sizes and there is even the possibility that left
over chaff will get found and screw up a new install by hooking into one of
the pieces of garbage left over.
I once had a 7 year old machine in that, once I cleaned the registry of
all the missing items it referred to (and tried to find) that boot time
dropped by almost 3 minutes! Chkdsk did the rest.

HTH,

Twayne`

In ,
Ken Blake, MVP typed:
On Sun, 10 Mar 2013 14:15:59 -0400, Nil
wrote:

On 10 Mar 2013, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
wrote in
microsoft.public.windowsxp.general:

But, as you and others have said at length, the
registry that is actually in _use_ is the one in RAM.
Thus anything that only defrags the one on disc is not,
surely, doing _anything_ useful, since those files will
be rewritten back at the full size next time the RAM
copy is saved back.

Some registry compactors deal with that issue. Just this
morning I ran NTRegOpt to see what happened. It compacts
the registry to temporary files, then instructs you to
reboot. At bootup, the compacted copies are moved into
place.

Not that it made much difference - there was only a 1%
decrease in file size.


And even if the percentage was higher, it would scarcely
have made any difference, since the registry is never
very large.

You are so pathetically wrong it's almost funny. Your narcisstic approach
only shows a closed mind at work (not).

Very well explained, with the important details.... thanks for posting
this.
--
Glen Ventura
MS MVP Oct. 2002 - Sept. 2009
CompTIA A+

In message , glee
writes:
Very well explained, with the important details.... thanks for posting
this.

To whom were you replying?
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

The only difference between saints and sinners is that every saint has a past
while every sinner has a future. -Oscar Wilde, writer (1854-1900)

On Saturday, March 9, 2013 8:44:22 PM UTC+5:30, Barry Bruyea wrote:
I have three programs that are used to clean the Registry. One of

them, jv16 I've used for years and it has been very reliable. The

problem I've been having for a couple of days is that when I use them,

the start up the process and suddenly the computer crashes. It is so

fast that I can't tell which found entry might be the cause. Even

RegEdit freezes when checking. Other than that the computer is

running normally. Any ideas?

I am using Chily Registry Cleaner software from last 2 years, i never faced any type of problem and my computer speed goes fast.

Thanks

"J. P. Gilliver (John)" wrote in message
...
In message , glee
writes:
Very well explained, with the important details.... thanks for posting
this.

To whom were you replying?

If you are using NNTP and a newsreader application, the conversation
should be threaded, and who I am replying to should be fairly easy to
see. I replied to Vanguard's original response.
--
Glen Ventura
MS MVP Oct. 2002 - Sept. 2009
CompTIA A+