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#16
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[OT] Ubuntu Code of Conduct v2.0
On 24/02/2017 15:18, Mayayana wrote:
"David B." wrote | Ubuntu is about showing humanity to one another: the word itself | captures the spirit of being human. | I find the whole OSS world and "youth-tech" to be very interesting sociologically, but not necessarily an ideal world in the way they'd like to think. Ubuntu is a dubious product: http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2013/10/u...-privacy-award OSS run by an autocrat? I've never actually installed it because to the extent I'm interested in Linux, I'm interested in the aspect of it being a functional tool that I can control for myself. So I can't speak to the Ubuntu product. I'm not interested in using tightly controlled adware simply because it's said to be OSS. (And that's assuming I could get past the silly Sesame Street names of their versions.) Although I Googled, I'm not 100% sure I understand what YOU mean by "OSS"! See what I found, he- https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=OS...OaeGgAbjw4qoDQ Perhaps you can spare a moment to clarify? I've been somewhat intrigued by my flirtation with Linux these past few days. It seems fairly obvious that one is connecting to a completely unknown server - which then has total carte-blanche to look at each every single file on one's computer. I'm not sure I really like that! I'm fairly sure YOU wouldn't like that either, Mayayana! ;-) Thank you for giving me such a comprehensive response in the first instance. Like you, I do rather like the unregulated nature of Usenet! -- "Do something wonderful, people may imitate it." (Albert Schweitzer) |
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#17
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[OT] Ubuntu Code of Conduct v2.0
"David B." wrote
| Although I Googled, I'm not 100% sure I understand what YOU mean by | "OSS"! See what I found, he- | Open source software. | I've been somewhat intrigued by my flirtation with Linux these past few | days. It seems fairly obvious that one is connecting to a completely | unknown server - which then has total carte-blanche to look at each | every single file on one's computer. I don't know about that. Maybe with Ubuntu. That seems to be more a private product. Just as Android is Linux, Linux can be a lot of things. I've used Suse and Mandrake/Mandriva. They seemed OK to me, aside from the lack of software. But they're increasingly being designed to ignore end-user preference in favor of a concept of usability. Self-updating software. Root that's not really root, just as Windows admin is no longer really admin. Lack of tools to control outgoing processes. Maybe that's what you mean? I've never got to the point of using Linux online, partly because I didn't feel confident that I could know and control porcesses. (I never found a single firewall product that would let me filter outgoing processes like several free Windows firewalls will do.) I've always thought of Windows as providing tweakability at many different levels. Windows used to accomodate any level of expertise and provide tools for that level. That's what made it so much fun, and so useful. Microsoft have been gradually taking away that flexibility, moving toward a kiosk services UI. Linux used to be at one extreme: A system that only a handyman could love. Everything was accessible. Yet like the garage of a compulsive handyman, nothing was ever finished and organized. It was always in process. Now it's going to the other extreme, skipping the polished-but-tweakable step that made Windows so lovable. Now either you dig deep and spend a lot of time fixing things and running ridiculously tedious script incantations in console windows, or you accept a "modern" UI that hides your options, and in the case of Ubuntu may very well be tracking you. I think there's one central, fatal flaw with Linux as a Desktop system: The people in charge are basically greasemonkeys who don't want any easy learning curves. They're like teenage boys in a secret club. Entrance to the club requires hazing. Otherwise it will lose its special mystique. In the Windows world there are always a few oldtimers who detest the mouse and insist that real men use keyboard incantations. But Microsoft accomodates all types. In the Linux world, a sense of humor and a grain of salt are simply not tolerated. If you're not a greasemonkey then you don't deserve to be able to control the system and should be restricted to lackey-level functionality, like Apple products and tablets. For that reason, I don't have much hope of Linux ever being a good Desktop option. Ironically, it's even less likely to ever be a good option for tweakers. |
#18
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[OT] Ubuntu Code of C
- Subject: [OT] Ubuntu Code of Conduct v2.0
- From: "David B." - Although I Googled, I'm not 100% sure I understand what YOU mean by - "OSS"! See what I found, he- - - https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=OS...&client=firefo - _rd=cr&ei=xyWzWPXuOaeGgAbjw4qoDQ - - Perhaps you can spare a moment to clarify? I would care to guess he means "Open Source Software," in which case I believe the correct term is actually FOSS - "Free and Open Source Software." - - I've been somewhat intrigued by my flirtation with Linux these past f - days. It seems fairly obvious that one is connecting to a completely - unknown server - which then has total carte-blanche to look at each - every single file on one's computer. I'm not sure I really like that! - - I'm fairly sure YOU wouldn't like that either, Mayayana! ;-) - Actually, this is incorrect. If it were correct, Windows would have the same "carte blanche" access that you say you think Linux has. True, you MIGHT be able to view filenames, but assuming the access controls and permissions are set correctly, the contents of said files cannot be viewed -- unless someone hacked a password that a user did not create strong enough. - Thank you for giving me such a comprehensive response in the first - instance. Like you, I do rather like the unregulated nature of - Usenet! Depends on which newsgroups you are reading from and writing to. |
#19
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[OT] Ubuntu Code of Conduct v2.0
"Mayayana" news
Sun, 26 Feb 2017 20:33:33 GMT in alt.computer.workshop, wrote:
For that reason, I don't have much hope of Linux ever being a good Desktop option. Ironically, it's even less likely to ever be a good option for tweakers. I can't say as I share the same opinion based on my experience so far with Linux Mint... -- Sarcasm, because beating the living **** out of deserving people is illegal. |
#20
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[OT] Ubuntu Code of Conduct v2.0
"Diesel" wrote
| For that | reason, I don't have much hope of Linux ever being a | good Desktop option. Ironically, it's even less likely to | ever be a good option for tweakers. | | I can't say as I share the same opinion based on my experience so far | with Linux Mint... | I'm curious as to why. What I meant by not good for tweakers was not good for mid-level expertise. For instance, in Windows some tweaks are available to anyone who braves Control Panel. Others require editing the Registry. All levels of tweaks are gradually disappearing. My experience with Linux has been that they started with plain root with no restrictions. It took a lot of work to set up, but there were no restrictions. Today it's typical that one needs to jump through hoops to be "super user", or "sudo". root is no longer root. Just like Windows. But Linux never had the "golden age" of flexibility in between geek system and quasi-kiosk. The system is increasingly designed to be self- updating, just like Windows. And I never found a fully functional, easy firewall that blocks outgoing on a per-process basis and no one using Linux has ever answered that concern except to say that Linux is trustworthy so I shouldn't need that functionality. So I'm expected to trust outgoing processes, while at the same time I'm restricted from my own files. (I found that it was easiest to keep all files on FAT32 data partitions rather than wrestle with Linux restrictions.) Again, it's similar to changes in Windows. Even kiosk devices don't normally self-update. I regard that as a problematic trend. A simple, functional firewall is also a good example of what I mean with tweaking. It allows people advanced control without advanced training. Advanced configuration should be possible without ever needing to open a console window or do extensive research. |
#21
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[OT] Ubuntu Code of Conduct v2.0
I have looked at running Ubuntu on my spare test computer .
If i have to jump though hoops to get root level access then ill just look else where. Maybe at a different version of Linux from another maker -- AL'S COMPUTERS "Mayayana" wrote in message news "Diesel" wrote | For that | reason, I don't have much hope of Linux ever being a | good Desktop option. Ironically, it's even less likely to | ever be a good option for tweakers. | | I can't say as I share the same opinion based on my experience so far | with Linux Mint... | I'm curious as to why. What I meant by not good for tweakers was not good for mid-level expertise. For instance, in Wsible without ever needing to open a console window or do extensive research. |
#22
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[OT] Ubuntu Code of Conduct v2.0
On 28/02/2017 07:25, Andy wrote:
I have looked at running Ubuntu on my spare test computer . If i have to jump though hoops to get root level access then ill just look else where. Maybe at a different version of Linux from another maker Do read here, Andy! https://sites.google.com/site/easyli...m-requirements HTH -- "Do something wonderful, people may imitate it." (Albert Schweitzer) |
#23
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[OT] Ubuntu Code of Conduct v2.0
Andy wrote:
I have looked at running Ubuntu on my spare test computer . If i have to jump though hoops to get root level access then ill just look else where. Maybe at a different version of Linux from another maker That's what "sudo" is for. Sudo is a way of granting privileges with some level of granularity. On a typical LiveCD, you're given the whole set of them, so nothing is held back. (I had sudo at work, with a restricted list of commands, and I couldn't in fact elevate myself to root.) sudo synaptic That would start the Package Manager as root. sudo su sudo su - Now, you're root. (In the first case, keeping the environment of the regular user.) But beware. Just like Win7 or Win10, being root isn't all it's cracked up to be. Some tools do not like to be run as root, because they know that it encourages easier exploits of the OS. Expect to see lots of snotty dialog boxes, trying to educate you. So if you did sudo su - passwd enter a new root password, twice ... logout login as root (or try) Expect resistance. I can't tell you exactly what you'll see, as I learned all my lessons back in S11R4/S11R5 days. I don't need to try this "experiment" any more :-) HTH, Paul |
#24
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[OT] Ubuntu Code of Conduct v2.0
David B. wrote:
On 28/02/2017 07:25, Andy wrote: I have looked at running Ubuntu on my spare test computer . If i have to jump though hoops to get root level access then ill just look else where. Maybe at a different version of Linux from another maker Do read here, Andy! https://sites.google.com/site/easyli...m-requirements HTH But that page doesn't discuss the SSE2 issue. Processors like AthlonXP 32 bit, don't have SSE2. It's a good idea to use a modern enough CPU, that it includes SSE2. (Bottom line, throw that Celeron 300MHz in the garbage.) http://cromwell-intl.com/linux/flash...-sse2-cpu.html If you're on Windows, you can use this to test your CPU first. At least this can show SSE2 support. "Coreinfo" (May not be able to list whizzy new stuff in Kaby Lake...) https://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/...rnals/cc835722 Xorg has had some graphics drivers removed from it, but for the most part, this is unlikely to "sink" your project. They're still nibbling at the edges. For example, S3 Trio 64 support has been removed on some distros. There could be others. And if you have Intel graphics, just about anything could happen. And some distros, when they say they are "low resource" distros for older computers, they really mean it. I booted one of them on my newer computer, and practically none of the hardware had drivers (no USB!). About the only thing it did have, was a disk driver, and that's why it booted. The graphics in that case happened to use "Xvesa", whatever that is. Undoubtedly that would have run perfectly on my Celeron 300 system. While you're experimenting, you will learn a lot. Paul |
#25
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[OT] Ubuntu Code of Conduct v2.0
"Mayayana" news
Mon, 27 Feb 2017 14:42:13 GMT in alt.computer.workshop, wrote:
"Diesel" wrote | For that | reason, I don't have much hope of Linux ever being a | good Desktop option. Ironically, it's even less likely to | ever be a good option for tweakers. | | I can't say as I share the same opinion based on my experience so | far with Linux Mint... | I'm curious as to why. I have it installed on several towers and laptops, used here and elsewhere. The individuals using it seem to be very happy. I've been pleased with it here, myself. My experience with Linux has been that they started with plain root with no restrictions. It took a lot of work to set up, but there were no restrictions. Today it's typical that one needs to jump through hoops to be "super user", or "sudo". root is no longer root. Just like Windows. But Linux never had the "golden age" of flexibility in between geek system and quasi-kiosk. I don't remember Linux being so generous with full system access so easily. Your time with it may predate mine, though. The system is increasingly designed to be self- updating, just like Windows. None of the linux machines I'm presently using or that friends are using do any self updating. They all notify me/them updates are available, but we have to enter admin password to download and apply any of them. The machines will not take it upon themselves to update. Oh, I didn't change anything, afaik, out of the Linux Mint install to effect that, either. And I never found a fully functional, easy firewall that blocks outgoing on a per-process basis and no one using Linux has ever answered that concern except to say that Linux is trustworthy so I shouldn't need that functionality. I haven't tried to do that, yet. Haven't found a reason to need to do so, yet. (I found that it was easiest to keep all files on FAT32 data partitions rather than wrestle with Linux restrictions.) I didn't wrestle with the permissions. I actually like having them, myself. A simple, functional firewall is also a good example of what I mean with tweaking. It allows people advanced control without advanced training. Advanced configuration should be possible without ever needing to open a console window or do extensive research. That's a personal matter of opinion of which I don't fully agree. -- Sarcasm, because beating the living **** out of deserving people is illegal. |
#26
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[OT] Ubuntu Code of Conduct v2.0
On 28/02/2017 08:33, Paul wrote:
While you're experimenting, you will learn a lot. How right you are, Paul! Thank you for your contribution. -- "Do something wonderful, people may imitate it." (Albert Schweitzer) |
#27
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[OT] Ubuntu Code of Conduct v2.0
"Andy" wrote
|I have looked at running Ubuntu on my spare test computer . | If i have to jump though hoops to get root level access then ill just look | else where. | Maybe at a different version of Linux from another maker | Ubuntu has become popular as the easy-to-use version, but it's also become known as spyware. http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2012/09/m...adware-feature I don't know the status of that now, but Mark Shuttleworth, the founder, clearly thought it was OK to track your searches and show related ads, as well as to partner with Amazon. The problem with Linux, as I was trying to describe, is that there's a tradeoff. It's mainly been used by tech people. Kiosk applications are increasing, but they're locked down. Desktop use is limited. And all of this tends to be looked at from the point of view of corporate admins rather than SOHo users. All of that has resulted in a system that's hard to use "raw", limited in its more polished applications, and sorely lacking good software other than techie tools. Windows started out being widely used by people who owned their own computer and needed to do work. So it was designed to be flexible and compliant for non-techies. And there was big money to be made creating tools for work. so software companies and Microsoft all cooperated to make that happen. All of which is to say that while Windows is heading from tweakable to kiosk, Linux choices are mostly between geek and lackey. Ther was never a tweakable market. Linux geeks are proud that so few people can use the system. If you forego the easy-to-use version you're faced with needing to learn more and deal with more time-wasting console incantations. I've mainly used Suse and Mandriva, mostly because Suse and RedHat-type software installers are the most plentiful. The last time I spent time with Linux was a few years ago, when I tried (unsuccessfully) to work with the WINE people in porting Windows software. At that time both Suse and Mandriva were similar to Windows in that they made true admin/root difficult to access. Even "sudo" superuser, which has no business existing when there was already root, was hard to get access to... For your own protection, of course. And don't you dare ask how to do it in a Linux newsgroup. They'll just swear like teenagers and express regret that they can't stone you to death. That's the other nice thing about Windows that's often underappreciated: There's only a very mild cult aspect. Unlike Apple and Linux fanatics, Windows users tend to see themselves as just using a computer, almost unaware of the brand or OS. |
#28
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[OT] Ubuntu Code of Conduct v2.0
On 28/02/2017 15:01, Mayayana wrote:
"Andy" wrote |I have looked at running Ubuntu on my spare test computer . | If i have to jump though hoops to get root level access then ill just look | else where. | Maybe at a different version of Linux from another maker | Ubuntu has become popular as the easy-to-use version, but it's also become known as spyware. http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2012/09/m...adware-feature I don't know the status of that now, but Mark Shuttleworth, the founder, clearly thought it was OK to track your searches and show related ads, as well as to partner with Amazon. The problem with Linux, as I was trying to describe, is that there's a tradeoff. It's mainly been used by tech people. Kiosk applications are increasing, but they're locked down. Desktop use is limited. And all of this tends to be looked at from the point of view of corporate admins rather than SOHo users. All of that has resulted in a system that's hard to use "raw", limited in its more polished applications, and sorely lacking good software other than techie tools. Windows started out being widely used by people who owned their own computer and needed to do work. So it was designed to be flexible and compliant for non-techies. And there was big money to be made creating tools for work. so software companies and Microsoft all cooperated to make that happen. All of which is to say that while Windows is heading from tweakable to kiosk, Linux choices are mostly between geek and lackey. Ther was never a tweakable market. Linux geeks are proud that so few people can use the system. If you forego the easy-to-use version you're faced with needing to learn more and deal with more time-wasting console incantations. I've mainly used Suse and Mandriva, mostly because Suse and RedHat-type software installers are the most plentiful. The last time I spent time with Linux was a few years ago, when I tried (unsuccessfully) to work with the WINE people in porting Windows software. At that time both Suse and Mandriva were similar to Windows in that they made true admin/root difficult to access. Even "sudo" superuser, which has no business existing when there was already root, was hard to get access to... For your own protection, of course. And don't you dare ask how to do it in a Linux newsgroup. They'll just swear like teenagers and express regret that they can't stone you to death. That's the other nice thing about Windows that's often underappreciated: There's only a very mild cult aspect. Unlike Apple and Linux fanatics, Windows users tend to see themselves as just using a computer, almost unaware of the brand or OS. You have a wonderful way with words, Mayayana and nowadays I can follow most of what you are saying! I'm no techie, but I can (and do!) operate Windows, Apple and Linux machines. I'm often criticized for asking about the people behind the nym - but you seem to be an interesting and talented individual and I'd really like to know a little bit more about you. Will you share or will that be eating into your much valued privacy? Regardless, you have been most helpful and friendly towards me and for that I sincerely thank you. :-) -- "Do something wonderful, people may imitate it." (Albert Schweitzer) |
#29
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[OT] Ubuntu Code of Conduct v2.0
"David B." wrote
| I'm no techie, but I can (and do!) operate | Windows, Apple and Linux machines. 99% of people would call that a techie. | I'm often criticized for asking about the people behind the nym It's bad manners. You're not asking a question for yourself of someone you know. You're asking a stranger personal questions in public. I think you know that, so why do you persist? |
#30
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[OT] Ubuntu Code of Conduct v2.0
On 01/03/2017 00:28, Mayayana wrote:
"David B." wrote | I'm no techie, but I can (and do!) operate | Windows, Apple and Linux machines. 99% of people would call that a techie. Alright then! ;-) | I'm often criticized for asking about the people behind the nym It's bad manners. You're not asking a question for yourself of someone you know. You're asking a stranger personal questions in public. I think you know that, so why do you persist? Mayayana *YOU* claim that it's bad manners but millions of people don't hide who they are and what they do. Here's an example: https://be.linkedin.com/in/mieke-verburgh-429a5527 I'm what's known as a 'people person' http://www.dictionary.com/browse/people-person You might like to try it someday! ;-) Sometimes, when out boating and we meet folk at a lock, one can get a complete life history from a stranger in less than 10 minutes! That's FUN! Have a grand day. -- "Do something wonderful, people may imitate it." (Albert Schweitzer)Mayayana |
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