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large external hard drives



 
 
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  #1  
Old February 21st 20, 01:29 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Dee[_6_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 24
Default large external hard drives

I recently bought a WD Elements 2 TB external drive. Win XP SP 3 was
able to see the drive but was not able to format it to make it usable.
I had to download the WD Quick Formatter tool which then formatted the
drive in about a minute. The drive is now recognized and is able to be
used.

My question is, would this also work with a larger 4 or 5 TB drive?

Thanks.
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  #2  
Old February 21st 20, 01:37 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,alt.windows7.general
J. P. Gilliver (John)[_7_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 603
Default large external hard drives

In message , Dee writes:
I recently bought a WD Elements 2 TB external drive. Win XP SP 3 was
able to see the drive but was not able to format it to make it usable.
I had to download the WD Quick Formatter tool which then formatted the
drive in about a minute. The drive is now recognized and is able to be
used.

My question is, would this also work with a larger 4 or 5 TB drive?

Thanks.


1. Can you tell us where you downloaded it from?
1a. Does it only work on WD drives?
2. Would it also get round whatever size limit Windows 7 has?
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Won't you come into the garden? I would like my roses to see you. -Richard

  #3  
Old February 21st 20, 03:25 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
VanguardLH[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,881
Default large external hard drives

Dee wrote:

I recently bought a WD Elements 2 TB external drive. Win XP SP 3 was
able to see the drive but was not able to format it to make it usable.
I had to download the WD Quick Formatter tool which then formatted the
drive in about a minute. The drive is now recognized and is able to be
used.

My question is, would this also work with a larger 4 or 5 TB drive?

Thanks.


You never mentioned which file system is used.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compar...systems#Limits

Besides those upper limites based on file size, the OS can impose its
own restriction on maximum volume size, along with a maximume size
threshold supported by the BIOS (whether MBR or UEFI).

https://www.hardwaresecrets.com/hard...city-limits/6/

You never identified your motherboard brand and version, so you'll have
to check its manual or specifications to see what it can support for the
maximum number of clusters. To get beyond that limit, you would have to
change the cluster size in the file system; i.e., make the clusters
larger, so the same max number of LBAs (logical block addresses) in the
BIOS could span larger volumes. Some old mobos only had 24 bits for LBA
mode. Some have 32 bits. And some have 48 bits.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logica...dressing#LBA48

What you get for the maximum size is the ceiling for the least maximum
value of what your BIOS, OS, and file system can handle.

Too many unknowns for your setup. Is the disk formatted as MBR or GPT?
Does your mobo support only the older MBR or newer UEFI BIOS? Are you
willing to change (enlarge) the number of sectors per cluster which also
means increased slack space per file, so more disk space gets wasted
despite you can address a larger volume?

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/...rger-than-2-tb

With Windows XP, and assuming you are using either FAT32 or NTFS for the
file system, and also assuming your mobo is old, so it doesn't have a
UEFI BIOS and you cannot format the disk using GPT partitions, just
stick with 2 TB per partition. For larger disks, just slice them up
into 2 TB partitions, or smaller.

An old trick when exceeding the LBA count in the BIOS was to install a
kernel-level driver that loaded at the start of loading the OS. It
could address a larger partition; however, if that driver didn't load
then you couldn't get at the last part of the partition which meant you
lost files some of which could be for the OS. Not enough info about the
WD quick formatter tool to know if it used this old ploy.

More likely the tool converted to NTFS the external disk's file system.
However, the FAT32 file system will handle larger volumes (partitions),
but not necessarily the formatter that comes with the OS. Users have
had to turn to 3rd party partition managers for a very long time. You
found just one of hundreds. There are lots more, like from Easeus,
Aomei, Paragon, Minitoo, GParted, Active@, and lots more. In fact, I
think WD's partition manager is a rebranded Powerquest Partition Magic.

As I recall, Windows XP itself refused to let you create an OS partition
that was larger than 2 TB despite FAT32 would support a larger
partition. You installed Windows XP, and then used a 3rd party
partition manager to enlarge the partition to occupy more or all of the
physical disk's capacity.
  #4  
Old February 21st 20, 03:43 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,alt.windows7.general
Paul[_32_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 11,873
Default large external hard drives

J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
In message , Dee writes:
I recently bought a WD Elements 2 TB external drive. Win XP SP 3 was
able to see the drive but was not able to format it to make it usable.
I had to download the WD Quick Formatter tool which then formatted the
drive in about a minute. The drive is now recognized and is able to be
used.

My question is, would this also work with a larger 4 or 5 TB drive?

Thanks.


1. Can you tell us where you downloaded it from?
1a. Does it only work on WD drives?
2. Would it also get round whatever size limit Windows 7 has?


https://downloads.wdc.com/wdapp/WD_Q...r_2.0.0.65.zip

https://support-en.wd.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/16241

"When the scanning process comes to an end, there will be a
drop down menu listing a WD external drive under Drive to format.

This is the screen displayed when the drive is 2TB in size or less."

"On a Windows system and if the drive is greater than 2TB, the
screen below will be displayed.

Decide if the drive is to be used with a computer running Windows XP.

If it might be used on Windows XP, then select XP Compatible.

If the drive is not to be used with Windows XP, then select Factory Default.

Important:

XP Compatible configuration option is not available on Windows 8 and 10"

"When WD Quick Formatter is finished, the drive will have one partition.
This is necessary in order to optimize the performance of the drive."

*******

Files written

C:\Documents and Settings\All Users\Application Data\Western Digital\Logs
\WD QuickFormatter\Administrator\WD Quick Formatter.log

Failed to load locale files from C:\Documents and Settings\Administrator
\Local Settings\Temp\EB93A6\WD SmartWare\Locale

*******

I tried it out. It won't accept a WDC drive on a generic USB
controller. It must be intended specifically for Passport
or MyBook or similar products.

I found a claim, that some WDC products (could be those 5TB drives
with the USB connector right on the controller board), they may
be presenting 4Kn sectors to the OS. WinXP might not know how
to format such an item. The QuickFormatter might solve the problem.
However, I don't know how or if addressing from WinXP works
properly for that. The MBR may specify a 32bit number, and by
the controller on the drive using "fake" 4Kn sectors, the 32 bit
number can represent drive sizes up to 16TB. But when the OS
goes to write to the 16TB volume, it must be aware the sectors
on the drive are 4K each. And will WinXP countenance such a
situation ? It's not clear from this what would happen.

https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/win...ectedfrom=MSDN

This may be why the WD QuickFormatter exists, but I can't really
be certain. It's to cover the "non-standard" information the
USB interfaces on such drives present to the OS. You would
have to do more digging, to get a report of what logical
and physical sectors the drive is presenting, and how
it's possible via USB for that to not be a problem
(on WinXP, Vista, or Win7 - as Win8 and Win10 eventually
supported 4Kn for sure).

Even if you use the WD QuickFormatter, there is no particular
reason that any Partition Management software need work
properly. PowerQuest Partition Magic for example, does
not accept any shenanigans at all when it comes to such
issues. It's simply going to exit and tell you it won't
touch such a drive. There may be other programs that
will (eventually) decide they can't help you either.

This might also be why the drive only wants one partition
on there - it might have something to do with alignment,
or with the details of the "abomination" used to write
to the drive.

The drive should be fine for the intended purpose, of supporting
writes from backup software.

Paul
  #5  
Old February 21st 20, 08:05 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,alt.windows7.general
J. P. Gilliver (John)[_7_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 603
Default large external hard drives

In message , Paul
writes:
J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:

[]
1. Can you tell us where you downloaded it from?
1a. Does it only work on WD drives?
2. Would it also get round whatever size limit Windows 7 has?


https://downloads.wdc.com/wdapp/WD_Q...r_2.0.0.65.zip


1. Thanks.

https://support-en.wd.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/16241

[]
I tried it out. It won't accept a WDC drive on a generic USB
controller. It must be intended specifically for Passport
or MyBook or similar products.


1a. Thanks - looks like it might even be only for _some_ WD drives.
[]
(And thanks for the rest, too.)
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

pu gnikcab yb naem uoy tahw siht sI
  #6  
Old February 21st 20, 11:27 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
No_Name
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 627
Default large external hard drives

On Fri, 21 Feb 2020 19:05:53 +0000, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
wrote:

In message , Paul
writes:
J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:

[]
1. Can you tell us where you downloaded it from?
1a. Does it only work on WD drives?
2. Would it also get round whatever size limit Windows 7 has?


https://downloads.wdc.com/wdapp/WD_Q...r_2.0.0.65.zip


1. Thanks.

https://support-en.wd.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/16241

[]
I tried it out. It won't accept a WDC drive on a generic USB
controller. It must be intended specifically for Passport
or MyBook or similar products.


1a. Thanks - looks like it might even be only for _some_ WD drives.
[]
(And thanks for the rest, too.)


I didn't see that he tried the Disk Administration tool to delete and
add the partition. That might have fixed it. I have had strange
problems with big drives fixed that way and I never really cared why.
  #7  
Old February 22nd 20, 01:43 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,alt.windows7.general
Dee[_6_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 24
Default large external hard drives

Paul wrote in
:

J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
In message , Dee
writes:
I recently bought a WD Elements 2 TB external drive. Win XP SP 3
was able to see the drive but was not able to format it to make
it usable. I had to download the WD Quick Formatter tool which
then formatted the drive in about a minute. The drive is now
recognized and is able to be used.

My question is, would this also work with a larger 4 or 5 TB
drive?

Thanks.


1. Can you tell us where you downloaded it from?
1a. Does it only work on WD drives?
2. Would it also get round whatever size limit Windows 7 has?


https://downloads.wdc.com/wdapp/WD_Q...r_2.0.0.65.zip


I used an older version, WD_Quick_Formatter_Win_1_2_0_10.zip, because
I wasn't sure that the lastest version would work on XP.

*******

I tried it out. It won't accept a WDC drive on a generic USB
controller. It must be intended specifically for Passport
or MyBook or similar products.

I found a claim, that some WDC products (could be those 5TB drives
with the USB connector right on the controller board), they may
be presenting 4Kn sectors to the OS. WinXP might not know how
to format such an item. The QuickFormatter might solve the
problem. However, I don't know how or if addressing from WinXP
works properly for that. The MBR may specify a 32bit number, and
by the controller on the drive using "fake" 4Kn sectors, the 32
bit number can represent drive sizes up to 16TB. But when the OS
goes to write to the 16TB volume, it must be aware the sectors
on the drive are 4K each. And will WinXP countenance such a
situation ? It's not clear from this what would happen.


This was what I had read too, something about removing the GPT and
making it MBR only, and something about 4K size to get around the XP
limitation.


https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/win...book/advanced-
format--4k--disk-compatibility-update?redirectedfrom=MSDN

This may be why the WD QuickFormatter exists, but I can't really
be certain. It's to cover the "non-standard" information the
USB interfaces on such drives present to the OS. You would
have to do more digging, to get a report of what logical
and physical sectors the drive is presenting, and how
it's possible via USB for that to not be a problem
(on WinXP, Vista, or Win7 - as Win8 and Win10 eventually
supported 4Kn for sure).

Even if you use the WD QuickFormatter, there is no particular
reason that any Partition Management software need work
properly. PowerQuest Partition Magic for example, does
not accept any shenanigans at all when it comes to such
issues. It's simply going to exit and tell you it won't
touch such a drive. There may be other programs that
will (eventually) decide they can't help you either.

This might also be why the drive only wants one partition
on there - it might have something to do with alignment,
or with the details of the "abomination" used to write
to the drive.


Yes, and one partition is fine for my usage.


The drive should be fine for the intended purpose, of supporting
writes from backup software.

Paul


Thanks, Paul. It sounds like it would work for a larger drive as
well, then.

Dee
  #8  
Old February 23rd 20, 01:44 AM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
STALKING_TARGET_07
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1
Default large external hard drives

On Friday, February 21, 2020 at 12:08:11 PM UTC-7, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
In message , Paul
writes:
J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:

[]
1. Can you tell us where you downloaded it from?
1a. Does it only work on WD drives?
2. Would it also get round whatever size limit Windows 7 has?


https://downloads.wdc.com/wdapp/WD_Q...r_2.0.0.65.zip


1. Thanks.

https://support-en.wd.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/16241

[]
I tried it out. It won't accept a WDC drive on a generic USB
controller. It must be intended specifically for Passport
or MyBook or similar products.


1a. Thanks - looks like it might even be only for _some_ WD drives.
[]
(And thanks for the rest, too.)
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

pu gnikcab yb naem uoy tahw siht sI




nospam failed to give a single time of a profitable business that has acquired its position by not giving a **** about its consumers and merchandise. All joking aside, what lie? nospam's actions are totally in all respects disingenuous. There can be zero dispute that as soon as any ex 'filtered person' does one thing to confuse the poor daisy's feelings that they will be blocked again. Char Jackson obviously has a _lot_ of know-how to teach and he could learn to provide screencasts to help others. Sadly this is I think the least appropriate venue for doing that because much of response is howling, misleading and other nonsense.

--
Top 15 Ways nospam Trolls
Automate Google Groups https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hYQ4...ature=youtu.be
https://www.facebook.com/JonasEklundh
https://youtu.be/r7wys2JvBD0
Jonas Eklundh Communication
  #9  
Old February 23rd 20, 05:40 AM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Stephen Carroll - frelwizzer
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1
Default large external hard drives

On Friday, February 21, 2020 at 3:27:43 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Fri, 21 Feb 2020 19:05:53 +0000, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
wrote:

In message , Paul
writes:
J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:

[]
1. Can you tell us where you downloaded it from?
1a. Does it only work on WD drives?
2. Would it also get round whatever size limit Windows 7 has?

https://downloads.wdc.com/wdapp/WD_Q...r_2.0.0.65.zip


1. Thanks.

https://support-en.wd.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/16241

[]
I tried it out. It won't accept a WDC drive on a generic USB
controller. It must be intended specifically for Passport
or MyBook or similar products.


1a. Thanks - looks like it might even be only for _some_ WD drives.
[]
(And thanks for the rest, too.)


I didn't see that he tried the Disk Administration tool to delete and
add the partition. That might have fixed it. I have had strange
problems with big drives fixed that way and I never really cared why.




-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

In article , Steve
Carroll wrote:

Sandman:
http://usenet.sandman.net/misc/postingtimes/Snit/Flooding It doesn't show what
interval the script is run at, but how he has used it, at least in
the beginning. I stopped logging it this way back in may


From what I've personally looked at, it looks like it's all over the
map.


Yes, with obvious scripted sessions. Not saying some of it isn't manual.

Sandman:
Maybe I'll update it


What would it take to do that?


For "later" to occur!

http://usenet.sandman.net/misc/postingtimes/Snit/Flooding

That's a running tally of Snit's non-sock posts and his flooding during the
last month. It'll update automatically and always show the last two months.


-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.12 (GNU/Linux)

iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJZyKjaAAoJECFEwfBaA+jR4QEIAIWE3GfOGn nxynLfUhRnWv+l
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-
Eight things to never feed your dog!
https://www.google.com/search?q=pres...+is+ the+best
http://tinyurl.com/gsleb4p
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ZNxaaKD7-c
Jonas Eklundh Communication
  #10  
Old February 23rd 20, 10:39 AM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Steve Carroll - fretwizzen 4836
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1
Default large external hard drives

On Saturday, February 22, 2020 at 5:43:11 AM UTC-7, Dee wrote:
Paul wrote in
:

J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
In message , Dee
writes:
I recently bought a WD Elements 2 TB external drive. Win XP SP 3
was able to see the drive but was not able to format it to make
it usable. I had to download the WD Quick Formatter tool which
then formatted the drive in about a minute. The drive is now
recognized and is able to be used.

My question is, would this also work with a larger 4 or 5 TB
drive?

Thanks.

1. Can you tell us where you downloaded it from?
1a. Does it only work on WD drives?
2. Would it also get round whatever size limit Windows 7 has?


https://downloads.wdc.com/wdapp/WD_Q...r_2.0.0.65.zip


I used an older version, WD_Quick_Formatter_Win_1_2_0_10.zip, because
I wasn't sure that the lastest version would work on XP.

*******

I tried it out. It won't accept a WDC drive on a generic USB
controller. It must be intended specifically for Passport
or MyBook or similar products.

I found a claim, that some WDC products (could be those 5TB drives
with the USB connector right on the controller board), they may
be presenting 4Kn sectors to the OS. WinXP might not know how
to format such an item. The QuickFormatter might solve the
problem. However, I don't know how or if addressing from WinXP
works properly for that. The MBR may specify a 32bit number, and
by the controller on the drive using "fake" 4Kn sectors, the 32
bit number can represent drive sizes up to 16TB. But when the OS
goes to write to the 16TB volume, it must be aware the sectors
on the drive are 4K each. And will WinXP countenance such a
situation ? It's not clear from this what would happen.


This was what I had read too, something about removing the GPT and
making it MBR only, and something about 4K size to get around the XP
limitation.


https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/win...book/advanced-
format--4k--disk-compatibility-update?redirectedfrom=MSDN

This may be why the WD QuickFormatter exists, but I can't really
be certain. It's to cover the "non-standard" information the
USB interfaces on such drives present to the OS. You would
have to do more digging, to get a report of what logical
and physical sectors the drive is presenting, and how
it's possible via USB for that to not be a problem
(on WinXP, Vista, or Win7 - as Win8 and Win10 eventually
supported 4Kn for sure).

Even if you use the WD QuickFormatter, there is no particular
reason that any Partition Management software need work
properly. PowerQuest Partition Magic for example, does
not accept any shenanigans at all when it comes to such
issues. It's simply going to exit and tell you it won't
touch such a drive. There may be other programs that
will (eventually) decide they can't help you either.

This might also be why the drive only wants one partition
on there - it might have something to do with alignment,
or with the details of the "abomination" used to write
to the drive.


Yes, and one partition is fine for my usage.


The drive should be fine for the intended purpose, of supporting
writes from backup software.

Paul


Thanks, Paul. It sounds like it would work for a larger drive as
well, then.

Dee




With no support at all, as is expected for Wolffan. Linux offers the least of everything to the average user. I see you are electing to bask in Wolffan's domain of puppets and deep state ops over a discussion that would have been a bit more 'interesting'. There are increasingly fewer reasons to come to Usenet and a lack of empathy like this puts a spotlight on why that is true.

When I was not seeking approval of the herd, I wanted to be equitable and unbiased. I gave Wolffan more than a rational person should. And you _do_ realize that it isn't impossible for Wolffan to be doing this, or paying others to do so. I have a number of reasons for believing the flooder is Wolffan, who is a bash scripter but I don't know if it could be used to spam like this.

--
One Smart Penny!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ZNxaaKD7-c
http://tinyurl.com/kmqe66h
Jonas Eklundh
 




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