If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below. |
|
|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#1
|
|||
|
|||
Maybe OT modem question.
I have a dual core XP machine and my dial up connection stopped
working. I have tried 3 different Win Modems. The modems install OK and the diagnostics say it is connecting OK but when I try dialing out, I get the message that there is no dial tone. That phone wire works in a phone (same wire that plugs into the modem) I can also plug a phone into the other port on the modem and dial out through it. I tried swapping ports to be sure it wasn't just labeled wrong. There is no activity on the line when I listen from another phone. Any ideas? |
Ads |
#2
|
|||
|
|||
Maybe OT modem question.
wrote:
I have a dual core XP machine and my dial up connection stopped working. I have tried 3 different Win Modems. The modems install OK and the diagnostics say it is connecting OK but when I try dialing out, I get the message that there is no dial tone. That phone wire works in a phone (same wire that plugs into the modem) I can also plug a phone into the other port on the modem and dial out through it. I tried swapping ports to be sure it wasn't just labeled wrong. There is no activity on the line when I listen from another phone. Any ideas? You only get dial tone, when a circuit goes "Off Hook". "The POTS phone line, with all phones on-hook, should measure around 48 volts DC. Taking a phone off-hook creates a DC signal path across the pair, which is detected as loop current back at the central office. This drops the voltage measured at the phone down to about 3 to 9 volts. " So if that loop current isn't flowing, then the CO may not notice you are there. There's a tolerance on that, and if your device is out of spec, you might not get recognized properly. Generally, you want to review what is plugged into your phone circuits. Back home, someone plugged in a strobe light which functions as a visual ringer for the basement, and that device caused a problem with hook state. The phone line has a limit on the number of loads. You start unplugging toys your family has added, until the phone works again :-) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ringer_equivalence_number "Subscriber telephone lines are usually limited to support a load of 5 REN or less." It's possible that's just for ringing issues. (I.e. Connect 6 REN, and nothing is ringing, because the ringing generator is overloaded at the CO line drawer.) ******* See the table here for a possible explanation. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modular_connector "The pins of the 6P6C connector are numbered 1 to 6" 1 2 3 4 5 6 1 1 --- circuit one, is the middle pair 2 2 --- circuit two, is outside that 3 3 --- circuit three Normally, the installer is going to put the circuit on pins 3,4. But just in case the circuit is moved to the other pair at the punchdown block, then you could use an adapter like this. https://www.amazon.ca/Steren-4-Condu.../dp/B000E9U9MG If all the phones are "line 1 phones", then they will be sampling 3,4 when plugged in. To get the other circuits to one of those phones, the adapter does the passive re-wiring so a signal shows up. 3,4 2,5 1,6 Wall (one connector, all six wires) 3,4 3,4 3,4 Holes on output (L1) (L2) (L3) Then, all these phones that work off the 3,4 pins, they can be plugged into some hole and they work. And that's because the lineX output, is wired to one of the various line pairs on the input side. Those adapters aren't worth more than a buck or two, so please don't tell me you paid $50 for a sample :-) Even Radio Shack would have given you a better price than the ones on that Amazon page. And while the article details three lines being on an RJ11 six pin, in practice I think the neighborhood wiring is designed to run two lines per household easily. If they run a four wire cable to your six pin RJ11, there might be a Line1 and Line2. Maybe you ordered a line for the phone, and one for the fax machine or something. It would be more unusual for a house to have Line1, Line2, Line3. If every house did that, there might not be enough wires on the pole out in back of the house for it. I think I have one of those wall adapters here somewhere. But it's a Line1/Line2 two-holer. I only own the thing, for the situation you're in, namely, seeing if the active pair has been moved to the wrong pins, via a wiring change at the punchdown block at the corner of your street. Normally the installers don't do stuff like that by accident, but I did have a dude out back of my house one day "stealing my pair" for an order, and giving me some other pair. I wasn't doing a download at the time, and I caught him in the yard, before he'd cut anything. Paul |
#3
|
|||
|
|||
Maybe OT modem question.
On Sat, 26 Aug 2017 03:29:10 -0400, Paul
wrote: wrote: I have a dual core XP machine and my dial up connection stopped working. I have tried 3 different Win Modems. The modems install OK and the diagnostics say it is connecting OK but when I try dialing out, I get the message that there is no dial tone. That phone wire works in a phone (same wire that plugs into the modem) I can also plug a phone into the other port on the modem and dial out through it. I tried swapping ports to be sure it wasn't just labeled wrong. There is no activity on the line when I listen from another phone. Any ideas? You only get dial tone, when a circuit goes "Off Hook". "The POTS phone line, with all phones on-hook, should measure around 48 volts DC. Taking a phone off-hook creates a DC signal path across the pair, which is detected as loop current back at the central office. This drops the voltage measured at the phone down to about 3 to 9 volts. " So if that loop current isn't flowing, then the CO may not notice you are there. There's a tolerance on that, and if your device is out of spec, you might not get recognized properly. Generally, you want to review what is plugged into your phone circuits. Back home, someone plugged in a strobe light which functions as a visual ringer for the basement, and that device caused a problem with hook state. The phone line has a limit on the number of loads. You start unplugging toys your family has added, until the phone works again :-) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ringer_equivalence_number "Subscriber telephone lines are usually limited to support a load of 5 REN or less." It's possible that's just for ringing issues. (I.e. Connect 6 REN, and nothing is ringing, because the ringing generator is overloaded at the CO line drawer.) ******* See the table here for a possible explanation. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modular_connector "The pins of the 6P6C connector are numbered 1 to 6" 1 2 3 4 5 6 1 1 --- circuit one, is the middle pair 2 2 --- circuit two, is outside that 3 3 --- circuit three Normally, the installer is going to put the circuit on pins 3,4. But just in case the circuit is moved to the other pair at the punchdown block, then you could use an adapter like this. https://www.amazon.ca/Steren-4-Condu.../dp/B000E9U9MG If all the phones are "line 1 phones", then they will be sampling 3,4 when plugged in. To get the other circuits to one of those phones, the adapter does the passive re-wiring so a signal shows up. 3,4 2,5 1,6 Wall (one connector, all six wires) 3,4 3,4 3,4 Holes on output (L1) (L2) (L3) Then, all these phones that work off the 3,4 pins, they can be plugged into some hole and they work. And that's because the lineX output, is wired to one of the various line pairs on the input side. Those adapters aren't worth more than a buck or two, so please don't tell me you paid $50 for a sample :-) Even Radio Shack would have given you a better price than the ones on that Amazon page. And while the article details three lines being on an RJ11 six pin, in practice I think the neighborhood wiring is designed to run two lines per household easily. If they run a four wire cable to your six pin RJ11, there might be a Line1 and Line2. Maybe you ordered a line for the phone, and one for the fax machine or something. It would be more unusual for a house to have Line1, Line2, Line3. If every house did that, there might not be enough wires on the pole out in back of the house for it. I think I have one of those wall adapters here somewhere. But it's a Line1/Line2 two-holer. I only own the thing, for the situation you're in, namely, seeing if the active pair has been moved to the wrong pins, via a wiring change at the punchdown block at the corner of your street. Normally the installers don't do stuff like that by accident, but I did have a dude out back of my house one day "stealing my pair" for an order, and giving me some other pair. I wasn't doing a download at the time, and I caught him in the yard, before he'd cut anything. Paul Thanks Paul but if I plug this cable into a regular phone it goes off hook and I can dial so I am pretty sure it is wired OK. Also this used to work. |
#4
|
|||
|
|||
Maybe OT modem question.
|
#5
|
|||
|
|||
Maybe OT modem question.
JJ wrote:
On Sat, 26 Aug 2017 01:39:06 -0400, wrote: I have a dual core XP machine and my dial up connection stopped working. I have tried 3 different Win Modems. The modems install OK and the diagnostics say it is connecting OK but when I try dialing out, I get the message that there is no dial tone. That phone wire works in a phone (same wire that plugs into the modem) I can also plug a phone into the other port on the modem and dial out through it. I tried swapping ports to be sure it wasn't just labeled wrong. There is no activity on the line when I listen from another phone. Any ideas? If I'm not mistaken, land line telephone system has more than one standard. Similar like TV signal standards e.g. NTSC-only or PAL-only on old TVs, except that most TV nowadays support both standards. Or 110V vs 220V power source standard in countries. Phones/faxes/modems only support one standard, AFAIK. If this is the case, perhaps your modems aren't built for the phone system used in your country. It's true that standards differ *between countries*, but a consistent standard is used within a single country. Battery in North America is nominal -48V. Battery in Brazil is -80V. The thresholds for off-hook will differ too, from country to country. There were two standards for digital data samples. ulaw and Alaw. One used in North America, one used in Europe. This is a scheme for dynamic range compression, using a limited number of bits in a voice sample, to give what is effectively more bits of resolution to handle the dynamic range of a call. But within a single country, all the equipment works to the same standard. When they make the chip for the Line Cards (for POTS), the chip is fully programmable at the register level. It handles on the order of 20 different configurations that cover the entire world. They don't have to change cards because they're in Brazil, and one design handles everything. You just have to program it correctly before turning it on. You can program it for Brazil, or you can program it for North America. This makes the equipment using the card, "universal". If a business has a PABX (private automatic branch exchange), the interface on that can be custom. A different connector might be used in the cubicle. Normally there will be warnings about plugging consumer gear into it. So not every telephony problem has a simple solution. But at least for consumers, normally you're dealing with telco interfaces, and they're all using the same standard. A technician can wring out a telco line remotely, to get some idea if the line is wet or whatever. And then file a trouble ticket if line maintenance is required. At the consumer end, you can do your part by re-wiring the telephone. For example, my in-home wiring had a corrosion problem with the receptacles near the carpeting. I went downstairs, and disconnected that network at the demarc. I got some four-wire cable at my (only) electronics store (not a Radio Shack), bored a hole in the floor in a closet, and ran a wire up to the computer room from the demarc. Then, I had flawless telephony and my problem was solved, and all without a $99 truck roll with Bell. Many of the problems with POTS, are in your house, and not actually a problem on the pole. My network here, used to consist of buried cable from the CO to the corner of my street. And elevated phone wires on poles, from the corner to each house, following the right-of-way provided for utilities on the back property line. Since the advent of fiber optic transmission (replacing the fat copper wire bundle, with a slim fiber to the same Central Office), the failure rate is a lot lower. The fat bundle of wires, needed to be "dried" at regular intervals. A phone truck would show up with cylinders of dry nitrogen gas, to flush the underground line. Once fiber equipment replaced the punchdown blocks and pedestals at the end of the street, reliability went up. And the five hundred foot run of elevated wire, seems to be quite good. Paul |
#7
|
|||
|
|||
Maybe OT modem question.
wrote:
On Sun, 27 Aug 2017 00:15:39 +0700, JJ wrote: On Sat, 26 Aug 2017 01:39:06 -0400, wrote: I have a dual core XP machine and my dial up connection stopped working. I have tried 3 different Win Modems. The modems install OK and the diagnostics say it is connecting OK but when I try dialing out, I get the message that there is no dial tone. That phone wire works in a phone (same wire that plugs into the modem) I can also plug a phone into the other port on the modem and dial out through it. I tried swapping ports to be sure it wasn't just labeled wrong. There is no activity on the line when I listen from another phone. Any ideas? If I'm not mistaken, land line telephone system has more than one standard. Similar like TV signal standards e.g. NTSC-only or PAL-only on old TVs, except that most TV nowadays support both standards. Or 110V vs 220V power source standard in countries. Phones/faxes/modems only support one standard, AFAIK. If this is the case, perhaps your modems aren't built for the phone system used in your country. This is all USA stuff made for POTS phone lines. I don't recollect any Hayes AT command set items that control the electrical standard. I would expect when you buy a product, it's designed for the country you are in. (A US purchase for US POTS standards.) I'm trying to remember now, how I debugged my dialup modem. I recollect I was able to snag all the AT commands that were sent to it. Looking through some old messages, I was using "portmon". https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/sys...nloads/portmon But since you're not getting dial tone, I don't think the dialing string makes any difference to that. Paul |
#8
|
|||
|
|||
Maybe OT modem question.
On Sun, 27 Aug 2017 04:15:53 -0400, Paul
wrote: wrote: On Sun, 27 Aug 2017 00:15:39 +0700, JJ wrote: On Sat, 26 Aug 2017 01:39:06 -0400, wrote: I have a dual core XP machine and my dial up connection stopped working. I have tried 3 different Win Modems. The modems install OK and the diagnostics say it is connecting OK but when I try dialing out, I get the message that there is no dial tone. That phone wire works in a phone (same wire that plugs into the modem) I can also plug a phone into the other port on the modem and dial out through it. I tried swapping ports to be sure it wasn't just labeled wrong. There is no activity on the line when I listen from another phone. Any ideas? If I'm not mistaken, land line telephone system has more than one standard. Similar like TV signal standards e.g. NTSC-only or PAL-only on old TVs, except that most TV nowadays support both standards. Or 110V vs 220V power source standard in countries. Phones/faxes/modems only support one standard, AFAIK. If this is the case, perhaps your modems aren't built for the phone system used in your country. This is all USA stuff made for POTS phone lines. I don't recollect any Hayes AT command set items that control the electrical standard. I would expect when you buy a product, it's designed for the country you are in. (A US purchase for US POTS standards.) I'm trying to remember now, how I debugged my dialup modem. I recollect I was able to snag all the AT commands that were sent to it. Looking through some old messages, I was using "portmon". https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/sys...nloads/portmon But since you're not getting dial tone, I don't think the dialing string makes any difference to that. Paul I have not played with it any more but my next plan is to run a different wire to another phone outlet. I have used the XP connection wizard and the AOL dial up tool. Usually AOL seemed to be the most inclusive because they designed the interface for just about any modem you threw at it back when dial up was the way you connected. My problem right now is this machine is in a piece of furniture so things are hard to get to. I am going to assume there is a problem on the phone line side that does not show up with a butt set. I have a 50' silver cord I am going to try next. I can get to the Dmark with from here with that. |
#9
|
|||
|
|||
Maybe OT modem question.
wrote:
On Sun, 27 Aug 2017 04:15:53 -0400, Paul wrote: wrote: On Sun, 27 Aug 2017 00:15:39 +0700, JJ wrote: On Sat, 26 Aug 2017 01:39:06 -0400, wrote: I have a dual core XP machine and my dial up connection stopped working. I have tried 3 different Win Modems. The modems install OK and the diagnostics say it is connecting OK but when I try dialing out, I get the message that there is no dial tone. That phone wire works in a phone (same wire that plugs into the modem) I can also plug a phone into the other port on the modem and dial out through it. I tried swapping ports to be sure it wasn't just labeled wrong. There is no activity on the line when I listen from another phone. Any ideas? If I'm not mistaken, land line telephone system has more than one standard. Similar like TV signal standards e.g. NTSC-only or PAL-only on old TVs, except that most TV nowadays support both standards. Or 110V vs 220V power source standard in countries. Phones/faxes/modems only support one standard, AFAIK. If this is the case, perhaps your modems aren't built for the phone system used in your country. This is all USA stuff made for POTS phone lines. I don't recollect any Hayes AT command set items that control the electrical standard. I would expect when you buy a product, it's designed for the country you are in. (A US purchase for US POTS standards.) I'm trying to remember now, how I debugged my dialup modem. I recollect I was able to snag all the AT commands that were sent to it. Looking through some old messages, I was using "portmon". https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/sys...nloads/portmon But since you're not getting dial tone, I don't think the dialing string makes any difference to that. Paul I have not played with it any more but my next plan is to run a different wire to another phone outlet. I have used the XP connection wizard and the AOL dial up tool. Usually AOL seemed to be the most inclusive because they designed the interface for just about any modem you threw at it back when dial up was the way you connected. My problem right now is this machine is in a piece of furniture so things are hard to get to. I am going to assume there is a problem on the phone line side that does not show up with a butt set. I have a 50' silver cord I am going to try next. I can get to the Dmark with from here with that. Could any thing else on that machine be using the phone modem? When you can get to the machine try a different slot. |
#10
|
|||
|
|||
Maybe OT modem question.
|
#11
|
|||
|
|||
Maybe OT modem question.
On Sun, 27 Aug 2017 13:57:46 -0500, Paul in Houston TX wrote: wrote: On Sun, 27 Aug 2017 04:15:53 -0400, Paul wrote: wrote: On Sun, 27 Aug 2017 00:15:39 +0700, JJ wrote: On Sat, 26 Aug 2017 01:39:06 -0400, wrote: I have a dual core XP machine and my dial up connection stopped working. I have tried 3 different Win Modems. The modems install OK and the diagnostics say it is connecting OK but when I try dialing out, I get the message that there is no dial tone. That phone wire works in a phone (same wire that plugs into the modem) I can also plug a phone into the other port on the modem and dial out through it. I tried swapping ports to be sure it wasn't just labeled wrong. There is no activity on the line when I listen from another phone. Any ideas? If I'm not mistaken, land line telephone system has more than one standard. Similar like TV signal standards e.g. NTSC-only or PAL-only on old TVs, except that most TV nowadays support both standards. Or 110V vs 220V power source standard in countries. Phones/faxes/modems only support one standard, AFAIK. If this is the case, perhaps your modems aren't built for the phone system used in your country. This is all USA stuff made for POTS phone lines. I don't recollect any Hayes AT command set items that control the electrical standard. I would expect when you buy a product, it's designed for the country you are in. (A US purchase for US POTS standards.) I'm trying to remember now, how I debugged my dialup modem. I recollect I was able to snag all the AT commands that were sent to it. Looking through some old messages, I was using "portmon". https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/sys...nloads/portmon But since you're not getting dial tone, I don't think the dialing string makes any difference to that. Paul I have not played with it any more but my next plan is to run a different wire to another phone outlet. I have used the XP connection wizard and the AOL dial up tool. Usually AOL seemed to be the most inclusive because they designed the interface for just about any modem you threw at it back when dial up was the way you connected. My problem right now is this machine is in a piece of furniture so things are hard to get to. I am going to assume there is a problem on the phone line side that does not show up with a butt set. I have a 50' silver cord I am going to try next. I can get to the Dmark with from here with that. Could any thing else on that machine be using the phone modem? When you can get to the machine try a different slot. This only has one available slot and a modem came out of it. I did try putting it on another com port. XP says I am using 6 of them and I really can only identify one. (the built in serial port) I do not have the cable to use it tho. I have some DB9 to header cables but the pin outs are different. I am curious if a stand alone modem will work but it means making up a cable. I am still not sure why it thinks 6 are in use. A am also not sure how to release them |
#12
|
|||
|
|||
Maybe OT modem question.
On Sun, 27 Aug 2017 12:40:20 -0700, Mike Easter
wrote: wrote: I have a dual core XP machine and my dial up connection stopped working. I have tried 3 different Win Modems. What hardware are these winmodems? Are they all the same kind of slot such as PCI or are any USB? They are all PCI of 3 different brands. |
#13
|
|||
|
|||
Maybe OT modem question.
wrote:
Mike Easter wrote: wrote: I have a dual core XP machine and my dial up connection stopped working. I have tried 3 different Win Modems. What hardware are these winmodems? Are they all the same kind of slot such as PCI or are any USB? They are all PCI of 3 different brands. I'm reading about people 'twiddling' the XP/ CP/ setting for wait for dial tone before dialing to off (and/or back on); I'm also reading that some people benefit from changing out the phone cord connection (bad connector). -- Mike Easter |
#14
|
|||
|
|||
Maybe OT modem question.
On Sun, 27 Aug 2017 14:20:40 -0700, Mike Easter
wrote: wrote: Mike Easter wrote: wrote: I have a dual core XP machine and my dial up connection stopped working. I have tried 3 different Win Modems. What hardware are these winmodems? Are they all the same kind of slot such as PCI or are any USB? They are all PCI of 3 different brands. I'm reading about people 'twiddling' the XP/ CP/ setting for wait for dial tone before dialing to off (and/or back on); I'm also reading that some people benefit from changing out the phone cord connection (bad connector). The main reason I do not suspect the phone cable is I can plug a phone into the phone side of the modem and dial out. I am starting to wonder whether I am missing a voltage from the PS. I seem to remember back in the olden days that the -12v was only used for the serial port and maybe a modem uses it too. I am running the Intel monitor for the system board and it is not flagging any errors. |
#15
|
|||
|
|||
Maybe OT modem question.
|
|
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|