New monitor

Wolffan wrote:
My old main monitor is getting elderly. I need a new one. I’m thinking of
getting something in the 27 to 35 inch range (40� will be too large for
where my monitor is, and I don’t want to move my entire setup). I need at
least three HDMI (or two HDMI and a DVI or Display Port) ports. More ports
would be a plus. Headset ports, either dual 3.5mm ports or USB, would be
nice. It should be at least 1920x1080, higher res would be nice. I don’t
care about curved/not curved, either is good. I don’t care about bezel
size. I don’t care about VESA. I do care, deeply, about good colour
response, and those three ports, as the monitor must talk to three machines.

Anyone have any suggestions?


Don't forget to check the video card, for the ability to
drive your amazing new monitor. You don't necessarily want
to get suckered into buying a new video card too.

The "version number" of the HDMI or DisplayPort output on
your video devices, matters. You don't want to get stuck
trying to run a 4K monitor, at only 30Hz, because of
a video card problem. The Wikipedia articles usually have
some tables for this stuff. The very latest standard
number, could well still be vaporware at the store.

I've only got the one video card here, that I could
trust in such a scenario. The machine I'm typing on,
it'll reach 1920x1200 or so max, and any attempt to
slap a fancy monitor on here, costs me a new video card.

Whereas my newer video card, I think it just barely covers
4K @ 60Hz. If you want 5K or 8K monitors, you'll need
a pretty new card, and at the price of such, it likely
won't matter all that much. It's when you're trying to
stay on a budget, the "new video card gets you".

Paul

Paul wrote:

Peter Jason wrote:
Wolffan wrote:

My old main monitor is getting elderly. I need a new one. I’m
thinking of getting something in the 27 to 35 inch range (40”
will be too large for where my monitor is, and I don’t want to
move my entire setup). I need at least three HDMI (or two HDMI
and a DVI or Display Port) ports. More ports would be a plus.
Headset ports, either dual 3.5mm ports or USB, would be nice. It
should be at least 1920x1080, higher res would be nice. I don’t
care about curved/not curved, either is good. I don’t care about
bezel size. I don’t care about VESA. I do care, deeply, about
good colour response, and those three ports, as the monitor must
talk to three machines.

Anyone have any suggestions?

I would get to see some new one working. Mine has trouble
displaying the fine/faint lines in Goggle search boxes and in
Bitorrent.

Is your monitor running native resolution, with 100% normal size ?

If you're running at 150%, try switching up to 200% and see what
that looks like for a moment.

It would help if they made better color choices for these things.
Or even if a line was made two pixels wide, instead of one pixel
wide.

If you use Chrome, you can customize almost anything on any webpage by
using the add-on "Stylebot". Don't leave home without it. Helps to use
the Chrome "Inspect" tool in combination with Stylebot. Changing the
style, color, and size of fonts is easy.



Disclaimer: Big companies like Google are evil.

On Wed, 27 May 2020 at 00:52:09, John Doe
wrote:
Rene Lamontagne wrote:

Char Jackson wrote:
[]
I used to use an HDMI switch with 3 inputs and 1 output. It
[]
That sounds like a great solution. :-)

Assuming it's legitimate, no reason to believe otherwise, Yeah
"greatly expanding the possibilities" would be an understatement.

The monitor doesn't "talk" it just listens.

Is that entirely true? I know little of HDMI, but even in the VGA days
(possibly only later variants - SVGA, XVGA; I don't know if those just
referred to resolution, or more) the monitor did communicate to some
extent: led to some aspect of hug and pray. I don't know if they
actually told the graphics card what resolutions and refresh rates they
could handle, or just said what model number they were and relied on a
table in Windows (possibly augmented by a "driver", which would just be
additions to that table!) to know which models could do what
combinations, or somewhere in between.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Ask not for whom the bell tolls; let the machine get it

On Tue, 26 May 2020 at 23:00:10, Paul wrote:
Wolffan wrote:
My old main monitor is getting elderly. I need a new one. I’m
[]
VESA. I do care, deeply, about good colour response, and those three
[]
Don't forget to check the video card, for the ability to
drive your amazing new monitor. You don't necessarily want
to get suckered into buying a new video card too.

Good point! But ...

The "version number" of the HDMI or DisplayPort output on
your video devices, matters. You don't want to get stuck
trying to run a 4K monitor, at only 30Hz, because of
a video card problem. The Wikipedia articles usually have
[]
.... depending on what the intended use is, refresh rate may be less of a
concern than it once was.

If you're a gamer (of moving-type rather than strategy/card etc. games),
then it _is_ important. If you'll be watching video, then 60 (NTSC) 50
(rest) is sufficient for most material, as that's what it's made at.
(Some HD and ultra might be higher: check.)

Wolffan said colour was important, but didn't say why. If it's for
photography or artwork, then refresh rate is more or less unimportant.

The reason I say it's less important than it once was is the change in
technology: in the days of CRTs, the video signal was also the light
source - meaning low refresh rate caused flicker. Different people had
different susceptibility (we had some computer system - pre-PCs! - that
could be switched to either 50 or 60, which made little difference to
me, but some colleagues found the 60 much better for them). But now, the
light source is _not_ the video signal beam, but is a constant, either
fluorescent tube or LED, backlight. (Unless you're going for OLED!)
Given that, the flicker does not occur. (I think even with OLEDs, they
stay on for more of the time, but I don't know that for sure - anybody?)
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Ask not for whom the bell tolls; let the machine get it

On Wed, 27 May 2020 06:37:26 -0000 (UTC), John Doe wrote:
If you use Chrome, you can customize almost anything on any webpage by
using the add-on "Stylebot". Don't leave home without it. Helps to use
the Chrome "Inspect" tool in combination with Stylebot. Changing the
style, color, and size of fonts is easy.

For both Chrome and Firefox, Ctrl+plus and Ctrl+minus are worth
trying first. They won't change fonts or colors, just font size, but
if that's enough for readability then that's one less add-in needed.

--
Stan Brown, Tehachapi, California, USA
https://BrownMath.com/
https://OakRoadSystems.com/
Shikata ga nai...

In article ,

J. P. Gilliver (John) says...

Is that entirely true?

There is two way communication between hdmi connected devices.
When I connect an external monitor to this laptop it correctly
identifies manufacturer, model number and capabilites and outputs at the
native resolution of the monitor without any user intervention.
As does my 4K LG TV if I connect that, though at 3840x2160 things are a
bit small even on a 49" screen.

Surprisingly (to me) this also works if I connect them via my AV
receiver. Plus the receiver also identifies devices connected to its
HDMI inputs and appears to pass this info to the TV. Pretty much plug
and play all the way.

When I get time, I intend to check if the laptop can handle the audio
transmitted from the TV via ARC, I suspect not.



--
Ken

J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
On Wed, 27 May 2020 at 00:52:09, John Doe
wrote:
Rene Lamontagne wrote:

Char Jackson wrote:
[]
I used to use an HDMI switch with 3 inputs and 1 output. It
[]
That sounds like a great solution. :-)

Assuming it's legitimate, no reason to believe otherwise, Yeah
"greatly expanding the possibilities" would be an understatement.

The monitor doesn't "talk" it just listens.

Is that entirely true? I know little of HDMI, but even in the VGA days
(possibly only later variants - SVGA, XVGA; I don't know if those just
referred to resolution, or more) the monitor did communicate to some
extent: led to some aspect of hug and pray. I don't know if they
actually told the graphics card what resolutions and refresh rates they
could handle, or just said what model number they were and relied on a
table in Windows (possibly augmented by a "driver", which would just be
additions to that table!) to know which models could do what
combinations, or somewhere in between.

VGA

12 SDA IN Serial data from monitor (EDID chip, DDC/CI) to PC
15 SCL IN Clock to monitor

Yes, it tells you the supported formats as well as clock rates HSYNC/VSYNC.
(Use entechtaiwan moninfo to dump the info.)

*******

HDMI

Pin 13 CEC Bidirectional, home theater coordination (turn off TV with remove,
BD player turns off too)

Pin 14 HDMI Ethernet Channel and Audio Return Channel (ARC)

Pin 15 SCL (IIC serial clock for DDC)
Pin 16 SDA (IIC serial data for DDC)

Pin 19 HDMI Ethernet Channel and Audio Return Channel

*******

DisplayPort

Pin 15 AUX CH (p) Auxiliary channel (positive)

Pin 17 AUX CH (n) Auxiliary channel (negative)

Some sort of replacement for existing functions.

In HDMI mode, goes back to the old way.

AUX CH+ DDC clock
AUX CH− DDC data

They all have something. The ARC one is the
most fancy of the lot. The 256 byte EDID is
pretty old-fashioned.

Paul

J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
On Tue, 26 May 2020 at 23:00:10, Paul wrote:
Wolffan wrote:
My old main monitor is getting elderly. I need a new one. I’m
[]
VESA. I do care, deeply, about good colour response, and those three
[]
Don't forget to check the video card, for the ability to
drive your amazing new monitor. You don't necessarily want
to get suckered into buying a new video card too.

Good point! But ...

The "version number" of the HDMI or DisplayPort output on
your video devices, matters. You don't want to get stuck
trying to run a 4K monitor, at only 30Hz, because of
a video card problem. The Wikipedia articles usually have
[]
... depending on what the intended use is, refresh rate may be less of a
concern than it once was.

If you're a gamer (of moving-type rather than strategy/card etc. games),
then it _is_ important. If you'll be watching video, then 60 (NTSC) 50
(rest) is sufficient for most material, as that's what it's made at.
(Some HD and ultra might be higher: check.)

Wolffan said colour was important, but didn't say why. If it's for
photography or artwork, then refresh rate is more or less unimportant.

The reason I say it's less important than it once was is the change in
technology: in the days of CRTs, the video signal was also the light
source - meaning low refresh rate caused flicker. Different people had
different susceptibility (we had some computer system - pre-PCs! - that
could be switched to either 50 or 60, which made little difference to
me, but some colleagues found the 60 much better for them). But now, the
light source is _not_ the video signal beam, but is a constant, either
fluorescent tube or LED, backlight. (Unless you're going for OLED!)
Given that, the flicker does not occur. (I think even with OLEDs, they
stay on for more of the time, but I don't know that for sure - anybody?)

At 4K, it's enough of a challenge to get 60FPS, suitable
for regular usage. Running at 30FPS, you would notice interference
(lag) with some of your activities.

Some monitors now do 144Hz, and using shutter glasses, you
can do pseudo-3D presentation with shutter glasses with
such a monitor.

And there are some monitors that go faster than that. Whether
they're TN or IPS, I don't know.

I would be pretty disappointed, if the new glass slab could
not do at least 60fps.

Paul

On 27/05/2020 02.52, John Doe wrote:
Rene Lamontagne wrote:

Char Jackson wrote:
Rene Lamontagne wrote:
Wolffan wrote:

....

Assuming it's legitimate, no reason to believe otherwise, Yeah
"greatly expanding the possibilities" would be an understatement.

The monitor doesn't "talk" it just listens.

Not correct. See EDID. The graphic cards interrogate the monitor to find
out its characteristics. Not on all the connectors standards, though.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extended_Display_Identification_Data


--
Cheers, Carlos.

On 2020-05-27 5:49 a.m., Stan Brown wrote:
On Wed, 27 May 2020 06:37:26 -0000 (UTC), John Doe wrote:
If you use Chrome, you can customize almost anything on any webpage by
using the add-on "Stylebot". Don't leave home without it. Helps to use
the Chrome "Inspect" tool in combination with Stylebot. Changing the
style, color, and size of fonts is easy.

For both Chrome and Firefox, Ctrl+plus and Ctrl+minus are worth
trying first. They won't change fonts or colors, just font size, but
if that's enough for readability then that's one less add-in needed.


Thanks Stan, that is a great , simple and very welcome fix.

Rene

Rene Lamontagne wrote:

Stan Brown wrote:
John Doe wrote:

If you use Chrome, you can customize almost anything on any
webpage by using the add-on "Stylebot". Don't leave home without
it. Helps to use the Chrome "Inspect" tool in combination with
Stylebot. Changing the style, color, and size of fonts is easy.

For both Chrome and Firefox, Ctrl+plus and Ctrl+minus are worth
trying first. They won't change fonts or colors, just font size,
but if that's enough for readability then that's one less add-in
needed.

Thanks Stan, that is a great , simple and very welcome fix.

Unless you don't want everything else on the page to be bigger.

If you just want a screen magnifier, you can use Magnifier.

Anybody who uses Chrome and doesn't use Stylebot isn't a techie.
Stylebot isn't just another add-on, it is the most useful add-on for
Chrome there is. Its basic use is pretty simple.

The only monitor that talks is a touch screen.
The context is general use, not set up.
This is nonsense...

--
"Carlos E.R." wrote:

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From: "Carlos E.R."
Newsgroups: alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.computer.workshop,alt.windows7.general
Subject: New monitor
Date: Wed, 27 May 2020 13:49:38 +0200
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On 27/05/2020 02.52, John Doe wrote:
Rene Lamontagne wrote:

Char Jackson wrote:
Rene Lamontagne wrote:
Wolffan wrote:

...

Assuming it's legitimate, no reason to believe otherwise, Yeah
"greatly expanding the possibilities" would be an understatement.

The monitor doesn't "talk" it just listens.

Not correct. See EDID. The graphic cards interrogate the monitor to find
out its characteristics. Not on all the connectors standards, though.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extended_Display_Identification_Data


--
Cheers, Carlos.

Paul wrote:

J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
John Doe wrote:

The monitor doesn't "talk" it just listens.

Is that entirely true?

In context, Yes. I don't consider walking up to somebody and saying
"Hi" to be "talking".

it tells you the supported formats as well as clock rates

That isn't necessary. Those of us who are old enough to know, know
that we didn't even depend on monitor communication for set up, until
more recently.

The poster wrote...

I do care, deeply, about good colour response, and those three
ports, as the monitor must talk to three machines.

That's referring to use, not setup. The poster doesn't require "three
ports" just so the monitors can set themselves up.

The only monitors that "talk" are touchscreen monitors (and anything
similar), not conventional monitors. Monitors are just output devices
like printers.

On Wed, 27 May 2020 08:46:14 -0500, Rene Lamontagne wrote:

On 2020-05-27 5:49 a.m., Stan Brown wrote:
On Wed, 27 May 2020 06:37:26 -0000 (UTC), John Doe wrote:
If you use Chrome, you can customize almost anything on any webpage by
using the add-on "Stylebot". Don't leave home without it. Helps to use
the Chrome "Inspect" tool in combination with Stylebot. Changing the
style, color, and size of fonts is easy.

For both Chrome and Firefox, Ctrl+plus and Ctrl+minus are worth
trying first. They won't change fonts or colors, just font size, but
if that's enough for readability then that's one less add-in needed.


Thanks Stan, that is a great , simple and very welcome fix.

Periodically I see articles on various sites giving keyboard
shortcuts for browsers, and the ones I use stick in my head. Frex, if
you close a browser tab by mistake, Ctrl+Shift+W will bring it back.



--
Stan Brown, Tehachapi, California, USA
https://BrownMath.com/
https://OakRoadSystems.com/
Shikata ga nai...

In article , John Doe
wrote:


The only monitors that "talk" are touchscreen monitors (and anything
similar), not conventional monitors. Monitors are just output devices
like printers.

false. displays can 'talk' to the host, not just for resolution and
timing, but also rotation, clut and other data, and any peripherals
plugged into the display must be able to talk to the host.