BCD and ReSizing partitions

Good day.

I think I've read that resizing a "boot" partition (the one where
Windows sits) will make a computer unbootable - somehow, when the BCD ID
of a partition is calculated, the END of the partition is included in
the calculation (or something to that effect). Is this true?

If true, who the hell thought this was a good idea? All you need to
identify a partition is the beginning sector - this is the only thing
the bootcode should be worried about - And even then, Boot.ini didn't
even worry about this, all it needed was the partition numeral. I don't
really understand BCD yet, looks complicated for no reason. Anyone can
to recommend a good BCD primer?

So lets say I do make the "boot" partition bigger, how do I fix the BCD?
I can always run the Windows 7 DVD and tell it to "repair" the computer
but I'd rather just fire-up BCDEDit and fix it that way; I just dont
know how to use it...

Also (I'm full of questions today) if I "generalize" a BCD, as per the
procedure below, will it then behave and work "through" partition resizing?

bcdedit /set {current} osdevice boot
bcdedit /set {current} device boot
bcdedit /set {bootmgr} device boot
bcdedit /set {memdiag} device boot

Bear in mind, I do not intend to have a separate "system" partition
where I assume the BCD usually sits. I indent to install various flavors
of Windows complete in their own partitions (e.g. including the boot
code and WinRE - you can do this if you point Windows to an already
existing partition while installing).

Thank you.
Best Regards,

--
! _\|/_ Sylvain /
! (o o) Member-+-David-Suzuki-Fdn/EFF/Red+Cross/Planetary-Society-+-
oO-( )-Oo Windows error 07 System price error, inadequate money spent.

"B00ze/Empire" wrote in message
...
Good day.

I think I've read that resizing a "boot" partition (the one where Windows
sits) will make a computer unbootable - somehow, when the BCD ID of a
partition is calculated, the END of the partition is included in the
calculation (or something to that effect). Is this true?



Hmmm...I'm always resizing the OS partitions on my computer with no issues.

On Mon, 6 Apr 2015 19:28:14 -0700, "Rich" wrote:



"B00ze/Empire" wrote in message
...
Good day.

I think I've read that resizing a "boot" partition (the one where Windows
sits) will make a computer unbootable - somehow, when the BCD ID of a
partition is calculated, the END of the partition is included in the
calculation (or something to that effect). Is this true?



Hmmm...I'm always resizing the OS partitions on my computer with no issues.

+1

Actually, I'm not "always resizing", but I've resized hundreds of Windows
partitions on hundreds of computers, always without any issues at all as a
result.

--

Char Jackson

On Mon, 06 Apr 2015 21:36:32 -0500, Char Jackson wrote:

On Mon, 6 Apr 2015 19:28:14 -0700, "Rich" wrote:



"B00ze/Empire" wrote in message
...
Good day.

I think I've read that resizing a "boot" partition (the one where Windows
sits) will make a computer unbootable - somehow, when the BCD ID of a
partition is calculated, the END of the partition is included in the
calculation (or something to that effect). Is this true?



Hmmm...I'm always resizing the OS partitions on my computer with no issues.

+1

Actually, I'm not "always resizing", but I've resized hundreds of Windows
partitions on hundreds of computers, always without any issues at all as a
result.

I'm not so lucky.

I can't get Explorer to show the top folder in my list of favorites any
way other than tiles.

Also, Explorer never remember the settings for viewing folders on my
Android devices (they are at KitKat).

That's all that comes to mind now.

I haven't ever tried to clear the cache (I don't even know which cache
that might be!).

--
Gene E. Bloch (Stumbling Bloch)

Here's one place you can start looking:

http://www.terabyteunlimited.com/kb/category.php?id=61

The first article details how to move boot files to C
drive and eliminate the boot partition. I would start
with that if I were going to do much with Win7. Also,
you need to know what you're working with and be
sure you have dependable software for partition work.
It sounds like you haven't actually looked at the disk
layout yet.

Note that the boot partition here is usually not the
"one where Windows sits", as it is on XP. It's an extra,
unnecessary partition that only holds boot files. I was
working on a Dell last week that has a boot partition,
then a restore partition, then Windows. If it were my
computer I'd make a disk image, move boot files to C
drive, then clean up the mess by deleting partitions 1
and 2. (No restore partition needed with disk images.)

In any case, resizing shouldn't be a problem if you
have dependable disk software. That's been talked
about here before. Watch out for freebies or OSS
options. If you do use "any old software" then be
sure you've backed up everything so that you can
get it back.

B00ze/Empire wrote on 4/6/2015 8:54 PM:
Good day.

I think I've read that resizing a "boot" partition (the one where Windows sits) will make a computer unbootable -
somehow, when the BCD ID of a partition is calculated, the END of the partition is included in the calculation (or
something to that effect). Is this true?

If true, who the hell thought this was a good idea? All you need to identify a partition is the beginning sector - this
is the only thing the bootcode should be worried about - And even then, Boot.ini didn't even worry about this, all it
needed was the partition numeral. I don't really understand BCD yet, looks complicated for no reason. Anyone can to
recommend a good BCD primer?

So lets say I do make the "boot" partition bigger, how do I fix the BCD? I can always run the Windows 7 DVD and tell it
to "repair" the computer but I'd rather just fire-up BCDEDit and fix it that way; I just dont know how to use it...

Also (I'm full of questions today) if I "generalize" a BCD, as per the procedure below, will it then behave and work
"through" partition resizing?

bcdedit /set {current} osdevice boot
bcdedit /set {current} device boot
bcdedit /set {bootmgr} device boot
bcdedit /set {memdiag} device boot

Bear in mind, I do not intend to have a separate "system" partition where I assume the BCD usually sits. I indent to
install various flavors of Windows complete in their own partitions (e.g. including the boot code and WinRE - you can do
this if you point Windows to an already existing partition while installing).

Thank you.
Best Regards,

I've always found this utility to work well.
http://www.partitionwizard.com/free-...n-manager.html
I've had no issues with anything other than the order of the partitions. If they stay in the same order and #, booting
never seems to be an issue. I once had 6 partitions (two were data folders) and I deleted one like #4. The 5th Linux
partition became #4 and it would not boot. That took some fixing.

On Mon, 6 Apr 2015 20:31:06 -0700, "Gene E. Bloch"
wrote:

On Mon, 06 Apr 2015 21:36:32 -0500, Char Jackson wrote:

On Mon, 6 Apr 2015 19:28:14 -0700, "Rich" wrote:



"B00ze/Empire" wrote in message
...
Good day.

I think I've read that resizing a "boot" partition (the one where Windows
sits) will make a computer unbootable - somehow, when the BCD ID of a
partition is calculated, the END of the partition is included in the
calculation (or something to that effect). Is this true?



Hmmm...I'm always resizing the OS partitions on my computer with no issues.

+1

Actually, I'm not "always resizing", but I've resized hundreds of Windows
partitions on hundreds of computers, always without any issues at all as a
result.

I'm not so lucky.

Perhaps, but you're plenty lucky in other ways, right?

I can't get Explorer to show the top folder in my list of favorites any
way other than tiles.

That does seem odd. Where are the favorites? I'm not sure if I use that
feature.

Also, Explorer never remember the settings for viewing folders on my
Android devices (they are at KitKat).

I'm not sure, but external devices could be a special case. It's been a long
time since I connected an Android device to a Windows PC. I move an SD
memory card back and forth, instead, which seems faster to me.

That's all that comes to mind now.

I haven't ever tried to clear the cache (I don't even know which cache
that might be!).

I'm not sure either.

Say, did you post to the right thread? ;-)

--

Char Jackson

On Tue, 07 Apr 2015 09:44:36 -0500, Char Jackson wrote:

On Mon, 6 Apr 2015 20:31:06 -0700, "Gene E. Bloch"
wrote:

On Mon, 06 Apr 2015 21:36:32 -0500, Char Jackson wrote:

On Mon, 6 Apr 2015 19:28:14 -0700, "Rich" wrote:



"B00ze/Empire" wrote in message
...
Good day.

I think I've read that resizing a "boot" partition (the one where Windows
sits) will make a computer unbootable - somehow, when the BCD ID of a
partition is calculated, the END of the partition is included in the
calculation (or something to that effect). Is this true?



Hmmm...I'm always resizing the OS partitions on my computer with no issues.

+1

Actually, I'm not "always resizing", but I've resized hundreds of Windows
partitions on hundreds of computers, always without any issues at all as a
result.

I'm not so lucky.

Perhaps, but you're plenty lucky in other ways, right?

Yes - including in the way that would have been on-topic above: I've had
no troubles with resizing partitions, except maybe for figuring out some
abstruse interfaces :-)

I can't get Explorer to show the top folder in my list of favorites any
way other than tiles.

That does seem odd. Where are the favorites? I'm not sure if I use that
feature.

They are at the top of the navigation pane in my Explorer, but I don't
recall how I got it to show. Let me look.

OK, I'm back. All I see is an item in the File menu, "Add current
location to Favorites". Perhaps if favorites is empty it doesn't show in
the Navigation pane, but if that entry is in your File menu and you
click it, that might make Favorites visible.

Also, Explorer never remember the settings for viewing folders on my
Android devices (they are at KitKat).

I'm not sure, but external devices could be a special case. It's been a long
time since I connected an Android device to a Windows PC. I move an SD
memory card back and forth, instead, which seems faster to me.

Actually KitKat is the special case. The use a different method of
access, no longer attached as a USB Mass Storage device but as a Media
Device (MTP).

Here's one discussion found by Googling for "kitkat connection to PC":

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!to...ng/mYv79PQ-Nig

Like all the other hits I see in Google, it's not very entertaining.

That's all that comes to mind now.

I haven't ever tried to clear the cache (I don't even know which cache
that might be!).

I'm not sure either.

Say, did you post to the right thread? ;-)

I'm not sure I ever have :-)

But this instance definitely seems like an error on my part. I don't
have any idea where I meant to post :-( ... or maybe :-)

My other replies are inline above.

--
Gene E. Bloch (Stumbling Bloch)

On Tue, 7 Apr 2015 12:35:36 -0700, "Gene E. Bloch"
wrote:

On Tue, 07 Apr 2015 09:44:36 -0500, Char Jackson wrote:

Say, did you post to the right thread? ;-)

I'm not sure I ever have :-)

Thanks, that made me laugh. :-)

--

Char Jackson

On 2015-04-06 20:54, B00ze/Empire wrote:

Good day.

I think I've read that resizing a "boot" partition (the one where
Windows sits) will make a computer unbootable - somehow, when the BCD ID
of a partition is calculated, the END of the partition is included in
the calculation (or something to that effect). Is this true?

Thank you everyone who replied they've resized their "boot" partitions
with no issues. Maybe the BCD isn't as evil as I was led to believe ;-)

Best Regards,

--
! _\|/_ Sylvain /
! (o o) Member-+-David-Suzuki-Fdn/EFF/Red+Cross/Planetary-Society-+-
oO-( )-Oo Borg virus detected - (A)ssimilate? (Y/y/y)

Good day to you.

On 2015-04-07 08:40, Mayayana wrote:

Here's one place you can start looking:
http://www.terabyteunlimited.com/kb/category.php?id=61

That's the boot manager I am interested in - if it doesn't need a FAT32
partition and can hide partitions I'll be happy with it. [reads KB] Ah!
You need to unload the BCD from the registry, didn't expect that...

The first article details how to move boot files to C
drive and eliminate the boot partition. I would start
with that if I were going to do much with Win7.

I think you can make Windows Setup NOT create the "system" partition if
you point it to an existing partition when installing (and hide
everything else, say with GDISK).

you need to know what you're working with and be
sure you have dependable software for partition work.
It sounds like you haven't actually looked at the disk
layout yet.

It's for a future system. Disk layout will be 4 primary partitions on
the SSD with multiple Windoze versions (7/32,7/64,10) and perhaps some
flavor of Linux on the last partition.

Note that the boot partition here is usually not the
"one where Windows sits", as it is on XP. It's an extra,
unnecessary partition that only holds boot files.

That's Microsoft for you. The "boot" partition (see the "boot" flag in
Disk Management) -is- the one with Windoze on it, the other one
Microsoft decided to call it the "system" partition. Totally confusing.
My preferred partition manager (since evil Symantec killed PowerQuest)
is Partition Wizard, and it calls the boot partition system and the
system partition boot, just to make things nicer for the unwary.

working on a Dell last week that has a boot partition,
then a restore partition, then Windows. If it were my
computer I'd make a disk image, move boot files to C
drive, then clean up the mess by deleting partitions 1
and 2. (No restore partition needed with disk images.)

I thank you for your KB link on TerraByte's webpage, I made a PDF of it,
good article. I kept all those crap partitions (the "system" partition
and the recovery partition) on my laptop, even tho I have ghosts of all,
but I have no intention of wasting precious partitions on my future
desktop (Don't want UEFI boot so can't use GPT).

In any case, resizing shouldn't be a problem if you
have dependable disk software. That's been talked
about here before. Watch out for freebies or OSS
options. If you do use "any old software" then be
sure you've backed up everything so that you can
get it back.

Information around this on the web is totally conflicting, which is why
I asked here where the old experts hang out ;-) I would still like to
see a really good BCD white paper, but with all you's around, I can
manage without one :-)

Thanks again.
Best Regards,

--
! _\|/_ Sylvain /
! (o o) Member-+-David-Suzuki-Fdn/EFF/Red+Cross/Planetary-Society-+-
oO-( )-Oo I don't kill my enemies: I slime them! -Odo

On 2015-04-07 10:33, Big_Al wrote:

I've always found this utility to work well.
http://www.partitionwizard.com/free-...n-manager.html

Ya, that's the one I like too - lets you do all kinds of things and you
can even change partition type byte directly inside it ($07-$17-$07)
and it boots off CD. I tried another one (EaseUS) but it kept annoying
me to buy other products, wasn't as good as Partition Wizard and it even
installed a Systray icon (yessir, a Systray icon for a partition manager
- I guess some people edit their partitions daily and need a quick
shortcut).

I've had no issues with anything other than the order of the
partitions. If they stay in the same order and #, booting never seems
to be an issue. I once had 6 partitions (two were data folders) and I
deleted one like #4. The 5th Linux partition became #4 and it would not
boot. That took some fixing.

Ya, I was mislead to think resizing a partition would kill the BCD. With
Windoze installs, which keep growing and growing even with my best
efforts to prevent that (like installing everything on another
partition) I wanted to make sure I could resize if needed.

Thank you.
Best Regards,

--
! _\|/_ Sylvain /
! (o o) Member-+-David-Suzuki-Fdn/EFF/Red+Cross/Planetary-Society-+-
oO-( )-Oo Early to bed makes you healthy, wealthy and boring!

| It's for a future system. Disk layout will be 4 primary partitions on
| the SSD with multiple Windoze versions (7/32,7/64,10) and perhaps some
| flavor of Linux on the last partition.
|

One note there, which you may already know: Linux
can go on a logical partition. Under normal conditions
a disk can have 4 primaries, but one of those can be
an extended, which can hold any number of logicals.
Thus, 3 Windows, 1 Linux and as many data partitions
as you like can go on a disk.

| That's Microsoft for you. The "boot" partition (see the "boot" flag in
| Disk Management) -is- the one with Windoze on it, the other one
| Microsoft decided to call it the "system" partition. Totally confusing.

Interesting. I didn't know that.

Hi, Sylvain (?).

Note that the boot partition here is usually not the
"one where Windows sits", as it is on XP. It's an extra,
unnecessary partition that only holds boot files.

That's Microsoft for you. The "boot" partition (see the "boot" flag in
Disk Management) -is- the one with Windoze on it, the other one Microsoft
decided to call it the "system" partition. Totally confusing. My preferred
partition manager (since evil Symantec killed PowerQuest) is Partition
Wizard, and it calls the boot partition system and the system partition
boot, just to make things nicer for the unwary.

Yeah, that's one of my favorite quotes from one of Ed Bott's books a dozen
or so years ago: "Those unacquainted with such matters might think it
strange that we keep the BOOT files in the System Partition and the
operating SYSTEM files in the Boot Volume." (The quote is from my memory
and may not be exact, but that's the gist of it.)

In Win8.1, they've added another wholly unnecessary (in my opinion) source
of confusion by adding a folder named "Boot" in the C:\Windows folder tree!

C:\Windows is the "Boot Folder", which as you said contains the entire
Windows operating system folder tree. So WHY would Microsoft create a
folder named C:\Windows\Boot?

I'm only an accountant, not a techie of any kind, so maybe one of you
computer science experts can explain it to me. In (partial) defense of
Microsoft, I've been told that this counterintuitive use of the terms
"system" and "boot" predate Windows, or even Microsoft, but I haven't
verified that.

RC
--
R. C. White, CPA
San Marcos, TX

Microsoft Windows MVP (2002-2010)
Windows Live Mail 2012 (Build 16.4.3528.0331) in Win8.1 Pro w/Media Center

On Wed, 8 Apr 2015 22:03:29 -0500, R. C. White wrote:

Hi, Sylvain (?).

Note that the boot partition here is usually not the
"one where Windows sits", as it is on XP. It's an extra,
unnecessary partition that only holds boot files.

That's Microsoft for you. The "boot" partition (see the "boot" flag in
Disk Management) -is- the one with Windoze on it, the other one Microsoft
decided to call it the "system" partition. Totally confusing. My preferred
partition manager (since evil Symantec killed PowerQuest) is Partition
Wizard, and it calls the boot partition system and the system partition
boot, just to make things nicer for the unwary.

Yeah, that's one of my favorite quotes from one of Ed Bott's books a dozen
or so years ago: "Those unacquainted with such matters might think it
strange that we keep the BOOT files in the System Partition and the
operating SYSTEM files in the Boot Volume." (The quote is from my memory
and may not be exact, but that's the gist of it.)

In Win8.1, they've added another wholly unnecessary (in my opinion) source
of confusion by adding a folder named "Boot" in the C:\Windows folder tree!

C:\Windows is the "Boot Folder", which as you said contains the entire
Windows operating system folder tree. So WHY would Microsoft create a
folder named C:\Windows\Boot?

I'm only an accountant, not a techie of any kind, so maybe one of you
computer science experts can explain it to me. In (partial) defense of
Microsoft, I've been told that this counterintuitive use of the terms
"system" and "boot" predate Windows, or even Microsoft, but I haven't
verified that.

It's sort of like learning any tech jargon. Until you have learned the
terms they can be mystifying.

That said, counterintuitive choices are...well, counterintuitive. That
makes them harder to learn, but once you do you can deal with them.

Microsoft is pretty good at naming things confusingly, as we all know.
Windows Explorer vs Internet Explorer and Outlook vs Outlook Express
come to mind instantly...

--
Gene E. Bloch (Stumbling Bloch)