Computer won't boot

Hi all -

I'm trying to help some friends fixed their computer. They have a Gateway
816gm running WinXP. The issue they were having was that the computer would
just shut completely down for no reason if they were using it and then
stopped period. I pre-diagnosed this as maybe a power supply, motherboard,
or graphics card issue. So they brought the computer over and it wouldn't
boot up at all. All the fans(power supply, g/c, and processor) came after
pressing the power. However, I did not hear the hard drives or the dvd
burner spinning. The hard drive LED light on the front was a yellowish
color.

We bought a new power supply and tried it with the same results. I also
switched video cards and changed the hard drive cable and got the same
results. I'm now here looking for assistance. My next guess would be the
motherboard that's causing the problem. Is there a way to test this?

Any suggestions would greatly be appreciated.

Thanks in advance,
Wyman

Wyman wrote:
Hi all -

I'm trying to help some friends fixed their computer. They have a Gateway
816gm running WinXP. The issue they were having was that the computer would
just shut completely down for no reason if they were using it and then
stopped period. I pre-diagnosed this as maybe a power supply, motherboard,
or graphics card issue. So they brought the computer over and it wouldn't
boot up at all. All the fans(power supply, g/c, and processor) came after
pressing the power. However, I did not hear the hard drives or the dvd
burner spinning. The hard drive LED light on the front was a yellowish
color.

We bought a new power supply and tried it with the same results. I also
switched video cards and changed the hard drive cable and got the same
results. I'm now here looking for assistance. My next guess would be the
motherboard that's causing the problem. Is there a way to test this?

Any suggestions would greatly be appreciated.

Thanks in advance,
Wyman


An overheating CPU can cause the box to shut down (THERMTRIP).
An overheating or overloaded power supply can also shut down and
latch off. In cases like that, it may require toggling the main
power switch on the back, before the computer will respond to
the power button again.

Your test result tells you the power supply is not completely dead.
You've proved the logic path from the power switch to the PSU works.
You don't have measured values for all the supply rails, so there
could still be something wrong there.

I recommend reducing the hardware plugged into the computer,
and doing some "beep tests". When I suggest these, my assumption
is the computer case either has a speaker or a black piezo disk on
the motherboard, that beeps on errors.

If you remove the RAM and/or video card, that should cause the
computer to beep. (Always add or remove components, with all
power removed from the computer. Pull the cord to be sure.)
And the beep pattern requires a working processor. If you can
get some beeping, then it could be one of the items you just
removed from the computer, was dragging it down.

If it won't beep with RAM and video missing, and drives disconnected,
you're down to processor, motherboard, power supply, BIOS flash
chip and so on. Make sure the processor 2x2 ATX12V power cable
is connected. The power cables have latches on them, and their
purpose is to prevent the connector from "walking out" of its
mate. A loose connector, can actually have the pins burn on it.
Pull the power connectors and verify they're shiny and not
blackened. I've had one Molex 1x4 burn here, so it does happen.
In my case, the advanced warning was the fact that the cable
I was using, never seemed to fit right, and always required
fiddling to get it seated.

You don't mention the results of any visual inspection. Your
very first step, is to look for leaking capacitors, as the
capacitor plague from years past, involved millions of bad
capacitors. More info here on what to look for. Some Dells
were pretty hard hit on certain model numbers.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capacitor_plague

Split pressure-relief seams:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...ps-tayeh-4.jpg

Rust colored deposits:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...4/PSU_Caps.jpg

I lost a power supply, and it had the rust colored stuff on
four caps. It used to "sizzle" at startup, and after it
warmed up for a minute, might be OK for the rest of the day.
Fortunately, I stopped using it before it had a chance to
blow up or ruin stuff. (The funny thing was, the power
supply was used very little. The capacitor plague, doesn't
require stress to accelerate failure. They can fail on
their own, without help.)

Bad caps can cause collateral damage. When a cap fails short
circuit, it upsets devices driving it, and they can get burned
too. By that time, you should be smelling something...

Paul

Wyman wrote:
Hi all -

I'm trying to help some friends fixed their computer. They have a Gateway
816gm running WinXP. The issue they were having was that the computer would
just shut completely down for no reason if they were using it and then
stopped period. I pre-diagnosed this as maybe a power supply, motherboard,
or graphics card issue. So they brought the computer over and it wouldn't
boot up at all. All the fans(power supply, g/c, and processor) came after
pressing the power. However, I did not hear the hard drives or the dvd
burner spinning. The hard drive LED light on the front was a yellowish
color.

We bought a new power supply and tried it with the same results. I also
switched video cards and changed the hard drive cable and got the same
results. I'm now here looking for assistance. My next guess would be the
motherboard that's causing the problem. Is there a way to test this?

Any suggestions would greatly be appreciated.

Thanks in advance,
Wyman


An overheating CPU can cause the box to shut down (THERMTRIP).
An overheating or overloaded power supply can also shut down and
latch off. In cases like that, it may require toggling the main
power switch on the back, before the computer will respond to
the power button again.

Your test result tells you the power supply is not completely dead.
You've proved the logic path from the power switch to the PSU works.
You don't have measured values for all the supply rails, so there
could still be something wrong there.

I recommend reducing the hardware plugged into the computer,
and doing some "beep tests". When I suggest these, my assumption
is the computer case either has a speaker or a black piezo disk on
the motherboard, that beeps on errors.

If you remove the RAM and/or video card, that should cause the
computer to beep. (Always add or remove components, with all
power removed from the computer. Pull the cord to be sure.)
And the beep pattern requires a working processor. If you can
get some beeping, then it could be one of the items you just
removed from the computer, was dragging it down.

If it won't beep with RAM and video missing, and drives disconnected,
you're down to processor, motherboard, power supply, BIOS flash
chip and so on. Make sure the processor 2x2 ATX12V power cable
is connected. The power cables have latches on them, and their
purpose is to prevent the connector from "walking out" of its
mate. A loose connector, can actually have the pins burn on it.
Pull the power connectors and verify they're shiny and not
blackened. I've had one Molex 1x4 burn here, so it does happen.
In my case, the advanced warning was the fact that the cable
I was using, never seemed to fit right, and always required
fiddling to get it seated.

You don't mention the results of any visual inspection. Your
very first step, is to look for leaking capacitors, as the
capacitor plague from years past, involved millions of bad
capacitors. More info here on what to look for. Some Dells
were pretty hard hit on certain model numbers.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capacitor_plague

Split pressure-relief seams:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...ps-tayeh-4.jpg

Rust colored deposits:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...4/PSU_Caps.jpg

I lost a power supply, and it had the rust colored stuff on
four caps. It used to "sizzle" at startup, and after it
warmed up for a minute, might be OK for the rest of the day.
Fortunately, I stopped using it before it had a chance to
blow up or ruin stuff. (The funny thing was, the power
supply was used very little. The capacitor plague, doesn't
require stress to accelerate failure. They can fail on
their own, without help.)

Bad caps can cause collateral damage. When a cap fails short
circuit, it upsets devices driving it, and they can get burned
too. By that time, you should be smelling something...

Paul

"Paul" wrote:

Wyman wrote:
Hi all -

I'm trying to help some friends fixed their computer. They have a Gateway
816gm running WinXP. The issue they were having was that the computer would
just shut completely down for no reason if they were using it and then
stopped period. I pre-diagnosed this as maybe a power supply, motherboard,
or graphics card issue. So they brought the computer over and it wouldn't
boot up at all. All the fans(power supply, g/c, and processor) came after
pressing the power. However, I did not hear the hard drives or the dvd
burner spinning. The hard drive LED light on the front was a yellowish
color.

We bought a new power supply and tried it with the same results. I also
switched video cards and changed the hard drive cable and got the same
results. I'm now here looking for assistance. My next guess would be the
motherboard that's causing the problem. Is there a way to test this?

Any suggestions would greatly be appreciated.

Thanks in advance,
Wyman


An overheating CPU can cause the box to shut down (THERMTRIP).
An overheating or overloaded power supply can also shut down and
latch off. In cases like that, it may require toggling the main
power switch on the back, before the computer will respond to
the power button again.

Your test result tells you the power supply is not completely dead.
You've proved the logic path from the power switch to the PSU works.
You don't have measured values for all the supply rails, so there
could still be something wrong there.

I recommend reducing the hardware plugged into the computer,
and doing some "beep tests". When I suggest these, my assumption
is the computer case either has a speaker or a black piezo disk on
the motherboard, that beeps on errors.

If you remove the RAM and/or video card, that should cause the
computer to beep. (Always add or remove components, with all
power removed from the computer. Pull the cord to be sure.)
And the beep pattern requires a working processor. If you can
get some beeping, then it could be one of the items you just
removed from the computer, was dragging it down.

If it won't beep with RAM and video missing, and drives disconnected,
you're down to processor, motherboard, power supply, BIOS flash
chip and so on. Make sure the processor 2x2 ATX12V power cable
is connected. The power cables have latches on them, and their
purpose is to prevent the connector from "walking out" of its
mate. A loose connector, can actually have the pins burn on it.
Pull the power connectors and verify they're shiny and not
blackened. I've had one Molex 1x4 burn here, so it does happen.
In my case, the advanced warning was the fact that the cable
I was using, never seemed to fit right, and always required
fiddling to get it seated.

You don't mention the results of any visual inspection. Your
very first step, is to look for leaking capacitors, as the
capacitor plague from years past, involved millions of bad
capacitors. More info here on what to look for. Some Dells
were pretty hard hit on certain model numbers.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capacitor_plague

Split pressure-relief seams:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...ps-tayeh-4.jpg

Rust colored deposits:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...4/PSU_Caps.jpg

I lost a power supply, and it had the rust colored stuff on
four caps. It used to "sizzle" at startup, and after it
warmed up for a minute, might be OK for the rest of the day.
Fortunately, I stopped using it before it had a chance to
blow up or ruin stuff. (The funny thing was, the power
supply was used very little. The capacitor plague, doesn't
require stress to accelerate failure. They can fail on
their own, without help.)

Bad caps can cause collateral damage. When a cap fails short
circuit, it upsets devices driving it, and they can get burned
too. By that time, you should be smelling something...

Paul
.

Hi Paul -

Thanks for your reply. The power supply in the machine is brand new and
just purchased on Monday. I did plug in speakers to see if I could hear any
beeps without having the hard drive plugged in but didn't hear anything.
I'll try it without the video card and ram to see if there are any beeps.

Wyman

"Paul" wrote:

Wyman wrote:
Hi all -

I'm trying to help some friends fixed their computer. They have a Gateway
816gm running WinXP. The issue they were having was that the computer would
just shut completely down for no reason if they were using it and then
stopped period. I pre-diagnosed this as maybe a power supply, motherboard,
or graphics card issue. So they brought the computer over and it wouldn't
boot up at all. All the fans(power supply, g/c, and processor) came after
pressing the power. However, I did not hear the hard drives or the dvd
burner spinning. The hard drive LED light on the front was a yellowish
color.

We bought a new power supply and tried it with the same results. I also
switched video cards and changed the hard drive cable and got the same
results. I'm now here looking for assistance. My next guess would be the
motherboard that's causing the problem. Is there a way to test this?

Any suggestions would greatly be appreciated.

Thanks in advance,
Wyman


An overheating CPU can cause the box to shut down (THERMTRIP).
An overheating or overloaded power supply can also shut down and
latch off. In cases like that, it may require toggling the main
power switch on the back, before the computer will respond to
the power button again.

Your test result tells you the power supply is not completely dead.
You've proved the logic path from the power switch to the PSU works.
You don't have measured values for all the supply rails, so there
could still be something wrong there.

I recommend reducing the hardware plugged into the computer,
and doing some "beep tests". When I suggest these, my assumption
is the computer case either has a speaker or a black piezo disk on
the motherboard, that beeps on errors.

If you remove the RAM and/or video card, that should cause the
computer to beep. (Always add or remove components, with all
power removed from the computer. Pull the cord to be sure.)
And the beep pattern requires a working processor. If you can
get some beeping, then it could be one of the items you just
removed from the computer, was dragging it down.

If it won't beep with RAM and video missing, and drives disconnected,
you're down to processor, motherboard, power supply, BIOS flash
chip and so on. Make sure the processor 2x2 ATX12V power cable
is connected. The power cables have latches on them, and their
purpose is to prevent the connector from "walking out" of its
mate. A loose connector, can actually have the pins burn on it.
Pull the power connectors and verify they're shiny and not
blackened. I've had one Molex 1x4 burn here, so it does happen.
In my case, the advanced warning was the fact that the cable
I was using, never seemed to fit right, and always required
fiddling to get it seated.

You don't mention the results of any visual inspection. Your
very first step, is to look for leaking capacitors, as the
capacitor plague from years past, involved millions of bad
capacitors. More info here on what to look for. Some Dells
were pretty hard hit on certain model numbers.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capacitor_plague

Split pressure-relief seams:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...ps-tayeh-4.jpg

Rust colored deposits:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...4/PSU_Caps.jpg

I lost a power supply, and it had the rust colored stuff on
four caps. It used to "sizzle" at startup, and after it
warmed up for a minute, might be OK for the rest of the day.
Fortunately, I stopped using it before it had a chance to
blow up or ruin stuff. (The funny thing was, the power
supply was used very little. The capacitor plague, doesn't
require stress to accelerate failure. They can fail on
their own, without help.)

Bad caps can cause collateral damage. When a cap fails short
circuit, it upsets devices driving it, and they can get burned
too. By that time, you should be smelling something...

Paul
.

Hi Paul -

Thanks for your reply. The power supply in the machine is brand new and
just purchased on Monday. I did plug in speakers to see if I could hear any
beeps without having the hard drive plugged in but didn't hear anything.
I'll try it without the video card and ram to see if there are any beeps.

Wyman

Hi again Paul -

I did a beep test with the ram, video card, and hard drives removed and
there were no beeps. And yes the speakers were on.

So do you think it's a motherboard issue given that the power supply is
brand new? The motherboard is a MS-6741 version 1.
Here's a link to it:
http://us.msi.com/index.php?func=pro...1&prod_no=601#

Is there another motherboard similar to this one where they could get at
Best Buy or other electronics store? I've found a couple of online stores
that have this model but I'm concerned about their return policies.

Thanks again for your help.

Wyman


"Paul" wrote in message
...
Wyman wrote:
Hi all -

I'm trying to help some friends fixed their computer. They have a
Gateway 816gm running WinXP. The issue they were having was that the
computer would just shut completely down for no reason if they were using
it and then stopped period. I pre-diagnosed this as maybe a power
supply, motherboard, or graphics card issue. So they brought the
computer over and it wouldn't boot up at all. All the fans(power supply,
g/c, and processor) came after pressing the power. However, I did not
hear the hard drives or the dvd burner spinning. The hard drive LED
light on the front was a yellowish color.

We bought a new power supply and tried it with the same results. I also
switched video cards and changed the hard drive cable and got the same
results. I'm now here looking for assistance. My next guess would be
the motherboard that's causing the problem. Is there a way to test this?

Any suggestions would greatly be appreciated.

Thanks in advance,
Wyman


An overheating CPU can cause the box to shut down (THERMTRIP).
An overheating or overloaded power supply can also shut down and
latch off. In cases like that, it may require toggling the main
power switch on the back, before the computer will respond to
the power button again.

Your test result tells you the power supply is not completely dead.
You've proved the logic path from the power switch to the PSU works.
You don't have measured values for all the supply rails, so there
could still be something wrong there.

I recommend reducing the hardware plugged into the computer,
and doing some "beep tests". When I suggest these, my assumption
is the computer case either has a speaker or a black piezo disk on
the motherboard, that beeps on errors.

If you remove the RAM and/or video card, that should cause the
computer to beep. (Always add or remove components, with all
power removed from the computer. Pull the cord to be sure.)
And the beep pattern requires a working processor. If you can
get some beeping, then it could be one of the items you just
removed from the computer, was dragging it down.

If it won't beep with RAM and video missing, and drives disconnected,
you're down to processor, motherboard, power supply, BIOS flash
chip and so on. Make sure the processor 2x2 ATX12V power cable
is connected. The power cables have latches on them, and their
purpose is to prevent the connector from "walking out" of its
mate. A loose connector, can actually have the pins burn on it.
Pull the power connectors and verify they're shiny and not
blackened. I've had one Molex 1x4 burn here, so it does happen.
In my case, the advanced warning was the fact that the cable
I was using, never seemed to fit right, and always required
fiddling to get it seated.

You don't mention the results of any visual inspection. Your
very first step, is to look for leaking capacitors, as the
capacitor plague from years past, involved millions of bad
capacitors. More info here on what to look for. Some Dells
were pretty hard hit on certain model numbers.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capacitor_plague

Split pressure-relief seams:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...ps-tayeh-4.jpg

Rust colored deposits:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...4/PSU_Caps.jpg

I lost a power supply, and it had the rust colored stuff on
four caps. It used to "sizzle" at startup, and after it
warmed up for a minute, might be OK for the rest of the day.
Fortunately, I stopped using it before it had a chance to
blow up or ruin stuff. (The funny thing was, the power
supply was used very little. The capacitor plague, doesn't
require stress to accelerate failure. They can fail on
their own, without help.)

Bad caps can cause collateral damage. When a cap fails short
circuit, it upsets devices driving it, and they can get burned
too. By that time, you should be smelling something...

Paul

Hi again Paul -

I did a beep test with the ram, video card, and hard drives removed and
there were no beeps. And yes the speakers were on.

So do you think it's a motherboard issue given that the power supply is
brand new? The motherboard is a MS-6741 version 1.
Here's a link to it:
http://us.msi.com/index.php?func=pro...1&prod_no=601#

Is there another motherboard similar to this one where they could get at
Best Buy or other electronics store? I've found a couple of online stores
that have this model but I'm concerned about their return policies.

Thanks again for your help.

Wyman


"Paul" wrote in message
...
Wyman wrote:
Hi all -

I'm trying to help some friends fixed their computer. They have a
Gateway 816gm running WinXP. The issue they were having was that the
computer would just shut completely down for no reason if they were using
it and then stopped period. I pre-diagnosed this as maybe a power
supply, motherboard, or graphics card issue. So they brought the
computer over and it wouldn't boot up at all. All the fans(power supply,
g/c, and processor) came after pressing the power. However, I did not
hear the hard drives or the dvd burner spinning. The hard drive LED
light on the front was a yellowish color.

We bought a new power supply and tried it with the same results. I also
switched video cards and changed the hard drive cable and got the same
results. I'm now here looking for assistance. My next guess would be
the motherboard that's causing the problem. Is there a way to test this?

Any suggestions would greatly be appreciated.

Thanks in advance,
Wyman


An overheating CPU can cause the box to shut down (THERMTRIP).
An overheating or overloaded power supply can also shut down and
latch off. In cases like that, it may require toggling the main
power switch on the back, before the computer will respond to
the power button again.

Your test result tells you the power supply is not completely dead.
You've proved the logic path from the power switch to the PSU works.
You don't have measured values for all the supply rails, so there
could still be something wrong there.

I recommend reducing the hardware plugged into the computer,
and doing some "beep tests". When I suggest these, my assumption
is the computer case either has a speaker or a black piezo disk on
the motherboard, that beeps on errors.

If you remove the RAM and/or video card, that should cause the
computer to beep. (Always add or remove components, with all
power removed from the computer. Pull the cord to be sure.)
And the beep pattern requires a working processor. If you can
get some beeping, then it could be one of the items you just
removed from the computer, was dragging it down.

If it won't beep with RAM and video missing, and drives disconnected,
you're down to processor, motherboard, power supply, BIOS flash
chip and so on. Make sure the processor 2x2 ATX12V power cable
is connected. The power cables have latches on them, and their
purpose is to prevent the connector from "walking out" of its
mate. A loose connector, can actually have the pins burn on it.
Pull the power connectors and verify they're shiny and not
blackened. I've had one Molex 1x4 burn here, so it does happen.
In my case, the advanced warning was the fact that the cable
I was using, never seemed to fit right, and always required
fiddling to get it seated.

You don't mention the results of any visual inspection. Your
very first step, is to look for leaking capacitors, as the
capacitor plague from years past, involved millions of bad
capacitors. More info here on what to look for. Some Dells
were pretty hard hit on certain model numbers.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capacitor_plague

Split pressure-relief seams:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...ps-tayeh-4.jpg

Rust colored deposits:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...4/PSU_Caps.jpg

I lost a power supply, and it had the rust colored stuff on
four caps. It used to "sizzle" at startup, and after it
warmed up for a minute, might be OK for the rest of the day.
Fortunately, I stopped using it before it had a chance to
blow up or ruin stuff. (The funny thing was, the power
supply was used very little. The capacitor plague, doesn't
require stress to accelerate failure. They can fail on
their own, without help.)

Bad caps can cause collateral damage. When a cap fails short
circuit, it upsets devices driving it, and they can get burned
too. By that time, you should be smelling something...

Paul

Wyman wrote:
Hi again Paul -

I did a beep test with the ram, video card, and hard drives removed and
there were no beeps. And yes the speakers were on.

So do you think it's a motherboard issue given that the power supply is
brand new? The motherboard is a MS-6741 version 1.
Here's a link to it:
http://us.msi.com/index.php?func=pro...1&prod_no=601#

Is there another motherboard similar to this one where they could get at
Best Buy or other electronics store? I've found a couple of online stores
that have this model but I'm concerned about their return policies.

Thanks again for your help.

Wyman

In the picture, I think I see an onboard piezo speaker, right below the
two yellow (IDE?) connectors. Your beeps might be expected to come from
there.

http://us.msi.com/uploads/prod_890a5...c9c015a97a.jpg

http://www.msi.com/index.php?func=pr...=171&cat3_no=7

K8M800 / VT8237 / S754

The manual shows connector JFP1 has pins for "SPKR" on pins numbered
2 and 8. That is a span of four pins on 0.1" centers. The computer
case itself, may have a speaker mounted inside it, with that four pin
connector leading to it. The four pin connector might use the
two outside pins, for the speaker wires. If you don't have that
black piezo disc, then connect up the computer case speaker.
The computer case speaker, is a different speaker than the external
amplified stereo speakers you might be using.

http://download2.msi.com/files/downl.../E6741v1.1.zip

I don't know if the motherboard can drive both of those at the same
time, or whether the motherboard has that piezo element (black in
color, about the size of a quarter) as an option. Maybe if the board
is sold as an OEM motherboard, as part of a pre-built computer,
they install the piezo speaker on it.

In any case, for a beep test, you either need a working piezo thing,
or a working computer case speaker for the PC Beep. I presume
you used to hear a single "beep" at system startup, so should
have some idea if the machine used to beep while it was still functional.
With the RAM missing, you should get a different, repeating beep
pattern.

The purpose of the "beep" test, is to prove a minimal set of the
motherboard is functional. With no RAM installed, disks disconnected,
you can check for the beeps. If you hear them, your processor
managed to read BIOS code, do a memory test, and find the memory
missing. To generate the beep, the hardware path to the chipset
has to work. Same goes for reading the BIOS firmware - that won't work
unless a significant amount of the board is working.

A PCI Port 80 POST card, can also be used as a "proof of life" test,
but those cost money, whereas the beep test only needs
some kind of speaker you might already have.

I still think you should do a visual check for leaking caps. If
all the tops are shiny and flat, with no broken seams, then all
is fine in that regard.

Paul

Wyman wrote:
Hi again Paul -

I did a beep test with the ram, video card, and hard drives removed and
there were no beeps. And yes the speakers were on.

So do you think it's a motherboard issue given that the power supply is
brand new? The motherboard is a MS-6741 version 1.
Here's a link to it:
http://us.msi.com/index.php?func=pro...1&prod_no=601#

Is there another motherboard similar to this one where they could get at
Best Buy or other electronics store? I've found a couple of online stores
that have this model but I'm concerned about their return policies.

Thanks again for your help.

Wyman

In the picture, I think I see an onboard piezo speaker, right below the
two yellow (IDE?) connectors. Your beeps might be expected to come from
there.

http://us.msi.com/uploads/prod_890a5...c9c015a97a.jpg

http://www.msi.com/index.php?func=pr...=171&cat3_no=7

K8M800 / VT8237 / S754

The manual shows connector JFP1 has pins for "SPKR" on pins numbered
2 and 8. That is a span of four pins on 0.1" centers. The computer
case itself, may have a speaker mounted inside it, with that four pin
connector leading to it. The four pin connector might use the
two outside pins, for the speaker wires. If you don't have that
black piezo disc, then connect up the computer case speaker.
The computer case speaker, is a different speaker than the external
amplified stereo speakers you might be using.

http://download2.msi.com/files/downl.../E6741v1.1.zip

I don't know if the motherboard can drive both of those at the same
time, or whether the motherboard has that piezo element (black in
color, about the size of a quarter) as an option. Maybe if the board
is sold as an OEM motherboard, as part of a pre-built computer,
they install the piezo speaker on it.

In any case, for a beep test, you either need a working piezo thing,
or a working computer case speaker for the PC Beep. I presume
you used to hear a single "beep" at system startup, so should
have some idea if the machine used to beep while it was still functional.
With the RAM missing, you should get a different, repeating beep
pattern.

The purpose of the "beep" test, is to prove a minimal set of the
motherboard is functional. With no RAM installed, disks disconnected,
you can check for the beeps. If you hear them, your processor
managed to read BIOS code, do a memory test, and find the memory
missing. To generate the beep, the hardware path to the chipset
has to work. Same goes for reading the BIOS firmware - that won't work
unless a significant amount of the board is working.

A PCI Port 80 POST card, can also be used as a "proof of life" test,
but those cost money, whereas the beep test only needs
some kind of speaker you might already have.

I still think you should do a visual check for leaking caps. If
all the tops are shiny and flat, with no broken seams, then all
is fine in that regard.

Paul

There aren't any beeps and I haven't heard any at all. I'm not sure how to
get them to emit from the black piezo thingy you speak of.

I've examined the board carefully and I do not see any leakage that you
speak of. Actually the board looks very good for an older computer.

Unless I'm blind, I don't see any extra wires to connect the case speakers.
Where would they be located?

Wyman

"Paul" wrote in message
...
Wyman wrote:
Hi again Paul -

I did a beep test with the ram, video card, and hard drives removed and
there were no beeps. And yes the speakers were on.

So do you think it's a motherboard issue given that the power supply is
brand new? The motherboard is a MS-6741 version 1.
Here's a link to it:
http://us.msi.com/index.php?func=pro...1&prod_no=601#

Is there another motherboard similar to this one where they could get at
Best Buy or other electronics store? I've found a couple of online
stores that have this model but I'm concerned about their return
policies.

Thanks again for your help.

Wyman

In the picture, I think I see an onboard piezo speaker, right below the
two yellow (IDE?) connectors. Your beeps might be expected to come from
there.

http://us.msi.com/uploads/prod_890a5...c9c015a97a.jpg

http://www.msi.com/index.php?func=pr...=171&cat3_no=7

K8M800 / VT8237 / S754

The manual shows connector JFP1 has pins for "SPKR" on pins numbered
2 and 8. That is a span of four pins on 0.1" centers. The computer
case itself, may have a speaker mounted inside it, with that four pin
connector leading to it. The four pin connector might use the
two outside pins, for the speaker wires. If you don't have that
black piezo disc, then connect up the computer case speaker.
The computer case speaker, is a different speaker than the external
amplified stereo speakers you might be using.

http://download2.msi.com/files/downl.../E6741v1.1.zip

I don't know if the motherboard can drive both of those at the same
time, or whether the motherboard has that piezo element (black in
color, about the size of a quarter) as an option. Maybe if the board
is sold as an OEM motherboard, as part of a pre-built computer,
they install the piezo speaker on it.

In any case, for a beep test, you either need a working piezo thing,
or a working computer case speaker for the PC Beep. I presume
you used to hear a single "beep" at system startup, so should
have some idea if the machine used to beep while it was still functional.
With the RAM missing, you should get a different, repeating beep
pattern.

The purpose of the "beep" test, is to prove a minimal set of the
motherboard is functional. With no RAM installed, disks disconnected,
you can check for the beeps. If you hear them, your processor
managed to read BIOS code, do a memory test, and find the memory
missing. To generate the beep, the hardware path to the chipset
has to work. Same goes for reading the BIOS firmware - that won't work
unless a significant amount of the board is working.

A PCI Port 80 POST card, can also be used as a "proof of life" test,
but those cost money, whereas the beep test only needs
some kind of speaker you might already have.

I still think you should do a visual check for leaking caps. If
all the tops are shiny and flat, with no broken seams, then all
is fine in that regard.

Paul

There aren't any beeps and I haven't heard any at all. I'm not sure how to
get them to emit from the black piezo thingy you speak of.

I've examined the board carefully and I do not see any leakage that you
speak of. Actually the board looks very good for an older computer.

Unless I'm blind, I don't see any extra wires to connect the case speakers.
Where would they be located?

Wyman

"Paul" wrote in message
...
Wyman wrote:
Hi again Paul -

I did a beep test with the ram, video card, and hard drives removed and
there were no beeps. And yes the speakers were on.

So do you think it's a motherboard issue given that the power supply is
brand new? The motherboard is a MS-6741 version 1.
Here's a link to it:
http://us.msi.com/index.php?func=pro...1&prod_no=601#

Is there another motherboard similar to this one where they could get at
Best Buy or other electronics store? I've found a couple of online
stores that have this model but I'm concerned about their return
policies.

Thanks again for your help.

Wyman

In the picture, I think I see an onboard piezo speaker, right below the
two yellow (IDE?) connectors. Your beeps might be expected to come from
there.

http://us.msi.com/uploads/prod_890a5...c9c015a97a.jpg

http://www.msi.com/index.php?func=pr...=171&cat3_no=7

K8M800 / VT8237 / S754

The manual shows connector JFP1 has pins for "SPKR" on pins numbered
2 and 8. That is a span of four pins on 0.1" centers. The computer
case itself, may have a speaker mounted inside it, with that four pin
connector leading to it. The four pin connector might use the
two outside pins, for the speaker wires. If you don't have that
black piezo disc, then connect up the computer case speaker.
The computer case speaker, is a different speaker than the external
amplified stereo speakers you might be using.

http://download2.msi.com/files/downl.../E6741v1.1.zip

I don't know if the motherboard can drive both of those at the same
time, or whether the motherboard has that piezo element (black in
color, about the size of a quarter) as an option. Maybe if the board
is sold as an OEM motherboard, as part of a pre-built computer,
they install the piezo speaker on it.

In any case, for a beep test, you either need a working piezo thing,
or a working computer case speaker for the PC Beep. I presume
you used to hear a single "beep" at system startup, so should
have some idea if the machine used to beep while it was still functional.
With the RAM missing, you should get a different, repeating beep
pattern.

The purpose of the "beep" test, is to prove a minimal set of the
motherboard is functional. With no RAM installed, disks disconnected,
you can check for the beeps. If you hear them, your processor
managed to read BIOS code, do a memory test, and find the memory
missing. To generate the beep, the hardware path to the chipset
has to work. Same goes for reading the BIOS firmware - that won't work
unless a significant amount of the board is working.

A PCI Port 80 POST card, can also be used as a "proof of life" test,
but those cost money, whereas the beep test only needs
some kind of speaker you might already have.

I still think you should do a visual check for leaking caps. If
all the tops are shiny and flat, with no broken seams, then all
is fine in that regard.

Paul

Wyman wrote:
There aren't any beeps and I haven't heard any at all. I'm not sure how to
get them to emit from the black piezo thingy you speak of.

I've examined the board carefully and I do not see any leakage that you
speak of. Actually the board looks very good for an older computer.

Unless I'm blind, I don't see any extra wires to connect the case speakers.
Where would they be located?

Wyman


OK, if I look at my computer right now, there is a thing called
the PANEL header. It is in the lower right hand corner of my motherboard.
It is an unwritten convention, to place the connector down in the lower
right hand corner. It is where you start looking, for computer case interface
pins.

PLED SPEAKER
X . X . . . X X X X

X X . . . X X . X X
IDE PWR RESET

My computer case, has five pieces of twisted pair wire. Each twisted
pair has a connector on the end. The connector has a name printed on
it, such as "PWR". The "PWR" pair of wires coming from the front of
the computer case, are coming from the front Power switch. You connect
the Power switch from the computer, to the PWR pins on the PANEL
header. When you've done so, momentarily pressing the power switch,
shorts the two PWR pins on the PANEL header together, and that
is the signal for the computer to start.

The PANEL header, is where devices on the front panel of the
computer case connect.

In cases where the computer case is missing functions, you simply
don't have anything to fit on the pins. For example, some computer
cases don't have a RESET switch. If you were building a computer,
and it had no pair of wires for RESET, then the PANEL header would
end up with no connector on it.

The bare minimum set of wires for the PANEL header, is PWR. You
can't very well use the computer, unless there is some means
to momentarily short the PWR pins together. In my example
of a PANEL header above, four of the five interfaces could
have nothing connected to it. But I do need PWR, to be able
to use the computer.

Now, in your case, I used your user manual, to identify a header
which has the SPKR (speaker) pins on it. Look at your computer case.
Do you see a pair of wires lying on the bottom of the case unused ?
Does the connector on the end of the wires say "SPKR". Is the
connector size four pins, where the outside pins (pin 1 and pin 4)
have wires ? That is what you'd connect to the header on the motherboard.

So either you have that black piezoelectric disc below the two IDE connectors,
or you do not. Check visually and see if the black disc (piezo
speaker) is present. If it isn't present, then you need to
investigate

1) Whether the computer case has an internal speaker intended for
PC Beep. The speaker itself is usually hidden, and can be held in
a separate plastic assembly in the front of the computer. Sometimes
a plastic holder has room for a small fan, and on the other side of
the assembly, the speaker is jammed into the plastic.

2) If you have a speaker, and the two wires are sitting there unused,
try connecting them to the pins labeled SPKR, as shown in your
user manual.

When I look in the E6741v1.1.pdf document, the PANEL header is
documented on PDF page 28. In your case, there are two adjacent
sets of pins, JFP2 and JFP1, that make up the traditional set
of PANEL header functions. You have PLED, PWR, HDD, RESET on
one group of pins. The second connector has the SPKR pins on
it (as well as some confusing LED driving functions).

http://download2.msi.com/files/downl.../E6741v1.1.zip

Look in the lower right hand corner of your motherboard. The
text "JFP2" and "JFP1" should be printed next to the header
pins.

The diagram in the manual on PDF page 11, shows the PANEL functions
in the lower right hand corner. There, you can see how close
together JFP2 and JFP1 are. It *looks* like a 2x9 set of pins.
Other motherboards would just call that whole thing "PANEL".
If you connect the computer case speaker to the SPKR pins
on that thing, then you're ready for beep codes.

Some computer cases (the up-scale ones), don't have the
built-in case speaker any more. You can always get a small
speaker from an old transistor radio, to use as a substitute.
As long as the motherboard has the SPKR interface on
the PANEL header, you can drive one.

Paul

Wyman wrote:
There aren't any beeps and I haven't heard any at all. I'm not sure how to
get them to emit from the black piezo thingy you speak of.

I've examined the board carefully and I do not see any leakage that you
speak of. Actually the board looks very good for an older computer.

Unless I'm blind, I don't see any extra wires to connect the case speakers.
Where would they be located?

Wyman


OK, if I look at my computer right now, there is a thing called
the PANEL header. It is in the lower right hand corner of my motherboard.
It is an unwritten convention, to place the connector down in the lower
right hand corner. It is where you start looking, for computer case interface
pins.

PLED SPEAKER
X . X . . . X X X X

X X . . . X X . X X
IDE PWR RESET

My computer case, has five pieces of twisted pair wire. Each twisted
pair has a connector on the end. The connector has a name printed on
it, such as "PWR". The "PWR" pair of wires coming from the front of
the computer case, are coming from the front Power switch. You connect
the Power switch from the computer, to the PWR pins on the PANEL
header. When you've done so, momentarily pressing the power switch,
shorts the two PWR pins on the PANEL header together, and that
is the signal for the computer to start.

The PANEL header, is where devices on the front panel of the
computer case connect.

In cases where the computer case is missing functions, you simply
don't have anything to fit on the pins. For example, some computer
cases don't have a RESET switch. If you were building a computer,
and it had no pair of wires for RESET, then the PANEL header would
end up with no connector on it.

The bare minimum set of wires for the PANEL header, is PWR. You
can't very well use the computer, unless there is some means
to momentarily short the PWR pins together. In my example
of a PANEL header above, four of the five interfaces could
have nothing connected to it. But I do need PWR, to be able
to use the computer.

Now, in your case, I used your user manual, to identify a header
which has the SPKR (speaker) pins on it. Look at your computer case.
Do you see a pair of wires lying on the bottom of the case unused ?
Does the connector on the end of the wires say "SPKR". Is the
connector size four pins, where the outside pins (pin 1 and pin 4)
have wires ? That is what you'd connect to the header on the motherboard.

So either you have that black piezoelectric disc below the two IDE connectors,
or you do not. Check visually and see if the black disc (piezo
speaker) is present. If it isn't present, then you need to
investigate

1) Whether the computer case has an internal speaker intended for
PC Beep. The speaker itself is usually hidden, and can be held in
a separate plastic assembly in the front of the computer. Sometimes
a plastic holder has room for a small fan, and on the other side of
the assembly, the speaker is jammed into the plastic.

2) If you have a speaker, and the two wires are sitting there unused,
try connecting them to the pins labeled SPKR, as shown in your
user manual.

When I look in the E6741v1.1.pdf document, the PANEL header is
documented on PDF page 28. In your case, there are two adjacent
sets of pins, JFP2 and JFP1, that make up the traditional set
of PANEL header functions. You have PLED, PWR, HDD, RESET on
one group of pins. The second connector has the SPKR pins on
it (as well as some confusing LED driving functions).

http://download2.msi.com/files/downl.../E6741v1.1.zip

Look in the lower right hand corner of your motherboard. The
text "JFP2" and "JFP1" should be printed next to the header
pins.

The diagram in the manual on PDF page 11, shows the PANEL functions
in the lower right hand corner. There, you can see how close
together JFP2 and JFP1 are. It *looks* like a 2x9 set of pins.
Other motherboards would just call that whole thing "PANEL".
If you connect the computer case speaker to the SPKR pins
on that thing, then you're ready for beep codes.

Some computer cases (the up-scale ones), don't have the
built-in case speaker any more. You can always get a small
speaker from an old transistor radio, to use as a substitute.
As long as the motherboard has the SPKR interface on
the PANEL header, you can drive one.

Paul

"Paul" wrote:

Wyman wrote:
There aren't any beeps and I haven't heard any at all. I'm not sure how to
get them to emit from the black piezo thingy you speak of.

I've examined the board carefully and I do not see any leakage that you
speak of. Actually the board looks very good for an older computer.

Unless I'm blind, I don't see any extra wires to connect the case speakers.
Where would they be located?

Wyman


OK, if I look at my computer right now, there is a thing called
the PANEL header. It is in the lower right hand corner of my motherboard.
It is an unwritten convention, to place the connector down in the lower
right hand corner. It is where you start looking, for computer case interface
pins.

PLED SPEAKER
X . X . . . X X X X

X X . . . X X . X X
IDE PWR RESET

My computer case, has five pieces of twisted pair wire. Each twisted
pair has a connector on the end. The connector has a name printed on
it, such as "PWR". The "PWR" pair of wires coming from the front of
the computer case, are coming from the front Power switch. You connect
the Power switch from the computer, to the PWR pins on the PANEL
header. When you've done so, momentarily pressing the power switch,
shorts the two PWR pins on the PANEL header together, and that
is the signal for the computer to start.

The PANEL header, is where devices on the front panel of the
computer case connect.

In cases where the computer case is missing functions, you simply
don't have anything to fit on the pins. For example, some computer
cases don't have a RESET switch. If you were building a computer,
and it had no pair of wires for RESET, then the PANEL header would
end up with no connector on it.

The bare minimum set of wires for the PANEL header, is PWR. You
can't very well use the computer, unless there is some means
to momentarily short the PWR pins together. In my example
of a PANEL header above, four of the five interfaces could
have nothing connected to it. But I do need PWR, to be able
to use the computer.

Now, in your case, I used your user manual, to identify a header
which has the SPKR (speaker) pins on it. Look at your computer case.
Do you see a pair of wires lying on the bottom of the case unused ?
Does the connector on the end of the wires say "SPKR". Is the
connector size four pins, where the outside pins (pin 1 and pin 4)
have wires ? That is what you'd connect to the header on the motherboard.

So either you have that black piezoelectric disc below the two IDE connectors,
or you do not. Check visually and see if the black disc (piezo
speaker) is present. If it isn't present, then you need to
investigate

1) Whether the computer case has an internal speaker intended for
PC Beep. The speaker itself is usually hidden, and can be held in
a separate plastic assembly in the front of the computer. Sometimes
a plastic holder has room for a small fan, and on the other side of
the assembly, the speaker is jammed into the plastic.

2) If you have a speaker, and the two wires are sitting there unused,
try connecting them to the pins labeled SPKR, as shown in your
user manual.

When I look in the E6741v1.1.pdf document, the PANEL header is
documented on PDF page 28. In your case, there are two adjacent
sets of pins, JFP2 and JFP1, that make up the traditional set
of PANEL header functions. You have PLED, PWR, HDD, RESET on
one group of pins. The second connector has the SPKR pins on
it (as well as some confusing LED driving functions).

http://download2.msi.com/files/downl.../E6741v1.1.zip

Look in the lower right hand corner of your motherboard. The
text "JFP2" and "JFP1" should be printed next to the header
pins.

The diagram in the manual on PDF page 11, shows the PANEL functions
in the lower right hand corner. There, you can see how close
together JFP2 and JFP1 are. It *looks* like a 2x9 set of pins.
Other motherboards would just call that whole thing "PANEL".
If you connect the computer case speaker to the SPKR pins
on that thing, then you're ready for beep codes.

Some computer cases (the up-scale ones), don't have the
built-in case speaker any more. You can always get a small
speaker from an old transistor radio, to use as a substitute.
As long as the motherboard has the SPKR interface on
the PANEL header, you can drive one.

Paul
.

I did see the black piezo thing you speak of but I don't see any extra wires
to connect to the spkr pins. A lot of this is a bit over my head and out my
comfort level to try to do. I'm thinking of suggesting to replace the
motherboard and be done with it. It'll be easier to replace instead doing
all these tests. Are there any similar to this one that can be bought in any
of the local electronic stores?

"Paul" wrote:

Wyman wrote:
There aren't any beeps and I haven't heard any at all. I'm not sure how to
get them to emit from the black piezo thingy you speak of.

I've examined the board carefully and I do not see any leakage that you
speak of. Actually the board looks very good for an older computer.

Unless I'm blind, I don't see any extra wires to connect the case speakers.
Where would they be located?

Wyman


OK, if I look at my computer right now, there is a thing called
the PANEL header. It is in the lower right hand corner of my motherboard.
It is an unwritten convention, to place the connector down in the lower
right hand corner. It is where you start looking, for computer case interface
pins.

PLED SPEAKER
X . X . . . X X X X

X X . . . X X . X X
IDE PWR RESET

My computer case, has five pieces of twisted pair wire. Each twisted
pair has a connector on the end. The connector has a name printed on
it, such as "PWR". The "PWR" pair of wires coming from the front of
the computer case, are coming from the front Power switch. You connect
the Power switch from the computer, to the PWR pins on the PANEL
header. When you've done so, momentarily pressing the power switch,
shorts the two PWR pins on the PANEL header together, and that
is the signal for the computer to start.

The PANEL header, is where devices on the front panel of the
computer case connect.

In cases where the computer case is missing functions, you simply
don't have anything to fit on the pins. For example, some computer
cases don't have a RESET switch. If you were building a computer,
and it had no pair of wires for RESET, then the PANEL header would
end up with no connector on it.

The bare minimum set of wires for the PANEL header, is PWR. You
can't very well use the computer, unless there is some means
to momentarily short the PWR pins together. In my example
of a PANEL header above, four of the five interfaces could
have nothing connected to it. But I do need PWR, to be able
to use the computer.

Now, in your case, I used your user manual, to identify a header
which has the SPKR (speaker) pins on it. Look at your computer case.
Do you see a pair of wires lying on the bottom of the case unused ?
Does the connector on the end of the wires say "SPKR". Is the
connector size four pins, where the outside pins (pin 1 and pin 4)
have wires ? That is what you'd connect to the header on the motherboard.

So either you have that black piezoelectric disc below the two IDE connectors,
or you do not. Check visually and see if the black disc (piezo
speaker) is present. If it isn't present, then you need to
investigate

1) Whether the computer case has an internal speaker intended for
PC Beep. The speaker itself is usually hidden, and can be held in
a separate plastic assembly in the front of the computer. Sometimes
a plastic holder has room for a small fan, and on the other side of
the assembly, the speaker is jammed into the plastic.

2) If you have a speaker, and the two wires are sitting there unused,
try connecting them to the pins labeled SPKR, as shown in your
user manual.

When I look in the E6741v1.1.pdf document, the PANEL header is
documented on PDF page 28. In your case, there are two adjacent
sets of pins, JFP2 and JFP1, that make up the traditional set
of PANEL header functions. You have PLED, PWR, HDD, RESET on
one group of pins. The second connector has the SPKR pins on
it (as well as some confusing LED driving functions).

http://download2.msi.com/files/downl.../E6741v1.1.zip

Look in the lower right hand corner of your motherboard. The
text "JFP2" and "JFP1" should be printed next to the header
pins.

The diagram in the manual on PDF page 11, shows the PANEL functions
in the lower right hand corner. There, you can see how close
together JFP2 and JFP1 are. It *looks* like a 2x9 set of pins.
Other motherboards would just call that whole thing "PANEL".
If you connect the computer case speaker to the SPKR pins
on that thing, then you're ready for beep codes.

Some computer cases (the up-scale ones), don't have the
built-in case speaker any more. You can always get a small
speaker from an old transistor radio, to use as a substitute.
As long as the motherboard has the SPKR interface on
the PANEL header, you can drive one.

Paul
.

I did see the black piezo thing you speak of but I don't see any extra wires
to connect to the spkr pins. A lot of this is a bit over my head and out my
comfort level to try to do. I'm thinking of suggesting to replace the
motherboard and be done with it. It'll be easier to replace instead doing
all these tests. Are there any similar to this one that can be bought in any
of the local electronic stores?