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#1
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Computer won't boot
Hi all -
I'm trying to help some friends fixed their computer. They have a Gateway 816gm running WinXP. The issue they were having was that the computer would just shut completely down for no reason if they were using it and then stopped period. I pre-diagnosed this as maybe a power supply, motherboard, or graphics card issue. So they brought the computer over and it wouldn't boot up at all. All the fans(power supply, g/c, and processor) came after pressing the power. However, I did not hear the hard drives or the dvd burner spinning. The hard drive LED light on the front was a yellowish color. We bought a new power supply and tried it with the same results. I also switched video cards and changed the hard drive cable and got the same results. I'm now here looking for assistance. My next guess would be the motherboard that's causing the problem. Is there a way to test this? Any suggestions would greatly be appreciated. Thanks in advance, Wyman |
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#2
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Computer won't boot
Wyman wrote:
Hi all - I'm trying to help some friends fixed their computer. They have a Gateway 816gm running WinXP. The issue they were having was that the computer would just shut completely down for no reason if they were using it and then stopped period. I pre-diagnosed this as maybe a power supply, motherboard, or graphics card issue. So they brought the computer over and it wouldn't boot up at all. All the fans(power supply, g/c, and processor) came after pressing the power. However, I did not hear the hard drives or the dvd burner spinning. The hard drive LED light on the front was a yellowish color. We bought a new power supply and tried it with the same results. I also switched video cards and changed the hard drive cable and got the same results. I'm now here looking for assistance. My next guess would be the motherboard that's causing the problem. Is there a way to test this? Any suggestions would greatly be appreciated. Thanks in advance, Wyman An overheating CPU can cause the box to shut down (THERMTRIP). An overheating or overloaded power supply can also shut down and latch off. In cases like that, it may require toggling the main power switch on the back, before the computer will respond to the power button again. Your test result tells you the power supply is not completely dead. You've proved the logic path from the power switch to the PSU works. You don't have measured values for all the supply rails, so there could still be something wrong there. I recommend reducing the hardware plugged into the computer, and doing some "beep tests". When I suggest these, my assumption is the computer case either has a speaker or a black piezo disk on the motherboard, that beeps on errors. If you remove the RAM and/or video card, that should cause the computer to beep. (Always add or remove components, with all power removed from the computer. Pull the cord to be sure.) And the beep pattern requires a working processor. If you can get some beeping, then it could be one of the items you just removed from the computer, was dragging it down. If it won't beep with RAM and video missing, and drives disconnected, you're down to processor, motherboard, power supply, BIOS flash chip and so on. Make sure the processor 2x2 ATX12V power cable is connected. The power cables have latches on them, and their purpose is to prevent the connector from "walking out" of its mate. A loose connector, can actually have the pins burn on it. Pull the power connectors and verify they're shiny and not blackened. I've had one Molex 1x4 burn here, so it does happen. In my case, the advanced warning was the fact that the cable I was using, never seemed to fit right, and always required fiddling to get it seated. You don't mention the results of any visual inspection. Your very first step, is to look for leaking capacitors, as the capacitor plague from years past, involved millions of bad capacitors. More info here on what to look for. Some Dells were pretty hard hit on certain model numbers. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capacitor_plague Split pressure-relief seams: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...ps-tayeh-4.jpg Rust colored deposits: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...4/PSU_Caps.jpg I lost a power supply, and it had the rust colored stuff on four caps. It used to "sizzle" at startup, and after it warmed up for a minute, might be OK for the rest of the day. Fortunately, I stopped using it before it had a chance to blow up or ruin stuff. (The funny thing was, the power supply was used very little. The capacitor plague, doesn't require stress to accelerate failure. They can fail on their own, without help.) Bad caps can cause collateral damage. When a cap fails short circuit, it upsets devices driving it, and they can get burned too. By that time, you should be smelling something... Paul |
#3
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Computer won't boot
Wyman wrote:
Hi all - I'm trying to help some friends fixed their computer. They have a Gateway 816gm running WinXP. The issue they were having was that the computer would just shut completely down for no reason if they were using it and then stopped period. I pre-diagnosed this as maybe a power supply, motherboard, or graphics card issue. So they brought the computer over and it wouldn't boot up at all. All the fans(power supply, g/c, and processor) came after pressing the power. However, I did not hear the hard drives or the dvd burner spinning. The hard drive LED light on the front was a yellowish color. We bought a new power supply and tried it with the same results. I also switched video cards and changed the hard drive cable and got the same results. I'm now here looking for assistance. My next guess would be the motherboard that's causing the problem. Is there a way to test this? Any suggestions would greatly be appreciated. Thanks in advance, Wyman An overheating CPU can cause the box to shut down (THERMTRIP). An overheating or overloaded power supply can also shut down and latch off. In cases like that, it may require toggling the main power switch on the back, before the computer will respond to the power button again. Your test result tells you the power supply is not completely dead. You've proved the logic path from the power switch to the PSU works. You don't have measured values for all the supply rails, so there could still be something wrong there. I recommend reducing the hardware plugged into the computer, and doing some "beep tests". When I suggest these, my assumption is the computer case either has a speaker or a black piezo disk on the motherboard, that beeps on errors. If you remove the RAM and/or video card, that should cause the computer to beep. (Always add or remove components, with all power removed from the computer. Pull the cord to be sure.) And the beep pattern requires a working processor. If you can get some beeping, then it could be one of the items you just removed from the computer, was dragging it down. If it won't beep with RAM and video missing, and drives disconnected, you're down to processor, motherboard, power supply, BIOS flash chip and so on. Make sure the processor 2x2 ATX12V power cable is connected. The power cables have latches on them, and their purpose is to prevent the connector from "walking out" of its mate. A loose connector, can actually have the pins burn on it. Pull the power connectors and verify they're shiny and not blackened. I've had one Molex 1x4 burn here, so it does happen. In my case, the advanced warning was the fact that the cable I was using, never seemed to fit right, and always required fiddling to get it seated. You don't mention the results of any visual inspection. Your very first step, is to look for leaking capacitors, as the capacitor plague from years past, involved millions of bad capacitors. More info here on what to look for. Some Dells were pretty hard hit on certain model numbers. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capacitor_plague Split pressure-relief seams: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...ps-tayeh-4.jpg Rust colored deposits: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...4/PSU_Caps.jpg I lost a power supply, and it had the rust colored stuff on four caps. It used to "sizzle" at startup, and after it warmed up for a minute, might be OK for the rest of the day. Fortunately, I stopped using it before it had a chance to blow up or ruin stuff. (The funny thing was, the power supply was used very little. The capacitor plague, doesn't require stress to accelerate failure. They can fail on their own, without help.) Bad caps can cause collateral damage. When a cap fails short circuit, it upsets devices driving it, and they can get burned too. By that time, you should be smelling something... Paul |
#4
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Computer won't boot
"Paul" wrote: Wyman wrote: Hi all - I'm trying to help some friends fixed their computer. They have a Gateway 816gm running WinXP. The issue they were having was that the computer would just shut completely down for no reason if they were using it and then stopped period. I pre-diagnosed this as maybe a power supply, motherboard, or graphics card issue. So they brought the computer over and it wouldn't boot up at all. All the fans(power supply, g/c, and processor) came after pressing the power. However, I did not hear the hard drives or the dvd burner spinning. The hard drive LED light on the front was a yellowish color. We bought a new power supply and tried it with the same results. I also switched video cards and changed the hard drive cable and got the same results. I'm now here looking for assistance. My next guess would be the motherboard that's causing the problem. Is there a way to test this? Any suggestions would greatly be appreciated. Thanks in advance, Wyman An overheating CPU can cause the box to shut down (THERMTRIP). An overheating or overloaded power supply can also shut down and latch off. In cases like that, it may require toggling the main power switch on the back, before the computer will respond to the power button again. Your test result tells you the power supply is not completely dead. You've proved the logic path from the power switch to the PSU works. You don't have measured values for all the supply rails, so there could still be something wrong there. I recommend reducing the hardware plugged into the computer, and doing some "beep tests". When I suggest these, my assumption is the computer case either has a speaker or a black piezo disk on the motherboard, that beeps on errors. If you remove the RAM and/or video card, that should cause the computer to beep. (Always add or remove components, with all power removed from the computer. Pull the cord to be sure.) And the beep pattern requires a working processor. If you can get some beeping, then it could be one of the items you just removed from the computer, was dragging it down. If it won't beep with RAM and video missing, and drives disconnected, you're down to processor, motherboard, power supply, BIOS flash chip and so on. Make sure the processor 2x2 ATX12V power cable is connected. The power cables have latches on them, and their purpose is to prevent the connector from "walking out" of its mate. A loose connector, can actually have the pins burn on it. Pull the power connectors and verify they're shiny and not blackened. I've had one Molex 1x4 burn here, so it does happen. In my case, the advanced warning was the fact that the cable I was using, never seemed to fit right, and always required fiddling to get it seated. You don't mention the results of any visual inspection. Your very first step, is to look for leaking capacitors, as the capacitor plague from years past, involved millions of bad capacitors. More info here on what to look for. Some Dells were pretty hard hit on certain model numbers. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capacitor_plague Split pressure-relief seams: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...ps-tayeh-4.jpg Rust colored deposits: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...4/PSU_Caps.jpg I lost a power supply, and it had the rust colored stuff on four caps. It used to "sizzle" at startup, and after it warmed up for a minute, might be OK for the rest of the day. Fortunately, I stopped using it before it had a chance to blow up or ruin stuff. (The funny thing was, the power supply was used very little. The capacitor plague, doesn't require stress to accelerate failure. They can fail on their own, without help.) Bad caps can cause collateral damage. When a cap fails short circuit, it upsets devices driving it, and they can get burned too. By that time, you should be smelling something... Paul . Hi Paul - Thanks for your reply. The power supply in the machine is brand new and just purchased on Monday. I did plug in speakers to see if I could hear any beeps without having the hard drive plugged in but didn't hear anything. I'll try it without the video card and ram to see if there are any beeps. Wyman |
#5
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Computer won't boot
"Paul" wrote: Wyman wrote: Hi all - I'm trying to help some friends fixed their computer. They have a Gateway 816gm running WinXP. The issue they were having was that the computer would just shut completely down for no reason if they were using it and then stopped period. I pre-diagnosed this as maybe a power supply, motherboard, or graphics card issue. So they brought the computer over and it wouldn't boot up at all. All the fans(power supply, g/c, and processor) came after pressing the power. However, I did not hear the hard drives or the dvd burner spinning. The hard drive LED light on the front was a yellowish color. We bought a new power supply and tried it with the same results. I also switched video cards and changed the hard drive cable and got the same results. I'm now here looking for assistance. My next guess would be the motherboard that's causing the problem. Is there a way to test this? Any suggestions would greatly be appreciated. Thanks in advance, Wyman An overheating CPU can cause the box to shut down (THERMTRIP). An overheating or overloaded power supply can also shut down and latch off. In cases like that, it may require toggling the main power switch on the back, before the computer will respond to the power button again. Your test result tells you the power supply is not completely dead. You've proved the logic path from the power switch to the PSU works. You don't have measured values for all the supply rails, so there could still be something wrong there. I recommend reducing the hardware plugged into the computer, and doing some "beep tests". When I suggest these, my assumption is the computer case either has a speaker or a black piezo disk on the motherboard, that beeps on errors. If you remove the RAM and/or video card, that should cause the computer to beep. (Always add or remove components, with all power removed from the computer. Pull the cord to be sure.) And the beep pattern requires a working processor. If you can get some beeping, then it could be one of the items you just removed from the computer, was dragging it down. If it won't beep with RAM and video missing, and drives disconnected, you're down to processor, motherboard, power supply, BIOS flash chip and so on. Make sure the processor 2x2 ATX12V power cable is connected. The power cables have latches on them, and their purpose is to prevent the connector from "walking out" of its mate. A loose connector, can actually have the pins burn on it. Pull the power connectors and verify they're shiny and not blackened. I've had one Molex 1x4 burn here, so it does happen. In my case, the advanced warning was the fact that the cable I was using, never seemed to fit right, and always required fiddling to get it seated. You don't mention the results of any visual inspection. Your very first step, is to look for leaking capacitors, as the capacitor plague from years past, involved millions of bad capacitors. More info here on what to look for. Some Dells were pretty hard hit on certain model numbers. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capacitor_plague Split pressure-relief seams: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...ps-tayeh-4.jpg Rust colored deposits: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...4/PSU_Caps.jpg I lost a power supply, and it had the rust colored stuff on four caps. It used to "sizzle" at startup, and after it warmed up for a minute, might be OK for the rest of the day. Fortunately, I stopped using it before it had a chance to blow up or ruin stuff. (The funny thing was, the power supply was used very little. The capacitor plague, doesn't require stress to accelerate failure. They can fail on their own, without help.) Bad caps can cause collateral damage. When a cap fails short circuit, it upsets devices driving it, and they can get burned too. By that time, you should be smelling something... Paul . Hi Paul - Thanks for your reply. The power supply in the machine is brand new and just purchased on Monday. I did plug in speakers to see if I could hear any beeps without having the hard drive plugged in but didn't hear anything. I'll try it without the video card and ram to see if there are any beeps. Wyman |
#6
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Computer won't boot
Hi again Paul -
I did a beep test with the ram, video card, and hard drives removed and there were no beeps. And yes the speakers were on. So do you think it's a motherboard issue given that the power supply is brand new? The motherboard is a MS-6741 version 1. Here's a link to it: http://us.msi.com/index.php?func=pro...1&prod_no=601# Is there another motherboard similar to this one where they could get at Best Buy or other electronics store? I've found a couple of online stores that have this model but I'm concerned about their return policies. Thanks again for your help. Wyman "Paul" wrote in message ... Wyman wrote: Hi all - I'm trying to help some friends fixed their computer. They have a Gateway 816gm running WinXP. The issue they were having was that the computer would just shut completely down for no reason if they were using it and then stopped period. I pre-diagnosed this as maybe a power supply, motherboard, or graphics card issue. So they brought the computer over and it wouldn't boot up at all. All the fans(power supply, g/c, and processor) came after pressing the power. However, I did not hear the hard drives or the dvd burner spinning. The hard drive LED light on the front was a yellowish color. We bought a new power supply and tried it with the same results. I also switched video cards and changed the hard drive cable and got the same results. I'm now here looking for assistance. My next guess would be the motherboard that's causing the problem. Is there a way to test this? Any suggestions would greatly be appreciated. Thanks in advance, Wyman An overheating CPU can cause the box to shut down (THERMTRIP). An overheating or overloaded power supply can also shut down and latch off. In cases like that, it may require toggling the main power switch on the back, before the computer will respond to the power button again. Your test result tells you the power supply is not completely dead. You've proved the logic path from the power switch to the PSU works. You don't have measured values for all the supply rails, so there could still be something wrong there. I recommend reducing the hardware plugged into the computer, and doing some "beep tests". When I suggest these, my assumption is the computer case either has a speaker or a black piezo disk on the motherboard, that beeps on errors. If you remove the RAM and/or video card, that should cause the computer to beep. (Always add or remove components, with all power removed from the computer. Pull the cord to be sure.) And the beep pattern requires a working processor. If you can get some beeping, then it could be one of the items you just removed from the computer, was dragging it down. If it won't beep with RAM and video missing, and drives disconnected, you're down to processor, motherboard, power supply, BIOS flash chip and so on. Make sure the processor 2x2 ATX12V power cable is connected. The power cables have latches on them, and their purpose is to prevent the connector from "walking out" of its mate. A loose connector, can actually have the pins burn on it. Pull the power connectors and verify they're shiny and not blackened. I've had one Molex 1x4 burn here, so it does happen. In my case, the advanced warning was the fact that the cable I was using, never seemed to fit right, and always required fiddling to get it seated. You don't mention the results of any visual inspection. Your very first step, is to look for leaking capacitors, as the capacitor plague from years past, involved millions of bad capacitors. More info here on what to look for. Some Dells were pretty hard hit on certain model numbers. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capacitor_plague Split pressure-relief seams: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...ps-tayeh-4.jpg Rust colored deposits: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...4/PSU_Caps.jpg I lost a power supply, and it had the rust colored stuff on four caps. It used to "sizzle" at startup, and after it warmed up for a minute, might be OK for the rest of the day. Fortunately, I stopped using it before it had a chance to blow up or ruin stuff. (The funny thing was, the power supply was used very little. The capacitor plague, doesn't require stress to accelerate failure. They can fail on their own, without help.) Bad caps can cause collateral damage. When a cap fails short circuit, it upsets devices driving it, and they can get burned too. By that time, you should be smelling something... Paul |
#7
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Computer won't boot
Hi again Paul -
I did a beep test with the ram, video card, and hard drives removed and there were no beeps. And yes the speakers were on. So do you think it's a motherboard issue given that the power supply is brand new? The motherboard is a MS-6741 version 1. Here's a link to it: http://us.msi.com/index.php?func=pro...1&prod_no=601# Is there another motherboard similar to this one where they could get at Best Buy or other electronics store? I've found a couple of online stores that have this model but I'm concerned about their return policies. Thanks again for your help. Wyman "Paul" wrote in message ... Wyman wrote: Hi all - I'm trying to help some friends fixed their computer. They have a Gateway 816gm running WinXP. The issue they were having was that the computer would just shut completely down for no reason if they were using it and then stopped period. I pre-diagnosed this as maybe a power supply, motherboard, or graphics card issue. So they brought the computer over and it wouldn't boot up at all. All the fans(power supply, g/c, and processor) came after pressing the power. However, I did not hear the hard drives or the dvd burner spinning. The hard drive LED light on the front was a yellowish color. We bought a new power supply and tried it with the same results. I also switched video cards and changed the hard drive cable and got the same results. I'm now here looking for assistance. My next guess would be the motherboard that's causing the problem. Is there a way to test this? Any suggestions would greatly be appreciated. Thanks in advance, Wyman An overheating CPU can cause the box to shut down (THERMTRIP). An overheating or overloaded power supply can also shut down and latch off. In cases like that, it may require toggling the main power switch on the back, before the computer will respond to the power button again. Your test result tells you the power supply is not completely dead. You've proved the logic path from the power switch to the PSU works. You don't have measured values for all the supply rails, so there could still be something wrong there. I recommend reducing the hardware plugged into the computer, and doing some "beep tests". When I suggest these, my assumption is the computer case either has a speaker or a black piezo disk on the motherboard, that beeps on errors. If you remove the RAM and/or video card, that should cause the computer to beep. (Always add or remove components, with all power removed from the computer. Pull the cord to be sure.) And the beep pattern requires a working processor. If you can get some beeping, then it could be one of the items you just removed from the computer, was dragging it down. If it won't beep with RAM and video missing, and drives disconnected, you're down to processor, motherboard, power supply, BIOS flash chip and so on. Make sure the processor 2x2 ATX12V power cable is connected. The power cables have latches on them, and their purpose is to prevent the connector from "walking out" of its mate. A loose connector, can actually have the pins burn on it. Pull the power connectors and verify they're shiny and not blackened. I've had one Molex 1x4 burn here, so it does happen. In my case, the advanced warning was the fact that the cable I was using, never seemed to fit right, and always required fiddling to get it seated. You don't mention the results of any visual inspection. Your very first step, is to look for leaking capacitors, as the capacitor plague from years past, involved millions of bad capacitors. More info here on what to look for. Some Dells were pretty hard hit on certain model numbers. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capacitor_plague Split pressure-relief seams: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...ps-tayeh-4.jpg Rust colored deposits: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...4/PSU_Caps.jpg I lost a power supply, and it had the rust colored stuff on four caps. It used to "sizzle" at startup, and after it warmed up for a minute, might be OK for the rest of the day. Fortunately, I stopped using it before it had a chance to blow up or ruin stuff. (The funny thing was, the power supply was used very little. The capacitor plague, doesn't require stress to accelerate failure. They can fail on their own, without help.) Bad caps can cause collateral damage. When a cap fails short circuit, it upsets devices driving it, and they can get burned too. By that time, you should be smelling something... Paul |
#8
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Computer won't boot
Wyman wrote:
Hi again Paul - I did a beep test with the ram, video card, and hard drives removed and there were no beeps. And yes the speakers were on. So do you think it's a motherboard issue given that the power supply is brand new? The motherboard is a MS-6741 version 1. Here's a link to it: http://us.msi.com/index.php?func=pro...1&prod_no=601# Is there another motherboard similar to this one where they could get at Best Buy or other electronics store? I've found a couple of online stores that have this model but I'm concerned about their return policies. Thanks again for your help. Wyman In the picture, I think I see an onboard piezo speaker, right below the two yellow (IDE?) connectors. Your beeps might be expected to come from there. http://us.msi.com/uploads/prod_890a5...c9c015a97a.jpg http://www.msi.com/index.php?func=pr...=171&cat3_no=7 K8M800 / VT8237 / S754 The manual shows connector JFP1 has pins for "SPKR" on pins numbered 2 and 8. That is a span of four pins on 0.1" centers. The computer case itself, may have a speaker mounted inside it, with that four pin connector leading to it. The four pin connector might use the two outside pins, for the speaker wires. If you don't have that black piezo disc, then connect up the computer case speaker. The computer case speaker, is a different speaker than the external amplified stereo speakers you might be using. http://download2.msi.com/files/downl.../E6741v1.1.zip I don't know if the motherboard can drive both of those at the same time, or whether the motherboard has that piezo element (black in color, about the size of a quarter) as an option. Maybe if the board is sold as an OEM motherboard, as part of a pre-built computer, they install the piezo speaker on it. In any case, for a beep test, you either need a working piezo thing, or a working computer case speaker for the PC Beep. I presume you used to hear a single "beep" at system startup, so should have some idea if the machine used to beep while it was still functional. With the RAM missing, you should get a different, repeating beep pattern. The purpose of the "beep" test, is to prove a minimal set of the motherboard is functional. With no RAM installed, disks disconnected, you can check for the beeps. If you hear them, your processor managed to read BIOS code, do a memory test, and find the memory missing. To generate the beep, the hardware path to the chipset has to work. Same goes for reading the BIOS firmware - that won't work unless a significant amount of the board is working. A PCI Port 80 POST card, can also be used as a "proof of life" test, but those cost money, whereas the beep test only needs some kind of speaker you might already have. I still think you should do a visual check for leaking caps. If all the tops are shiny and flat, with no broken seams, then all is fine in that regard. Paul |
#9
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Computer won't boot
Wyman wrote:
Hi again Paul - I did a beep test with the ram, video card, and hard drives removed and there were no beeps. And yes the speakers were on. So do you think it's a motherboard issue given that the power supply is brand new? The motherboard is a MS-6741 version 1. Here's a link to it: http://us.msi.com/index.php?func=pro...1&prod_no=601# Is there another motherboard similar to this one where they could get at Best Buy or other electronics store? I've found a couple of online stores that have this model but I'm concerned about their return policies. Thanks again for your help. Wyman In the picture, I think I see an onboard piezo speaker, right below the two yellow (IDE?) connectors. Your beeps might be expected to come from there. http://us.msi.com/uploads/prod_890a5...c9c015a97a.jpg http://www.msi.com/index.php?func=pr...=171&cat3_no=7 K8M800 / VT8237 / S754 The manual shows connector JFP1 has pins for "SPKR" on pins numbered 2 and 8. That is a span of four pins on 0.1" centers. The computer case itself, may have a speaker mounted inside it, with that four pin connector leading to it. The four pin connector might use the two outside pins, for the speaker wires. If you don't have that black piezo disc, then connect up the computer case speaker. The computer case speaker, is a different speaker than the external amplified stereo speakers you might be using. http://download2.msi.com/files/downl.../E6741v1.1.zip I don't know if the motherboard can drive both of those at the same time, or whether the motherboard has that piezo element (black in color, about the size of a quarter) as an option. Maybe if the board is sold as an OEM motherboard, as part of a pre-built computer, they install the piezo speaker on it. In any case, for a beep test, you either need a working piezo thing, or a working computer case speaker for the PC Beep. I presume you used to hear a single "beep" at system startup, so should have some idea if the machine used to beep while it was still functional. With the RAM missing, you should get a different, repeating beep pattern. The purpose of the "beep" test, is to prove a minimal set of the motherboard is functional. With no RAM installed, disks disconnected, you can check for the beeps. If you hear them, your processor managed to read BIOS code, do a memory test, and find the memory missing. To generate the beep, the hardware path to the chipset has to work. Same goes for reading the BIOS firmware - that won't work unless a significant amount of the board is working. A PCI Port 80 POST card, can also be used as a "proof of life" test, but those cost money, whereas the beep test only needs some kind of speaker you might already have. I still think you should do a visual check for leaking caps. If all the tops are shiny and flat, with no broken seams, then all is fine in that regard. Paul |
#10
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Computer won't boot
There aren't any beeps and I haven't heard any at all. I'm not sure how to
get them to emit from the black piezo thingy you speak of. I've examined the board carefully and I do not see any leakage that you speak of. Actually the board looks very good for an older computer. Unless I'm blind, I don't see any extra wires to connect the case speakers. Where would they be located? Wyman "Paul" wrote in message ... Wyman wrote: Hi again Paul - I did a beep test with the ram, video card, and hard drives removed and there were no beeps. And yes the speakers were on. So do you think it's a motherboard issue given that the power supply is brand new? The motherboard is a MS-6741 version 1. Here's a link to it: http://us.msi.com/index.php?func=pro...1&prod_no=601# Is there another motherboard similar to this one where they could get at Best Buy or other electronics store? I've found a couple of online stores that have this model but I'm concerned about their return policies. Thanks again for your help. Wyman In the picture, I think I see an onboard piezo speaker, right below the two yellow (IDE?) connectors. Your beeps might be expected to come from there. http://us.msi.com/uploads/prod_890a5...c9c015a97a.jpg http://www.msi.com/index.php?func=pr...=171&cat3_no=7 K8M800 / VT8237 / S754 The manual shows connector JFP1 has pins for "SPKR" on pins numbered 2 and 8. That is a span of four pins on 0.1" centers. The computer case itself, may have a speaker mounted inside it, with that four pin connector leading to it. The four pin connector might use the two outside pins, for the speaker wires. If you don't have that black piezo disc, then connect up the computer case speaker. The computer case speaker, is a different speaker than the external amplified stereo speakers you might be using. http://download2.msi.com/files/downl.../E6741v1.1.zip I don't know if the motherboard can drive both of those at the same time, or whether the motherboard has that piezo element (black in color, about the size of a quarter) as an option. Maybe if the board is sold as an OEM motherboard, as part of a pre-built computer, they install the piezo speaker on it. In any case, for a beep test, you either need a working piezo thing, or a working computer case speaker for the PC Beep. I presume you used to hear a single "beep" at system startup, so should have some idea if the machine used to beep while it was still functional. With the RAM missing, you should get a different, repeating beep pattern. The purpose of the "beep" test, is to prove a minimal set of the motherboard is functional. With no RAM installed, disks disconnected, you can check for the beeps. If you hear them, your processor managed to read BIOS code, do a memory test, and find the memory missing. To generate the beep, the hardware path to the chipset has to work. Same goes for reading the BIOS firmware - that won't work unless a significant amount of the board is working. A PCI Port 80 POST card, can also be used as a "proof of life" test, but those cost money, whereas the beep test only needs some kind of speaker you might already have. I still think you should do a visual check for leaking caps. If all the tops are shiny and flat, with no broken seams, then all is fine in that regard. Paul |
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Computer won't boot
There aren't any beeps and I haven't heard any at all. I'm not sure how to
get them to emit from the black piezo thingy you speak of. I've examined the board carefully and I do not see any leakage that you speak of. Actually the board looks very good for an older computer. Unless I'm blind, I don't see any extra wires to connect the case speakers. Where would they be located? Wyman "Paul" wrote in message ... Wyman wrote: Hi again Paul - I did a beep test with the ram, video card, and hard drives removed and there were no beeps. And yes the speakers were on. So do you think it's a motherboard issue given that the power supply is brand new? The motherboard is a MS-6741 version 1. Here's a link to it: http://us.msi.com/index.php?func=pro...1&prod_no=601# Is there another motherboard similar to this one where they could get at Best Buy or other electronics store? I've found a couple of online stores that have this model but I'm concerned about their return policies. Thanks again for your help. Wyman In the picture, I think I see an onboard piezo speaker, right below the two yellow (IDE?) connectors. Your beeps might be expected to come from there. http://us.msi.com/uploads/prod_890a5...c9c015a97a.jpg http://www.msi.com/index.php?func=pr...=171&cat3_no=7 K8M800 / VT8237 / S754 The manual shows connector JFP1 has pins for "SPKR" on pins numbered 2 and 8. That is a span of four pins on 0.1" centers. The computer case itself, may have a speaker mounted inside it, with that four pin connector leading to it. The four pin connector might use the two outside pins, for the speaker wires. If you don't have that black piezo disc, then connect up the computer case speaker. The computer case speaker, is a different speaker than the external amplified stereo speakers you might be using. http://download2.msi.com/files/downl.../E6741v1.1.zip I don't know if the motherboard can drive both of those at the same time, or whether the motherboard has that piezo element (black in color, about the size of a quarter) as an option. Maybe if the board is sold as an OEM motherboard, as part of a pre-built computer, they install the piezo speaker on it. In any case, for a beep test, you either need a working piezo thing, or a working computer case speaker for the PC Beep. I presume you used to hear a single "beep" at system startup, so should have some idea if the machine used to beep while it was still functional. With the RAM missing, you should get a different, repeating beep pattern. The purpose of the "beep" test, is to prove a minimal set of the motherboard is functional. With no RAM installed, disks disconnected, you can check for the beeps. If you hear them, your processor managed to read BIOS code, do a memory test, and find the memory missing. To generate the beep, the hardware path to the chipset has to work. Same goes for reading the BIOS firmware - that won't work unless a significant amount of the board is working. A PCI Port 80 POST card, can also be used as a "proof of life" test, but those cost money, whereas the beep test only needs some kind of speaker you might already have. I still think you should do a visual check for leaking caps. If all the tops are shiny and flat, with no broken seams, then all is fine in that regard. Paul |
#12
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Computer won't boot
Wyman wrote:
There aren't any beeps and I haven't heard any at all. I'm not sure how to get them to emit from the black piezo thingy you speak of. I've examined the board carefully and I do not see any leakage that you speak of. Actually the board looks very good for an older computer. Unless I'm blind, I don't see any extra wires to connect the case speakers. Where would they be located? Wyman OK, if I look at my computer right now, there is a thing called the PANEL header. It is in the lower right hand corner of my motherboard. It is an unwritten convention, to place the connector down in the lower right hand corner. It is where you start looking, for computer case interface pins. PLED SPEAKER X . X . . . X X X X X X . . . X X . X X IDE PWR RESET My computer case, has five pieces of twisted pair wire. Each twisted pair has a connector on the end. The connector has a name printed on it, such as "PWR". The "PWR" pair of wires coming from the front of the computer case, are coming from the front Power switch. You connect the Power switch from the computer, to the PWR pins on the PANEL header. When you've done so, momentarily pressing the power switch, shorts the two PWR pins on the PANEL header together, and that is the signal for the computer to start. The PANEL header, is where devices on the front panel of the computer case connect. In cases where the computer case is missing functions, you simply don't have anything to fit on the pins. For example, some computer cases don't have a RESET switch. If you were building a computer, and it had no pair of wires for RESET, then the PANEL header would end up with no connector on it. The bare minimum set of wires for the PANEL header, is PWR. You can't very well use the computer, unless there is some means to momentarily short the PWR pins together. In my example of a PANEL header above, four of the five interfaces could have nothing connected to it. But I do need PWR, to be able to use the computer. Now, in your case, I used your user manual, to identify a header which has the SPKR (speaker) pins on it. Look at your computer case. Do you see a pair of wires lying on the bottom of the case unused ? Does the connector on the end of the wires say "SPKR". Is the connector size four pins, where the outside pins (pin 1 and pin 4) have wires ? That is what you'd connect to the header on the motherboard. So either you have that black piezoelectric disc below the two IDE connectors, or you do not. Check visually and see if the black disc (piezo speaker) is present. If it isn't present, then you need to investigate 1) Whether the computer case has an internal speaker intended for PC Beep. The speaker itself is usually hidden, and can be held in a separate plastic assembly in the front of the computer. Sometimes a plastic holder has room for a small fan, and on the other side of the assembly, the speaker is jammed into the plastic. 2) If you have a speaker, and the two wires are sitting there unused, try connecting them to the pins labeled SPKR, as shown in your user manual. When I look in the E6741v1.1.pdf document, the PANEL header is documented on PDF page 28. In your case, there are two adjacent sets of pins, JFP2 and JFP1, that make up the traditional set of PANEL header functions. You have PLED, PWR, HDD, RESET on one group of pins. The second connector has the SPKR pins on it (as well as some confusing LED driving functions). http://download2.msi.com/files/downl.../E6741v1.1.zip Look in the lower right hand corner of your motherboard. The text "JFP2" and "JFP1" should be printed next to the header pins. The diagram in the manual on PDF page 11, shows the PANEL functions in the lower right hand corner. There, you can see how close together JFP2 and JFP1 are. It *looks* like a 2x9 set of pins. Other motherboards would just call that whole thing "PANEL". If you connect the computer case speaker to the SPKR pins on that thing, then you're ready for beep codes. Some computer cases (the up-scale ones), don't have the built-in case speaker any more. You can always get a small speaker from an old transistor radio, to use as a substitute. As long as the motherboard has the SPKR interface on the PANEL header, you can drive one. Paul |
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Computer won't boot
Wyman wrote:
There aren't any beeps and I haven't heard any at all. I'm not sure how to get them to emit from the black piezo thingy you speak of. I've examined the board carefully and I do not see any leakage that you speak of. Actually the board looks very good for an older computer. Unless I'm blind, I don't see any extra wires to connect the case speakers. Where would they be located? Wyman OK, if I look at my computer right now, there is a thing called the PANEL header. It is in the lower right hand corner of my motherboard. It is an unwritten convention, to place the connector down in the lower right hand corner. It is where you start looking, for computer case interface pins. PLED SPEAKER X . X . . . X X X X X X . . . X X . X X IDE PWR RESET My computer case, has five pieces of twisted pair wire. Each twisted pair has a connector on the end. The connector has a name printed on it, such as "PWR". The "PWR" pair of wires coming from the front of the computer case, are coming from the front Power switch. You connect the Power switch from the computer, to the PWR pins on the PANEL header. When you've done so, momentarily pressing the power switch, shorts the two PWR pins on the PANEL header together, and that is the signal for the computer to start. The PANEL header, is where devices on the front panel of the computer case connect. In cases where the computer case is missing functions, you simply don't have anything to fit on the pins. For example, some computer cases don't have a RESET switch. If you were building a computer, and it had no pair of wires for RESET, then the PANEL header would end up with no connector on it. The bare minimum set of wires for the PANEL header, is PWR. You can't very well use the computer, unless there is some means to momentarily short the PWR pins together. In my example of a PANEL header above, four of the five interfaces could have nothing connected to it. But I do need PWR, to be able to use the computer. Now, in your case, I used your user manual, to identify a header which has the SPKR (speaker) pins on it. Look at your computer case. Do you see a pair of wires lying on the bottom of the case unused ? Does the connector on the end of the wires say "SPKR". Is the connector size four pins, where the outside pins (pin 1 and pin 4) have wires ? That is what you'd connect to the header on the motherboard. So either you have that black piezoelectric disc below the two IDE connectors, or you do not. Check visually and see if the black disc (piezo speaker) is present. If it isn't present, then you need to investigate 1) Whether the computer case has an internal speaker intended for PC Beep. The speaker itself is usually hidden, and can be held in a separate plastic assembly in the front of the computer. Sometimes a plastic holder has room for a small fan, and on the other side of the assembly, the speaker is jammed into the plastic. 2) If you have a speaker, and the two wires are sitting there unused, try connecting them to the pins labeled SPKR, as shown in your user manual. When I look in the E6741v1.1.pdf document, the PANEL header is documented on PDF page 28. In your case, there are two adjacent sets of pins, JFP2 and JFP1, that make up the traditional set of PANEL header functions. You have PLED, PWR, HDD, RESET on one group of pins. The second connector has the SPKR pins on it (as well as some confusing LED driving functions). http://download2.msi.com/files/downl.../E6741v1.1.zip Look in the lower right hand corner of your motherboard. The text "JFP2" and "JFP1" should be printed next to the header pins. The diagram in the manual on PDF page 11, shows the PANEL functions in the lower right hand corner. There, you can see how close together JFP2 and JFP1 are. It *looks* like a 2x9 set of pins. Other motherboards would just call that whole thing "PANEL". If you connect the computer case speaker to the SPKR pins on that thing, then you're ready for beep codes. Some computer cases (the up-scale ones), don't have the built-in case speaker any more. You can always get a small speaker from an old transistor radio, to use as a substitute. As long as the motherboard has the SPKR interface on the PANEL header, you can drive one. Paul |
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Computer won't boot
"Paul" wrote: Wyman wrote: There aren't any beeps and I haven't heard any at all. I'm not sure how to get them to emit from the black piezo thingy you speak of. I've examined the board carefully and I do not see any leakage that you speak of. Actually the board looks very good for an older computer. Unless I'm blind, I don't see any extra wires to connect the case speakers. Where would they be located? Wyman OK, if I look at my computer right now, there is a thing called the PANEL header. It is in the lower right hand corner of my motherboard. It is an unwritten convention, to place the connector down in the lower right hand corner. It is where you start looking, for computer case interface pins. PLED SPEAKER X . X . . . X X X X X X . . . X X . X X IDE PWR RESET My computer case, has five pieces of twisted pair wire. Each twisted pair has a connector on the end. The connector has a name printed on it, such as "PWR". The "PWR" pair of wires coming from the front of the computer case, are coming from the front Power switch. You connect the Power switch from the computer, to the PWR pins on the PANEL header. When you've done so, momentarily pressing the power switch, shorts the two PWR pins on the PANEL header together, and that is the signal for the computer to start. The PANEL header, is where devices on the front panel of the computer case connect. In cases where the computer case is missing functions, you simply don't have anything to fit on the pins. For example, some computer cases don't have a RESET switch. If you were building a computer, and it had no pair of wires for RESET, then the PANEL header would end up with no connector on it. The bare minimum set of wires for the PANEL header, is PWR. You can't very well use the computer, unless there is some means to momentarily short the PWR pins together. In my example of a PANEL header above, four of the five interfaces could have nothing connected to it. But I do need PWR, to be able to use the computer. Now, in your case, I used your user manual, to identify a header which has the SPKR (speaker) pins on it. Look at your computer case. Do you see a pair of wires lying on the bottom of the case unused ? Does the connector on the end of the wires say "SPKR". Is the connector size four pins, where the outside pins (pin 1 and pin 4) have wires ? That is what you'd connect to the header on the motherboard. So either you have that black piezoelectric disc below the two IDE connectors, or you do not. Check visually and see if the black disc (piezo speaker) is present. If it isn't present, then you need to investigate 1) Whether the computer case has an internal speaker intended for PC Beep. The speaker itself is usually hidden, and can be held in a separate plastic assembly in the front of the computer. Sometimes a plastic holder has room for a small fan, and on the other side of the assembly, the speaker is jammed into the plastic. 2) If you have a speaker, and the two wires are sitting there unused, try connecting them to the pins labeled SPKR, as shown in your user manual. When I look in the E6741v1.1.pdf document, the PANEL header is documented on PDF page 28. In your case, there are two adjacent sets of pins, JFP2 and JFP1, that make up the traditional set of PANEL header functions. You have PLED, PWR, HDD, RESET on one group of pins. The second connector has the SPKR pins on it (as well as some confusing LED driving functions). http://download2.msi.com/files/downl.../E6741v1.1.zip Look in the lower right hand corner of your motherboard. The text "JFP2" and "JFP1" should be printed next to the header pins. The diagram in the manual on PDF page 11, shows the PANEL functions in the lower right hand corner. There, you can see how close together JFP2 and JFP1 are. It *looks* like a 2x9 set of pins. Other motherboards would just call that whole thing "PANEL". If you connect the computer case speaker to the SPKR pins on that thing, then you're ready for beep codes. Some computer cases (the up-scale ones), don't have the built-in case speaker any more. You can always get a small speaker from an old transistor radio, to use as a substitute. As long as the motherboard has the SPKR interface on the PANEL header, you can drive one. Paul . I did see the black piezo thing you speak of but I don't see any extra wires to connect to the spkr pins. A lot of this is a bit over my head and out my comfort level to try to do. I'm thinking of suggesting to replace the motherboard and be done with it. It'll be easier to replace instead doing all these tests. Are there any similar to this one that can be bought in any of the local electronic stores? |
#15
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Computer won't boot
"Paul" wrote: Wyman wrote: There aren't any beeps and I haven't heard any at all. I'm not sure how to get them to emit from the black piezo thingy you speak of. I've examined the board carefully and I do not see any leakage that you speak of. Actually the board looks very good for an older computer. Unless I'm blind, I don't see any extra wires to connect the case speakers. Where would they be located? Wyman OK, if I look at my computer right now, there is a thing called the PANEL header. It is in the lower right hand corner of my motherboard. It is an unwritten convention, to place the connector down in the lower right hand corner. It is where you start looking, for computer case interface pins. PLED SPEAKER X . X . . . X X X X X X . . . X X . X X IDE PWR RESET My computer case, has five pieces of twisted pair wire. Each twisted pair has a connector on the end. The connector has a name printed on it, such as "PWR". The "PWR" pair of wires coming from the front of the computer case, are coming from the front Power switch. You connect the Power switch from the computer, to the PWR pins on the PANEL header. When you've done so, momentarily pressing the power switch, shorts the two PWR pins on the PANEL header together, and that is the signal for the computer to start. The PANEL header, is where devices on the front panel of the computer case connect. In cases where the computer case is missing functions, you simply don't have anything to fit on the pins. For example, some computer cases don't have a RESET switch. If you were building a computer, and it had no pair of wires for RESET, then the PANEL header would end up with no connector on it. The bare minimum set of wires for the PANEL header, is PWR. You can't very well use the computer, unless there is some means to momentarily short the PWR pins together. In my example of a PANEL header above, four of the five interfaces could have nothing connected to it. But I do need PWR, to be able to use the computer. Now, in your case, I used your user manual, to identify a header which has the SPKR (speaker) pins on it. Look at your computer case. Do you see a pair of wires lying on the bottom of the case unused ? Does the connector on the end of the wires say "SPKR". Is the connector size four pins, where the outside pins (pin 1 and pin 4) have wires ? That is what you'd connect to the header on the motherboard. So either you have that black piezoelectric disc below the two IDE connectors, or you do not. Check visually and see if the black disc (piezo speaker) is present. If it isn't present, then you need to investigate 1) Whether the computer case has an internal speaker intended for PC Beep. The speaker itself is usually hidden, and can be held in a separate plastic assembly in the front of the computer. Sometimes a plastic holder has room for a small fan, and on the other side of the assembly, the speaker is jammed into the plastic. 2) If you have a speaker, and the two wires are sitting there unused, try connecting them to the pins labeled SPKR, as shown in your user manual. When I look in the E6741v1.1.pdf document, the PANEL header is documented on PDF page 28. In your case, there are two adjacent sets of pins, JFP2 and JFP1, that make up the traditional set of PANEL header functions. You have PLED, PWR, HDD, RESET on one group of pins. The second connector has the SPKR pins on it (as well as some confusing LED driving functions). http://download2.msi.com/files/downl.../E6741v1.1.zip Look in the lower right hand corner of your motherboard. The text "JFP2" and "JFP1" should be printed next to the header pins. The diagram in the manual on PDF page 11, shows the PANEL functions in the lower right hand corner. There, you can see how close together JFP2 and JFP1 are. It *looks* like a 2x9 set of pins. Other motherboards would just call that whole thing "PANEL". If you connect the computer case speaker to the SPKR pins on that thing, then you're ready for beep codes. Some computer cases (the up-scale ones), don't have the built-in case speaker any more. You can always get a small speaker from an old transistor radio, to use as a substitute. As long as the motherboard has the SPKR interface on the PANEL header, you can drive one. Paul . I did see the black piezo thing you speak of but I don't see any extra wires to connect to the spkr pins. A lot of this is a bit over my head and out my comfort level to try to do. I'm thinking of suggesting to replace the motherboard and be done with it. It'll be easier to replace instead doing all these tests. Are there any similar to this one that can be bought in any of the local electronic stores? |
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