New to XP - - seeking partition recommendations

Tecknomage wrote:



Which drive usually crashes most of the time, C:

If your apps, especially those that keep data on the app's home
folder, and they are all on C: you loose the data.


Fortunately, no properly designed application does that. They haven't
for years, now.




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Bruce Chambers

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"Tecknomage" wrote
"Gordon" wrote:

"Tecknomage" wrote

I always advise to use C: as a system drive only, in fact my C: Volume
Name = System. That is WinXP no applications, including My Documents.

The only programs I put in my C: are _key_ system utilities such as
Total Commander (file manager) which I use instead of Explorer.

Why?

D:\ @ 80GB NTFS - XP files

This is where I advise to put _all_ applications (not in C:\Program
Files) in their own folder (example: D:\NERO _not_ D:\Program
Files\NERO). I use D: Volume Name = APPS

Why? if you have to re-install your OS then you WILL have to re-install
all
your apps - so your splitting of apps and OS is a complete waste of
time....


Which drive usually crashes most of the time, C:

Any drive can fail an anytime. Besides C: is a volume, not a drive. C:\
can be on any drive in the system, though it usually is on the drive that's
primary master (for PATA drives).

If your apps, especially those that keep data on the app's home
folder, and they are all on C: you loose the data.

Just set the defaults in the app to save the data elsewhere. Besides this
has nothing to do with safeguarding data.

This is also whymoving your My Documents to another drive is a good idea.
This
suggestion saved a friend's "life" who had 3yrs of college papers on
his Desktop and C: crashed. Didn't loose any of his work because he
took my advice and moved My Documents out of C:

The purpose for redirecting data is for organization and to make backup
easier; it's not for safeguarding data. Relying on placing data on a non OS
system drive is little better than nothing in terms of backup. Data is
protected through backup to external media.

To save time when you do have to do reinstallations, if you backup
your Registry files (User.dat & System.dat) elsewhere or do good
system backups, reinstallation is not that hard if apps are not on C:

This makes no senses. Apps have to be reinstalled if the OS is reinstalled.

Just reinstall WinXP on C:, install your backup app (if you don't use
XP's backup) then recover the C: file backup or just your Registry
files (most, but _not_all_, should work). I've done this for people 3
times.

And you have to sort out all the inconsistencies, figure out what apps
aren't working, reinstall them, fight with the problems when they won't
install because of settings already present in the recovered registry, and
hope there aren't problems down the line.

Of course, a drive _image_ backup is the absolute best way to backup
your critical drives for recovery. Note an image backup is _not_ the
same as a file backup. When you recover an image backup, it rewrites
the drive; Boot Record, Partition Table, and all files.

In the case of C:, you just have to use a backup app that can run from
a boot CD and access where the backup image is (DVD, external HD,
etc.). I use Acronis True Image at home and at work the engineers use
NERO's BackItUp module to backup a drive (image). There is one
advantage of NERO, the first DVD/CD of a backup set it makes is
bootable to the BackItUp module for recovery.

Note the "external HD." At work (IT Tech) we use external Firewire
160gb HD for disaster recovery for our servers, and this is
increasingly used by businesses for the same thing. We have 2 which
we swap, previous backup HD kept off-site, HD connected to server for
next full backup. Better than tapes or DVDs.

You are correct as far as apps are concerned, there will be _some_
reinstallation required if you don't do image backups.

None of this really gives any weight to segregating Apps on a different
volume. Sure you can, for organization sake, but not for any other purpose.
Data needs to be protected by backup, not by placement on a particular
volume on an internal drive.

--
Rock [MS-MVP User/Shell]

``Any drive can fail anytime.''

It's in fact only a question of when, not if.

This win95 machine has been up solidly 24/7 for over a decade, though.
SCSI 2gb drive.

However I back it up as if it's going to fail tomorrow.

--
Ron Hardin


On the internet, nobody knows you're a jerk.

On Fri, 08 Jun 2007 04:55:20 -0700, Tecknomage
wrote:

On Thu, 07 Jun 2007 07:42:33 -0700, "Ken Blake, MVP"
wrote:

On Thu, 07 Jun 2007 04:53:17 -0700, Tecknomage
wrote:


I always advise to use C: as a system drive only, in fact my C: Volume
Name = System. That is WinXP no applications, including My Documents.



Why? There is no value in separating applications on a separate
partition from the operating system. For almost everyone, this is a
mistake.


I've been in the computer business for over 30yrs now. "Grew up" with
Windows.


So I see that you're a newcomer to the business. I started in the
computer business 45 years ago, in 1962.

But how long either of us has been in the computer is irrelevant to
the question at hand. A statement isn't right or wrong based on how
much experience the person who states it has.


Putting apps in C: is _not_ the safest way because the most
likely drive to crash is C:.



First of all, for the great majority of people who have a choice of C:
or some other drive letter, the drive letters represent partitions on
a single physical drive. When the drive crashes, it's the *physical*
drive that crashes, and all partitions on it are lost. Which partition
you put something on doesn't matter, when you're talking about drives
crashing.

Second, even in the rare case when C: is a physical drive of its own,
and you put applications on a separate drive, it *still* doesn't
matter. If C: (or whatever drive Windows is on) crashes, you lose your
applications--*even* if they are on a completely separate drive.
That's because all applications (except for a very occasional trivial
one) have many entries and pointers to them within Windows--in the
registry and elsewhere. If you lose your Windows installation, your
apps are worthless and need to be reinstalled along with Windows.

--
Ken Blake, Microsoft MVP Windows - Shell/User
Please Reply to the Newsgroup

John John wrote:

Yes, you wouldn't want to lose your program.ini files... Only archaic
applications or new applications written by numb sculls store user data
in the program folder!

With the obvious exception of portable applications (by design or
otherwise) , such a Firefox , Opera , Maxthon, GIMP, Openoffice,
PaintShopPro, 7z, VLC, KMPlayer, Putty...


Ken Blake, MVP wrote:

Second, even in the rare case when C: is a physical drive of its own,
and you put applications on a separate drive, it *still* doesn't
matter. If C: (or whatever drive Windows is on) crashes, you lose your
applications--*even* if they are on a completely separate drive.
That's because all applications (except for a very occasional trivial
one) have many entries and pointers to them within Windows--in the
registry and elsewhere. If you lose your Windows installation, your
apps are worthless and need to be reinstalled along with Windows.

With a backup&restore of registry and My Documents (all shortcuts) on
a different drive, what else is there ?
Even a simple XCopy works sometimes; worked fine from me from the HD
of an AMD K7 W2K to the HD of an Intel P4 W2K to a different partition
in a subfolder. The AMD HD already contained a copy of a way older
Intel Pentium 90MHz (98SE) machine.
Most programs (65%) programs worked fine , some (~20%) complained a
little the first time they were started, only a handfull didn't work
at all. Just re-rediscovered Age Of Empires II btw


--
bugmenot user

Toby wrote:

John John wrote:


Yes, you wouldn't want to lose your program.ini files... Only archaic
applications or new applications written by numb sculls store user data
in the program folder!


With the obvious exception of portable applications (by design or
otherwise) , such a Firefox , Opera , Maxthon, GIMP, Openoffice,
PaintShopPro, 7z, VLC, KMPlayer, Putty...

I haven't used those other applications but Firefox doesn't store user
data in the program folder, it stores it in the \Documents and
Settings\%username%\Application Data\Mozilla folder

John

On Jun 8, 11:57 pm, John John wrote:
Toby wrote:
(by design or otherwise)

I haven't used those other applications but Firefox doesn't store user
data in the program folder, it stores it in the \Documents and
Settings\%username%\Application Data\Mozilla folder

By default, yes , but for portable use it's just easier to have the
profile folder within the application folder or nearby so you can
launch with that profile from command line (or created shortcut) or
with 'Free The Fox', the easiest way to run stable, alpha and nightly
versions side-by-side.

Opera, for one, asks upon installation whether to use individual
settins per user or same settings for all users, in which case the
Opera profile directory is inside the main Opera directory.


--
bugmenot user

"Tecknomage" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 07 Jun 2007 07:42:33 -0700, "Ken Blake, MVP"
wrote:

On Thu, 07 Jun 2007 04:53:17 -0700, Tecknomage
wrote:


I always advise to use C: as a system drive only, in fact my C: Volume
Name = System. That is WinXP no applications, including My Documents.



Why? There is no value in separating applications on a separate
partition from the operating system. For almost everyone, this is a
mistake.


I've been in the computer business for over 30yrs now. "Grew up" with
Windows. Putting apps in C: is _not_ the safest way because the most
likely drive to crash is C:.


Oh dear - you might have grown up USING windows but you obviously have no
idea of how Windows WORKS, do you? Most modern applications written for
Windows put many entries into the Registry, which is held on the C:
drice....if your C drive crashes, SO DOES THE REGISTRY, thus entailin
re-installation of your apps. there is NO POINT whatsoever in putting apps
on a separate drive, whether physical HDD or partition, as they WILL put
entries in the registry on C:....


I work as an IT Tech at this time in my career, and the business
practice I see most often is C: = OS & OS utilities, apps on 2nd HD,

And I've been using PCs since the IBM AT came out and I've NEVER seen this
configuration in ANY business I've EVER worked in....most business machines
(workstations) do not HAVE multiple hard disk drives anyway,

and apps configured to place their documents/data on a 3rd HD.

I have NEVER, in over 20 years as a Systems Accountabt, seen ANY workstation
in any business with two hard disk drives, let alone THREE......


You backup the 3rd HD daily (in one company they did this every 12hrs)
to save critical data. C: & 2nd HD weekly file backups, and image
backups of all drives at scheduled intervals.

Umm that's why all data is kept on a central SERVER.......

Of course we are not talking Desktops,

But the OP IS talking desktops, so why all this irrelevant nonsense?

"Gordon" wrote:

"Tecknomage" wrote in message
.. .
On Thu, 07 Jun 2007 07:42:33 -0700, "Ken Blake, MVP"
wrote:

On Thu, 07 Jun 2007 04:53:17 -0700, Tecknomage
wrote:


I always advise to use C: as a system drive only, in fact my C: Volume
Name = System. That is WinXP no applications, including My Documents.



Why? There is no value in separating applications on a separate
partition from the operating system. For almost everyone, this is a
mistake.


I've been in the computer business for over 30yrs now. "Grew up" with
Windows. Putting apps in C: is _not_ the safest way because the most
likely drive to crash is C:.


Oh dear - you might have grown up USING windows but you obviously have no
idea of how Windows WORKS, do you? Most modern applications written for
Windows put many entries into the Registry, which is held on the C:
drice....if your C drive crashes, SO DOES THE REGISTRY, thus entailin
re-installation of your apps. there is NO POINT whatsoever in putting apps
on a separate drive, whether physical HDD or partition, as they WILL put
entries in the registry on C:....


I work as an IT Tech at this time in my career, and the business
practice I see most often is C: = OS & OS utilities, apps on 2nd HD,

And I've been using PCs since the IBM AT came out and I've NEVER seen this
configuration in ANY business I've EVER worked in....most business machines
(workstations) do not HAVE multiple hard disk drives anyway,

No, but they may very well have more than one partition. That's the
way it works here. Our single physical hard drive is partitioned into
C: and D:. The OS and some core apps (MS Office, particularly) is on
C:. Most everything, including many, many apps are on D:.

Of course most of those apps make registry entries and put DLLs in
system libraries, all of which uses space on C:. But the EXE files,
local DLLs, and zillions of supporting files are on D:, and not taking
up space on C:.

It's a matter of personal preference, though in this case the "person"
is the LAN Support department here.

--
Tim Slattery
MS MVP(DTS)

http://members.cox.net/slatteryt