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#31
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How to set "Verify On" at XP startup ?
Scott Seligman wrote:
"John John (MVP)" wrote: You are the one who said that Xcopy does thing differently with the /v switch than it does without, not me. All I am telling you is that the /v switch is only accepted for compatibility with MS-DOS and that if it "appears" to be doing things differently it is only a "smoke show" to fool MS-DOS applications into believing that the switch actually does something. It does something different, even if it's trivial. It can in fact cause Xcopy to return an error as it checks the file size. If you refuse to believe me and refuse to see for yourself, then I can't help you. The switch is clearly not ignored. I've proven that to you, and you ignored the evidence, and the offer to see the Detours test that shows the error Xcopy can raise only with the /V switch. Once again, I've shown you a different set of APIs that Xcopy calls when you give it the /V switch. Do you think I'm making up test results? All of the Microsoft documentation on this switch clearly states that the switch is ignored (does nothing) and that what the switch is supposed to do is already inherent to the operating system, that Xcopy does this automatically with or without the switch. The documentation is wrong, then (or Xcopy has a bug, pick one, I don't care). Maybe NT does do some sort of verify when it writes, though I've never seen this documented in WriteFile() and friends, and I just missing it in the API documentation? If you think that there is a bug in Xcopy then submit your bug to Microsoft. The API's might be documented but what the operating system does with the API calls after it receives them is mostly a closely guarded secret, how files are really copied and verified deep down inside the operating system is probably not something that programmers need to know so unless you want to sign a Non Disclosure Agreement Microsoft will probably not tell you what goes on after the API call is made. The Xcopy /v switch information has been consistent for more than 10 years now, from at least NT 4.0 up to and including Server 2003 *all* the documentation has stated the same thing about the switch's usage. If you think that Microsoft has been wrong about this all along then here again I submit that you should contact them and ask them to correct the errors in their documentation, they may ignore requests to correct documentation about old Windows versions but I am sure that they would certainly correct Server 2003 documentation. Until they correct their documentation I will continue to believe what they say about the switch's use. John |
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#32
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How to set "Verify On" at XP startup ?
"John John (MVP)" wrote:
The Xcopy /v switch information has been consistent for more than 10 years now, from at least NT 4.0 up to and including Server 2003 *all* the documentation has stated the same thing about the switch's usage. Not all. Xcopy /? doesn't agree with the documentation you've referenced. Why is one more correct than the other? -- --------- Scott Seligman scott at firstname and michelle dot net --------- A free society is a place where it's safe to be unpopular. -- Adlai Stevenson |
#33
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How to set "Verify On" at XP startup ?
In message , "John John (MVP)"
writes: [] switch than it does without, not me. All I am telling you is that the /v switch is only accepted for compatibility with MS-DOS and that if it "appears" to be doing things differently it is only a "smoke show" to fool MS-DOS applications into believing that the switch actually does something. All of the Microsoft documentation on this switch clearly states that the switch is ignored (does nothing) and that what the switch is supposed to do is already inherent to the operating system, that Xcopy does this automatically with or without the switch. [] Surely compatibility would only be not giving an error message if you invoke the /v switch? I find it difficult to believe they'd make the command actually _operate_ differently (as I'm satisfied he has shown), if compatibility was all they were worried about: surely they'd just make it ignore whether the switch was there or not, or at least not make it generate an error message such as "invalid switch". Whether the command in question uses completely different code to the copy/move functions intrinsic to the OS, I don't know. -- J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G.5AL(+++)IS-P--Ch+(p)Ar+T[?]H+Sh0!:`)DNAf ** http://www.soft255.demon.co.uk/G6JPG-PC/JPGminPC.htm for ludicrously outdated thoughts on PCs. ** "Bugger," said Pooh, feeling very annoyed. |
#34
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How to set "Verify On" at XP startup ?
Scott Seligman wrote:
"John John (MVP)" wrote: The Xcopy /v switch information has been consistent for more than 10 years now, from at least NT 4.0 up to and including Server 2003 *all* the documentation has stated the same thing about the switch's usage. Not all. Xcopy /? doesn't agree with the documentation you've referenced. Why is one more correct than the other? Microsoft will tell you that when you advise them of their documentation error. Then they will have to package two different utilities, or two different help files and have Xcopy figure out which help files to dish out depending on whether the documentation is read inside the NTVDM or at the 32-bit CLI. |
#35
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How to set "Verify On" at XP startup ?
J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
In message , "John John (MVP)" writes: [] switch than it does without, not me. All I am telling you is that the /v switch is only accepted for compatibility with MS-DOS and that if it "appears" to be doing things differently it is only a "smoke show" to fool MS-DOS applications into believing that the switch actually does something. All of the Microsoft documentation on this switch clearly states that the switch is ignored (does nothing) and that what the switch is supposed to do is already inherent to the operating system, that Xcopy does this automatically with or without the switch. [] Surely compatibility would only be not giving an error message if you invoke the /v switch? I find it difficult to believe they'd make the command actually _operate_ differently (as I'm satisfied he has shown), if compatibility was all they were worried about: surely they'd just make it ignore whether the switch was there or not, or at least not make it generate an error message such as "invalid switch". Whether the command in question uses completely different code to the copy/move functions intrinsic to the OS, I don't know. I'm guessing, but if a 16-bit program asks to use the /v switch it might want to wait or follow operating system routines to make sure that the command completes successfully, as far as I'm concerned the /v switch is just doing a smoke show to convince programs running inside the NTVDM that the switch is doing something and to prevent the 16-bit programs from choking. If you think its doing something else then use the switch and be happy or join in with others and submit your findings to Microsoft. All I know is that Microsoft has been telling us for about 15 years that the switch does nothing on NT versions up to Server 2003, (and according to http://support.microsoft.com/kb/128756 it also doesn't do anything on the legacy W9x systems), I'm having a hard time believing that this information is wrong and has gone on uncorrected for that long. On Vista and Server 2008 Microsoft simply tells us the utility is deprecated. John |
#36
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How to set "Verify On" at XP startup ?
On 8 Dec 2008 07:29:33 -0800, "Scott Seligman"
wrote: "John John (MVP)" wrote: Though, even with that wording it behaves the same was in XP as it does in Vista. No, it doesn't! You can quote help files all day. I'm telling you what it does, where it calls a function to verify the length, on XP and Vista, only if the /V option is specified. Without that option, XCopy does not call the function. Furthermore, I just verified it really does something with the results of that function. I used Detours to modify the behavior of the function it's using to find the file size to return the wrong file size. Without /V, nothing happened, since it never called the function. With /V, xcopy reported "File verification failed.". Well, that's not good. This was the behavior on both XP and Vista. In other words, /V does in fact verify the file size (but not the file contents) on both XP and Vista. |
#37
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How to set "Verify On" at XP startup ?
On Dec 8, 9:53*am, "Scott Seligman" wrote:
"John John (MVP)" wrote: As for NT/2000/XP you can can argue all you want, unless you can provide Microsoft documentation to refute the one that I presented you won't convince me to that the switch works on these operating systems. So, in other words, if the documentation is wrong, you don't care what the programs actually do? That's fine, but I'm just pointing out what Xcopy really does, not what the help files claim in does (Heck, even it's own built in help claims it does something with /V, but in this case, what it claims on XP is wrong). I'm more than happy to agree that the switch was supposed to do nothing at some point, but it in fact does do work. And by the way, your insistance that this switch does work would render your first test (with Process Explorer/Filemon) invalid, if Xcopy does use the switch the results aren't showing in Filemon, your test is flawed and you have not proven that Explorer doesn't verify its file copies. What? *I'm not talking about Explorer. *As I've mentioned it doesn't verify the contents (as verified with Process Monitor, on XP and Vista). *It may verify the file size, but then again, it could just be getting the file size after the copy because it's getting the size information when it adds a file to a list. As for my results with Xcopy, below are two different runs. *Have you seen something different? *As you can see, the second run gets the file information after it's copied, and as I determined with Detours, it actually does care if that doesn't match what it was originally. I'd also be happy to share my Detours project if you'd like. C:\sourcedirdir *Volume in drive C has no label. *Volume Serial Number is 0085-AAC7 *Directory of C:\sourcedir 12/08/2008 *09:51 AM * *DIR * * * * *. 12/08/2008 *09:51 AM * *DIR * * * * *.. 12/08/2008 *09:39 AM * * * * 2,744,087 example * * * * * * * *1 File(s) * * *2,744,087 bytes * * * * * * * *2 Dir(s) *19,497,865,216 bytes free C:\sourcedirxcopy * ..\testdir 1) CreateFile - C:\testdir 2) QueryDirectory - C:\testdir 3) QueryDirectory - C:\testdir 4) CloseFile - C:\testdir 5) CreateFile - C:\testdir\EXAMPLE 6) QueryDirectory - C:\testdir 7) QueryDirectory - C:\testdir 8) QueryDirectory - C:\testdir 9) CreateFile - C:\testdir 10) SetBasicInformationFile - C:\testdir 11) CloseFile - C:\testdir 12) CreateFile - C:\testdir 13) QueryDirectory - C:\testdir\example 14) CloseFile - C:\testdir 15) CreateFile - C:\testdir\example 16) CreateFile - C:\testdir 17) CloseFile - C:\testdir 18) QueryAttributeInformationVolume - C:\testdir\example 19) QueryBasicInformationFile - C:\testdir\example 20) SetEndOfFileInformationFile - C:\testdir\example 21) SetBasicInformationFile - C:\testdir\example 22) WriteFile - C:\testdir\example 23) ... WriteFile repeated ... - C:\testdir\example 63) WriteFile - C:\testdir\example 64) SetBasicInformationFile - C:\testdir\example 65) CloseFile - C:\testdir\example 66) QueryOpen - C:\testdir\example 67) CreateFile - C:\testdir\example 68) SetBasicInformationFile - C:\testdir\example 69) CloseFile - C:\testdir\example 70) CreateFile - C:\testdir 71) QueryDirectory - C:\testdir\example 72) CloseFile - C:\testdir 73) CreateFile - C:\testdir\example 74) SetBasicInformationFile - C:\testdir\example 75) CloseFile - C:\testdir\example C:\sourcedirxcopy /v * ..\testdir 1) CreateFile - C:\testdir 2) QueryDirectory - C:\testdir 3) QueryDirectory - C:\testdir 4) CloseFile - C:\testdir 5) CreateFile - C:\testdir\EXAMPLE 6) QueryDirectory - C:\testdir 7) QueryDirectory - C:\testdir 8) QueryDirectory - C:\testdir 9) CreateFile - C:\testdir 10) SetBasicInformationFile - C:\testdir 11) CloseFile - C:\testdir 12) CreateFile - C:\testdir 13) QueryDirectory - C:\testdir\example 14) CloseFile - C:\testdir 15) CreateFile - C:\testdir\example 16) CreateFile - C:\testdir 17) CloseFile - C:\testdir 18) QueryAttributeInformationVolume - C:\testdir\example 19) QueryBasicInformationFile - C:\testdir\example 20) SetEndOfFileInformationFile - C:\testdir\example 21) SetBasicInformationFile - C:\testdir\example 22) WriteFile - C:\testdir\example 23) ... WriteFile repeated ... - C:\testdir\example 63) WriteFile - C:\testdir\example 64) SetBasicInformationFile - C:\testdir\example 65) CloseFile - C:\testdir\example 66) QueryOpen - C:\testdir\example 67) CreateFile - C:\testdir\example 68) SetBasicInformationFile - C:\testdir\example 69) CloseFile - C:\testdir\example 70) CreateFile - C:\testdir 71) QueryDirectory - C:\testdir\example 72) CloseFile - C:\testdir 73) CreateFile - C:\testdir\example 74) SetBasicInformationFile - C:\testdir\example 75) CloseFile - C:\testdir\example 76) CreateFile - C:\testdir 77) QueryDirectory - C:\testdir\example 78) CloseFile - C:\testdir -- --------- Scott Seligman scott at firstname and michelle dot net --------- * *Money often costs too much. * *-- Ralph Waldo Emerson Do tell us more about your "Detours" project. I surely can learn something out of it !! Thanks in advance !! |
#38
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How to set "Verify On" at XP startup ?
On Fri, 12 Dec 2008 20:46:24 -0800 (PST), Hari Hari Mau
wrote: Do tell us more about your "Detours" project. I surely can learn something out of it !! This isn't a chat room, bozo. |
#39
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How to set "Verify On" at XP startup ?
Hari Hari Mau wrote:
Do tell us more about your "Detours" project. I surely can learn something out of it !! http://research.microsoft.com/en-us/projects/detours/ -- --------- Scott Seligman scott at firstname and michelle dot net --------- Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. -- Benjamin Franklin |
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