Question about telnet commands using nntp protocol on Linux/Windows

Question about telnet commands using nntp protocol on Linux/Windows.

Is there a way to respond to an expired article if you know the message ID?
(assuming only purposefully free newsservers are in use such as neodome)

This is an old Message-ID of my thread from 12/16/2018 about FreedomPop:
o OLD: Message-ID:

This is a new Message-ID of my article from today about FreedomPop:
o NEW: Message-ID:

All I want to do is UPDATE the old thread
o
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!original/comp.mobile.android/uZkl7ny85II/XGtsBWimCQAJ
With the same information that is in the new article above.
o
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!original/comp.mobile.android/G6ZWN1SiJSs/53fw6vQNBAAJ

When I check the free newsservers, the OLD article has expired in all.

{me} telnet news.neodome.net 119
Trying 95.216.243.224...
Connected to neodome.net.
Escape character is '^]'.
200 news.neodome.net InterNetNews NNRP server INN 2.6.3 ready (posting ok)

{me} help
200 news.neodome.net InterNetNews NNRP server INN 2.6.3 ready (posting ok)
100 Legal commands
ARTICLE [message-ID|number]
AUTHINFO USER name|PASS password|GENERIC program [argument ...]
BODY [message-ID|number]
CAPABILITIES [keyword]
COMPRESS DEFLATE
DATE
GROUP newsgroup
HDR header [message-ID|range]
HEAD [message-ID|number]
HELP
IHAVE message-ID
LAST
LIST [ACTIVE [wildmat]|ACTIVE.TIMES [wildmat]|COUNTS
[wildmat]|DISTRIB.PATS|DISTRIBUTIONS|HEADERS
[MSGID|RANGE]|MODERATORS|MOTD|NEWSGROUPS
[wildmat]|OVERVIEW.FMT|SUBSCRIPTIONS [wildmat]]
LISTGROUP [newsgroup [range]]
MODE READER
NEWGROUPS [yy]yymmdd hhmmss [GMT]
NEWNEWS wildmat [yy]yymmdd hhmmss [GMT]
NEXT
OVER [range]
POST
QUIT
STARTTLS
STAT [message-ID|number]
XGTITLE [wildmat]
XHDR header [message-ID|range]
XOVER [range]
XPAT header message-ID|range pattern [pattern ...]
Report problems to .
..

{me} group comp.mobile.android
211 6888 1354 8251 comp.mobile.android

{me} article
220 0 article
Path: news.neodome.net!news.mixmin.net!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: Arlen Holder
Newsgroups: misc.phone.mobile.iphone,comp.mobile.android
Subject: T-Mobile Sprint Merger: Say goodbye to scam calls
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2020 03:19:39 -0000 (UTC)
blah blah blah
..

{me} article
430 No such article

This shows I can easily respond to the new article, but not the old.

In summary, given I simply want to add the new article to the old thread,
without creating a new thread, but just by updating the old thread...

Is there a way, using only the basic known purposefully free newsservers,
to respond to an old expired article via telnet?

On 8/3/20 10:25 PM, Arlen Holder wrote:
Question about telnet commands using nntp protocol on Linux/Windows.

Is there a way to respond to an expired article if you know the message ID?

Use the Message-ID in the References: header.

That should cause threading agents to add the new message to the
existing thread.

(assuming only purposefully free newsservers are in use such as neodome)

It shouldn't matter what news server you use.

All I want to do is UPDATE the old thread

You should be able to add a new message to the existing thread. You
can't replace an old message with a new copy.



--
Grant. . . .
unix || die

Arlen,

Question about telnet commands using nntp protocol on Linux/Windows.

Get a ****ing clue. Your question has ZERO to do with telnet.

Is there a way to respond to an expired article if you know the message
ID?

Just add the message ID at the end of the "References:" entry in the header.
If it does not exist, create it.

.... which you could even have figured out by looking at /any/ of the replies
posted in this newsgroup. Besides reading about it in the NNTP docs
ofcourse.

Regards,
Rudy Wieser

On Mon, 3 Aug 2020 22:41:06 -0600, Grant Taylor wrote:

You should be able to add a new message to the existing thread. You
can't replace an old message with a new copy.

Hi Grant Taylor,

Perfect! https://i.postimg.cc/kGG8W31b/telnetnntp01.jpg

Thanks for the purposefully helpful advice on how to update this thread:
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!msg/comp.mobile.android/uZkl7ny85II/XGtsBWimCQAJ

I had not realized it was that simple, as I generally run telnet scripts.

To be clear, Marek wrote most of my telnet scripts (which include over
5,000 VPN servers, and killswitches, dictionary lookups, etc., so I wasn't
sure how it was done when there isn't a specific message-id that the
scripts attain, ad hoc, from the free newsserver, on their own.

I was successful using your purposefully helpful advice, using this
pseudocode (for illustrative purposes) below, so others always benefit:

{me} telnet nntp.aioe.net 119
{me} group comp.mobile.android
{me} post
{it} 340 Ok, recommended message-ID
{me} from: Arlen Holder
{me} newsgroups: comp.mobile.android
{me} subject: Do you use FreedomPop in the USA? If so, what are the details?
{me} message-id:
{me} references:
{me} blank line
I include the desired update message body here
{me} .
{me} quit

It seems to have worked in that typical permanent archives were updated:
o https://groups.google.com/forum/#!msg/comp.mobile.android/uZkl7ny85II/XGtsBWimCQAJ
o https://comp.mobile.android.narkive.com/c6M64Wr0/do-you-use-freedompop-in-the-usa-if-so-what-are-the-details

Where I didn't know what would happen if I used multiple message-id's in
the reference header, so I used only the one message-id from the original
post.
o https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.mobile.android/uZkl7ny85II/b-W2UAM1BAAJ
o https://comp.mobile.android.narkive.com/c6M64Wr0/do-you-use-freedompop-in-the-usa-if-so-what-are-the-details#post8

Where a simple search will find the thread, including the belated update:
o https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/comp.mobile.android/freedompop
o https://narkive.com/search?q=freedompop (I don't know how to do a ng-only search)

It didn't actually go that smoothly simply due to the cut-and-paste into
the Windows Subsystem for Linux isn't necessarily intuitive, and, for
whatever reason, today, the neodome server was down, but nonetheless, your
purposefully helpful advice still worked the very first time I tried it!
o https://i.postimg.cc/kGG8W31b/telnetnntp01.jpg

The reason why it matters is that my goal on Usenet is to create useful
permanent archives of (tons of) tutorials and answers to questions and
freeware reviews, etc., so what I want is to APPEND to a thread (however
old) whatever new information is found to SOLVE the problem set (i.e., I
didn't want to create a new thread).

Now, when someone searches the permanent archives, they can find the new
update inside the old thread, without having to look at multiple threads:
o http://tinyurl.com/comp-mobile-android
o http://comp.mobile.android.narkive.com

In fact, it seems someone already posted an update to my update, which
means the thread can continue to provide the value it originally intended.

Thanks for being purposefully helpful in answering the given question.
--
2 kinds of people post to Usenet: Those who add value; and those who chat.

On Tue, 4 Aug 2020 09:23:13 +0200, R.Wieser wrote:

Get a ****ing clue.

Hi Rudy,

I know you well, hence I was gonna just ignore you, but, in the hope you
can someday actually learn how adults act on Usenet, I would like you to
take a look at how _adults_ answered the question, over here earlier today:

o *Is there a way to respond to an expired article if you know the message ID?*
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/news.software.readers/wCuH27s14eQ
--
There are two kinds of people on Usenet, only one of which adds value.

On 8/4/20 1:45 PM, Arlen Holder wrote:
Hi Grant Taylor,

Hi,

Perfect! https://i.postimg.cc/kGG8W31b/telnetnntp01.jpg

I'm glad that it worked the way that you wanted it to.

Thanks for the purposefully helpful advice on how to update this thread:

You're welcome.

I've often said, if someone politely asks reasonable question, you
should (try to) provide a reasonable answer /to/ /the/ /question/ that
they asked.

If you have experience that might suggest that acting on the answer
might not be the best course of action, try to explain why something
might be sub-optimal or why something else might be better.

I had not realized it was that simple, as I generally run telnet scripts.

;-)

It didn't actually go that smoothly simply due to the cut-and-paste into
the Windows Subsystem for Linux isn't necessarily intuitive, and, for
whatever reason, today, the neodome server was down, but nonetheless, your
purposefully helpful advice still worked the very first time I tried it!
o https://i.postimg.cc/kGG8W31b/telnetnntp01.jpg

Things rarely go as smoothly as we think they should.

My personal and professional opinion is that Mr. Murphy likes to put
additional hurdles in your path if things are otherwise going smoothly.

The reason why it matters is that my goal on Usenet is to create useful
permanent archives of (tons of) tutorials and answers to questions and
freeware reviews, etc., so what I want is to APPEND to a thread (however
old) whatever new information is found to SOLVE the problem set (i.e., I
didn't want to create a new thread).

Be prepared for people to reply to you with their opinion about replying
to an old post.

Now, when someone searches the permanent archives, they can find the new
update inside the old thread, without having to look at multiple threads:

In fact, it seems someone already posted an update to my update, which
means the thread can continue to provide the value it originally intended.

That's one of the benefits of newsgroups and mailing lists. They can
function as an archive of knowledge.

Thanks for being purposefully helpful in answering the given question.

You're welcome.



--
Grant. . . .
unix || die

On Tue, 4 Aug 2020 21:48:52 -0600, Grant Taylor wrote:

Be prepared for people to reply to you with their opinion about replying
to an old post.

Hi Grant,

Yup. We've all seen billions of those, where it's usually someone from GG
who responds to a query asking for help, which is long dead, and then
someone chastises them for answering the person, saying that the OP is no
longer even alive (for all they know).

In this situation, it's an UPDATE to my own thread, which is a different
situation since its goal is to simply update the original question with new
information, all of which is easily found as a single thread, in the
aforementioned DejaGoogle & Narkive 'permanent' Usenet archives.

Mike Easter, for example, in a.o.l, already assessed the goal was "silly",
where I wrote up why I understood why he thought that, and I added
additional considerations that I wasn't sure whether he had taken into
account (I'm awaiting his response) when he made that early assessment.

Such things happen on Usenet, where it takes a bit of ping pong to lay out
all the factual considerations on each side of the problem set & solution.

If you're interested, Mike's post, (only to a.o.l) for example, is he
o https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.os.linux/xvlu-DdVFWI/9Gpn8hEzDAAJ

Where my detailed response (respecting his a.o.l followup) is he
o https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.os.linux/xvlu-DdVFWI/-fSDirjFAQAJ

Mike and I have known each other (over Usenet) for quite a long time, so I
expect him to give me ideas I hadn't thought of, where if there's a BETTER
way to update an old tutorial posted to Usenet, for example, I'm all ears.
--
Usenet is a great way for adults to publicly share knowledge worldwide

Arlen,

I know you well, hence I was gonna just ignore you,

Yeah, as you are doing just now. :-D

And you're lucky Grant already gave you what you needed, otherwise you would
have had to use mine. :-p

There are two kinds of people on Usenet, only one of which adds value.

Trying to sound "smurt" again ? Fail.
A cow is an animal, but not all animals are cows ....

Regards,
Rudy Wieser

On Wed, 5 Aug 2020 09:56:02 +0200, R.Wieser wrote:

And you're lucky Grant already gave you what you needed, otherwise you would
have had to use mine.

SOLVED:

As always to help others, now and in the future, along with myself, for
those who need to respond to an expired article, two newsreaders were said
to be capable in this concurrent thread on the newsreader newsgroup:
o http://tinyurl.com/news-software-readers
o http://news.software.readers.narkive.com

The two newsreaders which are said to edit the proto article's headers a
o pan https://groups.google.com/d/msg/news.software.readers/wCuH27s14eQ/9Q_HyBJNBQAJ
o trn https://groups.google.com/d/msg/news.software.readers/wCuH27s14eQ/kqIQB48gBQAJ

Cross platform downloads:
o pan http://pan.rebelbase.com/
o trn https://sourceforge.net/projects/trn/
--
Yes, I know, we all extensively used rn, tin & trn in the olden days...

SOLVED (Note: All questions on Usenet should have answers updated!)
(It's a common courtesy, and payback for all the help provided.)
(At least one ng should be dejagoogled, for efficient re-use.)

These "newsreaders" are said by others to solve the problem set:
1. trn (manually edit the header in the trn composer window)
2. slrn (brings up the References header in the editing window by default)
3. pan (manually edit the header in the draft ~/.pan2/article-drafts)
4. Thunderbird (add as optional header & choose it in message composition)
5. (emacs)gnus (remove References from message-hidden-headers to edit)
6. bystand (allows arbitrary creation of any desired header line)
7. telnet (manually include the header while typing the proto article)

Where all of which make use of the Message-ID in the References header:
References: parent@id 4th@id 3rd@id 2nd@id 1st@id

Pseudocode:
telnet nntp.aioe.org 119
post
from: Arlen Holder
newsgroups: comp.mobile.android
subject: Do you use FreedomPop in the USA? If so, what are the details?
message-id:
references:
insert a blank line
The message body goes here.

In article ,
Arlen Holder wrote:
SOLVED (Note: All questions on Usenet should have answers updated!)
(It's a common courtesy, and payback for all the help provided.)
(At least one ng should be dejagoogled, for efficient re-use.)

These "newsreaders" are said by others to solve the problem set:

Why scare quotes for newsreaders?

--
1) The only professionals who refer to their customers as "users" are
computer guys and drug dealers.
2) The only professionals who refer to their customers as "clients" are
lawyers and prostitutes.

On Sat, 8 Aug 2020 11:02:33 -0000 (UTC), Kenny McCormack wrote:

Why scare quotes for newsreaders?

Good question.

Some of the items are masquerading as newsreaders, e.g., one of the items
was telnet, which happens to be my "newsreader".

More specifically telnet/vim is my "newsreader", and has been, for years.
o How many people would consider telnet/vim to be a bona fide newsreader?

Telnet/vim works well for me as a newsreader, and more importantly, telnet
is well illustrative as a newsreader since it does exactly what was needed
to be done; but most people wouldn't consider telnet/vim to be a
newsreader, so I put it in standoff quotes.
--
My telnet "newsreader" also includes vpn/stunnel as integral components.

On Sat, 8 Aug 2020 12:41:52 -0000 (UTC), Arlen Holder wrote:

Some of the items are masquerading as newsreaders, e.g., one of the items
was telnet, which happens to be my "newsreader".

I belatedly realized I said 'some' but only outlined one.

The entire point of Usenet is to create working solutions to problems
such as this nice solution to the stated problem set of expired articles:
o Is there a way to respond to an expired article if you know the message ID?
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/news.software.readers/wCuH27s14eQ

In that solution, another so-called newsreader that edits References
headers was said to be "bystand", which I had not heard of prior:

"I know of at least one more newsreader which supports this, which is
bystand (my own newsreader). When a new proto article is created,
it will fill in the headers (except the "Date" header, which is added
when it is ready to send), quotation, and signature, automatically,
and then allows you to edit it arbitrarily (I use Vim, although you
can use any text editor to edit the proto article)."
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/news.software.readers/wCuH27s14eQ/UyAZekV4BAAJ

That author also suggested, along the lines of many of my tutorials & FAQs:

"A table of comparison of NNTP software can be made up, and this could
be one of the features included in the table. (Footnotes can also be
added in cases such as pan where it would be done in a separate file)"

While that's something I'm want to do, it's not something I think I can
maintain, so I'll leave the list at the half-dozen "newsreader" solutions.

Given your apropos question, I hope I answered with sufficient detail,
where Mike Easter also had a question of the need which is answered he
o https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.os.linux/xvlu-DdVFWI/-fSDirjFAQAJ

Note: I'm still awaiting Mike's confirmation of receipt of that response.
--
On Usenet, the goal is to create permanent archives of useful solutions.

On Sat, 8 Aug 2020 18:36:35 -0000 (UTC), Arlen Holder wrote:

While that's something I'm want to do,

Aurgh!

"wont"
--
Lests the always worthless pieces of **** like Rudy Wieser assert their
self-ascribed "intelligence" by claiming they found a typo mistake.