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XP PID and UPDATE, Please Help



 
 
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  #16  
Old December 16th 08, 02:09 AM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
What Now
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 26
Default XP PID and UPDATE, Please Help

FTR, here is a link to Dell's instructions and there is no option to
repair an installation, only reinstall a new copy where you have to
start from scratch. Three fourths of the way down the page is a link
that you cna mouse over for a picture of the disc that came with the
laptop.

http://support.dell.com/support/topi...s=bsd#osri_man

I'm thinking I just won't bother updating this OS, period, and leave
it like it is, unless a slipstream is possible and I can get an OEM
back on by a repair option. Otherwise I'll live without the updates.
Ads
  #17  
Old December 16th 08, 06:03 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Mark Adams[_2_]
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Posts: 1,008
Default XP PID and UPDATE, Please Help



"What Now" wrote:

FTR, here is a link to Dell's instructions and there is no option to
repair an installation, only reinstall a new copy where you have to
start from scratch. Three fourths of the way down the page is a link
that you cna mouse over for a picture of the disc that came with the
laptop.

http://support.dell.com/support/topi...s=bsd#osri_man

I'm thinking I just won't bother updating this OS, period, and leave
it like it is, unless a slipstream is possible and I can get an OEM
back on by a repair option. Otherwise I'll live without the updates.

I found this in the Microsoft Knowledge Base:
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx/kb/892893. Maybe you can boot to
Recovery Console and replace Userinit.exe as explained in the article. On the
other hand, if you've already done a repair install with your retail CD and
used the product key that is also on your desktop, the deed is already done
and you will have a problem with activation if you have WGA on the desktop.
If you don't have WGA on the desktop and it has been more than 120 days since
you last activated or validated, then the laptop should activate with the
same product key. Set Automatic Updates on both computers to "Notify me of
updates but do not download" and do not let WGA install on either computer.
All critical updates, patches, and service packs will still be available for
download.
  #18  
Old December 16th 08, 08:34 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
What Now
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 26
Default XP PID and UPDATE, Please Help

On Tue, 16 Dec 2008 09:03:02 -0800, Mark Adams
wrote:

I found this in the Microsoft Knowledge Base:
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx/kb/892893. Maybe you can boot to
Recovery Console and replace Userinit.exe as explained in the article. On the
other hand, if you've already done a repair install with your retail CD and
used the product key that is also on your desktop, the deed is already done
and you will have a problem with activation if you have WGA on the desktop.
If you don't have WGA on the desktop and it has been more than 120 days since
you last activated or validated, then the laptop should activate with the
same product key. Set Automatic Updates on both computers to "Notify me of
updates but do not download" and do not let WGA install on either computer.
All critical updates, patches, and service packs will still be available for
download.


Mark, you have been very helpful. Yes, the deed has already been done,
as I needed the laptop ASAP and only spent a weekend trying to find an
answer... the best I arrived at was repairing with the retail CD.

I will do as you instructed. Thank you for your time and pateince.

I am still interested in knowing if I could slipstream the repair
option in the retail CD to a copy of my OEM disc, however, as I prefer
to have the right product keys on the right machines so that this
doesn't come back to bite me in the ass later. Do you happen to know
if it would work?

Thanks again....

  #19  
Old December 16th 08, 09:22 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
What Now
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 26
Default XP PID and UPDATE, Please Help

On Tue, 16 Dec 2008 11:34:43 -0800, What Now
wrote:

On Tue, 16 Dec 2008 09:03:02 -0800, Mark Adams
wrote:

I found this in the Microsoft Knowledge Base:
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx/kb/892893. Maybe you can boot to
Recovery Console and replace Userinit.exe as explained in the article. On the
other hand, if you've already done a repair install with your retail CD and
used the product key that is also on your desktop, the deed is already done
and you will have a problem with activation if you have WGA on the desktop.


I didn't realize what WGA was when I first read this, but it's that
tool that MS uses to ensure the OS is not pirated, right? The last
time I tried to do updates on the desktop (8 months ago maybe), MS
said I could not get updates without using this verification tool. So
as much as I hated it, I allowed it. So yes, the desktop HAS been
scanned or whatever with the " Genuine Windows tool" if that's what
you're referring to here. I wish I hadn't done it. I didn't WANT to.
But I didn't know I had a choice.

If you don't have WGA on the desktop and it has been more than 120 days since
you last activated or validated, then the laptop should activate with the
same product key.


FTR, I never activated either OS. I use a tool to trick Windows into
thinking they're activated. Again, imo the anti-piracy tools MS uses
are a gross invasion of privacy, and I avoid them whenever possible.

Set Automatic Updates on both computers to "Notify me of
updates but do not download" and do not let WGA install on either computer.
All critical updates, patches, and service packs will still be available for
download.


Sorry... I'm a little lost. How can you [even manually] download the
update files that you need w/o letting MS verify that you're using
Genuine Windows? It was when I tried to DL updates manually for the
desktop that it would not let me proceed without pulling my pants
down.
  #20  
Old December 16th 08, 09:39 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Mark Adams[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,008
Default XP PID and UPDATE, Please Help



"What Now" wrote:

On Tue, 16 Dec 2008 09:03:02 -0800, Mark Adams
wrote:

I found this in the Microsoft Knowledge Base:
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx/kb/892893. Maybe you can boot to
Recovery Console and replace Userinit.exe as explained in the article. On the
other hand, if you've already done a repair install with your retail CD and
used the product key that is also on your desktop, the deed is already done
and you will have a problem with activation if you have WGA on the desktop.
If you don't have WGA on the desktop and it has been more than 120 days since
you last activated or validated, then the laptop should activate with the
same product key. Set Automatic Updates on both computers to "Notify me of
updates but do not download" and do not let WGA install on either computer.
All critical updates, patches, and service packs will still be available for
download.


Mark, you have been very helpful. Yes, the deed has already been done,
as I needed the laptop ASAP and only spent a weekend trying to find an
answer... the best I arrived at was repairing with the retail CD.

I will do as you instructed. Thank you for your time and pateince.

I am still interested in knowing if I could slipstream the repair
option in the retail CD to a copy of my OEM disc, however, as I prefer
to have the right product keys on the right machines so that this
doesn't come back to bite me in the ass later. Do you happen to know
if it would work?

Thanks again....


I think this may solve your activation issue. It looks like you can make
more than one install from the same disk and product key, and then change the
key during activation to a key that you already have. Since you do have a
legitimate product key for your laptop, I don't see why this wouldn't work.
Check out the KB article. http://support.microsoft.com/kb/810892

As far as the slipstream question goes, I don't know if that can be done. My
experience with slipstreaming was limited to burning lots of coasters, though
I did manage to finally integrate SP2 into my SP1 CD!

Let me know how the activation goes.
  #21  
Old December 16th 08, 10:14 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
What Now
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 26
Default XP PID and UPDATE, Please Help

On Tue, 16 Dec 2008 12:39:18 -0800, Mark Adams
wrote:


I think this may solve your activation issue. It looks like you can make
more than one install from the same disk and product key, and then change the
key during activation to a key that you already have. Since you do have a
legitimate product key for your laptop, I don't see why this wouldn't work.
Check out the KB article. http://support.microsoft.com/kb/810892


Thanks for your time in trying to help me, but I already tried this.
And several other tools. The problem is that a retail installation of
XP (that is, an installation from a retail MS CD), will not accept an
OEM product key. I've been told this by MS reps after trying the
above. Only an OEM installation will accept an OEM key. That's why I
need to reinstall over my OS with an OEM CD, and I can't do that,
because OEM CDs don't offer that option, which is a "repair." They
only reinstall the entire system, removing all programs, tweaks, etc,
making you start froim scratch. As explained before, the OEM CD will
not boot into a DOS-type environment if Windows is installed, and if I
boot into Windows then ask the OEM CD to install anything, it tells me
it "cannot upgrade this version of Windows" -- meaning a retail
version. Cause otherwise they are the same version of the same OS.

As far as the slipstream question goes, I don't know if that can be done. My
experience with slipstreaming was limited to burning lots of coasters, though
I did manage to finally integrate SP2 into my SP1 CD!


;-) I had much success with nLite, slipstreaming my OEM CD with
hotfixes and upgraded Dell drivers, plus standard desktop tweaks. Too
bad when I needed to repair that installation the disc did me no good!

I am going to pursue the idea of slipstreaming repair options to the
OEM CD. If I get anywhere, I'll report back, if anyone is curious.

I *am* still curious if it is possible to download updates without
using WGA. I built my computer and made it pretty future proof, but
might like to upgrade the mobo or add much larger drives before too
long. When I do this, I'll be damned if I'm going to call MS to
explain why the PD Key no longer matches the hardware. Similarly, I
want to put a larger HD in the laptop next month.... changing just one
component might not create a problem, but you never know. IAC, CAN yu
get downloads without WGA? I *did* use autopatcher (IIRC) or one of
the alternative Window update sites when it was available, but MS
brought a suit. I know there are others now.... but when I looked into
it, the one I was investigating also required you allow WGA before
downloading anything. The new sites seem to be GUIs to MS's site, as
MS didn't want their material distributed from other sites (which I
can understand as the files could be compromised). However, this
allows MS to insist on the WGA again.... :-/
  #22  
Old December 17th 08, 12:47 AM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
PA Bear [MS MVP]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 9,010
Default XP PID and UPDATE, Please Help

If you're running WinXP SP2 or SP3, Automatic Updates will work "without
WGA" but not Windows Update website.

What Now wrote:
snip
I *am* still curious if it is possible to download updates without
using WGA...


  #23  
Old December 17th 08, 01:17 AM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Mark Adams[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,008
Default XP PID and UPDATE, Please Help



"What Now" wrote:

On Tue, 16 Dec 2008 11:34:43 -0800, What Now
wrote:

On Tue, 16 Dec 2008 09:03:02 -0800, Mark Adams
wrote:

I found this in the Microsoft Knowledge Base:
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx/kb/892893. Maybe you can boot to
Recovery Console and replace Userinit.exe as explained in the article. On the
other hand, if you've already done a repair install with your retail CD and
used the product key that is also on your desktop, the deed is already done
and you will have a problem with activation if you have WGA on the desktop.


I didn't realize what WGA was when I first read this, but it's that
tool that MS uses to ensure the OS is not pirated, right? The last
time I tried to do updates on the desktop (8 months ago maybe), MS
said I could not get updates without using this verification tool. So
as much as I hated it, I allowed it. So yes, the desktop HAS been
scanned or whatever with the " Genuine Windows tool" if that's what
you're referring to here. I wish I hadn't done it. I didn't WANT to.
But I didn't know I had a choice.

If you don't have WGA on the desktop and it has been more than 120 days since
you last activated or validated, then the laptop should activate with the
same product key.


FTR, I never activated either OS. I use a tool to trick Windows into
thinking they're activated. Again, imo the anti-piracy tools MS uses
are a gross invasion of privacy, and I avoid them whenever possible.

Set Automatic Updates on both computers to "Notify me of
updates but do not download" and do not let WGA install on either computer.
All critical updates, patches, and service packs will still be available for
download.


Sorry... I'm a little lost. How can you [even manually] download the
update files that you need w/o letting MS verify that you're using
Genuine Windows? It was when I tried to DL updates manually for the
desktop that it would not let me proceed without pulling my pants
down.

Whenever I install XP, I install SP2 and SP3 before I install any drivers
for the mainboard. Then, before I go online I go to Control Panel, Automatic
Updates and set Windows to "Notify me of updates but do not install". I then
make sure the Windows firewall is turned on. Next, I put the chipset drivers,
video, LAN, audio, wireless- whatever drivers. Then I go online and activate
Windows. When the activation is done, within a miniute or two a little yellow
shield appears in the system tray that says there updates to install. Click
on the shield and a window opens that allows "Express install" or "Custom
install". DO NOT CLIK EXPRESS. That is how you install WGA. Click Custom and
another box opens that allows you to choose which updates to download and
install; uncheck the ones you don't want. If another box opens that says you
need to install an update before continuing, that's WGA. This is probably
what you saw when you tried to update. Scroll down a little further and you
will see a description of the install identifying it as WGA. Uncheck the box
and set the installer not to notify you of this update again. Once you clear
this hurdle, the rest of the updates become available and you can download
and install to your heart's desire. Always choose "Custom" when updates are
available. I'm guessing you can't get the updates because the hack you use to
disable activation also somehow disables the ability to update. Honestly, if
you have genuine product keys for both computers, you don't need the hack.
You don't really need to worry about WGA on the desktop either, unless you
are pirating the product key for other computers. I don't allow WGA on my
computers because I consider it to be a type of spyware that "phones home"
regularly. This is how WGA works, by constantly reactivating windows, 120
days can never pass so that key will be caught if it's put on another
computer. Some other Microsoft downloads like IE7 and Media Player 11 require
"validation" before download. I think this is the same thing as activation,
it checks to see if there has been a different computer activated with the
same key within the last 120 days, if there has, it won't allow the download.
I've never had a problem with activation, but I also have legit product keys
that came with the OS disks I've purchased. I hope this clears things up a
bit.
  #24  
Old December 17th 08, 03:49 AM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
What Now
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 26
Default XP PID and UPDATE, Please Help

On Tue, 16 Dec 2008 18:47:15 -0500, "PA Bear [MS MVP]"
wrote:

If you're running WinXP SP2 or SP3, Automatic Updates will work "without
WGA" but not Windows Update website.


Thanks....
  #25  
Old December 17th 08, 04:31 AM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
What Now
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 26
Default XP PID and UPDATE, Please Help

Okay... I went to Start -- Help & Support -- Pick A Task: Windows
Update, and asked it to look for updates. I got the two buttons,
Express and Custom. I clicked Custom and got this:
---- paste ----

Windows Update

To use this latest version of Windows Update, you will need to upgrade
some of its components. This version provides you with the following
enhancements to our service:


Express and custom installation: Choose only the most recent critical
updates or pick and choose from all available updates.

Smarter downloads: If downloading is interrupted, the process will
start up where it left off the next time you download that update.

Smaller downloads: Only the files your computer needs are downloaded,
saving download time and connection-speed costs.

One version: Only the most recent updates are offered to you.

Less clutter: You can now hide updates you don't want to see.

Update news: A News from Microsoft section on the Windows Update home
page displays tips and the latest information.

Details

Windows Genuine Advantage Validation Tool (KB892130)
1.1 MB , less than 1 minute
The Windows Genuine Advantage Validation Tool enables you to verify
that your copy of Microsoft Windows is genuine. The tool validates
your Windows installation by checking Windows Product Identification
and Product Activation status.



Update for Windows XP (KB898461)
477 KB , less than 1 minute
This update installs a permanent copy of Package Installer for Windows
to enable software updates to have a significantly smaller download
size. The Package Installer facilitates the install of software
updates for Microsoft Windows operating systems and other Microsoft
products. After you install this update, you may have to restart your
system.


Total: 1.5 MB , less than 1 minute


Download and Install Now [button]


-----end paste ----

There was no way to de-select the WGA. :-(

But remember getting the type of screen you were talking about with
radio buttons that you could select or deselect to choose which things
you wanted to download (a long time ago on the desktop... which was
also activated with the hack tool, so I know that's not it)

POOEY.
  #26  
Old December 17th 08, 04:43 AM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
What Now
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 26
Default XP PID and UPDATE, Please Help

On Tue, 16 Dec 2008 19:31:47 -0800, What Now
wrote:

Okay... I went to Start -- Help & Support -- Pick A Task: Windows
Update, and asked it to look for updates. I got the two buttons,
Express and Custom. I clicked Custom and got this:
---- paste ----

Windows Update

[...]

Okay... this is bizarre.... after I closed out that screen cause I
didn't wanna DL WGA, I noticed the little gold shield in the systray,
like you said, and clicked on it. In THAT box there was only the ONE
program listed with a check mark (i.e. it had the ability to chose or
not chose it) -- no WGA in sight -- so I okay'd it to DL. It was the
update that's supposed to make Windows Updater better.

Then I went back to Help & Support and clicked on Windows Update
again, and after a few sec's got the two buttons again, Express and
Custom, and clicked Custom, and after a few secs got the same exact
screen I pasted here a minute ago, with WGA and the other update FOR
Windows Update that I had just downloaded.

Maybe I need to reboot.

And no yellow shield this time after closing Support.
  #27  
Old December 17th 08, 05:04 AM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
What Now
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 26
Default XP PID and UPDATE, Please Help

Nevermind! I rebooted and the shield appeared with the ability to
choose express or custom, and then it listed all the updates with tick
boxes, just like you said. WGA did not appear in any of them.

This is great, thanks so much Mark. Now I can get updates without
waiting, and am still in control of the process. This lesson alone was
worth all the trouble of losing the userinit.exe file!

I did not choose to DL IE7 or SP3 yet, as I want to make sure SP3
isn't going to screw anything up. I've had enough troubleshooting for
the month, particularly with Xmas coming and relatives arriving next
Monday. Maybe I'll do that one next time.

If you were here I'd take you out for a drink or to Starbucks --
whatever be your poison. Hell, I'd smoke a cigar!

Thanks again!!

(Though I will still look to get the right key on here, this makes
life easier in the meantime, and makes me feel more secure
software-wise, to be updated, since my retail CD is like 3 yrs old...
so I knew I was missing a lot of fixes!)
  #28  
Old December 17th 08, 07:55 AM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
PA Bear [MS MVP]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 9,010
Default XP PID and UPDATE, Please Help

Repost:
If you're running WinXP SP2 or SP3, Automatic Updates will work "without
WGA" but not Windows Update website.


What Now wrote:
Okay... I went to Start -- Help & Support -- Pick A Task: Windows
Update, and asked it to look for updates. I got the two buttons,
Express and Custom. I clicked Custom and got this:
---- paste ----

Windows Update

To use this latest version of Windows Update, you will need to upgrade
some of its components. This version provides you with the following
enhancements to our service:


Express and custom installation: Choose only the most recent critical
updates or pick and choose from all available updates.

Smarter downloads: If downloading is interrupted, the process will
start up where it left off the next time you download that update.

Smaller downloads: Only the files your computer needs are downloaded,
saving download time and connection-speed costs.

One version: Only the most recent updates are offered to you.

Less clutter: You can now hide updates you don't want to see.

Update news: A News from Microsoft section on the Windows Update home
page displays tips and the latest information.

Details

Windows Genuine Advantage Validation Tool (KB892130)
1.1 MB , less than 1 minute
The Windows Genuine Advantage Validation Tool enables you to verify
that your copy of Microsoft Windows is genuine. The tool validates
your Windows installation by checking Windows Product Identification
and Product Activation status.



Update for Windows XP (KB898461)
477 KB , less than 1 minute
This update installs a permanent copy of Package Installer for Windows
to enable software updates to have a significantly smaller download
size. The Package Installer facilitates the install of software
updates for Microsoft Windows operating systems and other Microsoft
products. After you install this update, you may have to restart your
system.


Total: 1.5 MB , less than 1 minute


Download and Install Now [button]


-----end paste ----

There was no way to de-select the WGA. :-(

But remember getting the type of screen you were talking about with
radio buttons that you could select or deselect to choose which things
you wanted to download (a long time ago on the desktop... which was
also activated with the hack tool, so I know that's not it)

POOEY.

 




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