why backup?

In article ,
says...

Leythos wrote:
In article ,
says...
Backups are worthless if your computer is stolen/lost because you cannot
just restore the backup to a new computer's disk drive. You have to have
all the !@#$ installation disks to make the registry correct. - true or
false?

False, backups are not actually for the OS, unless you have the same
computer, they are for all of the DATA you have on the computer - like
your Itunes, Documents, Pictures, and all the other things you have.

With all the downloaded programs and "updates" a data only solution is
not very interesting nor useful for migrating.

There is a new solution that obsolesces what we used to know. Here's
what I have found: a full system backup including OS can be "run" on a
virtual OS (or even on a separate bootable drive) under another
operating system on another computer. e.g. WinXP under Win7.

And we're in a XP group, so we're talking about Workstations or home
computers, so, the importance of a DATA backup, to save users files, is
very important.

I've never actually run into a home user that did backups before I met
them, and the reason I met most of them was a failure/corruption that
toasted their data/OS and they lost everything because they didn't know
how to recover anything and that didn't have a backup.

There have been FEW times that the OS/System State backup has saved
anyone on a Workstation, but, having a backup of the Profile and User
files is always a good thing - if you use Outlook and don't save your
profile folders during backup you may not recover your PST file....

Programs and OS can be reloaded, but you can't recover YOUR data if you
don't have a backup and the drive is dead.

--
You can't trust your best friends, your five senses, only the little
voice inside you that most civilians don't even hear -- Listen to that.
Trust yourself.
(remove 999 for proper email address)

In article ,
says...

Leythos wrote:
In article ,
says...
Backups are worthless if your computer is stolen/lost because you cannot
just restore the backup to a new computer's disk drive. You have to have
all the !@#$ installation disks to make the registry correct. - true or
false?

False, backups are not actually for the OS, unless you have the same
computer, they are for all of the DATA you have on the computer - like
your Itunes, Documents, Pictures, and all the other things you have.

With all the downloaded programs and "updates" a data only solution is
not very interesting nor useful for migrating.

There is a new solution that obsolesces what we used to know. Here's
what I have found: a full system backup including OS can be "run" on a
virtual OS (or even on a separate bootable drive) under another
operating system on another computer. e.g. WinXP under Win7.

And we're in a XP group, so we're talking about Workstations or home
computers, so, the importance of a DATA backup, to save users files, is
very important.

I've never actually run into a home user that did backups before I met
them, and the reason I met most of them was a failure/corruption that
toasted their data/OS and they lost everything because they didn't know
how to recover anything and that didn't have a backup.

There have been FEW times that the OS/System State backup has saved
anyone on a Workstation, but, having a backup of the Profile and User
files is always a good thing - if you use Outlook and don't save your
profile folders during backup you may not recover your PST file....

Programs and OS can be reloaded, but you can't recover YOUR data if you
don't have a backup and the drive is dead.

--
You can't trust your best friends, your five senses, only the little
voice inside you that most civilians don't even hear -- Listen to that.
Trust yourself.
(remove 999 for proper email address)

On Fri, 9 Oct 2009 17:56:31 -0700, "Anthony Buckland"
wrote:


"Ken Blake, MVP" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 9 Oct 2009 13:57:41 -0700, "Anthony Buckland"
wrote:
...
This would be my strategy. Use an imaging program
such as Acronis True Image. Make sure you burn a
backup CD so you can run TI on any computer with
a system that recognizes it. Adopt a long-term stategy,
as I have, of keeping all software you download on-line in a
folder in My Documents.


That's fine, and I'm by no means against doing that. However, backup
strategy is really a very different issue from what the OP's question
was about.
...

OK. So, why backup? Because one way or another, you are
likely in the long term to be screwed, nailed and riveted if you
don't. The effort to make backups, once and regularly, is dwarfed
by the cost, once doom occurs, of not having backed up.
The cost of backing up a couple of hundres gigabytes, including
hardware, software and learning time, could be nothing compared
to the cost of losing a half-completed novel. One that could be
sold, that is.


I agree completely. You (and others here) might like to read this
article I've written on the subject:
http://www.computorcompanion.com/LPMArticle.asp?ID=314




Or, on a more mundane note, the cost of losing the financial data
required for your startup's first tax return.

Remember the last tornado disaster on your favorite channel's
news? Again and again, people lament losing the family's
photos, or celebrate having saved them from the splintered
lumber that used to be their home. Some data is worth a
great deal, perhaps an unlimited deal, of saving.

Backups is how, for people who don't live in a nuclear-war
shelter, you save such data. One document, of a few
hundred kilobytes, can make saving those couple of hundred
gigs worthwhile.


--
Ken Blake, Microsoft MVP (Windows Desktop Experience) since 2003
Please Reply to the Newsgroup

On Fri, 9 Oct 2009 17:56:31 -0700, "Anthony Buckland"
wrote:


"Ken Blake, MVP" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 9 Oct 2009 13:57:41 -0700, "Anthony Buckland"
wrote:
...
This would be my strategy. Use an imaging program
such as Acronis True Image. Make sure you burn a
backup CD so you can run TI on any computer with
a system that recognizes it. Adopt a long-term stategy,
as I have, of keeping all software you download on-line in a
folder in My Documents.


That's fine, and I'm by no means against doing that. However, backup
strategy is really a very different issue from what the OP's question
was about.
...

OK. So, why backup? Because one way or another, you are
likely in the long term to be screwed, nailed and riveted if you
don't. The effort to make backups, once and regularly, is dwarfed
by the cost, once doom occurs, of not having backed up.
The cost of backing up a couple of hundres gigabytes, including
hardware, software and learning time, could be nothing compared
to the cost of losing a half-completed novel. One that could be
sold, that is.


I agree completely. You (and others here) might like to read this
article I've written on the subject:
http://www.computorcompanion.com/LPMArticle.asp?ID=314




Or, on a more mundane note, the cost of losing the financial data
required for your startup's first tax return.

Remember the last tornado disaster on your favorite channel's
news? Again and again, people lament losing the family's
photos, or celebrate having saved them from the splintered
lumber that used to be their home. Some data is worth a
great deal, perhaps an unlimited deal, of saving.

Backups is how, for people who don't live in a nuclear-war
shelter, you save such data. One document, of a few
hundred kilobytes, can make saving those couple of hundred
gigs worthwhile.


--
Ken Blake, Microsoft MVP (Windows Desktop Experience) since 2003
Please Reply to the Newsgroup

There is a lot of truth in what the OP says.

Business users see the PC as a tool to do work with.

If you drill fails, you get another drill. You don't have to buy a complete
new set of bits, or have the house rewired to make the new drill work.
Neither do you have to redrill all of the holes you've already drilled. That
is because the drill is a self-contained unit with standard I/O interfaces
(110/240vac, handgrip, chuck) the replacement of which do not adversely
impact on other tools or services.

Programmers, OTOH, see 'tight integration' as an objective in PC software
design, building-in numerous interconnections between internal modules. Most
of which are never used, but which tie-down the software in such a way as to
make it non-portable. This makes PC upgrades and backup-recovery an
unnecessarily traumatic process.

Different makes of drill contain very different motor designs, but the user
need not be concerned about this. This is because the drill's external
interfaces are standardised, and no outside connection bypasses those
interfaces.

The job of an OS should be to interface with varying hardware, providing a
standardised interface that applications can make calls to. If it confined
itself to that proper role, then we would not have these problems.

"Rick Merrill" wrote:

Backups are worthless if your computer is stolen/lost because you cannot
just restore the backup to a new computer's disk drive. You have to have
all the !@#$ installation disks to make the registry correct. - true or
false?

There is a lot of truth in what the OP says.

Business users see the PC as a tool to do work with.

If you drill fails, you get another drill. You don't have to buy a complete
new set of bits, or have the house rewired to make the new drill work.
Neither do you have to redrill all of the holes you've already drilled. That
is because the drill is a self-contained unit with standard I/O interfaces
(110/240vac, handgrip, chuck) the replacement of which do not adversely
impact on other tools or services.

Programmers, OTOH, see 'tight integration' as an objective in PC software
design, building-in numerous interconnections between internal modules. Most
of which are never used, but which tie-down the software in such a way as to
make it non-portable. This makes PC upgrades and backup-recovery an
unnecessarily traumatic process.

Different makes of drill contain very different motor designs, but the user
need not be concerned about this. This is because the drill's external
interfaces are standardised, and no outside connection bypasses those
interfaces.

The job of an OS should be to interface with varying hardware, providing a
standardised interface that applications can make calls to. If it confined
itself to that proper role, then we would not have these problems.

"Rick Merrill" wrote:

Backups are worthless if your computer is stolen/lost because you cannot
just restore the backup to a new computer's disk drive. You have to have
all the !@#$ installation disks to make the registry correct. - true or
false?

"Anteaus" wrote in message

There is a lot of truth in what the OP says.

What in the OP's words was it? Since you're made no reference to, now
use of, the OP's query, there is nothing to compare that sentence about.


Business users see the PC as a tool to do work with.

If you drill fails, you get another drill. You don't have to buy a
complete new set of bits, or have the house rewired to make the new
drill work. Neither do you have to redrill all of the holes you've
already drilled. That is because the drill is a self-contained unit
with standard I/O interfaces (110/240vac, handgrip, chuck) the
replacement of which do not adversely impact on other tools or
services.

But drills do not have new parts sent to them periodically, which by
their nature necessitates keeping a record of what was sent, either.
Nor does a drill run another drill, peripheral or machine. A drill only
makes holes or tightens/untightens screws. But a PC does much more,
works with many perhipherals, drives them, starts them, stops them,
prints them, saves them, replies to them, etc etc etc. If you're going
to attempt to use analogies, at least pick something that relates.
Jeez.

Programmers, OTOH, see 'tight integration' as an objective in PC
software design, building-in numerous interconnections between
internal modules.

That is patently untrue. You have absolutely no concept of the
methodology of code developtment and should leave this subject alone.
The preference for interconnections as you call them is by marketing and
users; the ones doing the code (it's often several different people) are
simply following the requirements of a project's descriptions and
specifications.

Most of which are never used, but which tie-down
the software in such a way as to make it non-portable.

That would have nothing to do with portability. Portability of/for
what?? Do you even know what you said there?

This makes PC
upgrades and backup-recovery an unnecessarily traumatic process.

Nonsense. It has become so easy and so common place these days that
even non-ignorant school children can do it and others never even know
it's happening because it's reliable and automated. The most work with
a good backup strategy is put in for making periodic checks to insure
that the backups ran and that no error messages are waiting for action.
These days there are seldom any errors even. All that's needed is RTFM
and a moderate intelligence for the one implementing same. Other than
housekeeping there is nothing i have to do about/with my backup ware;
it's all automated. Once a month I make a set of DVDs for offsite
backup storage and that's all there is to do.

Different makes of drill contain very different motor designs, but

Actually, drill motors are very, very similar these days whether it's a
line or battery operated drill. You only start to see differences when
you move into the more expensive and/or commercial quality drills most
people consider too expensive to bother with. Yet, after buying two of
the cheapies you've spent more than you would have on the commercial
product and it's going to keep on running for a long time yet.

the user need not be concerned about this. This is because the
drill's external interfaces are standardised, and no outside
connection bypasses those interfaces.

Actually, there are mor differences in "interfaces" than there are
innards. Constant speed, variable speed, reversible, clutched,
slip-ringed, 3/8" max or 1/4" max or 1/2" max drill shanks, speeds from
1 to 500 or 1500 or 2500 or 150 to 2500., and several other combinations
amongst the different manufacturer's. That is THE place they can do
something they hope will distinguish their drills from the competition,
so the interfaces DO vary; a lot, from mfr to mfr.

The job of an OS should be to interface with varying hardware,
providing a standardised interface that applications can make calls
to. If it confined itself to that proper role, then we would not have
these problems.

You've chosen a very poor analogy.

"Rick Merrill" wrote:

Backups are worthless if your computer is stolen/lost because you
cannot just restore the backup to a new computer's disk drive.

Sort of true, but FALSE if one has followed the standard strategies for
backing up machines and has copies of backups on an unplugged, stored
out of sight external drive, plus another set periodically stored
off-site. If my computer were stolen or lost today, I would simply pull
my backups out of my firesafe, or go to a relative's with whom I swap
DVD sets of backups periodically, and then restore that to my new
computer. The odds of my own home and my offsite storage location both
being bomed to rubble are extremely low; so low that if that happens I'm
not going to be much worried about my backups! As long as they're
stored offsite I can take my time to put my life back together before
worrying about a restoration.
The most effective part of ANY backup strategy is having a backup
stored offsite, far away from the computer it's for, in addition to
being on say an external disk drive.

You
have to have all the !@#$ installation disks to make the registry
correct. - true or false?

The very worst that could happen would be having to restore to a
different machine, in which case the registry would be no good, that's
right. But there are two possibly easy solutions:
-- Do the restore. Run a Repair Install.
or
-- Do a bare steel restore. Then it doesn't care what the hardware is;
it'll build its own registry.

In both cases, NO, you don't need the install disks, but you MIGHT need
the keycodes. And your EFS exports if you encrypt. And, in the case of
a pirated OS, here's where you get caughtg. Or some do anyway, not
necessarily "you" in the singular sense.

Let's keep it real, folks. Do the research, then do the work. Then
relax, knowing you're set for at least 99% of the problems you could
encounter. Such as forgetting to verify the data set you stored off
lineg. BTW, copies of your original discs should be part of a good
backup strategy, too.

HTH,

Twayne`

"Anteaus" wrote in message

There is a lot of truth in what the OP says.

What in the OP's words was it? Since you're made no reference to, now
use of, the OP's query, there is nothing to compare that sentence about.


Business users see the PC as a tool to do work with.

If you drill fails, you get another drill. You don't have to buy a
complete new set of bits, or have the house rewired to make the new
drill work. Neither do you have to redrill all of the holes you've
already drilled. That is because the drill is a self-contained unit
with standard I/O interfaces (110/240vac, handgrip, chuck) the
replacement of which do not adversely impact on other tools or
services.

But drills do not have new parts sent to them periodically, which by
their nature necessitates keeping a record of what was sent, either.
Nor does a drill run another drill, peripheral or machine. A drill only
makes holes or tightens/untightens screws. But a PC does much more,
works with many perhipherals, drives them, starts them, stops them,
prints them, saves them, replies to them, etc etc etc. If you're going
to attempt to use analogies, at least pick something that relates.
Jeez.

Programmers, OTOH, see 'tight integration' as an objective in PC
software design, building-in numerous interconnections between
internal modules.

That is patently untrue. You have absolutely no concept of the
methodology of code developtment and should leave this subject alone.
The preference for interconnections as you call them is by marketing and
users; the ones doing the code (it's often several different people) are
simply following the requirements of a project's descriptions and
specifications.

Most of which are never used, but which tie-down
the software in such a way as to make it non-portable.

That would have nothing to do with portability. Portability of/for
what?? Do you even know what you said there?

This makes PC
upgrades and backup-recovery an unnecessarily traumatic process.

Nonsense. It has become so easy and so common place these days that
even non-ignorant school children can do it and others never even know
it's happening because it's reliable and automated. The most work with
a good backup strategy is put in for making periodic checks to insure
that the backups ran and that no error messages are waiting for action.
These days there are seldom any errors even. All that's needed is RTFM
and a moderate intelligence for the one implementing same. Other than
housekeeping there is nothing i have to do about/with my backup ware;
it's all automated. Once a month I make a set of DVDs for offsite
backup storage and that's all there is to do.

Different makes of drill contain very different motor designs, but

Actually, drill motors are very, very similar these days whether it's a
line or battery operated drill. You only start to see differences when
you move into the more expensive and/or commercial quality drills most
people consider too expensive to bother with. Yet, after buying two of
the cheapies you've spent more than you would have on the commercial
product and it's going to keep on running for a long time yet.

the user need not be concerned about this. This is because the
drill's external interfaces are standardised, and no outside
connection bypasses those interfaces.

Actually, there are mor differences in "interfaces" than there are
innards. Constant speed, variable speed, reversible, clutched,
slip-ringed, 3/8" max or 1/4" max or 1/2" max drill shanks, speeds from
1 to 500 or 1500 or 2500 or 150 to 2500., and several other combinations
amongst the different manufacturer's. That is THE place they can do
something they hope will distinguish their drills from the competition,
so the interfaces DO vary; a lot, from mfr to mfr.

The job of an OS should be to interface with varying hardware,
providing a standardised interface that applications can make calls
to. If it confined itself to that proper role, then we would not have
these problems.

You've chosen a very poor analogy.

"Rick Merrill" wrote:

Backups are worthless if your computer is stolen/lost because you
cannot just restore the backup to a new computer's disk drive.

Sort of true, but FALSE if one has followed the standard strategies for
backing up machines and has copies of backups on an unplugged, stored
out of sight external drive, plus another set periodically stored
off-site. If my computer were stolen or lost today, I would simply pull
my backups out of my firesafe, or go to a relative's with whom I swap
DVD sets of backups periodically, and then restore that to my new
computer. The odds of my own home and my offsite storage location both
being bomed to rubble are extremely low; so low that if that happens I'm
not going to be much worried about my backups! As long as they're
stored offsite I can take my time to put my life back together before
worrying about a restoration.
The most effective part of ANY backup strategy is having a backup
stored offsite, far away from the computer it's for, in addition to
being on say an external disk drive.

You
have to have all the !@#$ installation disks to make the registry
correct. - true or false?

The very worst that could happen would be having to restore to a
different machine, in which case the registry would be no good, that's
right. But there are two possibly easy solutions:
-- Do the restore. Run a Repair Install.
or
-- Do a bare steel restore. Then it doesn't care what the hardware is;
it'll build its own registry.

In both cases, NO, you don't need the install disks, but you MIGHT need
the keycodes. And your EFS exports if you encrypt. And, in the case of
a pirated OS, here's where you get caughtg. Or some do anyway, not
necessarily "you" in the singular sense.

Let's keep it real, folks. Do the research, then do the work. Then
relax, knowing you're set for at least 99% of the problems you could
encounter. Such as forgetting to verify the data set you stored off
lineg. BTW, copies of your original discs should be part of a good
backup strategy, too.

HTH,

Twayne`

Twayne wrote:
"Anteaus" wrote in message

There is a lot of truth in what the OP says.

What in the OP's words was it? Since you're made no reference to, now
use of, the OP's query, there is nothing to compare that sentence about.

Business users see the PC as a tool to do work with.

If you drill fails, you get another drill. You don't have to buy a
complete new set of bits, or have the house rewired to make the new
drill work. Neither do you have to redrill all of the holes you've
already drilled. That is because the drill is a self-contained unit
with standard I/O interfaces (110/240vac, handgrip, chuck) the
replacement of which do not adversely impact on other tools or
services.

But drills do not have new parts sent to them periodically, which by
their nature necessitates keeping a record of what was sent, either.
Nor does a drill run another drill, peripheral or machine. A drill only
makes holes or tightens/untightens screws. But a PC does much more,
works with many perhipherals, drives them, starts them, stops them,
prints them, saves them, replies to them, etc etc etc. If you're going
to attempt to use analogies, at least pick something that relates.
Jeez.
Programmers, OTOH, see 'tight integration' as an objective in PC
software design, building-in numerous interconnections between
internal modules.

That is patently untrue. You have absolutely no concept of the
methodology of code developtment and should leave this subject alone.
The preference for interconnections as you call them is by marketing and
users; the ones doing the code (it's often several different people) are
simply following the requirements of a project's descriptions and
specifications.

Most of which are never used, but which tie-down
the software in such a way as to make it non-portable.

That would have nothing to do with portability. Portability of/for
what?? Do you even know what you said there?

This makes PC
upgrades and backup-recovery an unnecessarily traumatic process.

Nonsense. It has become so easy and so common place these days that
even non-ignorant school children can do it and others never even know
it's happening because it's reliable and automated. The most work with
a good backup strategy is put in for making periodic checks to insure
that the backups ran and that no error messages are waiting for action.
These days there are seldom any errors even. All that's needed is RTFM
and a moderate intelligence for the one implementing same. Other than
housekeeping there is nothing i have to do about/with my backup ware;
it's all automated. Once a month I make a set of DVDs for offsite
backup storage and that's all there is to do.
Different makes of drill contain very different motor designs, but

Actually, drill motors are very, very similar these days whether it's a
line or battery operated drill. You only start to see differences when
you move into the more expensive and/or commercial quality drills most
people consider too expensive to bother with. Yet, after buying two of
the cheapies you've spent more than you would have on the commercial
product and it's going to keep on running for a long time yet.

the user need not be concerned about this. This is because the
drill's external interfaces are standardised, and no outside
connection bypasses those interfaces.

Actually, there are mor differences in "interfaces" than there are
innards. Constant speed, variable speed, reversible, clutched,
slip-ringed, 3/8" max or 1/4" max or 1/2" max drill shanks, speeds from
1 to 500 or 1500 or 2500 or 150 to 2500., and several other combinations
amongst the different manufacturer's. That is THE place they can do
something they hope will distinguish their drills from the competition,
so the interfaces DO vary; a lot, from mfr to mfr.
The job of an OS should be to interface with varying hardware,
providing a standardised interface that applications can make calls
to. If it confined itself to that proper role, then we would not have
these problems.

You've chosen a very poor analogy.
"Rick Merrill" wrote:

Backups are worthless if your computer is stolen/lost because you
cannot just restore the backup to a new computer's disk drive.

Sort of true, but FALSE if one has followed the standard strategies for
backing up machines and has copies of backups on an unplugged, stored
out of sight external drive, plus another set periodically stored
off-site. If my computer were stolen or lost today, I would simply pull
my backups out of my firesafe, or go to a relative's with whom I swap
DVD sets of backups periodically, and then restore that to my new
computer. The odds of my own home and my offsite storage location both
being bomed to rubble are extremely low; so low that if that happens I'm
not going to be much worried about my backups! As long as they're
stored offsite I can take my time to put my life back together before
worrying about a restoration.
The most effective part of ANY backup strategy is having a backup
stored offsite, far away from the computer it's for, in addition to
being on say an external disk drive.

You
have to have all the !@#$ installation disks to make the registry
correct. - true or false?

The very worst that could happen would be having to restore to a
different machine, in which case the registry would be no good, that's
right. But there are two possibly easy solutions:
-- Do the restore. Run a Repair Install.
or
-- Do a bare steel restore. Then it doesn't care what the hardware is;
it'll build its own registry.

In both cases, NO, you don't need the install disks, but you MIGHT need
the keycodes. And your EFS exports if you encrypt. And, in the case of
a pirated OS, here's where you get caughtg. Or some do anyway, not
necessarily "you" in the singular sense.

Let's keep it real, folks. Do the research, then do the work. Then
relax, knowing you're set for at least 99% of the problems you could
encounter. Such as forgetting to verify the data set you stored off
lineg. BTW, copies of your original discs should be part of a good
backup strategy, too.

HTH,

Twayne`

I had a case where a "verified" backup failed to restore all the files:
the failed restore files followed a (almost) fibonachi series! It
turned out that (1) a "verified" backup did not compare the media data,
only the bus data, and (2) the MFG used the wrong chip on the tape drive
with the result that a restore had a synchronization bug that would
screw up the data!

With a mainframe you could just restore the whole thing on a new unit.
With a PC you have to have exactly the same BIOS in many cases.

Almost nobody saves all the downloaded software AND the updates!!

MIGRATION is a major goal - even for you - eventually!!

I score the debate so far Anteaus:7 Twayne:5

This is why the could computing model will eventually dominate

Twayne wrote:
"Anteaus" wrote in message

There is a lot of truth in what the OP says.

What in the OP's words was it? Since you're made no reference to, now
use of, the OP's query, there is nothing to compare that sentence about.

Business users see the PC as a tool to do work with.

If you drill fails, you get another drill. You don't have to buy a
complete new set of bits, or have the house rewired to make the new
drill work. Neither do you have to redrill all of the holes you've
already drilled. That is because the drill is a self-contained unit
with standard I/O interfaces (110/240vac, handgrip, chuck) the
replacement of which do not adversely impact on other tools or
services.

But drills do not have new parts sent to them periodically, which by
their nature necessitates keeping a record of what was sent, either.
Nor does a drill run another drill, peripheral or machine. A drill only
makes holes or tightens/untightens screws. But a PC does much more,
works with many perhipherals, drives them, starts them, stops them,
prints them, saves them, replies to them, etc etc etc. If you're going
to attempt to use analogies, at least pick something that relates.
Jeez.
Programmers, OTOH, see 'tight integration' as an objective in PC
software design, building-in numerous interconnections between
internal modules.

That is patently untrue. You have absolutely no concept of the
methodology of code developtment and should leave this subject alone.
The preference for interconnections as you call them is by marketing and
users; the ones doing the code (it's often several different people) are
simply following the requirements of a project's descriptions and
specifications.

Most of which are never used, but which tie-down
the software in such a way as to make it non-portable.

That would have nothing to do with portability. Portability of/for
what?? Do you even know what you said there?

This makes PC
upgrades and backup-recovery an unnecessarily traumatic process.

Nonsense. It has become so easy and so common place these days that
even non-ignorant school children can do it and others never even know
it's happening because it's reliable and automated. The most work with
a good backup strategy is put in for making periodic checks to insure
that the backups ran and that no error messages are waiting for action.
These days there are seldom any errors even. All that's needed is RTFM
and a moderate intelligence for the one implementing same. Other than
housekeeping there is nothing i have to do about/with my backup ware;
it's all automated. Once a month I make a set of DVDs for offsite
backup storage and that's all there is to do.
Different makes of drill contain very different motor designs, but

Actually, drill motors are very, very similar these days whether it's a
line or battery operated drill. You only start to see differences when
you move into the more expensive and/or commercial quality drills most
people consider too expensive to bother with. Yet, after buying two of
the cheapies you've spent more than you would have on the commercial
product and it's going to keep on running for a long time yet.

the user need not be concerned about this. This is because the
drill's external interfaces are standardised, and no outside
connection bypasses those interfaces.

Actually, there are mor differences in "interfaces" than there are
innards. Constant speed, variable speed, reversible, clutched,
slip-ringed, 3/8" max or 1/4" max or 1/2" max drill shanks, speeds from
1 to 500 or 1500 or 2500 or 150 to 2500., and several other combinations
amongst the different manufacturer's. That is THE place they can do
something they hope will distinguish their drills from the competition,
so the interfaces DO vary; a lot, from mfr to mfr.
The job of an OS should be to interface with varying hardware,
providing a standardised interface that applications can make calls
to. If it confined itself to that proper role, then we would not have
these problems.

You've chosen a very poor analogy.
"Rick Merrill" wrote:

Backups are worthless if your computer is stolen/lost because you
cannot just restore the backup to a new computer's disk drive.

Sort of true, but FALSE if one has followed the standard strategies for
backing up machines and has copies of backups on an unplugged, stored
out of sight external drive, plus another set periodically stored
off-site. If my computer were stolen or lost today, I would simply pull
my backups out of my firesafe, or go to a relative's with whom I swap
DVD sets of backups periodically, and then restore that to my new
computer. The odds of my own home and my offsite storage location both
being bomed to rubble are extremely low; so low that if that happens I'm
not going to be much worried about my backups! As long as they're
stored offsite I can take my time to put my life back together before
worrying about a restoration.
The most effective part of ANY backup strategy is having a backup
stored offsite, far away from the computer it's for, in addition to
being on say an external disk drive.

You
have to have all the !@#$ installation disks to make the registry
correct. - true or false?

The very worst that could happen would be having to restore to a
different machine, in which case the registry would be no good, that's
right. But there are two possibly easy solutions:
-- Do the restore. Run a Repair Install.
or
-- Do a bare steel restore. Then it doesn't care what the hardware is;
it'll build its own registry.

In both cases, NO, you don't need the install disks, but you MIGHT need
the keycodes. And your EFS exports if you encrypt. And, in the case of
a pirated OS, here's where you get caughtg. Or some do anyway, not
necessarily "you" in the singular sense.

Let's keep it real, folks. Do the research, then do the work. Then
relax, knowing you're set for at least 99% of the problems you could
encounter. Such as forgetting to verify the data set you stored off
lineg. BTW, copies of your original discs should be part of a good
backup strategy, too.

HTH,

Twayne`

I had a case where a "verified" backup failed to restore all the files:
the failed restore files followed a (almost) fibonachi series! It
turned out that (1) a "verified" backup did not compare the media data,
only the bus data, and (2) the MFG used the wrong chip on the tape drive
with the result that a restore had a synchronization bug that would
screw up the data!

With a mainframe you could just restore the whole thing on a new unit.
With a PC you have to have exactly the same BIOS in many cases.

Almost nobody saves all the downloaded software AND the updates!!

MIGRATION is a major goal - even for you - eventually!!

I score the debate so far Anteaus:7 Twayne:5

This is why the could computing model will eventually dominate

In article ,
says...

Leythos wrote:
In article ,
says...
Backups are worthless if your computer is stolen/lost because you cannot
just restore the backup to a new computer's disk drive. You have to have
all the !@#$ installation disks to make the registry correct. - true or
false?

False, backups are not actually for the OS, unless you have the same
computer, they are for all of the DATA you have on the computer - like
your Itunes, Documents, Pictures, and all the other things you have.

With all the downloaded programs and "updates" a data only solution is
not very interesting nor useful for migrating.

There is a new solution that obsolesces what we used to know. Here's
what I have found: a full system backup including OS can be "run" on a
virtual OS (or even on a separate bootable drive) under another
operating system on another computer. e.g. WinXP under Win7.

Backup are not for Migrations, even if you use them that way. Backups
are for data retention in case of a failure somewhere.

I could use Ghost and image my machines too, but how many people have
the ability to Use a MS VM since most all of them need USB devices and
MS VM doesn't support USB devices?

--
You can't trust your best friends, your five senses, only the little
voice inside you that most civilians don't even hear -- Listen to that.
Trust yourself.
(remove 999 for proper email address)

In article ,
says...

Leythos wrote:
In article ,
says...
Backups are worthless if your computer is stolen/lost because you cannot
just restore the backup to a new computer's disk drive. You have to have
all the !@#$ installation disks to make the registry correct. - true or
false?

False, backups are not actually for the OS, unless you have the same
computer, they are for all of the DATA you have on the computer - like
your Itunes, Documents, Pictures, and all the other things you have.

With all the downloaded programs and "updates" a data only solution is
not very interesting nor useful for migrating.

There is a new solution that obsolesces what we used to know. Here's
what I have found: a full system backup including OS can be "run" on a
virtual OS (or even on a separate bootable drive) under another
operating system on another computer. e.g. WinXP under Win7.

Backup are not for Migrations, even if you use them that way. Backups
are for data retention in case of a failure somewhere.

I could use Ghost and image my machines too, but how many people have
the ability to Use a MS VM since most all of them need USB devices and
MS VM doesn't support USB devices?

--
You can't trust your best friends, your five senses, only the little
voice inside you that most civilians don't even hear -- Listen to that.
Trust yourself.
(remove 999 for proper email address)

Leythos wrote:
In article ,
says...
Leythos wrote:
In article ,
says...
Backups are worthless if your computer is stolen/lost because you cannot
just restore the backup to a new computer's disk drive. You have to have
all the !@#$ installation disks to make the registry correct. - true or
false?
False, backups are not actually for the OS, unless you have the same
computer, they are for all of the DATA you have on the computer - like
your Itunes, Documents, Pictures, and all the other things you have.
With all the downloaded programs and "updates" a data only solution is
not very interesting nor useful for migrating.

There is a new solution that obsolesces what we used to know. Here's
what I have found: a full system backup including OS can be "run" on a
virtual OS (or even on a separate bootable drive) under another
operating system on another computer. e.g. WinXP under Win7.

Backup are not for Migrations, even if you use them that way. Backups
are for data retention in case of a failure somewhere.

I could use Ghost and image my machines too, but how many people have
the ability to Use a MS VM since most all of them need USB devices and
MS VM doesn't support USB devices?

Oh !@#$! How about RDP or some other sort of device redirection tool?

Leythos wrote:
In article ,
says...
Leythos wrote:
In article ,
says...
Backups are worthless if your computer is stolen/lost because you cannot
just restore the backup to a new computer's disk drive. You have to have
all the !@#$ installation disks to make the registry correct. - true or
false?
False, backups are not actually for the OS, unless you have the same
computer, they are for all of the DATA you have on the computer - like
your Itunes, Documents, Pictures, and all the other things you have.
With all the downloaded programs and "updates" a data only solution is
not very interesting nor useful for migrating.

There is a new solution that obsolesces what we used to know. Here's
what I have found: a full system backup including OS can be "run" on a
virtual OS (or even on a separate bootable drive) under another
operating system on another computer. e.g. WinXP under Win7.

Backup are not for Migrations, even if you use them that way. Backups
are for data retention in case of a failure somewhere.

I could use Ghost and image my machines too, but how many people have
the ability to Use a MS VM since most all of them need USB devices and
MS VM doesn't support USB devices?

Oh !@#$! How about RDP or some other sort of device redirection tool?