Windows 8 activation question

Maybe there's an expert out there who can answer a question for me,
nothing desperately important but it's been puzzling me.

I recently bought a new laptop. I've always built my own desktop PCs
and installed whatever I wanted, but as that isn't a feasible option
with laptops I realised while I was still looking for one that it
would almost certainly have Windows 8 already installed unless I was
prepared to narrow my choice of laptops, which I wasn't. I wanted a
laptop of my choice, with the operating system of my choice, and I
wanted it to have a solid state drive. I expect to be using it for
some years, so I don't want to compromise. Accordingly, I had obtained
a copy of Windows 7 in the expectation of needing to use it, and also
ordered the SSD.

The laptop arrived about a week before the SSD was expected, so I
thought that as its hard drive was doomed anyway I had nothing to lose
by tinkering about with the dreaded Lego screen to see if I could
somehow learn to live with it. During that time I discovered a program
called Classic Shell, which makes the system almost tolerable, so I
decided to give it a stay of execution, and when the SSD did arrive I
decided to install Windows 8 at first and struggle with it a little
longer. (I still have that copy of Windows 7 earmarked for this laptop
if I change my mind).

Now here's the curious thing. I swapped the hard drive for a brand new
blank SSD, the only storage drive in the machine, and made a
completely fresh installation from a standard Windows 8 system disk
which had been obtained separately, i.e. not supplied with the laptop,
then tried to find how to activate it, but discovered it was activated
already! Not only that, but checking the licence code with Keyfinder
showed that the stored code was the same one that had been stored with
the factory installation on the hard drive I had removed. So my
question is, where is the activation information stored? In all my
previous experience a fresh installation on a new drive is effectively
a completely new machine reborn with no "memory" of its previous life,
and needs to be activated again. The new activation can either be done
with the same number if it's just a drive replacement with everything
else the same, or with a new number for a new operating system. I've
done both with no complications before.

So what's going on here? I disabled Secure Boot in the bios before
installing, so it seems unlikely the motherboard is storing the
activation info, but if it's stored somewhere in the operating system
on the drive as before, then where has the new installation on the
absolutely brand spanking new drive got it from? I checked most
carefully that I had the code handy beforehand, because I've installed
Windows many times before, so I remember clearly that on this
occasion, unlike every previous occasion, I didn't need to enter it.

So far so good, but another question rears its head. If I decide to
stick with Windows 8 then however it's been activated, it's activated
so I can use it, but if it's true that the new type of bios (UEFI)
really is where the activation code is now stored, will I run into a
problem if I decide to wipe the SSD and install Windows 7 as
originally planned? If the code for Windows 8 is stored somewhere
other than the installed system on the drive, would I be able to enter
the Windows 7 code in the usual way? If only Windows installed
complete and ready to use in 15 minutes like Linux I'd just try it and
see, but it takes hours. Any relevant advice would be welcome.

Rod.

Roderick Stewart wrote:
Now here's the curious thing. I swapped the hard drive for a brand new
blank SSD, the only storage drive in the machine, and made a
completely fresh installation from a standard Windows 8 system disk
which had been obtained separately, i.e. not supplied with the laptop,
then tried to find how to activate it, but discovered it was activated
already! Not only that, but checking the licence code with Keyfinder
showed that the stored code was the same one that had been stored with
the factory installation on the hard drive I had removed. So my
question is, where is the activation information stored?

Does the Win8 DVD you obtained happen to be an OEM version from the same
manufacturer as the laptop you bought?

On Sat, 01 Mar 2014 10:15:16 -0500, Wolf K
wrote:

On 2014-03-01 8:53 AM, Roderick Stewart wrote:
A[...]
Now here's the curious thing. I swapped the hard drive for a brand new
blank SSD, the only storage drive in the machine, and made a
completely fresh installation from a standard Windows 8 system disk
which had been obtained separately, i.e. not supplied with the laptop,
then tried to find how to activate it, but discovered it was activated
already! Not only that, but checking the licence code with Keyfinder
showed that the stored code was the same one that had been stored with
the factory installation on the hard drive I had removed. So my
question is, where is the activation information stored?
[...]

The activation key is tied to the motherboard. As to where it's stored,
I wish I knew for sure. Since switching system drives doesn't affect the
key, I suspect it's stored in BIOS ROM. If you had installed that fresh
copy of Win8 on a brand-new, unkeyed machine, then the key supplied with
it would have become the key for that machine+OS combination.

Also, MS knows whether the key is OEM or retail, and IIRC on activation
the key and the mobo ID are sent to MS. In any case, if you change the
mobo on a desktop, you have to jump through several hoops to get the key
transferred.

Yes, sometimes I've changed a few things and had to do the activation
using the typing lots of digits into the PC then the telephone keypad
method, but I've never had one refused.

I can only think of two possible ways the new installation could have
got the old key, because it certainly didn't get it from me-

1. It's stored somewhere on the motherboard itself, in which case I'd
really like to know if a fresh install of a different system will be
able to replace the stored code with its own. I hope so, because it
would be outrageous if the first OS installed on a motherboard could
effectively block all others by preventing a new code. Whose laptop is
it, for goodness' sake?

2. It got the code from Microsoft in response to an automatic
activation initiated by my laptop during installation. They'll have
had it on file of course from the first activation of the install on
the hard disk drive, and could have recognised my laptop from its
motherboard and OS details, then sent the code automatically to the
new installation on the SSD.

Both of these scenarios would seem to be technically possible but I've
installed, re-installed and upgraded lots of computers and never
encountered either of them before. After a replacement drive I've
always had to type the code in again manually, even if it's the same
one as before, and I've never had a new installation try to activate
itself immediately without prompting me first. (I think W7 activates
automatically after a few days, but I've never waited that long).

Maybe one of the above is just some unannounced new "feature" of
Windows 8, in which case I wonder how many other surprises it has for
me, and which one is eventually going to annoy me enough to make me
decide it's had all the chances it deserves?

BTW, if you do want to install Win7, I advise you to read MS's articles
on how to "downgrade" to Win7. Since you have a fresh retail copy of
Win7, there shouldn't be a problem, but life is full of surprises. :-)

I have no intention of ever changing an OS by upgrading, downgrading,
migrating or drive cloning if I can possibly avoid it. My preferred
method is always to repartition and do a clean install from a DVD.
It's amazing how much accumulated crapware you can avoid just by doing
that. The upgrade from 8 to 8.1 took several hours, and required the
laptop to be connected to the internet while it downloaded about 3.5GB
of data, with no possibility of saving it on a disk for future use.

My fresh copy of W7 is actually OEM but with an individual code
sticker, though I've always changed the installed code to the sticker
code and activated with that, and had no problems.

Rod.

Roderick Stewart wrote:


Now here's the curious thing. I swapped the hard drive for a brand new
blank SSD, the only storage drive in the machine, and made a
completely fresh installation from a standard Windows 8 system disk
which had been obtained separately, i.e. not supplied with the laptop,
then tried to find how to activate it, but discovered it was activated
already!
Rod.


What was the source of the Windows 8 'system disk'

Windows 8 is available only in full version software
- Retail (32 or 64 bit DVD or download from MSFT Store) and System
Builder/OEM (32 bit *or* 64 bit DVD)

Which version did you 'separately' obtain and where ?

Where the information is stored probably won't be of any value.
- Call MSFT (activation phone number is available when failing
activation)....and speak to a representative...ensure you provide
accurate information.

--
....winston
msft mvp consumer apps

On Sun, 02 Mar 2014 02:17:29 -0700, "...winston?"
wrote:

Roderick Stewart wrote:


Now here's the curious thing. I swapped the hard drive for a brand new
blank SSD, the only storage drive in the machine, and made a
completely fresh installation from a standard Windows 8 system disk
which had been obtained separately, i.e. not supplied with the laptop,
then tried to find how to activate it, but discovered it was activated
already!
Rod.


What was the source of the Windows 8 'system disk'

A completely separate source from the supplier of the laptop, so it is
inconceivable that the activation code could have been stored on it
and by some cosmic coincidence just happened to be the same as the one
that the laptop suppliers used when they installed W8 on the hard
drive in the factory.

Where the information is stored probably won't be of any value.
- Call MSFT (activation phone number is available when failing
activation)....and speak to a representative...ensure you provide
accurate information.

This isn't exactly a case of activation failing, more a case of it
unexpectedly succeeding, without my even asking it to try, leaving me
puzzled as to how it was achieved. As things stand, I have a fully
activated installation of Windows 8 on a solid state drive in my new
laptop and it's all working. My only concern is that one of the
possible scenarios (code stored on motherboard) might just possibly
thwart an attempt to replace Windows 8 with Windows 7, should I decide
to do this. I guess I'll just have to try it.

Rod.

On 3/2/2014 1:28 PM, Roderick Stewart wrote:
This isn't exactly a case of activation failing, more a case of it
unexpectedly succeeding, without my even asking it to try, leaving me
puzzled as to how it was achieved. As things stand, I have a fully
activated installation of Windows 8 on a solid state drive in my new
laptop and it's all working. My only concern is that one of the
possible scenarios (code stored on motherboard) might just possibly
thwart an attempt to replace Windows 8 with Windows 7, should I decide
to do this. I guess I'll just have to try it.

Yes, if you have an Internet connection, Windows 8 will automatically
activate. I installed Windows 8 on three machines and the only way to
stop it is to be offline. But you will get nags repeatedly telling you
that you need to activate.

--
Bill
Gateway M465e ('06 era) - Thunderbird v24.3.0
Centrino Core2 Duo T7400 2.16 GHz - 4GB - Windows 7 Home SP1

Roderick Stewart wrote:
On Sun, 02 Mar 2014 02:17:29 -0700, "...winston?"
wrote:

Roderick Stewart wrote:


Now here's the curious thing. I swapped the hard drive for a brand new
blank SSD, the only storage drive in the machine, and made a
completely fresh installation from a standard Windows 8 system disk
which had been obtained separately, i.e. not supplied with the laptop,
then tried to find how to activate it, but discovered it was activated
already!
Rod.


What was the source of the Windows 8 'system disk'

A completely separate source from the supplier of the laptop, so it is
inconceivable that the activation code could have been stored on it
and by some cosmic coincidence just happened to be the same as the one
that the laptop suppliers used when they installed W8 on the hard
drive in the factory.

Where the information is stored probably won't be of any value.
- Call MSFT (activation phone number is available when failing
activation)....and speak to a representative...ensure you provide
accurate information.

This isn't exactly a case of activation failing, more a case of it
unexpectedly succeeding, without my even asking it to try, leaving me
puzzled as to how it was achieved. As things stand, I have a fully
activated installation of Windows 8 on a solid state drive in my new
laptop and it's all working. My only concern is that one of the
possible scenarios (code stored on motherboard) might just possibly
thwart an attempt to replace Windows 8 with Windows 7, should I decide
to do this. I guess I'll just have to try it.

Rod.


And the answer to the questions was?

Only Windows 8 Pro OEM pre-installed version qualifies for downgrade rights.

I've yet to see any Win8 machine that couldn't wipe or replace the drive
and install Windows 7 (provided one has the necessary drivers for
Win7...the newer the machine, the less likely Windows 7 RTM, SP1 or
later compatibility updates contain all the necessary hardware drivers).

--
....winston
msft mvp consumer apps

On Mon, 03 Mar 2014 13:41:25 -0700, "...winston?"
wrote:

And the answer to the questions was?

Only Windows 8 Pro OEM pre-installed version qualifies for downgrade rights.

I've yet to see any Win8 machine that couldn't wipe or replace the drive
and install Windows 7 (provided one has the necessary drivers for
Win7...the newer the machine, the less likely Windows 7 RTM, SP1 or
later compatibility updates contain all the necessary hardware drivers).

Windows 8 turns out to be not too bad with a proper start menu instead
of those ridiculous tiles, so I might end up staying with it after
all. If I do decide to replace it with Windows 7 (or anything else) it
won't be a downgrade but a clean install; always the best way.

Rod.